Those of you blaming this transfer epidemic on a kid's parents...

[DowntownDawg]

....and delusions of grandeur need to wake up. Look, I rank myself just below Costanza in the line of Stansbury apologists on this board. I have been very vocal in support of him. I am not constantly bitching like Peaches or Fishwater, and I believe that his coaching on the floor has gotten pretty damn good.

That said, the last three transfers have all been players were gritty, that hustled, played defense, went after loose balls, etc. And there is a definite pattern here:

1) Gritty starter transfers.
2) Coaches unofficially put out a story that they made unreasonable demands (minutes, playing a different position), and the coaches had no choice
3) The posts start flying: Screw you, Ben. We don't need you anyway. We won't miss him, etc.
4) The team underachieves because we are rebuilding every year.
5) Another player transfers.

It's time to wake up and stop blaming overzealous parents and delusional kids, and blame the common denominator. We will definitely miss Ben. It's very debatable whether or not we even make the tournament without him. He hustled. He could shoot free throws, and he was just a sophomore and was becoming an outside threat. Like dawgstudent said, we will never get to the next level with his happening every year.

And what bothers me the most about it is that the players that transfer out now are not the prima donnas or thugs. It's the guys that seem to be soft spoken, play hard defense, and hustle. The guys that we have to have to win games. And then the coaches put the story out that makes these kids out to be unreasonable and demanding and not willing to accept compromise. I don't buy it. I guess Backer's little theory about the Delks being mean to Ben being the source of Ben's transfer rumors last year has been blown away. Don't buy this ****. EVERY coach deals with overzealous and crazy parents. Every coach deals with kids that want more minutes or want to play a different position. The difference is, our coach can't handle it. And we'll never see the next level until he can. And it's been 10 years now. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....and delusions of grandeur need to wake up. Look, I rank myself just below Costanza in the line of Stansbury apologists on this board. I have been very vocal in support of him. I am not constantly bitching like Peaches or Fishwater, and I believe that his coaching on the floor has gotten pretty damn good.

That said, the last three transfers have all been players were gritty, that hustled, played defense, went after loose balls, etc. And there is a definite pattern here:

1) Gritty starter transfers.
2) Coaches unofficially put out a story that they made unreasonable demands (minutes, playing a different position), and the coaches had no choice
3) The posts start flying: Screw you, Ben. We don't need you anyway. We won't miss him, etc.
4) The team underachieves because we are rebuilding every year.
5) Another player transfers.

It's time to wake up and stop blaming overzealous parents and delusional kids, and blame the common denominator. We will definitely miss Ben. It's very debatable whether or not we even make the tournament without him. He hustled. He could shoot free throws, and he was just a sophomore and was becoming an outside threat. Like dawgstudent said, we will never get to the next level with his happening every year.

And what bothers me the most about it is that the players that transfer out now are not the prima donnas or thugs. It's the guys that seem to be soft spoken, play hard defense, and hustle. The guys that we have to have to win games. And then the coaches put the story out that makes these kids out to be unreasonable and demanding and not willing to accept compromise. I don't buy it. I guess Backer's little theory about the Delks being mean to Ben being the source of Ben's transfer rumors last year has been blown away. Don't buy this ****. EVERY coach deals with overzealous and crazy parents. Every coach deals with kids that want more minutes or want to play a different position. The difference is, our coach can't handle it. And we'll never see the next level until he can. And it's been 10 years now. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....and delusions of grandeur need to wake up. Look, I rank myself just below Costanza in the line of Stansbury apologists on this board. I have been very vocal in support of him. I am not constantly bitching like Peaches or Fishwater, and I believe that his coaching on the floor has gotten pretty damn good.

That said, the last three transfers have all been players were gritty, that hustled, played defense, went after loose balls, etc. And there is a definite pattern here:

1) Gritty starter transfers.
2) Coaches unofficially put out a story that they made unreasonable demands (minutes, playing a different position), and the coaches had no choice
3) The posts start flying: Screw you, Ben. We don't need you anyway. We won't miss him, etc.
4) The team underachieves because we are rebuilding every year.
5) Another player transfers.

It's time to wake up and stop blaming overzealous parents and delusional kids, and blame the common denominator. We will definitely miss Ben. It's very debatable whether or not we even make the tournament without him. He hustled. He could shoot free throws, and he was just a sophomore and was becoming an outside threat. Like dawgstudent said, we will never get to the next level with his happening every year.

And what bothers me the most about it is that the players that transfer out now are not the prima donnas or thugs. It's the guys that seem to be soft spoken, play hard defense, and hustle. The guys that we have to have to win games. And then the coaches put the story out that makes these kids out to be unreasonable and demanding and not willing to accept compromise. I don't buy it. I guess Backer's little theory about the Delks being mean to Ben being the source of Ben's transfer rumors last year has been blown away. Don't buy this ****. EVERY coach deals with overzealous and crazy parents. Every coach deals with kids that want more minutes or want to play a different position. The difference is, our coach can't handle it. And we'll never see the next level until he can. And it's been 10 years now. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....and delusions of grandeur need to wake up. Look, I rank myself just below Costanza in the line of Stansbury apologists on this board. I have been very vocal in support of him. I am not constantly bitching like Peaches or Fishwater, and I believe that his coaching on the floor has gotten pretty damn good.

That said, the last three transfers have all been players were gritty, that hustled, played defense, went after loose balls, etc. And there is a definite pattern here:

1) Gritty starter transfers.
2) Coaches unofficially put out a story that they made unreasonable demands (minutes, playing a different position), and the coaches had no choice
3) The posts start flying: Screw you, Ben. We don't need you anyway. We won't miss him, etc.
4) The team underachieves because we are rebuilding every year.
5) Another player transfers.

It's time to wake up and stop blaming overzealous parents and delusional kids, and blame the common denominator. We will definitely miss Ben. It's very debatable whether or not we even make the tournament without him. He hustled. He could shoot free throws, and he was just a sophomore and was becoming an outside threat. Like dawgstudent said, we will never get to the next level with his happening every year.

And what bothers me the most about it is that the players that transfer out now are not the prima donnas or thugs. It's the guys that seem to be soft spoken, play hard defense, and hustle. The guys that we have to have to win games. And then the coaches put the story out that makes these kids out to be unreasonable and demanding and not willing to accept compromise. I don't buy it. I guess Backer's little theory about the Delks being mean to Ben being the source of Ben's transfer rumors last year has been blown away. Don't buy this ****. EVERY coach deals with overzealous and crazy parents. Every coach deals with kids that want more minutes or want to play a different position. The difference is, our coach can't handle it. And we'll never see the next level until he can. And it's been 10 years now. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[fishwater99]

Great post...

Stans recuits the J-money's and let's them run his bball team.
That is the problem, Stans can not tell them NO.
He let's Jamont make all the on court decions.
Stans has no control over his star players on or off the court.

As you all remember Porn-star Rhodes was going to transfer...
R. Jackson did transfer.
No telling how Sharpe or Houston could have panned out..
And the list goes on and on..

 

[saltybulldog]

As you all remember Porn-star Rhodes was going to transfer...
R. Jackson did transfer.
No telling how Sharpe or Houston could have panned out..
And the list goes on and on..

Rhodes didnt transfer...last seen in Starkville kissing the floor and hugging all the coaches.
R. Jackson was a problem at his second stop.
Sharpe was shot and Houston is MIA...neither panned out because of their attitudes not the coaches.

The list goes on to Delk(s) and Hans...and TO Ervin.

This does hurt, but we are still winning games.

 

[8dog]

R. Jackson was a problem at his second stop.

In helping Marquette get to the Final Four?

 

[saltybulldog]

nt

 

[8dog]

after he leaves or whether it was in his best interest is wholly irrelevant. If he is leaving on his accord, there is a reason regardless of whether he is good, bad or horrible. And we have now lost 4 starting sophs in 4 years. I don't care where they went or how they did. They started for us and left. Something is not right.

We can rationalize it all day by saying "we didn't miss them" or "they didn't do anything where they went" but all of that is irrelevant to the underlying, mysterious problem.

 

[thunderclap]

I'd say that about sums it up.

 

[fishwater99]

Salt you have no clue..

I am saying that there is a BIG problem if one of our best players from this year almost transferred...(Rhodes)
No telling what Sharpe, Houston, or Jackson could have turned into under a coach who could have developed them into better players.
Not to mention Goodridge and Rimmer.
Let's see Hans, the Delks, & Irvin...
Who else has left StarkVegas because of Stans???
Do you see a pattern here???
Hello!!!!!!!!

 

[patdog]

the fact is our team immediately got better the day he was kicked off. He was an example of a team cancer who used a year off to mature and become a better team player. That transfer was a rare win-win-win situation. Good for MSU, Robert Jackson, and Marquette.

 

[saltybulldog]

In my crazy mind the point of "transferring" to another school is so your position on a team will improve. The goal here is to play basketball...right? Only one player to date that has transferred has improved his position since he left and that one guy (Jackson) was an apparent problem for our team. I see Ervin in the same light.

I agree, and have stated before something isnt right...I want it fixed but at what cost? The Delk and Hans may light it up in the coming years and I will rethink my position on this, but right now it appears to me that these guys are making rash, bad decisions on their future and it is hurting MSU now.

 

[UnknownDawg]

If memory serves, he was actually voted off by the team. He may have called it a transfer from one school to another, but his teammates sent him packing from MSU basketball by a damn near unanimous vote.

 

[Stormrider81]

Niether is Ervin. If you want examples of good players that contributed leaving then you have the Delks and Ben, which is really all the evidence you need to make your case. The other guys were either not talented enough to play in the SEC or had attitude problems. In those cases I would say we messed up in recruiting evaluation. The Delks and Hans show a pattern of hard working, gritty players leaving after their second full year in the program. Last year people dismissed the Delks leaving by saying "we have Ben and Barry, we won't miss them." Well, we did miss them, and now we have no experienced player to replace Ben.

I'm a huge Stansbury supporter. I like the guy and believe he is a good coach. However, for some reason he struggles to keep players and their parents happy. There is something wrong here and I have no idea what it is. If a parent is heavily involved then you can look for trouble.

 

[onewoof]

Stans doesnt do the drama thing. His stance has always been, if you aren't happy, leave, we will be fine, there are 3 more recruits and a player or 2 as good as you. He sure as hell doesn't feed their ego.

Hans wasn't ever part of the team, he never did anything with the team. I am telling you, this kid has issues beyond Stans and MSU. Period. This transfer is just him avoiding that realization. All the practice facilities and transfer to other schools won't change that. Same goes for the Delk twins.

Say what you want, but Hans was on the fringe of the A team and the B team. Stunk it up to start the year, ended well. His basketball days are coming to a close. Regardless, if he isn't happy at MSU, I am sure Stans told him to go where he is happy. Just like he told Ervin and the others. Either get with it or go be happy somewhere else.

We recruit a fair amount of high maintenance players who think they are better than they are. Its where we are as a program.

Lets take a bet, how much more will we hear from players that transfer? Surely by luck at least one of them will find "a great coach that can develop them". BS. Total BS. Look at the list of those leaving, they are all B teamers.

B Teamers can win but they need to play together 4 years to beat the A teamers. See Kansas vs. Memphis.

 

[Roy Munson.sixpack]

they are leaving, it is that SO MANY CONTINUE TO LEAVE. THAT is the problem. Either their pussies hurt, they dont play my kind of basketball, i cant go to meetings, always in trouble, stans is a joke, stans plays favorites, i suck, they suck and whatever else we arent getting the right people in here. THe "program" is losing players left and right for different reasons and not finishing their time here. We are evaluating, mismanaging and have no respect from any of them...

 

[shaschboy]

IMHO, I believe the game is leaving the coach and being coached on the court. Look at last nights game. Memphis had the damn thing one and does an alley-oop with under a minute to play?? Cali. has been quoted as letting them run and gun and make their own decisions. It almost worked last night. The question with Hans is he wants to play on a "team" like his brother. Unfortunately, the game has been and is changing for the worst. Georgetown, Arkansas, UNLV, and now Memphis. All teams that ran chaotic offenses. I still believe in fundamentals. I think Stans is trying to split the difference and it ain't gonna work. You can't have a Hans and Jamont out there because each plays opposites types of B-ball. Just MHO.

 

[mstateglfr]

As you all remember Porn-star Rhodes was going to transfer...
R. Jackson did transfer.
No telling how Sharpe or Houston could have panned out..
And the list goes on and on..

Rhodes didnt transfer...last seen in Starkville kissing the floor and hugging all the coaches.
R. Jackson was a problem at his second stop.
Sharpe was shot and Houston is MIA...neither panned out because of their attitudes not the coaches.

The list goes on to Delk(s) and Hans...and TO Ervin.

This does hurt, but we are still winning games.

you are correct, Rhodes didnt transfer. but the statement was that he ALMOST transferred. meaning, though he stayed, he had ideas of leaving.</p>

Ro-bert Ja-ckson wasnt a problem at Marquette. the guy played great there. he was a key part of their success that season. are you just making this **** up?</p>Sharpe still has a chance to pan out, albeit a small one. the guy has the skill to be a great player at UAB.

and Houston hasnt gone MIA. he is at Tenn State. he almost helped lead them into the NCAA tournament this season. he averaged 11.5pts and 6rebounds a game this season as a sophmore.

 

[saltybulldog]

The guy was a problem here and everyone wanted him out...so yes he was talented but we were a better team without him.

Sharpe still has a chance to pan out, albeit a small one. the guy has the skill to be a great player at UAB.

and Houston hasnt gone MIA. he is at Tenn State. he almost helped lead them into the NCAA tournament this season. he averaged 11.5pts and 6rebounds a game this season as a sophmore.

So which is a better statement with the above considered.

A. The majority of the players that have left State and gone on to other schools were attitude problems, marginally talented (ie, would not have seen significant playing time here), or hurt their own basketball career by leaving. The one player that threatened to leave stayed and had a great career (Rhodes).

B. The players that have left have have improved their situation because of the bad situation at MSU and Stans is the root of this problem.

Look, I agree that this is a problem but I liken it more to this being an issue with some of these guys thinking they deserve more than Stans is willing to give. Gordon is the best player on our team, he should be taking the last shot. I think one of the reasons that it happens more here is because Stans is willing to let them walk without restrictions. I would imagine that alot of coaches, when discussing players futures, dont openly agree to let them go free.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....as much as we all dislike Calipari, he somehow keeps his team of prima donnas happy. Guys that could get significant minutes at good schools don't even start there. And you have the Delks, who basically started from day one their true freshman year, and Ben, who started all year his soph. year and got significant minutes his freshman year, and they are leaving.

Something is very, very wrong. And I have my theories.

 

[davatron]

And I have my theories.

Elaborate.
</p>

 

[DowntownDawg]

....Stansbury has the reputation of being an "aggressive" recruiter. I think he buys players sometimes. Hell, I think alot of coaches do it. I think some coaches don't, but I think Stansbury does. And once he gets them in the fold, I don't think he has the ability to control them. I think Jamont is a perfect example. In many ways, Stansbury has catered to Jamont. I've never seen Stansbury get in Jamont's face, but I've seen him in Ben's face several times. For whatever reason, Stansbury can't control/cows down to the big ego guys, which may very well be guys that he has paid for.

I think Ben got sick of being made an example of while Jamont got free passes. Ben's a better shooter than Jamont by a mile, but whenever we needed a three late in a game, the whole world knew who was going to take it. Of course I have no idea what goes on at practice, so I won't speculate on that.

What I will say is that it's very obvious that these players don't really respect Stansbury. And if he's paid me a bunch of money to play for him, I might have a hard time respecting him. And if I know he's paid a teammate a bunch of money to play for him, but he didn't pay ME any money to play for him, and he lets that teammate get a free pass all the time while he is in my face, I will have a hard time respecting him.

See Dontae Walker with Jackie Wayne. Jackie let Dontae embarrass him without discipling him. What could he do? His hands were tied. Why was Ervin allowed to transfer to a rival in the same division? What could he do? His hands were tied. This is the down side of this "aggressive" recruiting, and the negatives are starting to outweigh the positives.

All of this is my opinion, but I don't think you can dispute that the players don't respect him. If they did, they wouldn't want to leave for a place with an IPF, to be closer to home, to get more minutes, to play a different position, or whatever BS excuse is out there. They would believe in him and want to win for him, even if everything wasn't exactly how they'd drawn it up.

 

[dawgstudent]

**

 

[Eureka Dog]

about JG & BH playing two different types of BB probably has more to do with BH's unhappiness than anything else. Ben's the kind of player that would fit in with the team depicted in Hoosiers. A team of unselfish, "BKB fundamental obsessors", who know they have to rely on each other to survive.

While he improved somewhat this year, JG still tries to solo too much, and often times tries to do too much in critical situations when he should allow his teammates to help out.

 

[Married to a Dog]

nm

 

[Stansfield]

If he is so upset about someone else being payed and he is not, why wouldn't he just blow the whistle? That is ridiculous.

 

[saltybulldog]

you had me until...

Why was Ervin allowed to transfer to a rival in the same division? What could he do? His hands were tied.

I find it hard to believe we paid for Ervin. I know he was a big shot recruit, but what were his other offers?

 

[8dog]

Bama, Pitt and Temple on scout. I can't access his rivals bio. He was a 4 star on both. He was a big sign. Not saying we paid him.

 

[DowntownDawg]

to go play against one of our biggest rivals if Ervin didn't have him by the balls? It is what it is man. You just don't do that to be nice. Ervin's team kept us out of the dance last year, and Stansbury had to know that that possibility was there. He let him go, and let him go one of about 6 teams that could directly hurt us badly. Hell, even if he transfers to Florida or Georgia, it's not near as big of a deal. He let him go there for the same reason Sherrill let Dontae back into the line a million times, gain 60 pounds in the offseason, and embarrass the team by walking off the field.

 

[Stansfield]

So, instead of blowing the whistle on Stansbury, the players that didn't get paid just tuck their tail between their legs and leave? I find that just as farfetched.

 

[JR]

If Ervin turns Stans in, both he and Stans are punished and Ervin probably never plays again.
If Stans doesnt release Ervin to Arkansas, Ervin has to sit out TWO years, and probably never plays again. At which point Ervin doesnt have anything to lose by the NCAA knowing of the supposed payout (again not saying it happened, just explaining the math)

Ervin probably doesnt even have to point out the above arithmetic to Stans. Stans just grants the release and everyone moves on.

 

[Stansfield]

I am not saying the player who got paid would rat himself out. I am saying that the theory of other "non-paid" players transferring because they know other players got paid is just too far fetched.

 

[JR]

What would prevent Ervin from turning Stans in once Ervin's eligibility had expired at Arkansas.
Also the Arkansas staff would be highly motivated to get Ervin to turn Stans in after Ervin graduated

I think its unlikely its was a paid player getting taken care by Stans. I think it was Stans probably regretting how the Ervin fiasco worked out, maybe thinking he was to blame some, and trying to be a nice guy. At least thats what I would LIKE to think. I still think Stans mishandled Ervin, but you know what? Maybe he felt for the guy since the guy was coached by one of our former players in HS and everything.

 

[onewoof]

Stans simply doesn't care if these players leave if they aren't happy. It gives him one more spot to recruit a better player. That is his mindset. If you don't like it, please, PLEASE leave.

Now if a Lawrence Roberts or a Jamont Gordon isn't happy, thats a problem he will deal with. He simply doesn't have time for what I call the "B game" players. They know it, their parents know it and it pisses them off even more. He caters to his A game players like Swat and Jamont and Rhodes, as he should.

I am telling you man Stans avoids all this petty *** drama and whining like the plague.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....and in addition, Stans just can't take that risk. Ervin loses his remaining ability to play basketball, but Stansbury loses his career and gets the program put on probation. He might not ever coach at a high level again. He can't afford to call his bluff on it.

 

[saltybulldog]

Ervin's team kept us out of the dance last year, and Stansbury had to know that that possibility was there.

Ervin's team may have kept us out, but Ervin being on the team didnt cause us to lose that game. Losing Ervin and Ervin going to Ark did not cost us a game. I think everyone is knee deep in conspiracy theories right now.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....but that doesn't address why he let him go to Arkansas, a division freaking rival. You don't let that happen. You just don't. Unless you feel like you don't have a choice.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....what was Ervin's stat line in the SEC tournament game against us?

Not to mention that he had a good game against us up there. Anyway, that's water under the bridge. But he did hurt us, you can't deny that. And Stansbury had to know that he had a chance to hurt us by going to a division rival, and any logical person would've prevented that. If Stansbury had any leverage, just tell the kid, I'll sign for you to play anywhere but the SEC. I'm telling you, he felt like he didn't have any leverage.

That's just my opinion, and I don't really think it's that far out there.

 

[DerHntr]

<div class="flan_comment_body">

<div class="flan_comment_body"> It is because he pays great players to come here and then does not punish them and let's them do whatever they please, and the average players (Ben) he has to discipline. Stans has NO control over our program. </div>

and

John pretty much hit it right on the head. You cant expect to run a dirty program and then keep all the talent that you got illegally. Maybe he should have "donated" more money to Ben's chruch. haha.

Maybe I don't keep up enough but do we actually have the reputation as a dirty basketball program? I can understand promising guys the moon and then "letting them fight for their position" once they get here. All coaches do it. But I haven't heard much about our basketball coaches being dirty recruiters.

Now of course I do know that a lot of the people posting on the Reflector are idiots...but we have idiots right here too so keep your "but it was in the reflector" ******** comments to your damn self. I am actually asking a real question. </div>