Those of you thinking that we are going to land the 5* level baseball transfers are mistaken.....

[OG Goat Holder]

There are plenty of things to be mad at Lemonis about, but not landing the big fish is not the thing. At least not historically. However, if you want to find out what's wrong with our program, you have to dig deeper. I'm talking from a very general viewpoint here, so don't try and throw out exceptions here and there.

You could say we got the big fish in the early days, up through the mid-90s. I think 1995 was the last class where we truly got the elite guys throughout, and even then, most of them were from MS. Then of course, after that, Polk dropped the ball and we didn't even get the elite MS guys - they all went to Ole Miss for a decade. But ever since Cohen came along, we've basically been getting the high 3* and 4* types, and coaching them up. Remember comparing us against LSU, Vandy and Florida back in those days? They always had better talent than we did. No idea why - but I'm sure it had to do with scholarship money, desirable location, whatever.

That was even true for our title team - those guys were not the 5* types. The guys we get that end up 1st rounders always had some level of flaw out of high school. Some were injured (Bednar), some were raw (Renfroe, Westburg, Hudson), some just developed (Stratton, Foscue, Sims). Even TA and Rowdy were guys who 4th year seniors who should have been gone the year before, and likely sign in 2020 in later rounds if there had been a normal or even 20-round draft.

So bringing us to the present and our portal classes - they haven't been a problem. Dubrule, Yeagar, Ledbetter, Kohler and Hujsak - we've gotten value there - and all from the G5 level programs. So many have gotten mad about Skenes, Holman and Montgomery, etc......but we've NEVER landed those guys.

My gripe isn't the overall talent that Lemonis has brought in, it's the way we are using them. We are trying to play metric, station-station ball like the MLB without having the good players to make that work. We actually do have some grinders, but also some 'metric' guys like Hines who can hit bombs, but aren't the total package. We don't have an identity at the plate.

But hell if this pitching coach can keep getting better, and we continue to field it well, what we do at the plate may not matter.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

We shop at the scratch and dent sales. Bargains we hope are just ugly but perform well.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

We shop at the scratch and dent sales. Bargains we hope are just ugly but perform well.

I don't disagree. As long as we realize it's not just Lemonis.....it's basically all our coaches in the last 25 years.

And here's another little factoid so many don't want to acknowledge - the reason we get the attention that we do is due to our fanbase and stadium.

 

[Seinfeld]

The thing is, I don't have gripes with Lemonis over his use of the portal or his recruiting. According to Perfect Game, our last 4 classes have been ranked # 26, 8, 13, and 16. Then it looks like we're sitting at #14 so far with the '25 class. We can all sit here and talk about bad evaluations, but if PG is continuously thinking that we're signing Top 15 classes, I have to think that we're getting some talented kids to sign. Also, to put these classes into perspective, this is where schools like Tennessee, FlaSt, Clemson, and Florida tend to hover in football rankings, so while Lemonis may not be recruiting at an elite level, he's the next level down.

The elephant in the room is the fact that he hasn't been able to do jack **** with this talent in 3 years now, and he is either absolutely awful at putting the right staff around him, he's one of the nation's worst at developing talent, or some combination of both. The portal is getting a lot of attention this offseason because we're basically having to assemble an entirely new roster for '25, but the problem is that we should never be in a position like this. Like most, I'm thrilled with the addition of Parker, but I'll be damned if Lemonis didn't just take a shotgun to his foot again by hanging on to Gautreaux. It's Foxhall all over again, and when our batting order is complete a$$ next year as expected, we're all gonna hear all the same ol' excuses about how young and inexperienced we are. Yeah well, why are we young and inexperienced with the signing classes that I mentioned above?

I guess I say all that say that I don't really disagree with anything you said, but I'll reiterate that there's absolutely zero reason for this program to not be hosting regionals on a fairly common basis. The last 3 years + the inevitable disappointing season in '25 is just inexcusable for this program

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Well we hired an Indiana head coach who didn't really build jack squats he coached with McDonnell and got to go to some cws. But he never built anything himself.
Schloss built tcu and has now built up TAMU. Same thing with Vitello. Took that program from crap to constant World Series and in the title series. That's what it takes repeat trips and staying at the top and constant development. Lemonis held our program at that level for three years but the guys that were used to cws and supers that he inherited knew that and had that culture. The problem with Lem is his lack of player development and keeping that culture we had. He got lazy and doesn't know how to build it back because he's never done it before. He could prove me wrong next year because he fixed part of the pitching problem with a new coach, but we still didn't have enough horses in the stable because of piss poor recruiting and development last three year. However we still haven't done anything for hitting and base running. I'm sorry butt cheesebro should have been let go already. And gautreau should have as well looking and how our hitting has declined. His shine has worn off. We hired an Indiana coach and it we got a bargain for a natty no doubt but now we are getting Indiana results. Point is trajectory of program. Others in sec got program builders we did not.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

12 months from a new Baseball coach

 

[HuntDawg]

This is a dumb take. You’re comparing high school recruiting to the portal. The portal is totally different and when lesser programs or programs that people on this board assume we are lesser than are landing big fish and we can’t it’s squarely on Lemonis.

you cannot compare Lemonis and his recruiting to anyone in the past. Because no one else had the opportunity to lure known talent in thru the transfer portal. No one else had the opportunity to know I need this type player next season and not be able to land it or fail to land it while a rival in conference lands the exact thing you were wanting and needing

 

[The Cooterpoot]

12 months from a new Baseball coach

Except he's under contract for two years and likely gets both unless he bottoms out things and completely misses post season.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Except he's under contract for two years and likely gets both unless he bottoms out things and completely misses post season.

Unless he ups his portal game exponentially, MSU and Mizzou will be fighting it out for the bottom of the SEC.

 

[HuntDawg]

There are plenty of things to be mad at Lemonis about, but not landing the big fish is not the thing. At least not historically. However, if you want to find out what's wrong with our program, you have to dig deeper. I'm talking from a very general viewpoint here, so don't try and throw out exceptions here and there.

You could say we got the big fish in the early days, up through the mid-90s. I think 1995 was the last class where we truly got the elite guys throughout, and even then, most of them were from MS. Then of course, after that, Polk dropped the ball and we didn't even get the elite MS guys - they all went to Ole Miss for a decade. But ever since Cohen came along, we've basically been getting the high 3* and 4* types, and coaching them up. Remember comparing us against LSU, Vandy and Florida back in those days? They always had better talent than we did. No idea why - but I'm sure it had to do with scholarship money, desirable location, whatever.

That was even true for our title team - those guys were not the 5* types. The guys we get that end up 1st rounders always had some level of flaw out of high school. Some were injured (Bednar), some were raw (Renfroe, Westburg, Hudson), some just developed (Stratton, Foscue, Sims). Even TA and Rowdy were guys who 4th year seniors who should have been gone the year before, and likely sign in 2020 in later rounds if there had been a normal or even 20-round draft.

So bringing us to the present and our portal classes - they haven't been a problem. Dubrule, Yeagar, Ledbetter, Kohler and Hujsak - we've gotten value there - and all from the G5 level programs. So many have gotten mad about Skenes, Holman and Montgomery, etc......but we've NEVER landed those guys.

My gripe isn't the overall talent that Lemonis has brought in, it's the way we are using them. We are trying to play metric, station-station ball like the MLB without having the good players to make that work. We actually do have some grinders, but also some 'metric' guys like Hines who can hit bombs, but aren't the total package. We don't have an identity at the plate.

But hell if this pitching coach can keep getting better, and we continue to field it well, what we do at the plate may not matter.

Typical goat post. I’ll save everyone the trouble and add cliff notes:

he hates people we recruit because they are 5 star travel ballers

travel ballers don’t win in college because the mlb game doesn’t translate

we need to recruit the tough 3 star guys and develop them

What goat fails to realize is exactly what Tony vatelo said last night…. There is more sheer talent in the college game than has ever been in the last 25 years. You can’t take a bunch or 3 stars and get em tough and win. Because someone else will just continue to reload with real talent and add to that talent with the portal…. The only way to win right now is with top end talent. Texas Am and Tennessee have two of the most talented rosters in the country.. as did lsu and Florida last season…

 

[ababyatemydingo]

Well we hired an Indiana head coach who didn't really build jack squats he coached with McDonnell and got to go to some cws. But he never built anything himself.
Schloss built tcu and has now built up TAMU. Same thing with Vitello. Took that program from crap to constant World Series and in the title series. That's what it takes repeat trips and staying at the top and constant development. Lemonis held our program at that level for three years but the guys that were used to cws and supers that he inherited knew that and had that culture. The problem with Lem is his lack of player development and keeping that culture we had. He got lazy and doesn't know how to build it back because he's never done it before. He could prove me wrong next year because he fixed part of the pitching problem with a new coach, but we still didn't have enough horses in the stable because of piss poor recruiting and development last three year. However we still haven't done anything for hitting and base running. I'm sorry butt cheesebro should have been let go already. And gautreau should have as well looking and how our hitting has declined. His shine has worn off. We hired an Indiana coach and it we got a bargain for a natty no doubt but now we are getting Indiana results. Point is trajectory of program. Others in sec got program builders we did not.

wonder why GoTro has never been courted for HC anywhere, if he is so great a recruiter and hitting coach? answer to the rhetorical question. He's not great at either of those. He and Cheese are weak links, not withstanding Lem's weaknesses.

 

[Dawgbite]

Unless he ups his portal game exponentially, MSU and Mizzou will be fighting it out for the bottom of the SEC.

I bet we make Hoover next year!

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The thing is, I don't have gripes with Lemonis over his use of the portal or his recruiting. According to Perfect Game, our last 4 classes have been ranked # 26, 8, 13, and 16. Then it looks like we're sitting at #14 so far with the '25 class. We can all sit here and talk about bad evaluations, but if PG is continuously thinking that we're signing Top 15 classes, I have to think that we're getting some talented kids to sign. Also, to put these classes into perspective, this is where schools like Tennessee, FlaSt, Clemson, and Florida tend to hover in football rankings, so while Lemonis may not be recruiting at an elite level, he's the next level down.

The elephant in the room is the fact that he hasn't been able to do jack **** with this talent in 3 years now, and he is either absolutely awful at putting the right staff around him, he's one of the nation's worst at developing talent, or some combination of both. The portal is getting a lot of attention this offseason because we're basically having to assemble an entirely new roster for '25, but the problem is that we should never be in a position like this. Like most, I'm thrilled with the addition of Parker, but I'll be damned if Lemonis didn't just take a shotgun to his foot again by hanging on to Gautreaux. It's Foxhall all over again, and when our batting order is complete a$$ next year as expected, we're all gonna hear all the same ol' excuses about how young and inexperienced we are. Yeah well, why are we young and inexperienced with the signing classes that I mentioned above?

I guess I say all that say that I don't really disagree with anything you said, but I'll reiterate that there's absolutely zero reason for this program to not be hosting regionals on a fairly common basis. The last 3 years + the inevitable disappointing season in '25 is just inexcusable for this program

He’s just trying to do something that you can’t do with the players we typically get. Or I guess he CAN, because he did in 2019-2021. He just can’t create or maintain the culture needed apparently.

 

[LimaoCabeca]

12 months from a new Baseball coach

Depressing that no one in the administration had a big enough sack to save the program from this purgatory.

 

[aTotal360]

According to Perfect Game, our last 4 classes have been ranked # 26, 8, 13, and 16. Then it looks like we're sitting at #14 so far with the '25 class.

The problem is those classes seem solid until you realize our peers are damn near 1-10 during that time.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Typical goat post. I’ll save everyone the trouble and add cliff notes:

he hates people we recruit because they are 5 star travel ballers

travel ballers don’t win in college because the mlb game doesn’t translate

we need to recruit the tough 3 star guys and develop them

What goat fails to realize is exactly what Tony vatelo said last night…. There is more sheer talent in the college game than has ever been in the last 25 years. You can’t take a bunch or 3 stars and get em tough and win. Because someone else will just continue to reload with real talent and add to that talent with the portal…. The only way to win right now is with top end talent. Texas Am and Tennessee have two of the most talented rosters in the country.. as did lsu and Florida last season…

We won 3 years ago with 4* talent, when Texas, Tennessee, Vandy had all their typical personnel. Most everyone agrees that year had more sheer talent in college than ever due to COVID year. Notre Dame even had better talent than us.

Next question please.

 

[HuntDawg]

We won 3 years ago with 4* talent, when Texas, Tennessee, Vandy had all their typical personnel. Most everyone agrees that year had more sheer talent in college than ever due to COVID year.

Next question please.

The game has changed that much in 3 years. The portal hadn’t become the factor it is now

plus covid has nothing to do with the talent on display now. Nil paying top draft picks to go to college. MLB having less rounds in the draft and less teams… those issues aren’t going away like Covid did. Thus this is the new front of college baseball… and if you think getting 3 stars and developing them will work in this phase.. it won’t.. but you are never wrong so I’ll let you have your beliefs. Doesn’t take much to turn on the tv and watch this game playing now… the talent on display you won’t get by developing 3 stars

if you look at the talent playing now and compare it to Covid year… it’s laughable to think there is more talent then. Compare the numbers. It’s not even close. You have guys now spending less than 1 year in the minors before reaching the majors….there will be more and more guys doing this

Also that group was extremely talented. We had guys that couldn’t even pitch for us getting drafted in the top 5 rounds.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Nil paying top draft picks to go to college. MLB having less rounds in the draft and less teams… those issues aren’t going away like Covid did. Thus this is the new front of college baseball… and if you think getting 3 stars and developing them will work in this phase.. it won’t.

Nah, that’s not really happening any worse than it was before (the first part about NIL and top picks). Vandy, Florida, LSU type programs could get a few of them.

Then you contradict yourself when you talk about the shortened draft, because the guys that used to get drafted in rounds 21-40 are the 4* guys, who are now going to college and getting developed. They aren’t the top guys. Even Skenes falls into this category, that’s why he went in the Air Force. There is now just a second chance for teams to get a crack at them, but it’s not us. We have to target the second rate guys even out of the portal.

That’s just life for us.

 

[aTotal360]

We won 3 years ago with 4* talent, when Texas, Tennessee, Vandy had all their typical personnel. Most everyone agrees that year had more sheer talent in college than ever due to COVID year. Notre Dame even had better talent than us.

Next question please.

I agree. NIL/portal era isn't doing us any favors. We are VERY lucky we won it all when we did. All the "big money" schools can simply snipe the best players from smaller schools. We don't have the fire power to compete. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[patdog]

The thing is, I don't have gripes with Lemonis over his use of the portal or his recruiting. According to Perfect Game, our last 4 classes have been ranked # 26, 8, 13, and 16. Then it looks like we're sitting at #14 so far with the '25 class. We can all sit here and talk about bad evaluations, but if PG is continuously thinking that we're signing Top 15 classes, I have to think that we're getting some talented kids to sign. Also, to put these classes into perspective, this is where schools like Tennessee, FlaSt, Clemson, and Florida tend to hover in football rankings, so while Lemonis may not be recruiting at an elite level, he's the next level down.

what that tells me is perfect game recruiting rankings are garbage. Most likely highly intentionally biased. We’re well below those rankings in actual talent.

 

[HuntDawg]

Nah, that’s not really happening any worse than it was before (the first part about NIL and top picks). Vandy, Florida, LSU type programs could get a few of them.

Then you contradict yourself when you talk about the shortened draft, because the guys that used to get drafted in rounds 21-40 are the 4* guys, who are now going to college and getting developed. They aren’t the top guys. Even Skenes falls into this category, that’s why he went in the Air Force. There is now just a second chance for teams to get a crack at them, but it’s not us. We have to target the second rate guys even out of the portal.

That’s just life for us.

More high end talent is playing college baseball now than ever before. Numbers show this… the dang coach of one of those teams in the grind said this same thing last night….. these numbers these kids are putting up are unreal. Dakota Jordan doesn’t to get to campus without NIL. And there are tons of these kids littered thru college baseball.

guys going 21-40 aren’t 4 star guys. College seniors. Juniors that you can take a shot on that may or may not sign, Juco kids, etc .

skenes and guys just like him are why you have to land the big fish portal. You aren’t going to get a team full of 3 star kids and develop them all into skenes…there will be more duds than studs. Hence why good teams land the 5 star and elite talent.. then when someone else develops the talent they need.. they throw the NiL money at it and steal that talent…. Lemonis and company aren’t the best at that.., and that’s why the talent on other rosters are much more than ours. You can’t turn chicken **** into chicken salad… got to have some real talent

 

[OG Goat Holder]

what that tells me is perfect game recruiting rankings are garbage. Most likely highly intentionally biased. We’re well below those rankings in actual talent.

Somewhat correct. If you recruit showcase exclusively, and you’re MSU, you end up with 2nd rate showcase/metric talent. And that doesn’t perform well against the 1st rate metric talent.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Somewhat correct. If you recruit showcase exclusively, and you’re MSU, you end up with 2nd rate showcase/metric talent. And that doesn’t perform well against the 1st rate metric talent.

Nobody recruits High School Baseball Games.

 

[leeinator]

I don't disagree. As long as we realize it's not just Lemonis.....it's basically all our coaches in the last 25 years.

And here's another little factoid so many don't want to acknowledge - the reason we get the attention that we do is due to our fanbase and stadium.

TAMU is getting ready to drop 80 million on an already top 5 stadium within the SEC. Some have said it will look like a smaller version of a MLB stadium.....so with all that, they will be someone we cannot compete with for the cream of the crop. They will be a top talent magnet pulling in numerous "Braden Montgomerys'."

 

[Anon1704414204]

I couldn't get past paragraph 2 to avoid suicidal thoughts.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

It looks like we could at least beat Central Arkansas at Dudy Noble tho.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

TAMU is getting ready to drop 80 million on an already top 5 stadium within the SEC. Some have said it will look like a smaller version of a MLB stadium.....so with all that, they will be someone we cannot compete with for the cream of the crop. They will be a top talent magnet pulling in numerous "Braden Montgomerys'."

We can only control MSU though. We just need to accept some reality. We have some folks that have 1989 recruiting expectations.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

We can only control MSU though. We just need to accept some reality. We have some folks that have 1989 recruiting expectations.

Thats fine and all but there’s been some really good transfers served on a silver platter (with interest and NIL money) for Lemonis in this transfer cycle and he can’t close the deal. You’ve decided that you’re going to defend Lemonis so this is storyline you came up with.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You’ve decided that you’re going to defend Lemonis so this is storyline you came up with.

That’s news to me. You sure that’s not just something you want to be true?

I find it hard to believe Lemonis is passing on or screwing up good players that want to come here That’s what sounds like an agenda, I’m gonna take a wild guess at the podcast you just regurgitated.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Thats fine and all but there’s been some really good transfers served on a silver platter (with interest and NIL money) for Lemonis in this transfer cycle and he can’t close the deal. You’ve decided that you’re going to defend Lemonis so this is storyline you came up with.

^^^This^^^ We have Top 10 Baseball NIL, Top 5 Stadium, Top 10 Coaching Staff compensation and have won a National Championship in recent history.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

^^^This^^^ We have Top 10 Baseball NIL, Top 5 Stadium, Top 10 Coaching Staff compensation and have won a National Championship in recent history.

Everybody else in that Top 10 is also in the SEC, I’m betting (though no one really knows these numbers). That makes it kinda tough, especially when the committee has the same old school thoughts as many here, like “we can only have 5 hosts from muh SEC” and shlt like that, like it’s 2006.

 

[GloryDawg]

We were kind of close to having a real good team this season but close does not get it done especially three seasons after the NC run. We will be starting from scratch next season in a new rebuild. He's going to have to do more next season.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

TAMU is getting ready to drop 80 million on an already top 5 stadium within the SEC. Some have said it will look like a smaller version of a MLB stadium.....so with all that, they will be someone we cannot compete with for the cream of the crop. They will be a top talent magnet pulling in numerous "Braden Montgomerys'."

But but we got da best stadium in tha sec. We got too fat and happy with a new stadium and a natty. Now another school in sec about to win one. If you you want to stay at the top or at least in top quarter you have to be constantly improving and have program builders leading it. Yeah we won a natty so what several other sec schools have as well. If you want to stay in the top of sec you need to keep up and keep building. Arkansas is learning that as well. Got to be at that level of taking teams to deep post season regularly if ever want to sniff another natty again. Glad we have a nice stadium...for now. Have to keep building and higher levels more now that ever with the portal and nil.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

But but we got da best stadium in tha sec. We got too fat and happy with a new stadium and a natty. Now another school in sec about to win one. If you you want to stay at the top or at least in top quarter you have to be constantly improving and have program builders leading it. Yeah we won a natty so what several other sec schools have as well. If you want to stay in the top of sec you need to keep up and keep building. Arkansas is learning that as well. Got to be at that level of taking teams to deep post season regularly if ever want to sniff another natty again. Glad we have a nice stadium...for now. Have to keep building and higher levels more now that ever with the portal and nil.

I’ll say again I think that 2022 is the bigger travesty than 2023 or 2024. Had we accomplished something in 2022, none of this heat would exist.

I am on record that I think the biggest problem with that season was the TJ epidemic. But that happens to everyone. I also agree with Rosebowl that we didn’t hit the portal hard enough, especially on the pitching side. We brought in Walling - that’s it, and got nothing. Considering our we lost all 3 weekend starters after 2021………THAT was where we lost it. It cost Foxhall his job at minimum, and cost us probably 10 games.

So I guess I agree, we did get fat and happy that year.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

That’s news to me. You sure that’s not just something you want to be true?

I find it hard to believe Lemonis is passing on or screwing up good players that want to come here That’s what sounds like an agenda, I’m gonna take a wild guess at the podcast you just regurgitated.

Not a podcast and certainly not an agenda. He has whiffed on closing it with some really solid players. Just telling you what has happened.

 

[StillTbonewannabe]

Except he's under contract for two years and likely gets both unless he bottoms out things and completely misses post season.

How does he have two years? Did we give him an extension after 22? His contract can't be longer than 4 years so if we extended him after the National Title then 2022 would be year 1 on his new contract.

 

[patdog]

How does he have two years? Did we give him an extension after 22? His contract can't be longer than 4 years so if we extended him after the National Title then 2022 would be year 1 on his new contract.

Never underestimate the stupidity of our athletic dept. They probably extended him after the 2023 season.

 

[retire the banner]

Mississippi State baseball will be fine. Top 5 program in the country. Calm down, Goat

We can do better than Lemonis though. And as long as he’s in charge, we will likely be underwhelmed with our results. Lemo caught lightening in a bottle in ‘21. Similar vibes to Chizik 2010

 

[mcdawg22]

What do you consider 5*? Since nobody uses that for baseball recruiting I assume you mean top 30-40? Those guys normally go pro.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Mississippi State baseball will be fine. Top 5 program in the country. Calm down, Goat

We can do better than Lemonis though. And as long as he’s in charge, we will likely be underwhelmed with our results. Lemo caught lightening in a bottle in ‘21. Similar vibes to Chizik 2010

Actually, more like top 15, if you're taking CWS appearances and then weighting titles a little bit heavier.

That's something our fans don't want to admit. And we recruit like a top 15 team too, rather than a top 5. And we won't, until we either produce more players in-state, get lucky with a great coach and/or create some financial niche that is uniquely ours.