Those of you thinking that we are going to land the 5* level baseball transfers are mistaken.....

[OG Goat Holder]

What do you consider 5*? Since nobody uses that for baseball recruiting I assume you mean top 30-40? Those guys normally go pro.

Yes. Same situation as football really. The sure bets, the ones with offers from everybody, whether it's high school or the portal (now). Usually very big and toolsy guys. Hard to put a true number on them. I think in football, they say the top 50 recruits are 5*?

I'm thinking the only one we've signed lately is J.T. Ginn. Dakota Jordan is on the line, probably, more of a high 4*. But a lot of these guys who weren't really signable were guys who got drafted late in the old system.

 

[HuntDawg]

We aren’t top 5 in the country unless you have some weird way you are measuring top 5.

 

[HuntDawg]

Yes. Same situation as football really. The sure bets, the ones with offers from everybody, whether it's high school or the portal (now). Usually very big and toolsy guys. Hard to put a true number on them. I think in football, they say the top 50 recruits are 5*?

I'm thinking the only one we've signed lately is J.T. Ginn. Dakota Jordan is on the line, probably, more of a high 4*. But a lot of these guys who weren't really signable were guys who got drafted late in the old system.

Kupp was top 50 by at least 1 publication and was cjinte By a few publications as well.. Jordan was on the line. A few others weve signed but not made to campus were well inside the top 50. Obviously we have at least one of those guys signed this year that likely wont make it to campus

however again 50 is too low. Typically 20+ guys will sign. So as long as you are getting to campus a top 75 player you are doing well.

 

[mcdawg22]

Yes. Same situation as football really. The sure bets, the ones with offers from everybody, whether it's high school or the portal (now). Usually very big and toolsy guys. Hard to put a true number on them. I think in football, they say the top 50 recruits are 5*?

I'm thinking the only one we've signed lately is J.T. Ginn. Dakota Jordan is on the line, probably, more of a high 4*. But a lot of these guys who weren't really signable were guys who got drafted late in the old system.

21 was the really bad year. No top 100 guys 26th rated class. Thats horrible for us in baseball.
Recent top 100s are DJ, Highfill, Cupp, Loo, Nolan Stevens, and Bradley Loftin.

 

[Beretta.sixpack]

12 months from a new Baseball coach

I can see this happening....if we keep a few of the freshman that will naturally progress, get a few pieces from the portal, and keep the 4-5 guys going into MLB (which sounds better each day) then he should do pretty well next year....but man o man, if we dont host a regional or make it to a Super....at minimum one of those two things.....then you are correct.

 

[retire the banner]

Actually, more like top 15, if you're taking CWS appearances and then weighting titles a little bit heavier.

That's something our fans don't want to admit. And we recruit like a top 15 team too, rather than a top 5. And we won't, until we either produce more players in-state, get lucky with a great coach and/or create some financial niche that is uniquely ours.

Is there 5 more programs in the country that have the investment, facilities, and fan support we do?

Are you weighing things like USC baseball winning a bunch of titles in the 60s and 70s? Because they aren’t a better program than we are today. Programs outside of the SEC have a huge disadvantage in baseball - their fanbases do not care about the sport.

I agree we need to recruit better, but I think that’s a Lemonis problem, not a MSU baseball problem. We have an impressive amount of quality MLB players due to Cohen & Cannizzaro’s recruiting.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

12 months from a new Baseball coach

It should be 12 months ago we hired a new baseball coach. But for some reason, we just keep on plugging along.

 

[HuntDawg]

Is there 5 more programs in the country that have the investment, facilities, and fan support we do?

Are you weighing things like USC baseball winning a bunch of titles in the 60s and 70s? Because they aren’t a better program than we are today. Programs outside of the SEC have a huge disadvantage in baseball - their fanbases do not care about the sport.

I agree we need to recruit better, but I think that’s a Lemonis problem, not a MSU baseball problem. We have an impressive amount of quality MLB players due to Cohen & Cannizzaro’s recruiting.

If you are basing programs on faculties fan support and investment…. Thats like saying Texas am is the best college football program in america

just because we have top notch facilities and Fan support doesn’t make us a top 5 program. It just means we care a lot…

 

[retire the banner]

If you are basing programs on faculties fan support and investment…. Thats like saying Texas am is the best college football program in america

just because we have top notch facilities and Fan support doesn’t make us a top 5 program. It just means we care a lot…

Actually, more like top 15, if you're taking CWS appearances and then weighting titles a little bit heavier.

That's something our fans don't want to admit. And we recruit like a top 15 team too, rather than a top 5. And we won't, until we either produce more players in-state, get lucky with a great coach and/or create some financial niche that is uniquely ours.

Give me your top 10 college baseball programs/jobs. Because that’s what this is. College baseball is not what you did decades ago, that matters a little more in football. If you’re in the SEC, you have a massive advantage now over baseball programs in other conferences.

Programs like USC, Cal State Fullerton, Arizona State, Miami are toast. They will never return to what they were.



Here’s a list after ole miss won in ‘22. To me, the only programs that are head and shoulders above us are LSU, Texas, Vandy (due to their advantage with scholarships). After that you spilt hairs between programs like Florida, State, OM, Arkansas, Tennessee, A&M, North Carolina, FSU.

Our recruiting problems aren’t MSU related, they are Lemonis related. We are 100% a top 10 program. I’d argue we are 5th or so.

 

[HuntDawg]

Give me your top 10 college baseball programs/jobs. Because that’s what this is. College baseball is not what you did decades ago, that matters a little more in football. If you’re in the SEC, you have a massive advantage now over baseball programs in other conferences.

Programs like USC, Cal State Fullerton, Arizona State, Miami are toast. They will never return to what they were.



Here’s a list after ole miss won in ‘22. To me, the only programs that are head and shoulders above us are LSU, Texas, Vandy (due to their advantage with scholarships). After that you spilt hairs between programs like Florida, State, OM, Arkansas, Tennessee, A&M, North Carolina, FSU.

Our recruiting problems aren’t MSU related, they are Lemonis related. We are 100% a top 10 program. I’d argue we are 5th or so.

Florida is ahead of us… it’s not splitting hairs. They are.

again I don’t do the entire ranking 1-5 type thing. Im more of a tier guy. We are a bottom tier 1 type program And trending the wrong direction….problem is the top 3-4 teams in the upper tier are in the sec and there is a sizeable gap b/t us and them.

if every position was open today and you had to rank the order of best place to go current and future combined
1. Lsu
2. Texas am
3. Florida
4. Tennessee
5. Texas

with Florida state knocking on the door… we aren’t top 5

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Give me your top 10 college baseball programs/jobs. Because that’s what this is. College baseball is not what you did decades ago, that matters a little more in football. If you’re in the SEC, you have a massive advantage now over baseball programs in other conferences.

Programs like USC, Cal State Fullerton, Arizona State, Miami are toast. They will never return to what they were.



Here’s a list after ole miss won in ‘22. To me, the only programs that are head and shoulders above us are LSU, Texas, Vandy (due to their advantage with scholarships). After that you spilt hairs between programs like Florida, State, OM, Arkansas, Tennessee, A&M, North Carolina, FSU.

Our recruiting problems aren’t MSU related, they are Lemonis related. We are 100% a top 10 program. I’d argue we are 5th or so.

Define what the criteria is. Is it historical success? Overall status? Is it potential over the next 5 years or 10 years? Is it accomplishments over the last 5 years or 10 years?

 

[retire the banner]

Define what the criteria is. Is it historical success? Overall status? Is it potential over the next 5 years or 10 years? Is it accomplishments over the last 5 years or 10 years?

In my mind you can’t do this primarily by historical success. Sure, you need to prove you can win a championship, but you can’t start listing out national championships from the 70s or 80s and use that to determine rankings.

For example, Minnesota football has won more national championships than Georgia but Minnesota isn’t even a top 30 football program.

You also wouldn’t put Cal State Fullerton ahead of us, even though they won more titles and CWS appearances. The landscape has changed

I view it from the lens of if a new manager( let’s say Vitello) was hired with a blank slate at each program how much success could they have?

From that question, I think we are undoubtedly top 10. Vitello would probably have more success at MSU than he would at Florida State for the next decade. We have unwavering support and commitment in a sport where that matters because this isn’t football. In football, every school cares and commits because they have to - it’s the lifeblood.

Our facilities have to matter somewhat too, that would put us ahead of a program like Ole Miss.

 

[HuntDawg]

In my mind you can’t do this primarily by historical success. Sure, you need to prove you can win a championship, but you can’t start listing out national championships from the 70s or 80s and use that to determine rankings.

For example, Minnesota football has won more national championships than Georgia but Minnesota isn’t even a top 30 football program.

You also wouldn’t put Cal State Fullerton ahead of us, even though they won more titles and CWS appearances. The landscape has changed

I view it from the lens of if a new manager( let’s say Vitello) was hired with a blank slate at each program how much success could they have?

From that question, I think we are undoubtedly top 10. Vitello would probably have more success at MSU than he would at Florida State for the next decade. We have unwavering support and commitment in a sport where that matters because this isn’t football. In football, every school cares and commits because they have to - it’s the lifeblood.

Our facilities have to matter somewhat too, that would put us ahead of a program like Ole Miss.

Two things I disagree with

1. Facilities matter somewhat. They don’t near as much as people here want in to. Everyone in that top tier has amazing facilities. Some will even say ours aren’t the best. its Like houses, some mashions have 4 car garages and 8 bedrooms. Others have putting greens outside. as long as the house is big enough and has perks.. it’s fine.. and all schools we Are referencing have those now

2. Vitello would have more success here than fsu. Disagree big time. Florida state is an animal that pumps money into their baseball program… but also it’s in the acc. Doesn’t have to compete with the sec teams. He could build a powerhouse with An easier path to success at Florida state

 

[Perd Hapley]

Give me your top 10 college baseball programs/jobs. Because that’s what this is. College baseball is not what you did decades ago, that matters a little more in football. If you’re in the SEC, you have a massive advantage now over baseball programs in other conferences.

Programs like USC, Cal State Fullerton, Arizona State, Miami are toast. They will never return to what they were.



Here’s a list after ole miss won in ‘22. To me, the only programs that are head and shoulders above us are LSU, Texas, Vandy (due to their advantage with scholarships). After that you spilt hairs between programs like Florida, State, OM, Arkansas, Tennessee, A&M, North Carolina, FSU.

Our recruiting problems aren’t MSU related, they are Lemonis related. We are 100% a top 10 program. I’d argue we are 5th or so.

That list might as well be ancient history. Seriously. Its about as relevant as a list made in 2012, 2005, etc. That was the final year before NIL and the portal became fully entrenched in college baseball….and the biggest and wealthiest programs started figuring out how much they had left over from football and basketball that they could give to baseball.

The current overall list nationally is LSU, Florida, Florida State, Texas A&M, Texas, Tennessee in some order….and then everyone else.

Even if you go to the next tier down in the SEC, you’d have Arkansas and Vandy still ahead of us. And no, you can’t say Arkansas isn’t solidly ahead of us as a program simply because they dropped one routine foul pop-up 5 years ago. They’ve been better across the board for the better part of two decades besides that.

We’re in the next tier down in the SEC….in a tier with Ole Miss, South Carolina, and maybe Kentucky. I’d say we’re in the best shape of those 4 overall as of right now…..but Kentucky is getting better quickly.

Next tier is Auburn, UGA, and Oklahoma.

Bottom tier is Bama and Missouri.

That objectively puts us at about #8 in the 16-team SEC. Top half of the strongest league of the country. Not chopped liver by any means…..but also nowhere close to Top 5 in any rankings that exclude grill smoke and in-stadium residences as key evaluation criteria.

 

[retire the banner]

That list might as well be ancient history. Seriously. Its about as relevant as a list made in 2012, 2005, etc. That was the final year before NIL and the portal became fully entrenched in college baseball….and the biggest and wealthiest programs started figuring out how much they had left over from football and basketball that they could give to baseball.

The current overall list nationally is LSU, Florida, Florida State, Texas A&M, Texas, Tennessee in some order….and then everyone else.

Even if you go to the next tier down in the SEC, you’d have Arkansas and Vandy still ahead of us. And no, you can’t say Arkansas isn’t solidly ahead of us as a program simply because they dropped one routine foul pop-up 5 years ago. They’ve been better across the board for the better part of two decades besides that.

We’re in the next tier down in the SEC….in a tier with Ole Miss, South Carolina, and maybe Kentucky. I’d say we’re in the best shape of those 4 overall as of right now…..but Kentucky is getting better quickly.

Next tier is Auburn, UGA, and Oklahoma.

Bottom tier is Bama and Missouri.

That objectively puts us at about #8 in the 16-team SEC. Top half of the strongest league of the country. Not chopped liver by any means…..but also nowhere close to Top 5 in any rankings that exclude grill smoke and in-stadium residences as key evaluation criteria.

So now Tennessee is a better program than us and we’re in the same tier as Kentucky? That’s dumb as 17

 

[retire the banner]

That list might as well be ancient history. Seriously. Its about as relevant as a list made in 2012, 2005, etc. That was the final year before NIL and the portal became fully entrenched in college baseball….and the biggest and wealthiest programs started figuring out how much they had left over from football and basketball that they could give to baseball.

The current overall list nationally is LSU, Florida, Florida State, Texas A&M, Texas, Tennessee in some order….and then everyone else.

Even if you go to the next tier down in the SEC, you’d have Arkansas and Vandy still ahead of us. And no, you can’t say Arkansas isn’t solidly ahead of us as a program simply because they dropped one routine foul pop-up 5 years ago. They’ve been better across the board for the better part of two decades besides that.

We’re in the next tier down in the SEC….in a tier with Ole Miss, South Carolina, and maybe Kentucky. I’d say we’re in the best shape of those 4 overall as of right now…..but Kentucky is getting better quickly.

Next tier is Auburn, UGA, and Oklahoma.

Bottom tier is Bama and Missouri.

That objectively puts us at about #8 in the 16-team SEC. Top half of the strongest league of the country. Not chopped liver by any means…..but also nowhere close to Top 5 in any rankings that exclude grill smoke and in-stadium residences as key evaluation criteria.

 

[retire the banner]

Two things I disagree with

1. Facilities matter somewhat. They don’t near as much as people here want in to. Everyone in that top tier has amazing facilities. Some will even say ours aren’t the best. its Like houses, some mashions have 4 car garages and 8 bedrooms. Others have putting greens outside. as long as the house is big enough and has perks.. it’s fine.. and all schools we Are referencing have those now

2. Vitello would have more success here than fsu. Disagree big time. Florida state is an animal that pumps money into their baseball program… but also it’s in the acc. Doesn’t have to compete with the sec teams. He could build a powerhouse with An easier path to success at Florida state

Powerhouse Florida State that’s never won a title

 

[Perd Hapley]

So now Tennessee is a better program than us and we’re in the same tier as Kentucky? That’s dumb as 17

Tennessee has been the overall best program in the country for half a decade. Yes, they are currently better…..and they are about to have a sparkling new stadium, too.

Kentucky is not better than us, or as good. But they aren’t that far behind….and they are trending up. They have been active in recruiting and NIL. Two other programs still between us and them….but point being they are solidly above what UGA, Auburn, and Oklahoma are currently. Make them the best team in that tier, or the worst one in ours. Just splitting hairs at that point.

 

[HuntDawg]

Powerhouse Florida State that’s never won a title

Same could be said about us until 3 years ago… and many around here assumed we were that

minus the national championship Florida state drawfs us in every category. 24 trip to Omaha to our 13. 3 runner up finishes. Even if you want to say last 20 years.. they’ve been to Omaha 6 times to our 5. They had to go thru the transition from Martin much like we did with Polk… now Link looks to have them back rolling… but basically thru the years they’ve been a better program than us every step of the way.

theyve made a regional 51 times in the last 52 years……

again they’ve been a better program than us for the last 50 years… the last 20 years…. And they are very much trending up.

if don’t think fsu is a national power and can’t be built into something bigger… then i can’t help you

 

[Perd Hapley]

Powerhouse Florida State that’s never won a title

Coastal Carolina and Fresno State - both much higher level programs than FSU and Arkansas***

 

[onewoof]

There are plenty of things to be mad at Lemonis about, but not landing the big fish is not the thing. At least not historically. However, if you want to find out what's wrong with our program, you have to dig deeper. I'm talking from a very general viewpoint here, so don't try and throw out exceptions here and there.

For those of you old enough to remember...