Player of the game: 24 points (8 of 15 FG), 6 rebounds (4 offensive), 2 assists, 0 PF
Not bad coming off the bench.
Not bad coming off the bench.
Tolu Smith
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Meh. We went on a 10-0 when he was out to get up by 11. He comes back in and they cut it to 6. Bell comes back in and we extend it back to 13.
He scores points, but something is off. He’s a defensive liability imo
Appears to me we play better as a whole when he isn’t out there. Teams expose him defensively and we look better offensively when we are playing as a team. Not force feeding our star.
Are you just determined to **** on our best player?
Was Bell's 6 points in 14 minutes more important than Tolu's 24 in 25 minutes??
His FT issues and a few other things are annoying, but I'm damn sure glad he's on our team.
Tolu frustrates me at times with his finesse around the basket and inability to finish through contact, but he is a very good college post player and makes our team better. He is much better offensively than Bell. Tolu does have his defensive lapses and is a terrible FT shooter, but the good far outweighs the bad.
The 10-0 run also came with Hubbard on the bench. Talk about somebody who had a terrible game. Five points and four fouls. Thankfully, Tolu’s 24 points made up for Hubbard’s off night.
He was dominant in the first half, I think he had 18 at halftime. Second half was more about us just playing lights out defense and making a few clutch shots as a team.
Killing us? We've won 4 in a row and he's averaged 16 points and 9 rebounds in that stretch.
It's mind boggling to continually see how many MSU fans on here are straight up 17ing dummies when it comes to basketball basics.
There are a decent number of posters who consider this board their negative emotions release valve.
T
The collective basketball IQ of a lot of people on here is special needs level. They’ve never gotten above the “just play hard and things will work out” mentality.
So explain. Bell was +18 for the game. He only played 14 minutes. That means Tolu was -6 in 26 minutes. Obviously, it’s not usually that drastic but there is a reason Bell started. Tolu has mad offensive post move skills and is obviously our best scorer, but lacks in other areas. We feed him like he is Lebron. Tolu is also good for at least two horrible turnovers a game. IfTolu could just make 70% of his free throws, the plan might work.
To put the turnover problem in perspective, he leads our team in turnovers per game and is second overall in season turnovers behind Matthews. Tolu averages a turnover every 9 minutes he is on the Court. Thats atrocious. Cam averages a turnover every 15 minutes. DJ averages a turnover every 18 and a half minutes he is in the game. What’s mind boggling is people ***** about DJ and Cam not taking care of the ball, but it’s Tolu.
For what it’s worth the past two years Tolu averaged a turnover every 12 minutes (last year) and a turnover every 15 minutes (two years ago). So, while the team around him is certainly improving(and he’s been better overall), he has gotten worse at taking care of the ball.
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Probably going to win the Howell trophy and might be first team All SEC but we still have fans that don’t think he’s any good. Sounds about right.
Let's simplify this.
Tolu Smith is a really good basketball player. If you don't think so, you're wrong.
Tolu Smith is a really good basketball player. If you don't think so, you're wrong.
You forgot that coach needs to yell a lot during the game and show proper emotion in any post game presser. Full time nuclear mode is the key to coaching success.***
If we even get in and make a run in the tournament - or don't - will depend on Tolu.
Regardless of what some of you SPSers think, he's still our best player who needs to be at this best.
Let's hope Jans is coaching him up the right way.
Regardless of what some of you SPSers think, he's still our best player who needs to be at this best.
Let's hope Jans is coaching him up the right way.
Yes and no. Unless Tolu can make his free throws, he has hit his ceiling. I don’t think he will so we need other options.
We will advance in the tourney if Shaq and Keyshawn are right. Shaq has been dominant/near perfect these past 4 games and Keyshawn is coming on. We will see if they can do it against better competition.
While I dont think you have ever straight up said 'Tolu is not good', the overwhelming point across all your posts about basketball in general and Tolu specifically, would lead me to think you dont view Tolu as being a good player.
For the season, Matthews leads the team in Box Plus Minus(BPM). Hubbard is second, Tolu is third, and Bell is 12th.
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Tolu is way ahead of Bell on OBPM and one spot ahead of Bell on DBPM, for what its worth.
On a per40 basis, Tolu outscores Bell by 11 points, pulls down 1.7 fewer rebounds, dishes out .5 more assists, and blocks 1 less shot compared to Bell. This is while shooting almost 13% better than Bell.
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I cant speak to yesterday's BPM as the game stats arent loaded to sports-reference yet. What I can say is that BPM or an even more crude literal basic +/- ranking is well established as being pretty 17ing worthless when discussing a player's value to a team. Westbrook's '16-17 season showed the inherent flaws which is why it was so heavily changed.
But the real issue with it is how people use it to prove a point. It is an advanced stat that is meant to be used with a large volume of data. Instead, a single game's metrics are often used to 'prove' Player A is better than Player B, or whatever dumb argument the person that is misusing the statistic is trying to prove.
Basketball is littered with examples where Player X clearly had a better game from a statistical perspective compared to Player Y, but Player Y ends with a better BPM.
As for your complain that Tolu is turning the ball over at a high rate- his per40 TOV is 4.3 while Bell's per40 TOV is 3.5. So Tolu turns it over .8 more times per 40min while scoring 10.6 more points per 40min compared to Bell. Yeah, that is an obvious worthwhile tradeoff to anyone that can read 'advanced' stats or knows what they are seeing when watching a game.
2023-24 Men's Southeastern Conference Player Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
2023-24 Men's Southeastern Conference Player Stats
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- Tolu ranks 6th in PER for players with more than 200 minutes played. 6th! Bell ranks 62nd. Also worth noting that after Tolu, Matthews is 20th and Hubbard is 40th. Its not even close for PER.
- Tolu ranks 25th in BPM for players with more than 200 minutes played. Bell ranks 96th.
I am not knocking Bell here, even though I am highlighting that his advanced stats on a per40 basis and game basis are not as good as Tolu's. I love that Bell transferred to MSU and appreciate how he plays. I am only comparing because you decided to compare.
Bell was more effective than Tolu last night, especially the second half. Tolu was responsible for extending the lead in the first half but he was equally responsible for not defending and rebounding which allowed an Ole Miss lead (there were his turnovers and getting his shot blocked too). Jans chewed his *** a lot last night. A lot of good last night from our supporting cast, but THAT Ole Miss team should not have 15 offensive rebounds against us.For the season, Matthews leads the team in Box Plus Minus(BPM). Hubbard is second, Tolu is third, and Bell is 12th.
2023-24 Mississippi State Bulldogs Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Check out the detailed 2023-24 Mississippi State Bulldogs Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Tolu is way ahead of Bell on OBPM and one spot ahead of Bell on DBPM, for what its worth.
On a per40 basis, Tolu outscores Bell by 11 points, pulls down 1.7 fewer rebounds, dishes out .5 more assists, and blocks 1 less shot compared to Bell. This is while shooting almost 13% better than Bell.
2023-24 Mississippi State Bulldogs Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Check out the detailed 2023-24 Mississippi State Bulldogs Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
I cant speak to yesterday's BPM as the game stats arent loaded to sports-reference yet. What I can say is that BPM or an even more crude literal basic +/- ranking is well established as being pretty 17ing worthless when discussing a player's value to a team. Westbrook's '16-17 season showed the inherent flaws which is why it was so heavily changed.
But the real issue with it is how people use it to prove a point. It is an advanced stat that is meant to be used with a large volume of data. Instead, a single game's metrics are often used to 'prove' Player A is better than Player B, or whatever dumb argument the person that is misusing the statistic is trying to prove.
Basketball is littered with examples where Player X clearly had a better game from a statistical perspective compared to Player Y, but Player Y ends with a better BPM.
As for your complain that Tolu is turning the ball over at a high rate- his per40 TOV is 4.3 while Bell's per40 TOV is 3.5. So Tolu turns it over .8 more times per 40min while scoring 10.6 more points per 40min compared to Bell. Yeah, that is an obvious worthwhile tradeoff to anyone that can read 'advanced' stats or knows what they are seeing when watching a game.
Across the conference...2023-24 Men's Southeastern Conference Player Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
2023-24 Men's Southeastern Conference Player Stats
- Tolu ranks 6th in PER for players with more than 200 minutes played. 6th! Bell ranks 62nd. Also worth noting that after Tolu, Matthews is 20th and Hubbard is 40th. Its not even close for PER.
- Tolu ranks 25th in BPM for players with more than 200 minutes played. Bell ranks 96th.
I am not knocking Bell here, even though I am highlighting that his advanced stats on a per40 basis and game basis are not as good as Tolu's. I love that Bell transferred to MSU and appreciate how he plays. I am only comparing because you decided to compare.
Tolu is the best player on our team on the offensive end when he is his average self. For whatever reason, I have a bunch of theories, we haven't found Tolu’s fit on this year’s team. Force Feeding Tolu does nothing against a tourney level basketball team. He is not at that level. We have to get away from that. Play team basketball…team is starting to show up just like last year at this time.
+/- is a controversial stat across an entire 82-game NBA season. It is completely worthless on a game-by-game basis
Sports-reference has the OM game now.
For BPM, Bell isn't anywhere near as high as you claimed and Tolu isn't anywhere near as low as you claimed.
Maybe provide a link to the stats you are referring to so we can be on the same page?
Mississippi vs. Mississippi State Box Score (Men), February 21, 2024 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Mississippi vs. Mississippi State Box Score (Men), February 21, 2024
www.sports-reference.com
Again though, remember that isolated to a single game, the typically questionably worthless stat is actually very worthless.
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