Trevor Lawrence: intentionally concussed
- Thread starter onewoof
- Start date
Should have just let the Jacksonville players beat the sh*t out of that SOB.
The defender should have a multi game suspension and fine. QBs are the franchise.
Is fake sliding a penalty in the NFL yet? If so it should be, to give the defenders confidence to not come wreck a guy.
Is fake sliding a penalty in the NFL yet? If so it should be, to give the defenders confidence to not come wreck a guy.
Hate to see anyone get hurt, but Lawrence was still very upright when the defender started to go low for the tackle. He slid right into the collision….slid way too late. Its easy to fault the defender, but when you slow it down it was a bang-bang play and the defender committed to the tackle before Lawrence gave himself up.
Say what? He was well into his slide. That was a dirty play. He’s down well before the hit.
Yeah. It’s tough on defenders. He basically needs to get out of Lawrence’s way which goes against everything you’ve been taught as a LB.
BTW, Lawrence is trending towards a disappointment. Maybe he can get out of JAX and go though a Jared Geoff type revitalization.
You can’t judge anything from a still shot. What you can’t see is thar Shaair was moving like 18mph right toward Lawrence and had already started the act of lunging toward him before he started sliding.
Below are the still shots from the actual video. First image is the instant that Shaair begins to lunge forward towards Lawrence. As you can see, Lawrence has not even begun the slide. Both feet are still under him, and he’s still vertical.
2nd image is Shaair’s body already starting to tilt horizontal as the slide begins…he’d already pushed off the ground and propelled his body towards Lawrence. Less than 2 yards of space between them at this point, and Lawrence had still not given himself up yet.
3rd image is just a close up of the 2nd image….which clearly still shows daylight between Lawrence’s knee and the ground at a moment way after Shaair committed to the tackle. So he’s still a live target at this point.
It was a late slide….plain and simple.
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I think you have to have something like a halo around the QB when he gives himself up. For example, if you’re inside of 3 yards of the QB and you engage first, then it’s a clean hit with no penalty….provided that its not a targeting play where you are launching at the upper body. Outside of 3 yards (or whatever is deemed an acceptable distance) its a penalty even if you engage first as the defender.
You simply can’t take away the ability of a defender to make a play once he gets within a certain critical distance of the ball carrier. Its like if there’s a driver and a front seat passenger in a Buick that doesn’t even have brakes. The passenger tells the driver, “Drive 20mph, aim the center of the grill right at this traffic cone you’re driving towards, and try to hit it with the damn hood ornament. But if I say “swerve”, immediately try to NOT hit the cone. But you don’t know if I’m going to say “swerve” or not, so you have to assume you need to hit it until you hear otherwise”. Then, when the front of the vehicle is less than 6 feet from the cone, passenger says “swerve”. Can the driver react in time? Absolutely not. Zero percent chance.
Sure, anyone can find one still frame of any play to defend their position, but how many 10ths of a second was that at full game speed?
No more intent there than the targeting call against UT that was overturned last night…
Was there a real need to put a forearm to the facemask like that?
The forearm being there was the only thing preventing it from being helmet to helmet. And he was going low before Lawrence started the slide, so it wasn’t intended to land on the facemask. Lawrence should have started the slide much sooner, or not at all.
ETA: Here’s what I’m talking about.
First image shows the point of contact. Note that the very top of Shaair’s helmet is about even with the top of the big zero on the 40 yard line marker, and right on the yellow line.
And below is an edited version of the first image in the previous post, with a red dot showing the eventual point of impact above. Look how much lower the target point was than Lawrence’s head at the time he began the tackle. Clear case of a QB sliding into a bad hit. Shouldn’t have even been a penalty.
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You didn’t see the same replay of that forearm that nailed the facemask as I did but whatever.
I'm going to go with the 60 players that saw it live and do this 7 days a week for a living. I think they know the player and what the F it was. Just seems better than internet sleuths on a 6 inch screen
I’m pretty sure I did there, my guy. I wasn’t blindfolded when I was snapping those video shots.
Defender was bracing for unexpected impact with a helmet. What was the alternative? He just puts his arms behind his back and makes it even worse by going helmet to helmet or shoulder pads to helmet?
There were actually more like 120 players that saw it. Only 60ish that were up-in-arms about it were on the same team as the QB….unsurprisingly. Including Evan Engram, who said in the postgame he saw it out of his “peripheral vision” and that he knew it was dirty….which is a bit silly.
And to be clear, I don’t blame any Jags players at all for going to bat for their QB. It was certainly close enough that in real time you’d think there could have been unquestioned malicious intent. Especially with all the testosterone and competitive emotions of an NFL football environment. But that doesn’t mean there actually was.
The QB is down as soon as he starts the slide not when he hits the ground. Any motion toward a slide means the QB is down. He starts the slide at the 46, so he’s down at the 46. The first down is the 44 and the defender is at the 42. That is not a late slide in today’s NFL. Not saying it’s an easy play for the defender to stop, but he made no effort. And even led with his forearm to the helmet. It was a very malicious hit.
Yeah, I’m kinda surprised the Texans didn’t clear their bench to assault Lawrence for his blatant targeting.
Aight, man. Whatever. You’re screenshots aren’t from the same video I‘m referring to but if you think that forearm is going out for anything other than violence, there’s no need to engage further.
He absolutely did not start the slide at the 46. Go look at the images above. When he’s at the 45.5 yard line, with front foot maybe 1’ away from the 45 yard line, he still had not started the slide yet. Both feet still under him. By the time he extended a leg (and before the knee went down), his extended foot was nearly at the 44 yard line, and the defender was at the 43 at this point (not the 42).
Where the first down line is doesn’t really matter.
He was at the 43, or damn close to it. A lot closer than he was to the 42.
You can’t make an effort to stop. Literally my entire point. The human brain and body don’t have the reaction time or ability to defy physics to make trajectory adjustments at that speed with only milliseconds of notice. It’s literally 17ing impossible. Whatever the defender did with his body was cognitively determined by the defender way before Lawrence gave himself up.
He was making a football tackle aimed towards his midsection area (the ONLY place you’re allowed to hit anyone anymore) before the slide. You have to lead with your arms, helmet, or shoulder pads (including the chest portion of the shoulder pads) with any tackle. If he didn’t hit him with his arm, it was going to be the helmet or the shoulder pads, which would have been even worse as both are harder than human tissue.
That doesn’t show anything different than the video I showed above. aGAIN, what are the defenders arms supposed to do on tackles? Just dangle behind them and let the helmet or shoulder pads hit whatever? Have you ever played football, or just in general tried to tackle or wrestle a person down in your day to day life? If so, how often was the first part of your body to touch the person NOT one of your hands or arms?
And also, is Scott Mitchell (whoever the 17 that is) supposed to be some subject matter expert on both the human nervous system as well as NFL tackling technique? Does he have time to do all that while still maintaining his MAGA-bro social media persona? Why the hell should anyone listen to him?
I’m not real sure… I didn’t read past where you said he started the slide at the 45.5 yard line, in response to me saying 46. I’m not this embedded or passionate about this topic to break down a post like you made. I don’t agree with you and the majority of the world does not agree with you but I’ll agree to disagree with you.
Whenever the quarterback did when he started to slide, it went completely out the window when the tackler threw the forearm.
That’s fine, but I didn’t say he started at the 45.5. I said it was real clear he still had NOT started the slide at the 45.5 (when he was even further down the field than you said he was when he started).
What even constitutes the slide starting anyway? If its the extended leg, then his butt was at the 45, end of his extended leg at the 44, and the defender was at the 43. And no part of his body was down at this point. If you think a defender playing full speed can change course at that close of range, then you’re right, we will have to agree to disagree. Nobody except Shaair will ever know for sure if there was malice intended, but some type of collision was unavoidable.
I went and looked at the play by play stats on espn app, which says they spotted the ball at the 45. As for what constitutes a slide, the rule book says once a QB starts the slide or simulates going to the ground. Sounds like a judgement call but I think most people would generally agree he started the slide around the 45 or 46 yard line…. Or maybe the 45.5
"Nobody except Shaair will ever know for sure if there was malice intended, but some type of collision was unavoidable."
Well other than the 100,000,000 or so who have seen the film. LOL Makes me wonder if Booth was trying to kill Lincoln or just wound him....guess we'll never know.
Well other than the 100,000,000 or so who have seen the film. LOL Makes me wonder if Booth was trying to kill Lincoln or just wound him....guess we'll never know.
To me it looks like he throws his arm up to keep from driving a shoulder or his head into him. He puts his arm up when TL begins his slide.
Tough call. but, yes, only Shaair knows for sure.
Tough call. but, yes, only Shaair knows for sure.
To me those still shots make it look way worse. Looks like he's far enough away that he could do a lot to minimize the collision at the point Lawrence started sliding, even if it's not completely avoidable.
In real time though it looked like it wasn't too terrible except for the forearm shiv. He pulls his arms back to make it look like he's at least trying to avoid it and it would maybe be a penalty, but not look particularly egregious. As it was, it looks like he just never even considered the fact that he was sliding. Whether it was because he's a dirty player or reckless or because he just didn't register it as a slide is hard to say. I think they're going to have to come down on him hard though regardless of whether it was an innocent mistake or a dirty play, because it is hard to make a snap decision to pull back like that when everything is moving so fast and if there isn't a significant penalty, there just isn't enough incentive to offset the reduction in speed/aggressiveness to be able to pull back at that last second.
Hit was first with the forearm to the chin, something this player has obviously done before (guessing there is film of it from previous games while he was a LB at Florida Atlantic)
Update: Azeez is now the victim, not Lawrence. Azeez played both the race victim card and Islamic victim card. Not sure most people even saw what color Azeez was or what religion he followed when they reacted to a high hit on a QB going down. Would have been the same if he had knocked out another QB of any color and any religion. Weak to play the victim, not a man like response.
I don't really see this as playing the race card. Playing the race card would be, "Yall only care because he's white and I am a black Muslim!" He just told the media and everyone else that was coming at him - including racists, etc. - to 17 off because they don't know what's in his heart.
Actually, the apology I saw seemed pretty sincere. He just has to learn to not make that hit.
You have totally clowned yourself in this thread.
His own coach said it was a dirty play and "we don't teach that." The guy issued a half-assed apology today where he blamed "islamophobia" and "racism." He's gonna get suspended for at least the rest of the season. And given the other crap he's pulled this year, that's not enough.
I'm no fan of Trevor Lawrence but I can see this for what it was.
I tend to always side with the defensive player in these situations, because it's too damn hard to play defense these days.
(See State's defense)
I take back my comment about the apology sounding sincere if he's a repeat offender.
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