Two horrible days for Boudin…

[johnson86-1]

Interesting take. It is in conflict with a Christian worldview, which is fine, but when I look around at the atrocities in the world it certainly seems to me that we have a huge capacity to do bad and have to be trained to do good. Of course settling on a solid definition of bad/good is not without its own issues. Regardless, I had to teach my kids not to be selfish, which included: not lying, not taking things that weren't theirs, sharing things that were theirs, not hurting others to get what they want, etc. They came into this world dead set on doing all the bad things and had to learn to be good.

Fallen/imperfect and evil/bad are not equivalent. It's hard to say what people are "inherently" as we're social animals and are going to be socialized in one way or another, but if people are inherently bad, how was there anybody there to teach anybody anything other than being bad?

I've always thought this story was cool, and it I think at least proves that people aren't just a bad accident away from reverting to some hobbesian nightmare.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months

I think maybe a counterpoint is that while we may not be inherently bad, we do appear to be inherently tribal, and apply very different moral intuitions depending on whether we're dealing with people we view as part of our "tribe" or not.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Yeah, we have some serious issues with our incarceration rates in the US as compared to other countries, but there is no simple solution. I doubt we'd get enough agreement on what is broken among lawmakers to make for meaningful reform.

 

[johnson86-1]

I think the biggest problem the would-be reformers have is there's no real alternative to our crappy prison system. It's right to say it's dumb to send petty criminals to gang-run prison hellholes, but Boidin found out what else are you gonna do?

There is a real alternative, it's just that prosecutor is not the elected position to implement reform. The prosecutor's job is to prosecute. A reasonable prosecutor can certainly try to help make sure they identify good candidates for reform and/or drug treatment and/or mental health treatment, but they generally cant establish things like drug courts and effective diversion programs or mental health treatment resources.

Also, California may be an exception, but it generally takes more than a little bit of work by petty criminals to get sent to gang-run prison hell holes.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

I'm glad you linked that article. I'm actually a fan of both Greenwald and Weiss.

But this comment:



is precisely why the progressive agenda should be ferried out to Alcatraz. If you can't see what happened in that 7 hour school board meeting, in which a gay white man was discriminated against because he was white, then you simply cannot be helped.

The thing is, i dont think the people at a school board meeting is REPRESENTATIVE of the whole. It's the wackos that show up to those things, and speak out over and over, generally. And that applies to all sides in all of America. The voting board members should have told the attendees that they here their concerns but they disagree, because valid reasons. That they wouldn't says more about them and our system than what the wackiest peeps at a meeting said.

And this all ties directly in to Bari Weiss. The NYT exists, it's stated reason for existing, is to stake out a centrist position and say "this and no further". To attack anyone outside of their narrowly written centrist bounds of acceptable opinion. And Bari Weiss was a natural at it, constantly defying reason by finding some outlier lefty and tarring the whole movement, then when rightly and rationally criticized for her bullcrap argument, to play the victim and whine about the meanie partisans and how theyre trying to cancel her, and never ever address her mistakes or how the partisans may have a point.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

Or maybe that threat of sending petty criminals to gang-run prison hellholes could actually be used to, I don't know, curb petty criminals from robbing every Walgreens in the metroplex

Link isn't working for me.

I don't think a threat that you have no intention of following through on is going to do much on overall crime.

Generally, you send people to US prison, they come out as worse criminals. If we can stop that, the rest will fall into place.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I believe you nailed our complexity.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

There is a real alternative, it's just that prosecutor is not the elected position to implement reform. The prosecutor's job is to prosecute. A reasonable prosecutor can certainly try to help make sure they identify good candidates for reform and/or drug treatment and/or mental health treatment, but they generally cant establish things like drug courts and effective diversion programs or mental health treatment resources.

Also, California may be an exception, but it generally takes more than a little bit of work by petty criminals to get sent to gang-run prison hell holes.

I agree, and from what little I've looked at it, it appears Boudin does too. He ran on prosecuting police misconduct, and de-emphasizing petty drug and property crimes. He did that. Now partly people are mad because property crime is up. They appear (going by that Atlantic article) to be mad that drug use is visible now, not so much that users aren't being aggressively prosecuted. Also, Asian Americans appear to be mad at perceived bias from the school board?

I think nearly all jails are gang-run prison hell holes these days. Not my area of expertise though.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

What can I say, man, I just totally disagree when it comes to the left. I don't disagree with all you say regarding the right, I'll say that. But one side can't be invincible. I think jealousy/envy are one big tenant/motivator of the left.

I think your view of the left is heavily skewed, it certainly does not apply to myself and I am very lefty. I definitely see a determined national effort to magnify the extremists and hold them up as representative of "the left". "Wokeism" is often stoked by Democrats who want votes but also want to enable conservative economics to please their donors.

But then my preferred candidates never win primaries, and i sure dont understand zoomers, so who knows? Am I the outlier, and Fox News' depiction of the left the truth? Maybe, but I doubt it.

 

[harrybollocks]

Rob Henderson's an interesting guy and someone worth reading. It's so easy to position oneself as virtuous and totally supportive of the latest moral certainty when you don't have skin in the game. Put on some Jimmy Choo heels and head to the protest. I saw some super awesome BLM signs in a a nice, pretty-much all white Boston neighborhood full of million dollar homes. Defunding the police, another luxury belief, was one of the dumbest ideas. The results of that policy, and these soft-on-crime DA's, is more dead non-whites and people in poor neighborhoods being terrorized by criminals.

 

[harrybollocks]

It's always a good day to get Boudin from Nunu's along with their pork and steen's sausage.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

Rob Henderson's an interesting guy and someone worth reading. It's so easy to position oneself as virtuous and totally supportive of the latest moral certainty when you don't have skin in the game. Put on some Jimmy Choo heels and head to the protest. I saw some super awesome BLM signs in a a nice, pretty-much all white Boston neighborhood full of million dollar homes. Defunding the police, another luxury belief, was one of the dumbest ideas. The results of that policy, and these soft-on-crime DA's, is more dead non-whites and people in poor neighborhoods being terrorized by criminals.

The results in Uvalde have a bone to pick with those that trash defunding the police.

 

[harrybollocks]

Defunding the police is a dumb idea. A truly stupid idea. The Uvalde police were incompetent and disgraceful. Fire them and replace them with competent people. We do that with incompetent employees and coaches. We don't defund them and expect it to be better.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

Defunding the police is a dumb idea. A truly stupid idea. The Uvalde police were incompetent and disgraceful. Fire them and replace them with competent people. We do that with incompetent employees and coaches. We don't defund them and expect it to be better.

Most people would say funding a SWAT team that is part time so can't respond to emergencies is dumb, and should be defunded. The police are OVERfunded, clearly, and no smart person would rather keep that level of funding while simultaneously not funding the community. The Uvalde PD was 40% of the city budget, and didn't do ****! That should be a wake up call to listen, not to call everyone else dumb and stupid.

 

[paindonthurt]

You nailed the problem

The same thought process that got us to “petty” and “hate” crimes is the thought process that got us “here”.

We started worrying about everyone’s feelings.

 

[harrybollocks]

"Most people": like you'd know that

OVERfunded: half caps are awesome
"not funding the community": that's meaningless b.s.
"That should be a wake up call to listen": se above

Take this weakass performative horseshit to some Robin DiAngelo fanboy site.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

"Most people": like you'd know that

OVERfunded: half caps are awesome
"not funding the community": that's meaningless b.s.
"That should be a wake up call to listen": se above

Take this weakass performative horseshit to some Robin DiAngelo fanboy site.

So you have no problem with the funding of the Uvalde PD, and it's subsequent performance? That's exactly what you are happy to spend your tax dollars on, and you expect nothing more?

 

[harrybollocks]

smh

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

smh

That's what I thought. All bark, no bite. Run along little boy.

 

[harrybollocks]

I fear you dude. Too much of a big brain. That brain is scary logical. The push to defund the police has been thoroughly discredited. It's to defund it nationally and not referring to some locale that has an incompetent police force or at least incompetent leadership. And Defuding the police isn't about reevaluating whether some obscure dept spends too much money. Might as well defund college baseball because some teams sucked.

"So you have no problem with the funding of the Uvalde PD, and it's subsequent performance?"
I actually said to fire incompetent people but that big brain of yours and your top-flight reading comprehension skills can't be wrong, I guess.

"That's exactly what you are happy to spend your tax dollars on, and you expect nothing more?" I'm so happy to spend tax dollars on this. I'm literally ecstatic. Never been happier to spend money on the Uvalde police dept and SWAT team. It brings me such joy. Wait, none of my money goes to them and I didn't actually write that and it's not true. But you are the best at reading comprehension, interpretating basic English, and not inventing views that others don't actually have that you prefer to argue against. Too brilliant, dude. Too brilliant. I better run away. Please stop. You're gonna ruin my happiness.

 

[harrybollocks]

"Not my area of expertise though."
No need to be an expert. It would be nice if your posts demonstrated a basic understanding of the issues other than prisons have gangs and some criminals leave worse off. True to a degree but also they went in as criminals and remained criminals. Criminals often remain criminals even when they don't go to prison. But, they do get sent there to prevent them from terrorizing others and as punishment for breaking laws. I tend to support that even with the gang situation. It is weird that prison society, a place with a lot of gang members, has a gang problem. Who would guess that. Maybe some afternoon tea and crumpets could help change the culture in those places. Or maybe we should defund prisons. Yes. Defund prisons. Defund prison guards too. That should help poor communities.

Murder is up in San Fran as are violent attacks on citizens, especially on Asian Americans, and petty theft too. And who in the hell wants open drug use (something you don't see where it's legalized in Europe) and **** and piss on streets from all the homeless, mentally ill and drug addicts on the streets.

I guess this comment form a former (she got recalled) VP of the San Fran school board caused some Asian Americans "to be mad at perceived bias from the school board": "[FONT=&quot]The vice president of the San Francisco Board of Education once wrote a long Twitter thread accusing Asian Americans of using "white supremacist thinking to assimilate and 'get ahead,'" and comparing them to a "house n****r" (she added the asterisks and did not spell out the word)." She's a total outlier as VP of the school board, though. Silly Asian Americans and their perceptions of bias. So unprogressive of them. They should also be happy that standardized tests and merit-based admission standards have been tossed out the window. It's not like Asian Americans have used education to move into the middle and upper-class. They need to improve their ability to perceive things correctly.

FYI, I've got a bit to time. Bring it if you're up for it.

[/FONT]

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

I fear you dude. Too much of a big brain. That brain is scary logical. The push to defund the police has been thoroughly discredited. It's to defund it nationally and not referring to some locale that has an incompetent police force or at least incompetent leadership. And Defuding the police isn't about reevaluating whether some obscure dept spends too much money. Might as well defund college baseball because some teams sucked.

"So you have no problem with the funding of the Uvalde PD, and it's subsequent performance?"
I actually said to fire incompetent people but that big brain of yours and your top-flight reading comprehension skills can't be wrong, I guess.

"That's exactly what you are happy to spend your tax dollars on, and you expect nothing more?" I'm so happy to spend tax dollars on this. I'm literally ecstatic. Never been happier to spend money on the Uvalde police dept and SWAT team. It brings me such joy. Wait, none of my money goes to them and I didn't actually write that and it's not true. But you are the best at reading comprehension, interpretating basic English, and not inventing views that others don't actually have that you prefer to argue against. Too brilliant, dude. Too brilliant. I better run away. Please stop. You're gonna ruin my happiness.

Doesn't take a big brain to know defund the police refers to maybe it would be better to not spend money like Uvalde did. A position you agree with. So maybe you should explain why you disagree with yourself?

I wrote elsewhere in this thread that the problem wasn't dumb people. It was people that could not bear to ever admit the other side had a bit of a point. You fit that to a T.

 

[harrybollocks]

The NYT is centrist because it says so. Good one.

 

[harrybollocks]

That's actually not what Defund the Police means. It's a theoretical position that has a pedigree on the Left. It's not new. It's o.k. to read and find out about it. It doesn't mean "don't spend money like Uvalde did." It doesn't mean don't fund bad policing. You don't have to support defunding the police to not want money wasted and misspent. I'm not at all surprised you're ignorant of this. Or, as I suspect, you're just not all that honest when called out on your abstract ********, vague generalizations
and absurd mischaracterizations of someone else's views.

"It was people that could not bear to ever admit the other side had a bit of a point"
I did agree that there are gangs in prison. So much for the T in me. You nailed it again.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

That's actually not what Defund the Police means. It's a theoretical position that has a pedigree on the Left. It's not new. It's o.k. to read and find out about it. It doesn't mean "don't spend money like Uvalde did." It doesn't mean don't fund bad policing. You don't have to support defunding the police to not want money wasted and misspent. I'm not at all surprised you're ignorant of this. Or, as I suspect, you're just not all that honest when called out on your abstract ******** and vague generalizations.

"It was people that could not bear to ever admit the other side had a bit of a point"
I did agree that there are gangs in prison. So much for the T in me. You nailed it again.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[harrybollocks]

Damn. Check mate. I know you believe that, btw. It's obvious from those thoughtful posts of yours.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Well, on the right it's more of THOSE people are inherently bad, MY people are inherently good. Those people are lazy, but my people will step up and feed them by charity, thus we don't need welfare (my money going to those people). Those people need strict policing, but my people (corps, cops, etc) can self-regulate. (Yes, race plays into this, but it's hardly just that. Racism can't explain persistent resistance to business regulation. Religion too, those people aren't saved so aren't inherently good, my people are saved so they're inherently good.)

Eta: people are inherently good, so let them decide how to spend welfare money, they'll make better decisions than the govt.

What a crock of ****!