Since JWS took over in 1991, MSST is 195 - 190 - 2. That is roughly a 6-6 record on average since 1991 until now. We all need to come to the realization that any bowl season is a good season. Also since 1991, there have only been 2 10 win seasons, 3 9 win seasons, & 6 8 win seasons. Everything else has been 7 or less. Also in that stretch, have been 7 3 win seasons. We are what our record says we are, which is an average Power 5 team that will make it to a bowl most seasons & a major bowl about every 6 - 8 years. All the griping and complaining about offenses and lack of 5 star players, etc, etc isn't going to change that. Understanding that we've had 5 head coaches during that span & results are a .503 winning percentage. It is what it is!!!!!
Unrealistic Expectations - Fact Check
- Thread starter Prince of Darkness
- Start date
Loser mentality brings losing records.
While the overall numbers average to what you are stating, we can all agree that MSU had a changing of mentality in 1998 (SEC West Champs) and then brought in a coach (eventually, post Croom self-"probation" years) that had us thinking we can compete with anybody and actually became #1 in the country.
So, yeah...trying to take that bitter medicine you offered doesn't jive.
While the overall numbers average to what you are stating, we can all agree that MSU had a changing of mentality in 1998 (SEC West Champs) and then brought in a coach (eventually, post Croom self-"probation" years) that had us thinking we can compete with anybody and actually became #1 in the country.
So, yeah...trying to take that bitter medicine you offered doesn't jive.
I'll take the bitter pill.
I just want us to beat OM every year. EVERY YEAR!
and to have a team with a better record than OM every year. EVERY YEAR!
I just want us to beat OM every year. EVERY YEAR!
and to have a team with a better record than OM every year. EVERY YEAR!
What's our record since 2009? I'll save you the trouble - 101-75. The program has changed even since Sherrill was here.
That's a little skewed. I would argue that the 2001 - 2008 years were the exception, not part of the rule. For the 10 years 1991-2000, we averaged 6.7-4.8-0.2 (.581) and for the 13 years from 2009-2021, we averaged 7.3-5.4 (.572). I think that's more representative of our program historically.
Ok, even with that its still only a 7-5 average. Which is exactly where we are most likely headed this season
The money and the prominence of the SEC has changed substantially since then. That has to be considered.
So the question is do we stay complacent with 7-5 and say that's our place in the SEC society?
I'd settle for just beating them.
All I'm stating are the facts of what our record is. Folks act like this season is a travesty. Its the average season for MSU football. I can remember not going to a bowl.
The Woebegone Bulldogs Effect us Older Alums know versus The Lake Wobegon Effect of the We're the Above Average Bulldogs the Younger Alums think...
Damn I love internet balls demanding we step it up as a program and they don't give any $$$ to get better players.
But DEMAND BETTER online, that is the best strategy. Or stop attending games. That will learn em.
But DEMAND BETTER online, that is the best strategy. Or stop attending games. That will learn em.
Stay complacent? What's our option? Win the power ball and give all the money to BI?
We are who we are. Unless we get a Phil Knight injection of cash, nothing will change. I don't understand why people don't understand that.
We have a smaller fanbase compared to our peers. We have a smaller checkbook compared to our peers. Starkville is what it is. Yet some people think we are going to compete with the top half of SEC. Newsflash...we will catch lightning in a bottle once every 20 years and have a good run. Outside of that, expect 6-7 wins.
I think the issue with our current state is we have a coach that seems like he DGAF. And for some - that attitude makes it hard to get behind him. I'm in the position of we should never fire a coach who keeps us above .500. because like you said - I remember the 80's and the croom years. But I can't fault someone for saying we can't be complacent.
When you join the Church of @aTotal360 one of the first things you learn is never to drink the Kool-Aid...
I know who doesn't have that attitude and he currently resides in Mississippi.
Kiffin's success certainly plays a role in the unrest. If Ole Miss was 3-7 right now - we probably wouldn't care as much.
And those that want to change it for consistent 10 win seasons donate $2M for NIL!
Not just that. Losing to teams with more resources etc. is understandable. All I want is to be the least little bit competitive against those teams instead of getting off the bus and the game is already over.
I used to get all up in the air about "changing the narrative" and "not accepting mediocrity", but that's where we usually end up no matter how upset or emotionally involved I get. Throughout the course of my 54 years I've learned that Mississippi State and Ole Miss do not handle prosperity at all. Ole Miss might be riding a wave right now, but they will eventually return to 7-5 right there with us. We're stepping stones. It's what we are. The pretentious elite level legend in his own mind Ole Miss fan will never accept that, but they are.
I really have two MSU football season pipe dreams. Scenario 1) Both teams go into the Egg Bowl undefeated and we beat them handily to spoil something for them and Scenario 2) We are undefeated going into the Egg Bowl, they are winless, and we pile on with a huge win and they retain their coach.
Before someone drones on about only Ole Miss matters, that is not true. In both scenarios our success would bring national significance. And I'm not one of these folks that lets a loss to Ole Miss ruin a decent/good season for me.
Indeed. Misery loves company. We would be perfectly content with 6-6/7-5 as long as they were in the same boat.
Fans hate our ****** regressing offense and losing to OM & KY and blowing a game at LSU.
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Not firing a coach is not complacency. We can't afford to pull an Auburn and fire every coach that proves they're not the next Saban. Leach's tenure has been disappointing (not so much record but in that in year three we still can't move the ball on a solid SEC defense), but he's doing enough that we're not moving backwards (I think; I'm a little concerned about DL recruiting, but I'm not sure that's a Leach issue versus a NIL issue).
We've not better off burning $15M to pay him to go away so that we can then go hire another coach that likely isn't going to do better than 7-5 or 8-4.
I think he retires after next season. Schedule sets up as well as it ever will. He will either get bored with 7 wins being his ceiling or prove to himself he can be very successful in the SEC. Either way, he hangs it up and bounces to Key West.
We've had to pay one semi-significant buyout in our history (Moorhead). We sit on close to $20MM a year in rainy day funds. We can buyout Leach today if we want. But we don't an AD to do it and won't. Leach is coming back. So, I welcome anyone to show me where we've succeeded waiting out coaches over our history. Jackie Sherrill is about it. There's a reason other schools are better at football. They don't drag *** and believe they have do things they've done for 100 years. They push it. AL is about to go get two new coordinators. AU isn't screwing around. LSU paid an insane buyout and upgraded. TN upgraded. Makes no sense to wait around. Empty stadiums cost money. But, this round, we're kinda stuck or it would probably happen.
I think as fans we need to look at this program as a 7 and 5 program instead of thinking we should win 9 or 10. I wish we would but we can't blow it up over a few 7 and 5 seasons. Starting over is a bad idea. I can't live thru those 3 and 9 seasons anymore.
The fact that OM is beating us on the field, in recruiting, in the portal, and playing well against Bama when we look impotent defiantly plays into this conversation.
Leach is a ton of fun when we win......its just as maddening when we lose.
Leach is a ton of fun when we win......its just as maddening when we lose.
Our record, including this year is 601-575-37 (17 of those wins were taken away from us). But historically - no cherry picking years - we are a 6-6 team.
And that's a fact.
And that's a fact.
This is correct, but incomplete. Our financial situation at Mississippi State vs all of college football has greatly improved. But within the SEC it's still the same.
I get irrational about our football team during the games. But once it’s over, the calm returns. While Texas A&M has proven you can do less with more, I have not seen anyone truly prove you can do more with less consistently unless they are cheating (which is really not a thing anymore I guess.)
This is from a few years ago, but is the national ranking of the athletic budgets of SEC schools. Pretty much what it looks like every year in terms of the pecking order.
- No. 2 — Texas A&M — $211,960,034
- No. 5 — Alabama — $174,307,419
- No. 6 — Georgia — $157,852,479
- No. 8 — Florida — $149,165,475
- No. 9 — LSU — $147,744,233
- No. 10 — Auburn — $147,511,034
- No. 11 — Tennessee — $145,653,191
- No. 16 — South Carolina — $136,032,845
- No. 17 — Kentucky — $130,706,744
- No. 19 — Arkansas — $129,680,808
- No. 24 — Ole Miss — $117,834,511
- No. 31 — Mississippi State — $100,062,237
- No. 32 — Missouri — $97,848,195
- Vanderbilt does not disclose financial information
So if we are being honest with ourselves, every year we do not end up in last place in the SEC West, our coaches/players have outperformed us as fans (donors) at some level. We finish 4th-6th in the West every year. Every school in the SEC West except for us and Alabama has ended up in the cellar over the last 10 years. Yet we are dead last in budget every year.
Like most things in life, the guy I look at in the mirror every morning is more responsible for my failures than anyone else. I should give more. We all should. But instead we blame somebody else (coaches in this case) for our mediocrity. We don't need billion dollar donors. If 15,500 (10% of living alumni) loyal Bulldog fans pledged $100 per month to NIL, we too would have $20 million a year in NIL funds to help pull in a top recruiting class... Instead we whine and blame.
How long do you really think we've let coaches hang around when we shouldn't?
We fired Moorhead at the right time (well, within a couple of months of it). He was ****** and he was clearly moving the program backwards.
We fired Croom two or three years too late. Not sure that was a poor mississippi state attitude or a scared of racism charges attitude. But yes, that was a mistake that held us back.
We hung on to Sherrill one season longer than we should have. But he had already had two 3 win seasons before bouncing back and us hitting our peak, so it wasn't crazy to think he was capable of bouncing back. And even then Sherrill only had three losing seasons before stepping down. It's not like we let him hang out for a decade. If you are arguing that he should have been fired two years earlier than he was, you would be arguing that we fire our winningest coach in history after winning 7, 8, 10, 8, and 3 games in the prior 5 years. That's just not realistic, or at least it wasn't at the time.
Anything prior to Sherrill is pretty much irrelevant at this point. Just completely different environment. Granted we obviously wasted opportunity after opportunity and had lots of self inflicted wounds, but it's not like we have just crippled ourselves in the modern era by waiting too long to fire coaches.
Completely agree, however, you can do pretty well with the money we now have. I'd say that we used to be poor to lower middle class with no real fear of not eating, but sometimes it might be vienna sausage. We are rich now by comparison and will only ever have to eat vienna sausage for nostalgia sake. i.e. I have no idea how much practical difference it makes that have $100M vs those with 1.5x or even 2x. I think NIL size might be a better measuring stick going forward. Of course this is not my area of expertise anywhere in my life except on SPS!
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