Unrealistic Expectations - Fact Check
- Thread starter Prince of Darkness
- Start date
By way of further extrapolation (and I'm counting results on the field so the '93 Bama game is a loss):
1991-2000, 2009-present: 167-124-2
2001-2008: 29-65
Mississippi State football effectively sabotaged itself for eight solid seasons, which skews the data considerably.
But that coach who took us to number 1 didn’t do better than the current coach given the same amount of time. Especially if you factor in an all sec 2020 schedule
We should not.
At the same time, we should not become the university that shows a coach the door every 2-3 years. That is never going to be enough time to build a program, and despite what people say, yes it still matters a great deal.
Will take way more than that! TAMU spent 30 Million and are in last place getting beats 2 years straight by our horrible coach****
1- Many teams allow time to build! Sorry that doesn't represent your list.
1- AL also pays a staff of about 9892 people to beat the teams they play. We don't have that money!
2- AU has been a dumpster fire since Newton. And are now on what is about to be their 4th coach since then.
3- LSU has way more than we do with a much better history! We are not on that level.
4- Tn has been in no man's land for 2 decades from changing out coaches every 2 to 3 years:
Kiffin -1
Dooley - 2 years
Chaney - int
Jones - 4
Hoke- int
Pruitt -2 years
Record 136-74
Nobody should be suggesting that route.
Worst argument on this board. We have always sucked and been a bottom feeder. Be lucky and grateful we aren't 3-9 and be happy with 7-5 6-6 seasons. It's as good as Mullen was!
That's why leach is getting a major pass because it's really year 2.
I mean I want to be clear. I’m not happy with 6-6 and 7-5 consistently but I’m also not stupid.
We need stability and sustained growth.
That's why leach is getting a major pass because it's really year 2 but with 3rd year players
yeah every year is just mediocre. I just don't know if will can get us there next year or his style of play or if leach will let us have someone that can take us to the next level of 9-10. We need a mobile qb to make the offense sing like the ones that are adaptations of this offense. Just feel like to compete with the top every few years. We must have a mobile qb and a veteran. Veteran team with will not cutting it. Year 2 for leach but no mistakes these are 3rd year players in this system. It should be an upswing year. Next year is easier on paper but the easier games are on the road except Kentucky.
I'm a huge fan of Will and Leach. Yes we all want 10 win seasons but if we are realistic about it that is not normal here. Will has a ceiling and may have hit it. He is keeping the seat warm for Sawyer and we all know it's his job when he knows the system well enough. He is a bigger more mobile quarterback with a stronger arm. Will has been the best we have. He knew the system from high school. I wish him the best and appreciate him but I am hoping Sawyer takes that job by next year. Leach will make the switch if he thinks he is ready. This team will continue to improve. I know its never fast enough but it is what it is
Because we hired Leach to do exactly what Kiffin is doing at Ole Miss. We hired Mike Leach to compete for the West. Simple as that. That is the standard. That is the goal. Now, does he have to compete for the west every year, NO. But he does have to be competitive now that his guys are on campus. Sorry, but we didn't hire Leach to stay the 6-6, 7-5 team we have been the past 30 years.
LT's loser mentality back in the 80s-90s is what has kept us down. WE should be the Bama of Mississippi, but dammit agriculture doesn't rake in the dollars.
If I dreamed tsun won 11 straight, that would be a nightmare despite us also being undefeated. I would pull for the Chi-Coms in a ping pong tournament against tsun. I never downplay losing to tsun. Getting a leg up on those P'sOS is step one to taking the next step forward and maintaining it is a feasible and obtainable goal and can not be sidestepped if we want to put our mediocre history behind us. There is a definite opportunity for STATE considering the plethora of football talent in our region / back yard but have to do better than tsun in crootin' and we CAN do that if we get our heads out of our a$$es.
The challenge with Leach is that he is so polarizing. We have fans that love the quirks. People are flying maroon pirate flags for goodness sake. Those fans and some others are content with what we're getting. Then you have some that were totally against it from the start. I was not a fan of the hire, but I was willing to give it time. The idea of doing more with less and being competitive offensively with the big boys was appealing. To me that would be 8-4 seasons coupled with progress towards competing with Bama. Being able to win games against Ole Miss is a given. I don't care if they are undefeated.
I am now in the camp of he has to go at some point soon. Logically next year would probably be the time to make the move. There are so many variables in play. Most importantly he has been a disaster against Bama. One garbage TD scored. Everyone has scored on them this year. It is looking like another non competitive game with Ole Miss. If Leach was going to work, this is a prime year for it to work. The west is as down as it has been in forever. Kentucky was not good. This offense shows no signs of working. One other telling thing for me is how often we had to convert 4th downs against A&M and Arkansas. You can't sustain drives like that against good teams. I think you have to break it down to more than just the overall record.
With all of that said, the quirkiness has run its course with most all of the fan base.
I am now in the camp of he has to go at some point soon. Logically next year would probably be the time to make the move. There are so many variables in play. Most importantly he has been a disaster against Bama. One garbage TD scored. Everyone has scored on them this year. It is looking like another non competitive game with Ole Miss. If Leach was going to work, this is a prime year for it to work. The west is as down as it has been in forever. Kentucky was not good. This offense shows no signs of working. One other telling thing for me is how often we had to convert 4th downs against A&M and Arkansas. You can't sustain drives like that against good teams. I think you have to break it down to more than just the overall record.
With all of that said, the quirkiness has run its course with most all of the fan base.
My new favorite stat to drop is that Leach went 8-4 in both year 4 & 5 at Washington State but also lost to FCS schools in both seasons. The reason why he will never have full fan support is because his teams always have a few really bad games a season and they hardly win rivalry and bowl games. Having a “special season” in year 7 or whatever the latest fantasy is, is not worth the frustration of Mike Leach.
I think one of the biggest issues is that we are going to fall even more down the pecking order if we don't change. It used to be that the "we are poor little old Mississippi State, we just are what we are" attitude didn't really affect our on-the-field results. But with NIL, it absolutely will have an impact. And we are already seeing it. Ole Miss alone has almost 4x the amount of NIL donors we have. And it took Cohen leaving and badmouthing our NIL just to get to that number. A lot of people don't want to donate because "we just are what we are as a program, and it will never change".
The irony is that we can actually make it change, at least quite a bit, now. No we wont ever reach Alabama, Georgia, LSU type of numbers. But the change is here and if we don't get with it, in another decade we will be begging just to get to a bowl game. You also have to factor in that Texas and Oklahoma are coming to the SEC. Competition is about to get even tougher. And the playoffs are expanding to 12 teams. Meaning that teams like Mississippi State, Ole Miss and Kentucky can have more realistic shots at getting playoff spots if they are having really good years. It would really suck to watch those teams that are at our level now be competing for playoff spots every so often while we are winning 4-5 games because we have no NIL support and can't get any players. Whether or not you disagree with NIL or what expectations we are supposed to have, that is just the reality.
As for the disappointment this year and with Leach as a whole, I think its very valid. The offense isn't effective. Its boring to watch. We aren't a threat to anybody unless we run the ball like we did earlier in the year, and we refuse to do it. We have talent that is being wasted. Meanwhile, we get to sit back and watch every other team in the West play competitive games against Alabama, and we can't even come close. The Georgia game is what it is, we played terrible offensively once again and got screwed time and time again by the refs. Struggled against a bad Auburn team. Lost to a beat up, overrated Kentucky team. Yeah we beat Arkansas and A&M like we should have, but we've abandoned the formulas that we used for beating them altogether at this point. We just feel like we are paper tigers. We fall apart so easily and it doesn't seem like it will get better with Leach.
He seems a lot like Ben Howland to me. A guy who is past his prime and he will always have decent teams with decent talent, but you will always feel like you can be doing a lot better with the talent you have on the field. At the end of the day, this is entertainment for all of us, and the shine on Leach has worn off. Most of us watch the games spitefully at this point, knowing we're about to watch continuous 3-and-outs, 2-yard checkdown passes, and our defense give it everything they have until they just run out of gas because they aren't getting any help at all from the offense. Here's to hoping that we somehow have an offensive epiphany and beat Ole Miss, win the bowl game, and go into next year with some confidence. Unfortunately I just don't see that happening.
Edit to say I wanted some paragraphs - dawgstudent
The irony is that we can actually make it change, at least quite a bit, now. No we wont ever reach Alabama, Georgia, LSU type of numbers. But the change is here and if we don't get with it, in another decade we will be begging just to get to a bowl game. You also have to factor in that Texas and Oklahoma are coming to the SEC. Competition is about to get even tougher. And the playoffs are expanding to 12 teams. Meaning that teams like Mississippi State, Ole Miss and Kentucky can have more realistic shots at getting playoff spots if they are having really good years. It would really suck to watch those teams that are at our level now be competing for playoff spots every so often while we are winning 4-5 games because we have no NIL support and can't get any players. Whether or not you disagree with NIL or what expectations we are supposed to have, that is just the reality.
As for the disappointment this year and with Leach as a whole, I think its very valid. The offense isn't effective. Its boring to watch. We aren't a threat to anybody unless we run the ball like we did earlier in the year, and we refuse to do it. We have talent that is being wasted. Meanwhile, we get to sit back and watch every other team in the West play competitive games against Alabama, and we can't even come close. The Georgia game is what it is, we played terrible offensively once again and got screwed time and time again by the refs. Struggled against a bad Auburn team. Lost to a beat up, overrated Kentucky team. Yeah we beat Arkansas and A&M like we should have, but we've abandoned the formulas that we used for beating them altogether at this point. We just feel like we are paper tigers. We fall apart so easily and it doesn't seem like it will get better with Leach.
He seems a lot like Ben Howland to me. A guy who is past his prime and he will always have decent teams with decent talent, but you will always feel like you can be doing a lot better with the talent you have on the field. At the end of the day, this is entertainment for all of us, and the shine on Leach has worn off. Most of us watch the games spitefully at this point, knowing we're about to watch continuous 3-and-outs, 2-yard checkdown passes, and our defense give it everything they have until they just run out of gas because they aren't getting any help at all from the offense. Here's to hoping that we somehow have an offensive epiphany and beat Ole Miss, win the bowl game, and go into next year with some confidence. Unfortunately I just don't see that happening.
Edit to say I wanted some paragraphs - dawgstudent
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Few average fans are going to commit to $100/month. Many already spend $4-5k on premium seats/bulldog club not including transportation, meals and accommodations and that's just for football.
OM nearly had your first scenario in 2014. They kept us out of the playoff. What a gut wrenching performance.
Definitely not expecting 9-10 win season every year but it should become more normal to have that every 3-4 with a qb that's a veteran. Will just doesn't have it. He's peaked. My wondering is how long will it take sawyer or whoever else it is to get there or will we be constantly in that 7-5 6-6 category trying to build to get there. How long do we let it go on before we change something up. 5-7 years? If we haven't had an 9 win season by end of 2025 season is it time to move on then. Will sawyer have the wheels and moxey we need
^^^^^this times a million. Every now and then win 9/10 or slip to 6-6, but on average win 8 regular season games and beat ole miss more time than not, and never lose to them at home.
To summarize:
1. Historically, our football program is an SEC bottom feeder.
2. We have managed to lift ourselves up to a perennial 7-5 program, but still rarely have a winning conference record.
3. We want more. We are not going to be the next Clemson, but we would like to have the occasional season where we dream of greatness. It has gotten old sitting around discussing our Glory Year.
4. We are scared to death of having less. Alums of a certain age have no desire to return to the pre-Sherrill days.
5. Texas and Oklahoma join the conference soon. No one has mentioned this yet, just thought I would throw that out there.
Which means, Leach is currently maintaining our new perennial status of 7-5/3-5. But he is a goofy MOFO who shows little indication he can give us a second Glory Year. There is a chance we could hire a better coach, and a chance we could hire another Croom.
Personally, I find Leach's games more entertaining than any other coach we have had, but I would rather win more.
If we get rid of Leach, we won't have to hear him clear his throat again. But what will I do with all this pirate ****?
1. Historically, our football program is an SEC bottom feeder.
2. We have managed to lift ourselves up to a perennial 7-5 program, but still rarely have a winning conference record.
3. We want more. We are not going to be the next Clemson, but we would like to have the occasional season where we dream of greatness. It has gotten old sitting around discussing our Glory Year.
4. We are scared to death of having less. Alums of a certain age have no desire to return to the pre-Sherrill days.
5. Texas and Oklahoma join the conference soon. No one has mentioned this yet, just thought I would throw that out there.
Which means, Leach is currently maintaining our new perennial status of 7-5/3-5. But he is a goofy MOFO who shows little indication he can give us a second Glory Year. There is a chance we could hire a better coach, and a chance we could hire another Croom.
Personally, I find Leach's games more entertaining than any other coach we have had, but I would rather win more.
If we get rid of Leach, we won't have to hear him clear his throat again. But what will I do with all this pirate ****?
Actually it was “6-6 is the best we will do!” I allowed for the fact that we could do better or worse! Unfortunately it was way worse!
If we have not improved in wins after year 5, we should explore other options.
There is always going to be some issues that can't be ignored. Let's take the Moorhead hire. Moorhead may have improved given time, but we could not let go what he allowed in the locker room. He was ill equipped to handle that. He had to go.
Leach's 5th year will have a new QB settled into a system that has had plenty of time to be rolling. The bench depth and everything is on him. There is always a time limit to produce.
2 and 3 years is not that time limit unless a moorhead situation comes up.
Seems to me you were not willing to give him the time. After all, here you are with this post!
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