Was Oregon Cheating or Playing Smart?

[8dog]

It's a little murky, but I think if you send 85 guys out there on defense, it could qualify under this stipulation of unsportsmanlike conduct:

"No substitute(s) may enter the field of play or end zones for purposes other than replacing a player(s) or to fill a player vacancy(ies). This includes demonstrations after any play (A.R. 9-2-1-I)."

That was my original thought. Because it makes sense that Lanning doesn’t just outright admit it. He talks in circles about things they work o.

 

[Villagedawg]

You said, "Apples to oranges," when asked about the difference between intentionally fouling in basketball to stop the clock and intentionally committing a penalty in football to waste time.

Not sure what you mean here. This was in response to a gif that implied the only purpose was to "win the game."

 

[Villagedawg]

I think you just perfectly demonstrated the slippery slope fallacy

Never did I say if we allow this then this. This was in direct response to a post that implied that the only thing that mattered was to win the game. Didn't mean to confuse the two arguments.

 

[Perd Hapley]

1 is the best option but you really have to be sharp and it still runs off a minimum of 2 seconds.

But 2 seconds for 5 free yards is still a net win for the offense in just about any scenario where this particular call by Oregon would have been advantageous for them. 5-6 seconds or less remaining, you’ve only got one play left, anyway. So, you could run it with 5-6 seconds left, or run it with 3-4 seconds left and do it 5 yards further upfield.

7 or 8 seconds left, you still might have only one play left….maybe two. But if you have 2 plays left, at least one has to be a very quick 3-6 yard checkdown and get OOB or call timeout. So, you can either try to run that 3-6 yard play and not have a bad snap / sack / incompletion / drop / not get out of bounds / fumble / offensive game ending penalty / other undesirable result, and still have it take a minimum of 4-5 seconds, or you can get 5 free yards, have 5 seconds left, and still run a play.

9-10 seconds left, you’re more into that 2-play territory, but you could still have 2 plays left even with 2 fewer seconds….and you gain 5 yards.

The bottom line is that this only worked due to the element of surprise. Lanning was counting on OSU not immediately recognizing what was happening, and continuing to run their play. If the OSU QB had simply recognized the extra player and then snapped and spiked, its advantage Buckeyes.

2. I don’t think that offset bc the ball isn’t live so there is no penalty on the defense. As for intentionally committing an offensive penalty that’s exactly what Lanning would want. Time running off.

I edited my post to include more appropriate options. Intentional illegal shift would accomplish the same goal.

but my ultimate question is why not run 30 guys out there? Do we all agree 12 is the same as 30 or 85 in this instance? Because that seems wild.

Because running 30 guys out there is more obvious that something is afoot. More likely that the opposing coach or QB calls timeout or the QB recognizes that it’s a truly free play.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

No. That's part of the game, expected, and well established. The other team is usually shooting free throws, and can much more easily make you pay for it. Different game entirely. Apples to oranges.

Edited to add that if you ran out a 6th player to foul, yes, it would be a b*tch move.

I've always wondered about this. Intentional fouls (or penalties in football) should be met with extreme punishment. Seems to me it's referees looking the other way in both circumstances.

 

[Tall Dawg]

OT:
Ok, give me answer to this Q:
Let’s say u are out of time outs, u are at 50 yard line, there are 20 seconds left, u need a TD to tie the game and u don’t want to “fake” an injury. Let’s say u call a TO (while knowing u don’t have one) to try to stop the clock. Would there be a delay of game 5 yard penalty and would the clock NOT start back until ball is snapped?
In BB I believe a tech is called if u call a TO w/o having any left, correct?

What say y’all??

 

[mstateglfr]

Unethical. Same as faking an injury. Both take advantage of a rule loophole. Both are a b*tch move.

Loopholes are just following the rules though. That term is used as a pejorative, but it isnt cheating or dishonorable or anything like that- its following the rules.
If enough people dont like the rule, then they will address the situation and adjust the rule.

 

[bulldoghair]

OT:
Ok, give me answer to this Q:
Let’s say u are out of time outs, u are at 50 yard line, there are 20 seconds left, u need a TD to tie the game and u don’t want to “fake” an injury. Let’s say u call a TO (while knowing u don’t have one) to try to stop the clock. Would there be a delay of game 5 yard penalty and would the clock NOT start back until ball is snapped?
In BB I believe a tech is called if u call a TO w/o having any left, correct?

What say y’all??

I think there would be a clock run off, or I would assume so.

 

[Villagedawg]

Loopholes are just following the rules though. That term is used as a pejorative, but it isnt cheating or dishonorable or anything like that- its following the rules.
If enough people dont like the rule, then they will address the situation and adjust the rule.

Have to disagree. There is a thing called ethics which addresses the myriad of things that cannot possibly be covered under any set of rules no matter how complete. There simply can't be a rule for everything. See US Constitution as a set of rules and guidelines.

 

[Villagedawg]

OT:
Ok, give me answer to this Q:
Let’s say u are out of time outs, u are at 50 yard line, there are 20 seconds left, u need a TD to tie the game and u don’t want to “fake” an injury. Let’s say u call a TO (while knowing u don’t have one) to try to stop the clock. Would there be a delay of game 5 yard penalty and would the clock NOT start back until ball is snapped?
In BB I believe a tech is called if u call a TO w/o having any left, correct?

What say y’all??

Clock starts on the ready for play in that situation. As it was running when play was stopped for the penalty. (NFHS anyway)

 

[StillTbonewannabe]

I don’t have an issue with that. The clock stops and the fouled team still gets free throws. And as noted if it were an issue they would have changed the rule by now. It’s been going on forever. Everyone agrees it’s fine. No one agrees what Oregon did is fine.

If you run 6 players onto the court though it’s a technical foul. Again I think this is supposed to be unsportsmanlike conduct if it’s intentional. So 15 yds.

That is the difference, basketball has the ability to call a technical, shoot free throws, and give the ball right back to the team on offense. That would eliminate the advantage. They are now talking about the ability to put time back on the clock. They should give the team on offense the choice on if they want the time added back.

 

[pseudonym]

Loopholes are just following the rules though. That term is used as a pejorative, but it isnt cheating or dishonorable or anything like that- its following the rules.
If enough people dont like the rule, then they will address the situation and adjust the rule.

Exactly.

There are two discussions:

1. Is what Lanning did cheating/unethical/etc? The clear answer is No.
2. Should the rules be changed to prevent what Lanning did? That is an open debate.