We are 5-4

[Trojanbulldog19]

Imagine coming to an msu board and saying croom is a good coach. The game is a lot different now than it was in 2006. Lot more talent the strength of schedule is a lot harder. Lebby year two has been in every game but one. Croom only had one good year and he got blown out several games that year

 

[paindonthurt]

Kiffin had built a lot more insurance and has shown he can win more than he loses doing that. It is what it is. You win you can build yourself some credit to make calls like that when your overall record is 7-14 as a head coach you don't get that lucky. Everything you do is under a microscope. Though it's funny you don't think the ole miss fans are pissed with kiffin does that and it doesn't work

Kiffen has the benefit of an easy AF schedule too. Again, i think kiffen is a good coach but all coaches make bad decisions. Even Saban.

 

[615dawg]

The schedule didn't help us this year. If we had two of South Carolina, Kentucky or Auburn instead of Tennessee, A&M and Texas, we are likely 7-2.

 

[Dawgg]

Imagine coming to an msu board and saying croom is a good coach. The game is a lot different now than it was in 2006. Lot more talent the strength of schedule is a lot harder. Lebby year two has been in every game but one. Croom only had one good year and he got blown out several games that year

Croom was indisputably a good coach. He just wasn’t a good head coach. Some guys are just great coordinators & position coaches. Croom was a great running backs coach, but head coach is a different skillset.

 

[PrimeDog]

It’s funny with this fanbase. All preseason people just said let’s keep Shapen upright. Others called him plastic man and other stupid ****.

Meanwhile, behind an OL that is not as good as people expected or wanted, the “plastic man” has played every game and is currently 4th in the SEC in passing, yet everybody wants the guy that couldn’t hit a stationary target to take over. Mind boggling.

 

[615dawg]

^This. The Croom years were miserable to watch. Last year was as close as we've been to those years when there seemed to be zero hope. Lebby has made many mistakes, but we are nowhere close to the Croom years. Time makes many blind.

You young ones do not know the pain of watching those Croom teams and then him blaming the fans or the defense not scoring enough for losing.

Croom's first season:

Killed by Auburn
Lost to Maine
51-0 to LSU
31-13 loss to a Vanderbilt team that finished 1-7 in the SEC
2 score loss to UAB
Blown out by Alabama
Heartbreaking loss to Arkansas
Lost 20-3 to a 4-7 Ole Miss team'

Season 2

Shutout by Auburn
Played well but ultimately outdone by Georgia
Killed by LSU
Destroyed by Florida
Beat down by Houston
Lost 13-7 to a bad Kentucky team
Shutout by Alabama
Blown out by Arkansas for 7th loss in a row

Season 3

Didn't score a point in losses to South Carolina and LSU to start the season
"Thanks for the check loss to Tulane to move to 0-3
Barely scraped out a win at UAB
Back to back blowouts by LSU and West Virginia to move to 1-5
Lost to Georgia 27-24 in a game where Croom went for it on 4th and 2 from the UGA 42 then punted on 4th and 1 from the UGA 30.
Lost to Kentucky
Got a postcard from Larry Templeton when we upset Alabama (kept Croom from getting fired)
Back to back losses to Arkansas and Ole Miss to finish 3-9

Season 4 (the best of the 5)

The Michael Henig LSU game where we lost 45-0
3 wins over bad teams to get some momentum (at least we weren't losing)
A loss to South Carolina and a revenge win over UAB
Blowout losses to Tennessee and West Virginia to drop to 4-4
Two legit upsets of Kentucky and Alabama before getting blown out by Arkansas
Derek Pegues saving us against a bad Ole Miss team
The worst bowl game in MSU history - beating UCF 10-3 on a cold night in Memphis

Season 5
Lost on the road at Louisiana Tech to open the season
The 3-2 game
Blowout losses to LSU and Georgia Tech
An upset of Vanderbilt
Beat down by Tennessee
Barely pulled away from MTSU late
a 14-13 loss to Kentucky
Blowout loss to Alabama
Somehow beat Arkansas
A 45-0 beatdown by Ole Miss


Nothing Lebby has done is anywhere close to those five years.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Croom was indisputably a good coach. He just wasn’t a good head coach. Some guys are just great coordinators & position coaches. Croom was a great running backs coach, but head coach is a different skillset.

Well yeah. I thought it was implied when comparing to another head coach. He was only head coach at msu

 

[CochiseCowbell]

You young ones do not know the pain of watching those Croom teams and then him blaming the fans or the defense not scoring enough for losing.

Croom's first season:

Killed by Auburn
Lost to Maine
51-0 to LSU
31-13 loss to a Vanderbilt team that finished 1-7 in the SEC
2 score loss to UAB
Blown out by Alabama
Heartbreaking loss to Arkansas
Lost 20-3 to a 4-7 Ole Miss team'

Season 2

Shutout by Auburn
Played well but ultimately outdone by Georgia
Killed by LSU
Destroyed by Florida
Beat down by Houston
Lost 13-7 to a bad Kentucky team
Shutout by Alabama
Blown out by Arkansas for 7th loss in a row

Season 3

Didn't score a point in losses to South Carolina and LSU to start the season
"Thanks for the check loss to Tulane to move to 0-3
Barely scraped out a win at UAB
Back to back blowouts by LSU and West Virginia to move to 1-5
Lost to Georgia 27-24 in a game where Croom went for it on 4th and 2 from the UGA 42 then punted on 4th and 1 from the UGA 30.
Lost to Kentucky
Got a postcard from Larry Templeton when we upset Alabama (kept Croom from getting fired)
Back to back losses to Arkansas and Ole Miss to finish 3-9

Season 4 (the best of the 5)

The Michael Henig LSU game where we lost 45-0
3 wins over bad teams to get some momentum (at least we weren't losing)
A loss to South Carolina and a revenge win over UAB
Blowout losses to Tennessee and West Virginia to drop to 4-4
Two legit upsets of Kentucky and Alabama before getting blown out by Arkansas
Derek Pegues saving us against a bad Ole Miss team
The worst bowl game in MSU history - beating UCF 10-3 on a cold night in Memphis

Season 5
Lost on the road at Louisiana Tech to open the season
The 3-2 game
Blowout losses to LSU and Georgia Tech
An upset of Vanderbilt
Beat down by Tennessee
Barely pulled away from MTSU late
a 14-13 loss to Kentucky
Blowout loss to Alabama
Somehow beat Arkansas
A 45-0 beatdown by Ole Miss


Nothing Lebby has done is anywhere close to those five years.

I feel like I just relived that era. I agree Lebby is better by leaps and bounds, but seeing it in black and white makes me realize just how much better.

There were weekends when I didn't even know what time we played.

 

[johnson86-1]

You young ones do not know the pain of watching those Croom teams and then him blaming the fans or the defense not scoring enough for losing.

Croom's first season:

Killed by Auburn
Lost to Maine
51-0 to LSU
31-13 loss to a Vanderbilt team that finished 1-7 in the SEC
2 score loss to UAB
Blown out by Alabama
Heartbreaking loss to Arkansas
Lost 20-3 to a 4-7 Ole Miss team'

Season 2

Shutout by Auburn
Played well but ultimately outdone by Georgia
Killed by LSU
Destroyed by Florida
Beat down by Houston
Lost 13-7 to a bad Kentucky team
Shutout by Alabama
Blown out by Arkansas for 7th loss in a row

Season 3

Didn't score a point in losses to South Carolina and LSU to start the season
"Thanks for the check loss to Tulane to move to 0-3
Barely scraped out a win at UAB
Back to back blowouts by LSU and West Virginia to move to 1-5
Lost to Georgia 27-24 in a game where Croom went for it on 4th and 2 from the UGA 42 then punted on 4th and 1 from the UGA 30.
Lost to Kentucky
Got a postcard from Larry Templeton when we upset Alabama (kept Croom from getting fired)
Back to back losses to Arkansas and Ole Miss to finish 3-9

Season 4 (the best of the 5)

The Michael Henig LSU game where we lost 45-0
3 wins over bad teams to get some momentum (at least we weren't losing)
A loss to South Carolina and a revenge win over UAB
Blowout losses to Tennessee and West Virginia to drop to 4-4
Two legit upsets of Kentucky and Alabama before getting blown out by Arkansas
Derek Pegues saving us against a bad Ole Miss team
The worst bowl game in MSU history - beating UCF 10-3 on a cold night in Memphis

Season 5
Lost on the road at Louisiana Tech to open the season
The 3-2 game
Blowout losses to LSU and Georgia Tech
An upset of Vanderbilt
Beat down by Tennessee
Barely pulled away from MTSU late
a 14-13 loss to Kentucky
Blowout loss to Alabama
Somehow beat Arkansas
A 45-0 beatdown by Ole Miss


Nothing Lebby has done is anywhere close to those five years.

It is wild reading about those first three seasons and it not being followed by "and then he was fired". College football has become ridiculous with how short fuses are, but that was a ridiculously long rope there. I guess the first AA coach probably had people scared plus being cheap.

 

[johnson86-1]

I feel like I just relived that era. I agree Lebby is better by leaps and bounds, but seeing it in black and white makes me realize just how much better.

There were weekends when I didn't even know what time we played.

Even last year, as bad as we looked in all aspects, our offense at times showed potential. By the end of last year, I fully expected Lebby to be fired sometime during year three and I still never thought he was as bad as Croom. Even in Croom's best year, the side of the ball that he was more responsible for was awful.

 

[skip dog]

I agree with this. Our starters are pretty close. Still less talent when you factor in o line and pass blocking

but our depth isn’t there. That’s a big reason we’ve lost late. We give out on defense.

I think Chizik, or the other douche announcer, said in the first half that we outscore opponents 79-19 in the first quarter.......makes me wonder what that should tell us:
-good up front game plan
-we know how to come out of the gates
-Lebby is scouting well and making adjustments to achieve that production

then.......
-we don't adjust in-game enough to keep up the production and trouble opposition play callers
-we don't have depth
-halftime adjustments not there
-don't know how to finish
-dont' know how to win

Whatever it is, I think we have a developing head coach who has a chance to figure all of this out....we just have to get depth, and develop the ability to transition somethings mid game to keep opponent out of balance

***I type alot of words per minute on a keyboard online, and that is the extent of my uniformed, qualified, free, message board opinion***

 

[paindonthurt]

I think Chizik, or the other douche announcer, said in the first half that we outscore opponents 79-19 in the first quarter.......makes me wonder what that should tell us:
-good up front game plan
-we know how to come out of the gates
-Lebby is scouting well and making adjustments to achieve that production

then.......
-we don't adjust in-game enough to keep up the production and trouble opposition play callers
-we don't have depth
-halftime adjustments not there
-don't know how to finish
-dont' know how to win

Whatever it is, I think we have a developing head coach who has a chance to figure all of this out....we just have to get depth, and develop the ability to transition somethings mid game to keep opponent out of balance

***I type alot of words per minute on a keyboard online, and that is the extent of my uniformed, qualified, free, message board opinion***

after the 1st quarter, its depth and less talent.

He's a good enough coach to scheme around the talent, but then other coaches make adjustments with more talent. The defense also gives out b/c of lack of depth/talent.

Lebby has made some mistakes like any other coach, but the fact remains he is 5-4 with 4 losses to teams with way more talent/depth. That equates to good coaching considering we were had a solid chance to win every game except 1 (which we were in late in the 3rd quarter).

 

[Crazy Cotton]

I think Chizik, or the other douche announcer, said in the first half that we outscore opponents 79-19 in the first quarter.......makes me wonder what that should tell us:
-good up front game plan
-we know how to come out of the gates
-Lebby is scouting well and making adjustments to achieve that production

then.......
-we don't adjust in-game enough to keep up the production and trouble opposition play callers
-we don't have depth
-halftime adjustments not there
-don't know how to finish
-dont' know how to win

Whatever it is, I think we have a developing head coach who has a chance to figure all of this out....we just have to get depth, and develop the ability to transition somethings mid game to keep opponent out of balance

***I type alot of words per minute on a keyboard online, and that is the extent of my uniformed, qualified, free, message board opinion***

Don't minimize attrition that happens during these games. We typically lose 3 or 4 players to injury over the course of a game and for a paper-thin team on both lines and defensive backfield, that can change a game in a hurry if one of those guys gets dinged up.

 

[skip dog]

after the 1st quarter, its depth and less talent.

He's a good enough coach to scheme around the talent, but then other coaches make adjustments with more talent. The defense also gives out b/c of lack of depth/talent.

Lebby has made some mistakes like any other coach, but the fact remains he is 5-4 with 4 losses to teams with way more talent/depth. That equates to good coaching considering we were had a solid chance to win every game except 1 (which we were in late in the 3rd quarter).

ABsolutely! I totally agree with all of that......kinda feel like that is understood at this point (depth & injury)......my point was probably mainly to bring light to the fact that he can coach and prepare......he may just need some time to mature into in game adjustments, and finding a way to develop the team to have more depth.....or possibly, develop "his team" more.......but agree with you in total

 

[skip dog]

Don't minimize attrition that happens during these games. We typically lose 3 or 4 players to injury over the course of a game and for a paper-thin team on both lines and defensive backfield, that can change a game in a hurry if one of those guys gets dinged up.

not minimizing at all......totally agree....just failed to mention......clarified more in reply to @paindonthurt

 

[Darryl Steight]

after the 1st quarter, its depth and less talent.

He's a good enough coach to scheme around the talent, but then other coaches make adjustments with more talent. The defense also gives out b/c of lack of depth/talent.

Lebby has made some mistakes like any other coach, but the fact remains he is 5-4 with 4 losses to teams with way more talent/depth. That equates to good coaching considering we were had a solid chance to win every game except 1 (which we were in late in the 3rd quarter).

Very reminiscent of Mullen.

Good gameplanning. Win the games you're favored in. Lose the games (but be competitive) when you are up against a large talent gap. Hopefully, win and show enough promise to recruit better and better talent.

I can live with that. Hell, so should all the people who wanted Dan gone in 2017 and now regret it. Not to mention the people who've been clamoring for him to come back once we fire Lebby.

Lebby is 41 now, the same age Dan was in 2013. We seem to have found something akin to Don Merlin 2.0, so we might want to realize that and be happy with it this time around.

 

[paindonthurt]

Very reminiscent of Mullen.

Good gameplanning. Win the games you're favored in. Lose the games (but be competitive) when you are up against a large talent gap. Hopefully, win and show enough promise to recruit better and better talent.

I can live with that. Hell, so should all the people who wanted Dan gone in 2017 and now regret it. Not to mention the people who've been clamoring for him to come back once we fire Lebby.

Lebby is 41 now, the same age Dan was in 2013. We seem to have found something akin to Don Merlin 2.0, so we might want to realize that and be happy with it this time around.

And here's the thing. I'm not saying he is or isn't gonna be as good as mullen, but Mullen never had 3 1 score losses to top teams in the same year.

 

[blacklistedbully]

we have 4 losses to teams with more talent than us.
We have 1 win against a team with more talent.

get off lennys nut sack and quit being a bunch of f@gget douche bags

I don't think anybody in the "fire Lebby camp" based that on the losses. but rather how we lost.

 

[paindonthurt]

1I don't think anybody in the "fire Lebby camp" based that on the losses. but rather how we lost.

Bc they are emotional? Makes it even worse.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Very reminiscent of Mullen.

Good gameplanning. Win the games you're favored in. Lose the games (but be competitive) when you are up against a large talent gap. Hopefully, win and show enough promise to recruit better and better talent.

I can live with that. Hell, so should all the people who wanted Dan gone in 2017 and now regret it. Not to mention the people who've been clamoring for him to come back once we fire Lebby.

Lebby is 41 now, the same age Dan was in 2013. We seem to have found something akin to Don Merlin 2.0, so we might want to realize that and be happy with it this time around.

I'm bumping this, because the more I've thought about it, the more I like the comparison.

We brought in a roughly 40 year old up and coming P5 offensive guru, yet unproven as a head coach. He has a good offensive scheme, but needed some help figuring out the defensive side early on. He's bringing in some better players, while actually coaching the players we do have up. The guy definitely has the team believing in itself (although one major difference may be that the players actually seem to like the coach...) If you buy into the theory that 2025 is really year 1 for Lebby, this season compares pretty favorably to Mullen's 2009. We will see if Lebby's players have the success in the NFL that Dan's have had, but it was clear he knew how to prepare them.

We got a little spoiled with Dan and eventually got tired of his schtick, but upon further review, the consensus seems to be most of us would kill to have that kind of success and solid ground again. It seems to me that Lebby can get us there, but without being an insufferable assshole. It's unknown at this time whether he will let his agent wh0r3 him out after every season, but he doesn't seem to be that type of guy (yet).

Anyhoo, yesterday's response was not a fully formed thought, but I am liking this Mullen 2.0 comp more and more. Let's ride this one for a while.

 

[patdog]

You young ones do not know the pain of watching those Croom teams and then him blaming the fans or the defense not scoring enough for losing.

Croom's first season:

Killed by Auburn
Lost to Maine
51-0 to LSU
31-13 loss to a Vanderbilt team that finished 1-7 in the SEC
2 score loss to UAB
Blown out by Alabama
Heartbreaking loss to Arkansas
Lost 20-3 to a 4-7 Ole Miss team'

Season 2

Shutout by Auburn
Played well but ultimately outdone by Georgia
Killed by LSU
Destroyed by Florida
Beat down by Houston
Lost 13-7 to a bad Kentucky team
Shutout by Alabama
Blown out by Arkansas for 7th loss in a row

Season 3

Didn't score a point in losses to South Carolina and LSU to start the season
"Thanks for the check loss to Tulane to move to 0-3
Barely scraped out a win at UAB
Back to back blowouts by LSU and West Virginia to move to 1-5
Lost to Georgia 27-24 in a game where Croom went for it on 4th and 2 from the UGA 42 then punted on 4th and 1 from the UGA 30.
Lost to Kentucky
Got a postcard from Larry Templeton when we upset Alabama (kept Croom from getting fired)
Back to back losses to Arkansas and Ole Miss to finish 3-9

Season 4 (the best of the 5)

The Michael Henig LSU game where we lost 45-0
3 wins over bad teams to get some momentum (at least we weren't losing)
A loss to South Carolina and a revenge win over UAB
Blowout losses to Tennessee and West Virginia to drop to 4-4
Two legit upsets of Kentucky and Alabama before getting blown out by Arkansas
Derek Pegues saving us against a bad Ole Miss team
The worst bowl game in MSU history - beating UCF 10-3 on a cold night in Memphis

Season 5
Lost on the road at Louisiana Tech to open the season
The 3-2 game
Blowout losses to LSU and Georgia Tech
An upset of Vanderbilt
Beat down by Tennessee
Barely pulled away from MTSU late
a 14-13 loss to Kentucky
Blowout loss to Alabama
Somehow beat Arkansas
A 45-0 beatdown by Ole Miss


Nothing Lebby has done is anywhere close to those five years.

Man he was terrible. That 0-14 loss to South Carolina in season 3 opener was it for me. And I was being patient. Should have fired him right then & there. He just stole money from us.

 

[Duggar Hall Desk]

I don't ask for Lebby to be perfect; I simply ask him to learn from his mistakes.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Bc they are emotional? Makes it even worse.

No, because you can't fix stupid. It's one thing to lose against better & more talented teams. It's one thing to lose because your staff is still early in turning the program around.

But it's another thing when your coach and/or staff loses games for you because of just flat-out poor coaching or stupidity. And that causes some fans to figure those kinds of mistakes are the kind you should quite likely expect even after the system is in place, and even if the talent gets better or is a better fit.

Les Miles is, I think, an example of a good coach, but one who just kept making the same stupid mistakes over & over, especially with clock management. His talent level was great enough that he won some games despite his mistakes, but at a program that expects to compete for SEC & national championships every year, and in a conference where 1 loss might be the difference and 2 losses probably knocks you out, that **** can't happen repeatedly.

For all the support and advantages Miles had at LSU, he never stopped making the same mistakes, eventually getting canned. WE don't have the expectations of an LSU in football, but you can scale it, if you will. Last year was a ****-show by everybody's estimation, I'm sure. But we had to give Lebby another chance.

This year we had a 4-game stretch where we just blew 3 we should have won, and the 4th was a blowout loss to aTm. Even the ASU win that looked great when they were #12, isn't much now that they are unranked & 6-3, with just one of those 6 a high-quality opponent and one more that's pretty good. ASU was a good win, but not great, and we damn near blew that one as well!

Now, I have to admit we are playing so much better than last year, and playing better, even in losses is a very good step forward. The problem here, again, is the way we lost.

I don't like being the "Debbie-downer" here, and I do hope Lebby isn't just stupid and can learn from his mistakes. But man...when we lose THREE games the way we did, it's got to make you wonder. Are we playing much, much better? Of course. Will Lebby go on to be a HC that isn't stupid and/or learns from his mistakes? I hope so, but it'll take a lot more than a narrow win over the only winless team in-conference games under an interim HC because they were so atrocious Pittman had to be fired mid-season, has just 2 wins, and those over Alabama A&M & Arkansas State!

 

[paindonthurt]

No, because you can't fix stupid. It's one thing to lose against better & more talented teams. It's one thing to lose because your staff is still early in turning the program around.

But it's another thing when your coach and/or staff loses games for you because of just flat-out poor coaching or stupidity. And that causes some fans to figure those kinds of mistakes are the kind you should quite likely expect even after the system is in place, and even if the talent gets better or is a better fit.

Les Miles is, I think, an example of a good coach, but one who just kept making the same stupid mistakes over & over, especially with clock management. His talent level was great enough that he won some games despite his mistakes, but at a program that expects to compete for SEC & national championships every year, and in a conference where 1 loss might be the difference and 2 losses probably knocks you out, that **** can't happen repeatedly.

For all the support and advantages Miles had at LSU, he never stopped making the same mistakes, eventually getting canned. WE don't have the expectations of an LSU in football, but you can scale it, if you will. Last year was a ****-show by everybody's estimation, I'm sure. But we had to give Lebby another chance.

This year we had a 4-game stretch where we lost 3 we should just blew, and the 4th was a blowout loss to aTm. Even the ASU win that looked great when they were #12, isn't much now that they are unranked & 6-3, with just one of those 6 a high-quality opponent and one more that's pretty good. ASU was a good win, but not great, and we damn near blew that one as well!

Now, I have to admit we are playing so much better than last year, and playing better, even in losses is a very good step forward. The problem here, again, is the way we lost.

I don't like being the "Debbie-downer" here, and I do hope Lebby isn't just stupid and can learn from his mistakes. But man...when we lose THREE games the way we did, it's got to make you wonder. Are we playing much, much better? Of course. Will Lebby go on to be a HC that isn't stupid and/or learns from his mistakes? I hope so, but it'll take a lot more than a narrow win over the only winless team in-conference games under an interim HC because they was so atrocious Pittman had to be fired mid-season, has just 2 wins, and those over Alabama A&M & Arkansas State!

TLDR

your opinion is really dumb based on the short piece I read.

FACTS
we are 5-4
4 losses to teams with significantly more talent
Outplayed 3 of those more talented teams for most of the game
No one expected us to be 5-4 with 3 1 score losses

OPINIONS
Lebby cost us the game

 

[Pookieray]

So did Croom

at no point in Croom's tenure was the team competent. even the liberty bowl year was they were lost and not well coached and they had talent but absolutely no coaching.

 

[blacklistedbully]

TLDR

your opinion is really dumb based on the short piece I read.

FACTS
we are 5-4
4 losses to teams with significantly more talent
Outplayed 3 of those more talented teams for most of the game
No one expected us to be 5-4 with 3 1 score losses

OPINIONS
Lebby cost us the game

If your attention span is so short perhaps you should consider spending your time elsewhere?

 

[PBRME]

Croom was indisputably a good coach. He just wasn’t a good head coach. Some guys are just great coordinators & position coaches. Croom was a great running backs coach, but head coach is a different skillset.

Croom was the OC for Detroit when Barry Sanders abruptly retired. Just saying.

 

[paindonthurt]

If your attention span is so short perhaps you should consider spending your time elsewhere?

Or maybe you could be clearer and more concise and less dumb?