Well Rosebowl has concluded Lem should get one more year...

[thekimmer]

OK. I listened to his rational, non-emotional reasoning. Primary reasons cited were maintaining continuity of recruiting coupled with the potential of returning players particularly some that did not play this season due to injury.

All valid points but I disagree and here are my rational non-emotional reasons.

It has been my observation that coaches on a do-or-die hot seat is almost always an exercise in putting off the inevitable. I also think that we needed to see at least the tiniest spark of life this season to lend some credibility to him being able to do the job and we saw the exact opposite. What I see is a program in a death spiral and based on that the likelihood he will get us out of this is not worth the risk of the additional damage that will come from another year like these last two. We need to trust what our eyes are telling us.

 

[aTotal360]

 

[The Cooterpoot]

He gone. When out top Alumni are wanting him out, he's going to be out.

 

[TulsaLawDawg]

Wonder if we are talking to anyone right now

 

[aTotal360]

Wonder if we are talking to anyone right now

Dude. This is the SEC. The stakes are extremely high. Of course we aren't.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I haven't quite finished the podcast, but I agree with him. I'm no fan of Lemonis (outside him winning us our first title), but at this point, considering ALL evidence, probably best to let this ride one more year. We will get heat if we fire him now, we won't if we fire him next year. I'm willing to take that chance, with how good football and basketball will be.

 

[The Peeper]

"Primary reasons cited were maintaining continuity of recruiting..."

Umm, haven't we determined that this is what got us in the shape we are in now in the first place, his recruiting then not developing them?

 

[Seinfeld]

Are they really valid points, though?

1) Recruiting - I don’t care what the magazines are telling us. The last 3 years have been a recruiting shitshow for Lemonis. He’s lost all the big guns to the draft every year, his use of the portal has been mediocre at best, and he’s whiffed on way too many scholarship guys. Can we find 3-4 from each class that are solid players? Sure, but that’s not going to get us even to the upper half of the SEC, much less competing for titles

2) Potential of returning players - We are about to finish dead last in the SEC two years in a row. There are obviously some guys that I’d like to see back next year, but this is the least of my concerns

3) The eyeball test - Lemonis is a lost man out in the middle of the ocean that doesn’t even seem to have the willpower to cling to the raft anymore. It’s in his voice, it’s on his face, and it’s in his body language. He’s openly admitting that he doesn’t know what button to push next.

This isn’t my call to make, and I realize that making a change like this as a brand new AD is no easy task. That said, if our AD can’t look at this and recognize that the party’s over, I’ve got a lot of questions for him

 

[The Peeper]

We will get heat if we fire him now, we won't if we fire him next year. I'm willing to take that chance, with how good football and basketball will be.

Everyone said we would get heat for firing Slo Joe Moorhead after only 2 seasons. When you know its time, you know its time and even Nellie Cohen knew it was time. There is no rational reason to maintain a coach that finishes in last place in the conference TWO YEARS IN A ROW at any school, especially after winning the National Championship.
By the way, Sloppy Joe was 2-10 this past season in the Mid American Conference, we weren't wrong.....

 

[patdog]

"Primary reasons cited were maintaining continuity of recruiting..."

Umm, haven't we determined that this is what got us in the shape we are in now in the first place, his recruiting then not developing them?

Yeah. This is one of the worst possible reasons to keep a coach. If this were a real legitimate reason to keep a coach, when would you ever fire a coach? Cause there's always another recruiting class you've "got to keep together." Sometimes some of our fans (and former athletic directors and bus drivers) are so 17ing scared of change!

 

[patdog]

Everyone said we would get heat for firing Slo Joe Moorhead after only 2 seasons.

Here's a tip. Nobody gives a s-h-i-t about the coach you fired. Ever. Certainly not any coaches you might be recruiting. All they see is an open job that could be theirs if they want it.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Putting the whole Lemonis situation aside, has RoseBowl ever come out on the side of firing ANY coach who hadn’t themselves already resigned?

I seem to remember he wanted Jackie to get a 3rd year, Rick Ray to get a 4th year, Howland to get however many more years, etc. He’s just not ever going to burn a bridge with any staff that hasn’t already been put out to pasture. No reason to even care what his opinion is because you already know it before you read or listen to the first word.

 

[Darryl Steight]

The handle has been pushed. The turd is circling. Why would you stop now, in mid-flush?

 

[Seinfeld]

Here's a tip. Nobody gives a s-h-i-t about the coach you fired. Ever. Certainly not any coaches you might be recruiting. All they see is an open job that could be theirs if they want it.

It amazes me as to how often this comes up, yet is repeatedly one of the most baseless arguments in the history of coach firings. I’d absolutely love to see the objective evidence behind recruits not signing with schools, new coaches not accepting offer, or any other meaningful backlash due to a school parting ways with a coach “too soon”.

The reality is that some media source will spin up a story, we’ll hear about it for a couple days, and then within a week’s time, the entire world will move on and forget all about it

 

[8dog]

Here's a tip. Nobody gives a s-h-i-t about the coach you fired. Ever. Certainly not any coaches you might be recruiting. All they see is an open job that could be theirs if they want it.

And I seriously doubt any coach in America expects another year if they did what Lem has done.

We are likely going back to back single digit win seasons in conference. In the last 20 SEC seasons only one coach more than 2 years into his tenure has done that. Dave Serrano. And TN fired him.

 

[TRAVI5]

Dude. This is the SEC. The stakes are extremely high. Of course we aren't.

I understand this is a joke partly, but does anyone really think Selmon is already infected the old Larry Templeton mentality?

 

[aTotal360]

Great idea. Let's bring in another one of Lem's classes.

 

[MStateDawg]

It has been my observation that coaches on a do-or-die hot seat is almost always an exercise in putting off the inevitable

This got me thinking about which coaches did survive and turned things around.
Recent examples I thought of:

• Dabo Swinney went 6-7 in 2010 and was thought to be on the hot seat going into 2011. They won 10 games that year and the rest his history.
• Jim Harbaugh was getting heat just a couple years ago because they couldnt break thru and have a big season/beat Ohio State. I think he even took a pay cut to help silence some critics. Then bam, he does beats OSU in back-to-back years and led Michigan to the playoffs last year.
• Bianco saved his job with last year's run, but it's yet to be determined if that was a fluke or if it results in long term success (not looking positive with this season).

What other college coaches survived the hot seat and went on to have a great tenures?

 

[TRAVI5]

Putting the whole Lemonis situation aside, has RoseBowl ever come out on the side of firing ANY coach who hadn’t themselves already resigned?

I seem to remember he wanted Jackie to get a 3rd year, Rick Ray to get a 4th year, Howland to get however many more years, etc. He’s just not ever going to burn a bridge with any staff that hasn’t already been put out to pasture. No reason to even care what his opinion is because you already know it before you read or listen to the first word.

Yeah and a year after he's fired, Steve will have a multiple posts detailing how dysfunctional Lemonis' coaching was the past two years, how he bungled recruiting, blah blah blah. Steve is really good dishing dirt AFTER the coach leaves town.

 

[Puppers]

Winning 15 sec games in 2 years isn't good enough at Missouri and it damn sure isn't at MSU. If we sucked this bad in football we'd fire the coach. If Jans finished last in the conference 2 years in a row he'd be out. It is laughable that anyone can justify Lemonis returning.

 

[GloryDawg]

I don't think the good recruiting class has anything to do with the coach. Fire him we will get the same guys with the new coach. You all might disagree, but our recruiting has everything to do with the stadium and all the fired-up people in it making it a great atmosphere that many would love to play in. The Saturday game against Ole Miss could only be out done by another Saturday in the Dude. Arky, LSU and Ole MIss does a good job but they don't do it like Miss State.

Side Note: Rosebowl has gotten too close to the program and coaches to do his job. I just don't think he can make a honest opinion anymore worried about hurting a friend's feelings.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

This got me thinking about which coaches did survive and turned things around.
Recent examples I thought of:

• Dabo Swinney went 6-7 in 2010 and was thought to be on the hot seat going into 2011. They won 10 games that year and the rest his history.
• Jim Harbaugh was getting heat just a couple years ago because they couldnt break thru and have a big season/beat Ohio State. I think he even took a pay cut to help silence some critics. Then bam, he does beats OSU in back-to-back years and led Michigan to the playoffs last year.
• Bianco saved his job with last year's run, but it's yet to be determined if that was a fluke or if it results in long term success (not looking positive with this season).

What other college coaches survived the hot seat and went on to have a great tenures?

This guy did OK after his first three years.

 

[eckie1]

This is actually comforting for me to hear. If there’s anything consistent about Rosebowls opinions, it’s that they are virtually always wrong.

 

[patdog]

This got me thinking about which coaches did survive and turned things around.
Recent examples I thought of:

• Dabo Swinney went 6-7 in 2010 and was thought to be on the hot seat going into 2011. They won 10 games that year and the rest his history.
• Jim Harbaugh was getting heat just a couple years ago because they couldnt break thru and have a big season/beat Ohio State. I think he even took a pay cut to help silence some critics. Then bam, he does beats OSU in back-to-back years and led Michigan to the playoffs last year.
• Bianco saved his job with last year's run, but it's yet to be determined if that was a fluke or if it results in long term success (not looking positive with this season).

What other college coaches survived the hot seat and went on to have a great tenures?

2010 was Dabo's 2nd full year as Clemson's head coach and he was coming off a 9-5 season in his 1st year. Not to mention he won almost 1/4 as many conference games in 7 games that year (3-4) as Lemonis will win in 60 conference games over 2 years.

Jim Harbaugh has won at least 10 games in all but 2 of his non-Covid seasons, and he went 8-5 and 9-4 in those.

Neither of these is anywhere remotely near comparable to Lemonis.


Bianco wasn't in any danger of losing his job last year, or any other year. If he has another year like this next year, he'll be gone though.

 

[GloryDawg]

This is actually comforting for me to hear. If there’s anything consistent about Rosebowls opinions, it’s that they are virtually always wrong.

Most truth statement today.

 

[johnson86-1]

I haven't quite finished the podcast, but I agree with him. I'm no fan of Lemonis (outside him winning us our first title), but at this point, considering ALL evidence, probably best to let this ride one more year. We will get heat if we fire him now, we won't if we fire him next year. I'm willing to take that chance, with how good football and basketball will be.

I just don't know how you get past the fact that we really haven't improved anywhere. We've had some young bright spots, but mostly we just look like a terribly coached team pitching and fielding.

 

[thekimmer]

Most truth statement today.

Yeah, this is a guy who got his nickname by straight face predicting we would play for a championship in the rosebowl in a year we won 3 or 4 games.

 

[StillTbonewannabe]

Lemonis was coach of the National Title team but then coach of the last two years which are possibly the WORST in MSU'S 150 year history. We have been run ruled about once a weekend and are an Ole Miss series away from trying to break the record set this year of most losses in a row in MSU history. Anyone saying that firing him now will make it worse doesn't realize that we are at the 17ing bottom.

 

[Theconnormead]

OK. I listened to his rational, non-emotional reasoning. Primary reasons cited were maintaining continuity of recruiting coupled with the potential of returning players particularly some that did not play this season due to injury.

All valid points but I disagree and here are my rational non-emotional reasons.

It has been my observation that coaches on a do-or-die hot seat is almost always an exercise in putting off the inevitable. I also think that we needed to see at least the tiniest spark of life this season to lend some credibility to him being able to do the job and we saw the exact opposite. What I see is a program in a death spiral and based on that the likelihood he will get us out of this is not worth the risk of the additional damage that will come from another year like these last two. We need to trust what our eyes are telling us.

Rosebowl has zero credibility in my book, and I don't think he would ever say a coach should go until after the fact. The recruiting angle never holds true, hire a great coach and it takes care of itself. Kids aren't so loyal to a coach that they would sabotage their own career (at least most aren't).
CL walked into a goldmine of talent, but he still had to push the right buttons and arguably Vandy was just as talented the NC year. Saying that, there is no excuse for not maintaining. I understand that baseball recruiting is different because you are typically so far out, but we should never be without a Friday and Saturday stud and he has been here long enough for this to fall on him. The lack of pitching is very concerning, yes I understand injuries but that seems to be a common theme. The sloppy play in the field also suggest they are not focused and / or getting the correct instruction. YoY improvements are lacking.
Bottom line is when you make the kind of money he does you must produce results. In the business world a director of sales would not survive back to back quarters much less years of poor sales when they have a superior product.

 

[thatsbaseball]

• "Bianco saved his job with last year's run, but it's yet to be determined if that was a fluke or if it results in long term success (not looking positive with this season)."

Let's get something straight right now . OM won the NC in baseball not because of a fluke but because of bad MState karma. Our dead Injuns kicked us in the nuts one more time.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Everyone said we would get heat for firing Slo Joe Moorhead after only 2 seasons. When you know its time, you know its time and even Nellie Cohen knew it was time. There is no rational reason to maintain a coach that finishes in last place in the conference TWO YEARS IN A ROW at any school, especially after winning the National Championship.
By the way, Sloppy Joe was 2-10 this past season in the Mid American Conference, we weren't wrong.....

Slophead didn’t win a natty. Bad analogy.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Here's a tip. Nobody gives a s-h-i-t about the coach you fired. Ever. Certainly not any coaches you might be recruiting. All they see is an open job that could be theirs if they want it.

Wrong. Ask Scott Strickin after he fired Stans in a very similar situation.

 

[Xenomorph]

Continuity in recruiting… you think LSU should’ve kept Orgeron to maintain their continuity in recruiting?

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

Continuity of what ?? I could coach this team to last in the SEC and will do it for half of RunruLemonis salary.

 

[thekimmer]

I haven't quite finished the podcast, but I agree with him. I'm no fan of Lemonis (outside him winning us our first title), but at this point, considering ALL evidence, probably best to let this ride one more year. We will get heat if we fire him now, we won't if we fire him next year. I'm willing to take that chance, with how good football and basketball will be.

OK, but when you listen to it all you should note that even RB clearly expressed some doubts in the midst of his endorsement. For him that is torches and pitchforks.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Continuity in recruiting… you think LSU should’ve kept Orgeron to maintain their continuity on recruiting?

This is an interesting point. Chizik and Orgeron both set the table for this. They were both recruiter/CEO/delegator/figure head types who let other coaches coach, and semi-got lucky. Then they lost the good coaches and it fell apart.

Lemonis is definitely a recruiter, so that's a similarity. They both win the natty early in tenures. But Lemonis didn't lose his coaches, that's the big difference.

I chalk most of this up to injuries.

 

[The Peeper]

Slophead didn’t win a natty. Bad analogy.

You win a Natty in June, you get until the next Feb to bask in the limelight and enjoy. Then, like it or not the clock starts ticking again.

Since that clock started ticking in Feb of '22 Lemonis is 50-53 overall, 15-39 SEC. Not only is he losing, we're losing big i.e. getting regularly whipped and run ruled (8 times this season) Kentucky outscored us 29-6 in two games and Vandy beat us 26-3 this year. Barring miracles in two SEC series and collapses of a couple others he will have missed the SEC tournament twice. Regionals and Super Regionals are distant memories. Doesn't matter what happened in June '21 its what have you done for me lately and for him its nothing.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

This take is actually work than the Rosebowl prediction 20 years ago. Rosebowl should from hereforth be known as Culligan.

 

[Xenomorph]

OK, but when you listen to it all you should note that even RB clearly expressed some doubts in the midst of his endorsement. For him that is torches and pitchforks.

Yep.. when the fan media who make a living off being buddies with the coaches start to question things…

 

[HumpDawgy]

Rosie would vote to bring back Cohenz since they are best of buds. Lemonis is lost. He has no clue how to fix this and it shows. He will go out and recruit some more home run or bust hitters and question marks on the mound. They will throw hard, but have NO control. We have fallen off at the end of 2 seasons in a row. I don't want to see a third with him on his bucket. Losing games 18 to 3 with 3 homers and 4 errors.