Well, this is what we have with Leach. It's time to either go or get off the pot with him.

[thekimmer]

He is an emotionless savant that is too easily distracted. He knows a lot about football but he treats it like one of many interests that he approaches in a detached academic fashion. Heck, football is probably about third or fourth down the list because he acts kind of put out when he has to talk about it. As a result his teams do not match other team's emotion and tend to lose games where that is a big factor like rivalry games or road games like this weekend. His teams are going to lose a game or two every season that they should have won. This season there have been two such games and the probable deal breaker is I don't know if he will ever win an egg bowl.

This is what we have folks. I think we will probably win 7 games this season and that is about the high water mark every season. I think State could live with that but we cannot live with losing every egg bowl.

 

[57stratdawg]

I can live with a “Leach Game” once a year. But, it’s tough when there are at least two of them (LSU & UK) and you’re looking at L’s in Tuscaloosa, UGA and probably in Oxford. Plus, Leach’s record in bowl games isn’t great.

BTW, I think the simplicity of our offense really drives these things more than some psychological issues.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Ya'll understand Jackie did the exact same thing, as far as dropping some games he shouldn't? Every...single...year.

Yes, some of it is Leach but no matter who the coach is, the only way to prevent it is to elevate the talent. So, the question is, what's the best way to do that? Is it Leach or somebody else? At this point, 2.5 years in, I say ride Leach until retirement, because we know we won't suck. And I don't see any other innovative coach out there that's worth firing Leach to get.

 

[patdog]

Ya'll understand Jackie did the exact same thing, as far as dropping some games he shouldn't? Every...single...year.

Yes, some of it is Leach but no matter who the coach is, the only way to prevent it is to elevate the talent. So, the question is, what's the best way to do that? Is it Leach or somebody else? At this point, 2.5 years in, I say ride Leach until retirement, because we know we won't suck. And I don't see any other innovative coach out there that's worth firing Leach to get.

Yeah. That's one thing that drove me crazy about Jackie and it drives me crazy about Leach too. No excuse for just not showing up for a couple of games per year.

And for the original poster, as long as Leach is winning 7 games per year, he won't be fired, and shouldn't be. Yeah, we might could to better. But there's probably close to a 50-50 chance we make a bad hire if we fire him. And a bad hire at Mississippi State can be a disaster.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Yeah. That's one thing that drove me crazy about Jackie and it drives me crazy about Leach too. No excuse for just not showing up for a couple of games per year.

I think it's more common than you think. The way Mullen was able to prevent those type losses is more of a unicorn sort of thing.

 

[Drebin]

I think it's more common than you think.

No it's not. It's an excuse.

As Mike Leach has said, "You're either coaching it, or you're allowing it to happen."

 

[dogmatic001]

All I ask is for our athletic department to Remember Rick Ray.

I'm not saying not to try something better. I'm saying I want us to make damn sure we first have something better to try.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I can live with a “Leach Game” once a year. But, it’s tough when there are at least two of them (LSU & UK) and you’re looking at L’s in Tuscaloosa, UGA and probably in Oxford. Plus, Leach’s record in bowl games isn’t great.

BTW, I think the simplicity of our offense really drives these things more than some psychological issues.

I’m not sure there is consensus agreement on what qualifies as a “Leach Game”. UK and LSU are teams we played on the road with talent level equal to us (UK) or much greater than us (LSU) that are both also well coached. Mullen lost plenty of those games, too.

I think of a “Leach Game” as more along the lines of last year’s Memphis game.

 

[patdog]

I’m not sure there is consensus agreement on what qualifies as a “Leach Game”. UK and LSU are teams we played on the road with talent level equal to us (UK) or much greater than us (LSU) that are both also well coached. Mullen lost plenty of those games, too.

I think of a “Leach Game” as more along the lines of last year’s Memphis game.

It's not so much the fact we lost those two games. It's more the fact we didn't even show up for them. And it is frustrating.

 

[Drebin]

I’m not sure there is consensus agreement on what qualifies as a “Leach Game”. UK and LSU are teams we played on the road with talent level equal to us (UK) or much greater than us (LSU) that are both also well coached. Mullen lost plenty of those games, too.

I think of a “Leach Game” as more along the lines of last year’s Memphis game.

 

[patdog]

There's been a lot of that the last 2-1/2 years.

 

[Perd Hapley]

It's not so much the fact we lost those two games. It's more the fact we didn't even show up for them. And it is frustrating.

Certainly agree on not showing up against UK. Against LSU, not so sure. We came out well prepared and led at half. Just failed to respond to their adjustments.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Certainly agree on not showing up against UK. Against LSU, not so sure. We came out well prepared and led at half. Just failed to respond to their adjustments.

Correct. Lsu adjust to not let will sit back and have time or be able to run. They rolled the dice that will wasn't good enough to beat them if they brought the house.

Kentucky was the first team to try that again.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

There's been a lot of that the last 2-1/2 years.

What are ya'll arguing? That we should have won the game even with our C+ effort? Or that we should never have a C+ effort?

 

[aTotal360]

I can deal with a Leach Loss assuming there is a Leach Win.

 

[Seinfeld]

What are ya'll arguing? That we should have won the game even with our C+ effort? Or that we should never have a C+ effort?

A C+ effort might’ve won Saturday night. What we witnessed was well below that

 

[OG Goat Holder]

A C+ effort might’ve won Saturday night. What we witnessed was well below that

Not when Kentucky brings the A game. At home. At night.

I tried to warn ya'll but of course you don't listen. Now you act all surprised.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Not when Kentucky brings the A game. At home. At night.

I tried to warn ya'll but of course you don't listen. Now you act all surprised.

So you are saying we suck? And shouldn't have been favored to beat them after we just skull drug to SEC teams?

 

[Perd Hapley]

My goal posts have not moved. Preseason prediction for me was 7-5 with us losing 3 of 4 to LSU, Ark, UK, and OM….losing both to Bama / UGA, and winning the rest. And I was mostly fine with that if it played out that way….due to the difficulty of this schedule. As it stands now, that looks to be where we are tracking.

There will apparently forever be philosophical differences between those who are fine with 7-5 against this year’s schedule and those who are not, so I’m just not going to comment any more on that.

 

[Drebin]

My goal posts have not moved. Preseason prediction for me was 7-5 with us losing 3 of 4 to LSU, Ark, UK, and OM….losing both to Bama / UGA, and winning the rest. And I was mostly fine with that if it played out that way….due to the difficulty of this schedule. As it stands now, that looks to be where we are tracking.

There will apparently forever be philosophical differences between those who are fine with 7-5 against this year’s schedule and those who are not, so there’s no further point in commenting any more on that.

Again, there's a difference between being okay with 7-5 if you play well and win the games you're supposed to, and being 7-5 but you should've been 9-3 but you **** the bed twice. When we were 5-1 and going into Lexington as favorites, you weren't feeling good about 7-5. Your expectations were higher.

Don't be dishonest about it. It's not a good look.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

So you are saying we suck? And shouldn't have been favored to beat them after we just skull drug to SEC teams?

No, we don't suck.

No, we should not have been favored. Night road games also should add about a 7-10 point swing rather than 3 like Vegas says.

It's generally hard to keep up the same effort week in, week out. Those last two games were at home. Surely you get this. Just hard-headed.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

I totally agree. I mean seriously folks. It's year three and with this loss winning the west is an uphill battle. Any coach worth his weight would win the west at such a football juggernaut, a veritable powerhouse. I say we dismantle this program starting on out bye week.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

The fans content with 7-5 every year are casual fans that don't really give a **** about sports. 7-5 should be a rebuilding year with more younger players. This year is a very experienced team.

 

[Thumbs Down]

I totally agree. I mean seriously folks. It's year three and with this loss winning the west is an uphill battle. Any coach worth his weight would win the west at such a football juggernaut, a veritable powerhouse. I say we dismantle this program starting on out bye week.

 

[Walkthedawg]

The way Mullen was able to prevent those type losses is more of a unicorn sort of thing.

Except he didn’t prevent them

The South Alabama game at home in 16
He never beat UM with Dak
Northwestern in the Gator Bowl
The we believe and then those 3 in 2012
The Orange bowl loss to a purely one dimensional GT.
BYU in 16
UM loss in 17.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Again, there's a difference between being okay with 7-5 if you play well and win the games you're supposed to, and being 7-5 but you should've been 9-3 but you **** the bed twice. When we were 5-1 and going into Lexington as favorites, you weren't feeling good about 7-5. Your expectations were higher.

Don't be dishonest about it. It's not a good look.

Go check my post history in last week’s threads. I was fully prepared for a potential loss and said it was going to be a close game that we probably wouldn’t win without at least a B+ effort. Also said we wouldn’t go 3-0 against UK, Auburn, and OM but hopefully we could swing 2-1. I viewed the UK game as the likely difference between 8-4 and 7-5 and that’s again where it seems to be headed.

As far as my expectations? There just isn’t much difference to me between 8-4 and 7-5, unless one involves winning the Egg Bowl and one doesn’t. In that case, give me whichever one gives us the trophy. Otherwise, we’re only talking about the difference of Charlotte vs. Jacksonville or Nashville vs. Memphis or what have you. In neither case are we seriously competing for anything.

I’ll jump in the anti-Leach camp if we do something ridiculous like drop a home game against Auburn and don’t make up for it with a W over Bama, UGA, or OM. But if the chalk holds, its a decent year in my book….given the schedule. Not great, but decent.

 

[Drebin]

Go check my post history in last week’s threads. I was fully prepared for a potential loss and said it was going to be a close game that we probably wouldn’t win without at least a B+ effort. Also said we wouldn’t go 3-0 against UK, Auburn, and OM but hopefully we could swing 2-1. I viewed the UK game as the likely difference between 8-4 and 7-5 and that’s again where it seems to be headed.

As far as my expectations? There just isn’t much difference to me between 8-4 and 7-5, unless one involves winning the Egg Bowl and one doesn’t. In that case, give me whichever one gives us the trophy. Otherwise, we’re only talking about the difference of Charlotte vs. Jacksonville or Nashville vs. Memphis or what have you. In neither case are we seriously competing for anything.

I’ll jump in the anti-Leach camp if we do something ridiculous like drop a home game against Auburn and don’t make up for it with a W over Bama, UGA, or OM. But if the chalk holds, its a decent year in my book….given the schedule. Not great, but decent.

 

[Perd Hapley]

The fans content with 7-5 every year are casual fans that don't really give a **** about sports. 7-5 should be a rebuilding year with more younger players. This year is a very experienced team.

Nobody said they were content with it every year. But in a year with UGA as a home game and away games against 2 teams likely to win 10+ games, 2 teams likely to win 8+, and another home game against an 8-9 win Arkansas team…its a decent year. Schedule matters a lot. Next year’s team won’t be as experienced, but may have more talent and should win more against a much more friendly schedule.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

So I read through several of these same thread saying the same thing this morning not one of them have mentioned losing the Center we've had since last year right at the beginning of the game. Also missed the thread where our Best running back went out after two fantastic carries. Let's face it boys we have some real holes in our depth and everyone outside of the big boys paying guys big Bucks has the same problem. What's even funnier is any coach would have been trying to address these issues the past two years but you guys act like Leach has just ignored them while pining for Key West.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

No, we don't suck.

No, we should not have been favored. Night road games also should add about a 7-10 point swing rather than 3 like Vegas says.

It's generally hard to keep up the same effort week in, week out. Those last two games were at home. Surely you get this. Just hard-headed.

Coming from the guy that thought Moorhead was going to pull it together don't think I haven't forgotten all your hot takes from that era

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

I had us going 8-4 with an Egg Bowl win so we are technically still on pace, although it’s tough to feel great about the Egg Bowl at the moment.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Coming from the guy that thought Moorhead was going to pull it together don't think I haven't forgotten all your hot takes from that era

Never did I once say that. I did say that you should give the man until the end of the season, and not sabotage him, like you’re trying to do now with Leach. We did, and he ultimately proved he couldn’t handle it.

you’re really getting desperate to find something to hang me on now, aren’t you?

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

I had us going 8-4 with an Egg Bowl win so we are technically still on pace, although it’s tough to feel great about the Egg Bowl at the moment.

Probably the most creative offense we will face. Not the most talented. But they are creative with the run game and pass game to make up for their lack of talent this year. They definitely play to their strengths. I'm interested to see how they do their next few games though. They boat race lsu, Ark, TAMU I'll be more impressed

 

[olblue]

Not when Kentucky brings the A game. At home. At night.

I tried to warn ya'll but of course you don't listen. Now you act all surprised.

Two things. First. UK didn’t exactly bring their A game. Especially in the first half.

Second, you are a wedge no matter what moniker you use to post under. Always have been. Always will be.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Except he didn’t prevent them

The South Alabama game at home in 16
He never beat UM with Dak
Northwestern in the Gator Bowl
The we believe and then those 3 in 2012
The Orange bowl loss to a purely one dimensional GT.
BYU in 16
UM loss in 17.

How in the world have you forgotten about Dak Prescott's greatest moment as a Bulldog?

I mean, am I just an oddball for having the 2013 Egg Bowl as literally my #1 favorite/unforgettable game I've ever attended?

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Never did I once say that. I did say that you should give the man until the end of the season, and not sabotage him, like you’re trying to do now with Leach. We did, and he ultimately proved he couldn’t handle it.

you’re really getting desperate to find something to hang me on now, aren’t you?

I'm not trying to sabotage leach. Haven't said once to fire him. I think he's a good coach. Yet to be seen if he's a great coach here. But it doesn't look likely he will have a great season here yet. Not unless he can figure out how to win some tough games on the road when you need them. I do t expect leach to get fired and don't want him fired unless he gets embarrassed in the egg bowl again and we are 6-6 again. Just hard to see him having that special season given our track record to date. I'm just doubtful at this point. And when your offense and defends ***** the bed on game you will always be a mediocre team and not a great team. Just like Ark and Tamu are not good teams.

Goat, I don't have to be desperate to hang anything on you. That's too easy and your reputation precedes you. I'm just waiting for you to change your personality to argue against yourself when/if tides change.

 

[thekimmer]

Except he didn’t prevent them

The South Alabama game at home in 16
He never beat UM with Dak
Northwestern in the Gator Bowl
The we believe and then those 3 in 2012
The Orange bowl loss to a purely one dimensional GT.
BYU in 16
UM loss in 17.

2013 Mullen beat UM with Dak.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I'm not trying to sabotage leach. Haven't said once to fire him. I think he's a good coach. Yet to be seen if he's a great coach here. But it doesn't look likely he will have a great season here yet. Not unless he can figure out how to win some tough games on the road when you need them. I do t expect leach to get fired and don't want him fired unless he gets embarrassed in the egg bowl again and we are 6-6 again. Just hard to see him having that special season given our track record to date. I'm just doubtful at this point. And when your offense and defends ***** the bed on game you will always be a mediocre team and not a great team. Just like Ark and Tamu are not good teams.

Goat, I don't have to be desperate to hang anything on you. That's too easy and your reputation precedes you. I'm just waiting for you to change your personality to argue against yourself when/if tides change.

Your hero Mullen didn't have a great season until Year 6. We've been over this countless times but you are willfully ignorant. It didn't "look likely" that he'd have that 9/10-win regular season either, until he was allowed time to build up to it.

There is hard evidence from Texas Tech and Washington State that Leach will get there. You are simply wrong with your assumptions right now.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Your hero Mullen didn't have a great season until Year 6. We've been over this countless times but you are willfully ignorant. It didn't "look likely" that he'd have that 9/10-win regular season either, until he was allowed time to build up to it.

In fairness, finishing #15 in 2010 should qualify as a great season.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Honest question. Is Leach coaching any different here than he did at his other HC jobs or is he just about what we should have expected ?