What could a MSU-MUW merger do for Columbus?

[StateCollege]

While I don't really have any first hand knowledge, the general consensus seems to be that Columbus isn't exactly thriving. Declining population, issues with crime, etc.

If the merger goes through, I would expect a significant investment from the University (and/or IHL) to improve the facilities and make it a more attractive institution. Could this have a a notable positive impact on the City of Columbus? I would think an official MSU presence would be a big win for the city. A stronger Golden Triangle greatly benefits MSU and hopefully this could be a step in the right direction.

 

[Mr. Cook]

What's in it for MSU? Leveraging more funds from the Legislature? Sounds more like inheriting a headache.

Until the Golden Triangle physically moves to within 2 hours of real civilization or something resembling a high quality of life, I would expect a very slow CAGR for the next several decades

Until then, the place to shop is Leigh Mall**********

 

[STATEgrad04]

What's in it for MSU? Leveraging more funds from the Legislature? Sounds more like inheriting a headache.

Until the Golden Triangle physically moves to within 2 hours of real civilization or something resembling a high quality of life, I would expect a very slow CAGR for the next several decades

Until then, the place to shop is Leigh Mall**********

Tupelo is only about an hour away, and Tuscaloosa is about an hour and a half.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

What's in it for MSU? Leveraging more funds from the Legislature? Sounds more like inheriting a headache.

Yep.

Keenum had better have some funding ready.

Whoever is in charge of the MSU Physical Plant just got a lot more headaches.

Either that person will retire or will be paid substantially more.

Oh yeah, say goodbye to the W’s athletics programs.

Until the Golden Triangle physically moves to within 2 hours of real civilization or something resembling a high quality of life, I would expect a very slow CAGR for the next several decades

Until then, the place to shop is Leigh Mall**********

The best cultural part of MSU is still at Meridian.

 

[beachbumdawg]

Oh yeah, say goodbye to the W’s athletics programs.

My initial thought too
Know two kids playing baseball there (one is one is going)

 

[Maroon Eagle]

My initial thought too
Know two kids playing baseball there (one is one is going)

Yep.

Georgia consolidated several universities and jucos a few years ago.

In those cases where multiple merging institutions had athletics, only one campus had them on their site afterwards.

 

[ToxicTimberDawg]

My initial thought too
Know two kids playing baseball there (one is one is going)

They are probably good enough to play in Starkville. **** sorry low hanging fruit ha

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Tupelo is only about an hour away, and Tuscaloosa is about an hour and a half.

You think that it's good that we are close to Tuscaloosa?

He meant an actual big city. Ideally, we would be an hour or so from Jackson - AND Jackson actually be thriving. And that's not happening anytime soon.

So now we have to wait for the GTR to grow on its own. And even at the rapid pace it's been.....still a long time to grow into a significant metro.

 

[johnson86-1]

While I don't really have any first hand knowledge, the general consensus seems to be that Columbus isn't exactly thriving. Declining population, issues with crime, etc.

If the merger goes through, I would expect a significant investment from the University (and/or IHL) to improve the facilities and make it a more attractive institution. Could this have a a notable positive impact on the City of Columbus? I would think an official MSU presence would be a big win for the city. A stronger Golden Triangle greatly benefits MSU and hopefully this could be a step in the right direction.

I think you have the expectation backwards. I think the purpose of a merger would be to eliminate having two universities within 30 minutes of each other. I don't know what kind of facilities the W has, but I would expect most of them to be abandoned over time, with the exception being those that can't economically be moved (I would think possibly the nursing program fits this?) and those that are suitable for functions that free up space on MSU's main campus (I'm not sure what those would be other than some administrative back office stuff but like AP/AR, but even then, you wouldn't move those functions there unless it let you save money by avoiding new construction on the main campus). I'm not even sure if it would make sense to keep a few classrooms operating to offer classes in Columbus. Do you really need satellite classes within 30 minutes of the main campus? I guess maybe it would make sense to offer some dual enrollment classes in conjuction with Columbus area high schools?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I think you have the expectation backwards. I think the purpose of a merger would be to eliminate having two universities within 30 minutes of each other. I don't know what kind of facilities the W has, but I would expect most of them to be abandoned over time, with the exception being those that can't economically be moved (I would think possibly the nursing program fits this?) and those that are suitable for functions that free up space on MSU's main campus (I'm not sure what those would be other than some administrative back office stuff but like AP/AR, but even then, you wouldn't move those functions there unless it let you save money by avoiding new construction on the main campus). I'm not even sure if it would make sense to keep a few classrooms operating to offer classes in Columbus. Do you really need satellite classes within 30 minutes of the main campus? I guess maybe it would make sense to offer some dual enrollment classes in conjuction with Columbus area high schools?

This is only an option because the W is failing overall. It's not really an exercise in consolidation, like so many of you want. If this happens, I don't think the W's infrastructure is going to be abandoned. The people there sure do not want that.

 

[Dawgg]

I don't know what kind of facilities the W has, but I would expect most of them to be abandoned over time, with the exception being those that can't economically be moved (I would think possibly the nursing program fits this?) and those that are suitable for functions that free up space on MSU's main campus (I'm not sure what those would be other than some administrative back office stuff but like AP/AR, but even then, you wouldn't move those functions there unless it let you save money by avoiding new construction on the main campus).

One article about the potential merger mentioned that a number of MUW buildings are in the National Historical Register. In my experience owning older homes and dealing with historical buildings, that tends to limit what can be demolished, abandoned, or significantly changed. I don’t know if that is a problem unique to The W or if every campus has that problem, but it could be an issue for any real ‘overhaul’ Mississippi State/the IHL/the legislature has in mind.

 

[Mr. Cook]

Tupelo is only about an hour away, and Tuscaloosa is about an hour and a half.

Really

 

[Mr. Cook]

You think that it's good that we are close to Tuscaloosa?

He meant an actual big city. Ideally, we would be an hour or so from Jackson - AND Jackson actually be thriving. And that's not happening anytime soon.

So now we have to wait for the GTR to grow on its own. And even at the rapid pace it's been.....still a long time to grow into a significant metro.

Exactly why I am in agreement with you that Jackson needs more investment. The state capital must at least looks like it thrives. It is the beacon of the state

 

[johnson86-1]

This is only an option because the W is failing overall. It's not really an exercise in consolidation, like so many of you want. If this happens, I don't think the W's infrastructure is going to be abandoned. The people there sure do not want that.

Of course the people there don't want that. They want other people's money to be used to keep the W as a going concern because that's what's in their self interest.

But MSU taking over the W doesn't really do anything to change whether the W makes sense as it currently exists. Will it be marginally more attractive to potential students to have an MSU degree instead of one from the W? Probably a little bit? But the main problem for the W still remains, which is that it's a small school without any cachet in a place that most people aren't dying to live in. Putting MSU on the degree doesn't really change any of that. It's either going to have to become a satellite campus with limited offerings (at best), or it's just going to be a drain on MSU.

 

[STATEgrad04]

Really

you dont consider those to be real civilization or quality of life places? I honestly thought they would fit the description...

 

[BrunswickDawg]

One article about the potential merger mentioned that a number of MUW buildings are in the National Historical Register. In my experience owning older homes and dealing with historical buildings, that tends to limit what can be demolished, abandoned, or significantly changed. I don’t know if that is a problem unique to The W or if every campus has that problem, but it could be an issue for any real ‘overhaul’ Mississippi State/the IHL/the legislature has in mind.

Most of the W campus is on the National Register - and that is not uncommon to most university campuses including MSU (18 buildings are on the NR). It does create some limitations in how state and federal money is spent, but does not always prevent demolition. If MSU works creatively you could easily renovate and move some programs to Columbus - the Architecture program would be a natural fit, and start a Historic Preservation degree program. Leave and expand the Nursing program and move MSU's health related programs over to Columbus and make it the MSU Medical School. If we have worthwhile leadership we can use this to grow MSU in a positive manner.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

you dont consider those to be real civilization or quality of life places? I honestly thought they would fit the description...

I remember when I was a student at State and Evans Hall had t-shirts with the words:

Evans: It’s not the end of the world but you can see it from here.

Of course my favorite was if I remember correctly:

Evans: Nothing Suttle happening here.

 

[aTotal360]

If MSU takes it over, the FIRST thing that needs to happen is firing most of the people in the admissions department. Especially the ones in charge of recruitment.

 

[StateCollege]

I think you have the expectation backwards. I think the purpose of a merger would be to eliminate having two universities within 30 minutes of each other. I don't know what kind of facilities the W has, but I would expect most of them to be abandoned over time, with the exception being those that can't economically be moved (I would think possibly the nursing program fits this?) and those that are suitable for functions that free up space on MSU's main campus (I'm not sure what those would be other than some administrative back office stuff but like AP/AR, but even then, you wouldn't move those functions there unless it let you save money by avoiding new construction on the main campus). I'm not even sure if it would make sense to keep a few classrooms operating to offer classes in Columbus. Do you really need satellite classes within 30 minutes of the main campus? I guess maybe it would make sense to offer some dual enrollment classes in conjuction with Columbus area high schools?

While there could certainly be an element of "scaling down", I don't think MSU would want to have a half abandoned campus under its umbrella. If it becomes MSU-Columbus or The W at MSU, its then part of the MSU brand. Whether we put up the money, or it comes from IHL, it feels like a "if you are gonna do something, do it right" situation.

 

[L4Dawg]

I hope MSU can dodge this bullet. I can see nothing positive from it for us. I CAN see it becoming an enormous drain on the University budget for very little return.

 

[Mr. Cook]

you dont consider those to be real civilization or quality of life places? I honestly thought they would fit the description...

I do not and their population based and QOL rankings speak for themselves

Goat has spoken on this often. And while he and I have “crossed swords” over economic development, we do agree on how Mississippi has fallen short in this area

Tuscaloosa is an over- glorified college town built on the outlying success of college football. Nothing more

 

[Mr. Cook]

Whether we put up the money, or it comes from IHL, it feels like a "if you are gonna do something, do it right" situation.

Oh, MSU has a great track record of doing it the “right way”********

 

[Maroon13]

I do not and their population based and QOL rankings speak for themselves

Tuscaloosa is an over- glorified college town built on the outlying success of college football. Nothing more

just because you like the football team in Starkville and not Tuscaloosa doesn't mean a thing about Tuscaloosa or Birmingham.

Columbus is two hours from Birmingham. Columbus cable did carry Tuscaloosa and Birmingham Tv stations. The Dispatch covered events in Tuscaloosa. The citizens of Columbus went to shop in Tuscaloosa and Birmingham. Oh and btw, jackson was never even thought of in the Columbus area. Nobody there gives a damn about Jackson because they do have Tuscaloosa and Birmingham within two hours.

 

[Mr. Cook]

just because you like the football team in Starkville and not Tuscaloosa doesn't mean a thing about Tuscaloosa or Birmingham.

Columbus is two hours from Birmingham. Columbus cable did carry Tuscaloosa and Birmingham Tv stations. The Dispatch covered events in Tuscaloosa. The citizens of Columbus went to shop in Tuscaloosa and Birmingham. Oh and btw, jackson was never even thought of in the Columbus area. Nobody there gives a damn about Jackson because they do have Tuscaloosa and Birmingham within two hours.

And nobody give a damn about Columbus.

 

[Duke Humphrey]

While I don't really have any first hand knowledge, the general consensus seems to be that Columbus isn't exactly thriving. Declining population, issues with crime, etc.

If the merger goes through, I would expect a significant investment from the University (and/or IHL) to improve the facilities and make it a more attractive institution. Could this have a a notable positive impact on the City of Columbus? I would think an official MSU presence would be a big win for the city. A stronger Golden Triangle greatly benefits MSU and hopefully this could be a step in the right direction.

MSU has no interest in running a Columbus campus. They do have interest in absorbing nursing, speech path and culinary arts

I’m told MSU is/was making play for MSMS to part enter with new Starkville High on MSU’s campus (which would be awesome for Starkville and the community), but MUW so poorly rolled out their name change it made the Leg realize the whole thing needs to be examined and here we are.

I do hope they can find a way to get MSMS to Starkville and share services with new SHS

 

[Anon1664516582]

Tupelo is only about an hour away, and Tuscaloosa is about an hour and a half.

Really? Never knew that before.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Really? Never knew that before.

Don’t forget about Noxapater.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

just because you like the football team in Starkville and not Tuscaloosa doesn't mean a thing about Tuscaloosa or Birmingham.

Columbus is two hours from Birmingham. Columbus cable did carry Tuscaloosa and Birmingham Tv stations. The Dispatch covered events in Tuscaloosa. The citizens of Columbus went to shop in Tuscaloosa and Birmingham. Oh and btw, jackson was never even thought of in the Columbus area. Nobody there gives a damn about Jackson because they do have Tuscaloosa and Birmingham within two hours.

Again, do you think in any way that this is a good thing? That's kind of the point. We are Mississippi State University, and most of our college town (and surrounding areas - namely Columbus) would choose to go to Alabama to spend their shopping money. This is because there is not a viable MS city nearby. It's so 17ed up that we have to cross 17ing ALABAMA'S campus to get to this nearest major city as well.

And it's like this all over the damn state. Oxford people have to go to Memphis. Jackson/George/Greene Counties are booming, but they all go to Mobile. And of course you have NOLA that rakes in MS regularly for a variety of reasons. And the whole state goes elsewhere to vacation. And again, I'm not blaming them, there's no other option.

Mississippi literally could not be designed any worse. It's almost as if it was done intentionally in order to invest in agriculture only and stay rural. Even the capital - our ONE shot for a viable homegrown area - was built in a swamp that is prone to horrible weather. And our only decent area that is thriving - Gulfport/Biloxi - was built DIRECTLY on the damn water in an area prone to major hurricanes and deep storm surge.

 

[Xenomorph]

Yeah…. I don’t see a viable path to success here. I figure you’ll have to horse whip MSU employees to take on duties that involve anything W related.

And some of y’all are smoking crack if you think MSU would ever consider moving a high profile program or two from Starkville to Columbus.

When the most valuable program a university has is designed for high school students you don’t really have a university at all.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Yeah…. I don’t see a viable path to success here. I figure you’ll have to horse whip MSU employees to
take on duties that involve anything W related.

And some of y’all are smoking crack if you think MSU would ever consider moving a high profile program or two from Starkville to Columbus.

When the most valuable program a university has is designed for high school students you don’t really have a university at all.

Yeah. I don't know much about the W other than what I read here. If this nursing program or whatever isn't viable enough to keep, sounds like this may be a non-starter.

It's funny that all the folks who have wanted muh consolidation over the years, whether it's in college programs or high school districts, are really only doing it to cut jobs and allegedly save the state money, which will be spent elsewhere. There's no wonder we don't have any growth, our people don't understand it.

I understand the idea of taking 2 mid-level things and combining resources to make a better thing. But the point is not simply addition to survive. You need an exponential effect to make this worth the upfront cost.

 

[Ranchdawg]

I received my MAT from MUW. They have an excellent teaching program at the W. The nursing program and culinary programs are the best in Mississippi. We have friends in Florida that sent their son to MUW because they felt the bachelor degree from MUW was better than the Cordon Blue school in Paris. There is some gold to mine from MUW and it will bolster our attendance numbers. I have always thought of MUW as the women's school for State.

 

[The Peeper]

Oh, MSU has a great track record of doing it the “right way”********

Sylvester Croom

 

[The Peeper]

I’m told MSU is/was making play for MSMS to part enter with new Starkville High on MSU’s campus

I do hope they can find a way to get MSMS to Starkville and share services with new SHS

What is "the new Starkville High on MSU's campus" and "new SHS"? Is there a new one being built?

If you are referfing to the Starkville Partnership School on the North side of campus, that is 6th and 7th graders only, far from a high school.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

And nobody give a damn about Columbus.

Columbus ain’t big enough to be small potatoes.

 

[StateCollege]

MSU has no interest in running a Columbus campus. They do have interest in absorbing nursing, speech path and culinary arts

I think these two sentences contradict each other. There is no way that we absorb these programs, move them to Starkville and just mothball the W campus. The IHL would never allow for that, and honestly it wouldn't make much sense. If we absorb the W's programs, there may be some level of restructuring - but we would be running them out of the Columbus campus.

 

[L4Dawg]

Tha

just because you like the football team in Starkville and not Tuscaloosa doesn't mean a thing about Tuscaloosa or Birmingham.

Columbus is two hours from Birmingham. Columbus cable did carry Tuscaloosa and Birmingham Tv stations. The Dispatch covered events in Tuscaloosa. The citizens of Columbus went to shop in Tuscaloosa and Birmingham. Oh and btw, jackson was never even thought of in the Columbus area. Nobody there gives a damn about Jackson because they do have Tuscaloosa and Birmingham within two hours.

That goes for the whole of NE Mississippi. If we look for something other than the Triangle or Tupelo it has traditionally been in Memphis or Birmingham. We only went to Jackson for ballgames and hated doing so. It is a much longer drive. These days Memphis is losing ground to Huntsville and Nashville. Jackson just isn't on the radar at all unless your HS basketball team happens to make it to the Big House for the state tournament.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I think these two sentences contradict each other. There is no way that we absorb these programs, move them to Starkville and just mothball the W campus. The IHL would never allow for that, and honestly it wouldn't make much sense. If we absorb the W's programs, there may be some level of restructuring - but we would be running them out of the Columbus campus.

Y’all are both right.

State will gladly take the programs.

State - as I mentioned earlier - doesn’t want the headaches of the W’s physical plant.

If State is put in charge of the W, I’d like Keenum to ask for State to have autonomy from IHL, direct funding from the state government, and its own Board of Trustees.

Shoot for the Moon, baby.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I think these two sentences contradict each other. There is no way that we absorb these programs, move them to Starkville and just mothball the W campus. The IHL would never allow for that, and honestly it wouldn't make much sense. If we absorb the W's programs, there may be some level of restructuring - but we would be running them out of the Columbus campus.

Yep. It's just the reality of the situation. You have the historical register part, and you would also be seriously destabilizing downtown Columbus. Some may say who cares, but they are a part of the Golden Triangle and 17ing it up does not help Starkville or MSU in any way.

 

[Mr. Cook]

Y’all are both right.

State will gladly take the programs.

State - as I mentioned earlier - doesn’t want the headaches of the W’s physical plant.

If State is put in charge of the W, I’d like Keenum to ask for State to have autonomy from IHL, direct funding from the state government, and its own Board of Trustees.

Shoot for the Moon, baby.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

This is only an option because the W is failing overall. It's not really an exercise in consolidation, like so many of you want. If this happens, I don't think the W's infrastructure is going to be abandoned. The people there sure do not want that.

One article about the potential merger mentioned that a number of MUW buildings are in the National Historical Register. In my experience owning older homes and dealing with historical buildings, that tends to limit what can be demolished, abandoned, or significantly changed. I don’t know if that is a problem unique to The W or if every campus has that problem, but it could be an issue for any real ‘overhaul’ Mississippi State/the IHL/the legislature has in mind.

Unless Robert E. Lee or someone else significant did something in those buildings that was significant..... we shouldn't hold old buildings on a pedestal just because they are old. 125 years isn't old.