What could a MSU-MUW merger do for Columbus?

[Maroon13]

Again, do you think in any way that this is a good thing? That's kind of the point. We are Mississippi State University, and most of our college town (and surrounding areas - namely Columbus) would choose to go to Alabama to spend their shopping money. This is because there is not a viable MS city nearby. It's so 17ed up that we have to cross 17ing ALABAMA'S campus to get to this nearest major city as well.

And it's like this all over the damn state. Oxford people have to go to Memphis. Jackson/George/Greene Counties are booming, but they all go to Mobile. And of course you have NOLA that rakes in MS regularly for a variety of reasons. And the whole state goes elsewhere to vacation. And again, I'm not blaming them, there's no other option.

Mississippi literally could not be designed any worse. It's almost as if it was done intentionally in order to invest in agriculture only and stay rural. Even the capital - our ONE shot for a viable homegrown area - was built in a swamp that is prone to horrible weather. And our only decent area that is thriving - Gulfport/Biloxi - was built DIRECTLY on the damn water in an area prone to major hurricanes and deep storm surge.

I don't think it's a good thing. But I was responding to dudes "nowhere near civilization ".

I admire your passion for Mississippi and Jackson. But I'm 50. When I was in my 20s I was naive enough to think this or that would change. However you layed it out in your post. Mississippi is a fragmented state just because of natural landscape, logistics and partly because other cities/states are close and have more to offer. The whole 45 corridor gravitates toward Alabama because it's just easier to travel that direction than to Jackson.

Speaking of Jackson, it could improve and offer more. That's a challenge for Mississippi and something to work towards. However I was in Jackson for a tournament a month back. The convention center is nice but the area around it.... holy cow... terrible. We stayed in Flowood, ate out once there. Service at the hotel and restaurant was some of the worst I've ever experienced. No exaggeration. Then Saturday we tried to eat late lunch at a popular Eastover spot... terrible service again... ridiculously bad service. Anyways... what area of Mississippi does Jackson really service? Maybe a 80 mile radius? Other than that, New Orleans, mobile, Alabama and Memphis has the state covered.

All this Mississippi stuff is fun to write about but... I'm afraid the state was just dealt a bad hand by the gods of history and it is what it is.

 

[Maroon13]

State should just take over the "W" viable programs at the campus of MSU. The physical campus of MUW can go to EMCC. If they even want it

 

[Villagedawg]

While I don't really have any first hand knowledge, the general consensus seems to be that Columbus isn't exactly thriving. Declining population, issues with crime, etc.

If the merger goes through, I would expect a significant investment from the University (and/or IHL) to improve the facilities and make it a more attractive institution. Could this have a a notable positive impact on the City of Columbus? I would think an official MSU presence would be a big win for the city. A stronger Golden Triangle greatly benefits MSU and hopefully this could be a step in the right direction.

I wouldn't think very much. About as much as it benefits from the W being there. Columbus has some cool things, but is in pretty rough shape. MSU running the W wont have much impact on that I wouldn't think.

 

[Villagedawg]

You think that it's good that we are close to Tuscaloosa?

He meant an actual big city. Ideally, we would be an hour or so from Jackson - AND Jackson actually be thriving. And that's not happening anytime soon.

So now we have to wait for the GTR to grow on its own. And even at the rapid pace it's been.....still a long time to grow into a significant metro.

Tuscaloosa has 236,000 and Tupelo 140,000 in the metros. I know not as large as Jackson, but both are way more viable.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Tuscaloosa has 236,000 and Tupelo 140,000 in the metros. I know not as large as Jackson, but both are way more viable.

You're not following what we meant. We're talking about major, thriving population centers that can go hand in hand with the college town.

We aren't spitting out graduates to go and work in Tuscaloosa. And neither it nor Tupelo is big enough to be a major employer.

I'm talking Tuscaloosa - Birmingham, Auburn - Montgomery (and obviously Atlanta, which counts for about 12 colleges), Athens - Atlanta, Gainesville - Orlando/Tampa/Jacksonville, Baton Rouge - New Orleans, Clemson - Greenville, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Villagedawg]

Tupelo is only about an hour away, and Tuscaloosa is about an hour and a half.

Tuscaloosa is actually a little nearer Columbus than Tupelo is. Roughly an hour to each.

 

[mcfly.sixpack]

I wouldn't think very much. About as much as it benefits from the W being there. Columbus has some cool things, but is in pretty rough shape. MSU running the W wont have much impact on that I wouldn't think.

I’m not sure how much Columbus actually benefits from having the W there. The area surrounding the campus is terrible, no one goes there. It’ll never happen but the programs MSU wants from the W need to be moved to Starkville.

 

[Villagedawg]

You're not following what we meant. We're talking about major, thriving population centers that can go hand in hand with the college town.

We aren't spitting out graduates to go and work in Tuscaloosa. And neither it nor Tupelo is big enough to be a major employer.

I'm talking Tuscaloosa - Birmingham, Auburn - Montgomery (and obviously Atlanta, which counts for about 12 colleges), Athens - Atlanta, Gainesville - Orlando/Tampa/Jacksonville, Baton Rouge - New Orleans, Clemson - Greenville, etc. etc. etc.

Understand. You're absoluely right. Missed that point when you said Jackson.

 

[L4Dawg]

You're not following what we meant. We're talking about major, thriving population centers that can go hand in hand with the college town.

We aren't spitting out graduates to go and work in Tuscaloosa. And neither it nor Tupelo is big enough to be a major employer.

I'm talking Tuscaloosa - Birmingham, Auburn - Montgomery (and obviously Atlanta, which counts for about 12 colleges), Athens - Atlanta, Gainesville - Orlando/Tampa/Jacksonville, Baton Rouge - New Orleans, Clemson - Greenville, etc. etc. etc.

You can go on about Jackson all you want to but absolutely nothing will ever change for the better there until the LOCAL leadership does.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You can go on about Jackson all you want to but absolutely nothing will ever change for the better there until the LOCAL leadership does.

I’m not saying it will. But MSU (and Mississippi) is held back by that. You can ignore it all you want. You’re good at ignoring facts.

Ole Miss is as well. They camouflage it by an out of state house of cards. But their money will run out one day.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Understand. You're absoluely right. Missed that point when you said Jackson.

Basically I was saying we need Jackson to be that city. It’s obviously not. And it’s really not that close anyway.

 

[L4Dawg]

I’m not saying it will. But MSU (and Mississippi) is held back by that. You can ignore it all you want. You’re good at ignoring facts.

Ole Miss is as well. They camouflage it by an out of state house of cards. But their money will run out one day.

We don't pay much attention to Jackson up here. We have no economic ties to Jackson at all. It's a long way away. The only people I know who ever go there are people involved in the state government, people who go to high school championships, and the few very unfortunate people whose insurance won't pay for them to go to UAB or Vanderbilt for very serious illnesses. Fortunately Tupelo can handle all but the worst of those. That's something that Jackson area folks never seem to get. Most of the rest of the state has no economic ties to the place. That means it's absolutely seen as a drag on the economy of the vast majority of the state. If we could cut loose from it we would be immensely better off.

 

[Villagedawg]

you dont consider those to be real civilization or quality of life places? I honestly thought they would fit the description...

They do. Jackson is completely irrelavant to people in Tupelo, Tuscaloosa, Oxford, Desoto, etc.

 

[Villagedawg]

It's almost as if it was done intentionally in order to invest in agriculture only and stay rural.

Apparently little known fact: it was and still is.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

We don't pay much attention to Jackson up here. We have no economic ties to Jackson at all. It's a long way away. The only people I know who ever go there are people involved in the state government, people who go to high school championships, and the few very unfortunate people whose insurance won't pay for them to go to UAB or Vanderbilt for very serious illnesses. Fortunately Tupelo can handle all but the worst of those. That's something that Jackson area folks never seem to get. Most of the rest of the state has no economic ties to the place. That means it's absolutely seen as a drag on the economy of the vast majority of the state. If we could cut loose from it we would be immensely better off.

Understand that man. But I’m talking about the ideal situation here. Obviously extreme north and south MS are independent of Jackson. But surely you see that the state would benefit from a thriving urban area. And we don’t have one.

We are WORLDS behind our neighboring states, due to this. Your little area can’t carry the state. Neither can the coast.

I really wish Memphis or Mobile was inside MS. That would be a major help.

 

[Villagedawg]

I don't think it's a good thing. But I was responding to dudes "nowhere near civilization ".

I admire your passion for Mississippi and Jackson. But I'm 50. When I was in my 20s I was naive enough to think this or that would change. However you layed it out in your post. Mississippi is a fragmented state just because of natural landscape, logistics and partly because other cities/states are close and have more to offer. The whole 45 corridor gravitates toward Alabama because it's just easier to travel that direction than to Jackson.

Speaking of Jackson, it could improve and offer more. That's a challenge for Mississippi and something to work towards. However I was in Jackson for a tournament a month back. The convention center is nice but the area around it.... holy cow... terrible. We stayed in Flowood, ate out once there. Service at the hotel and restaurant was some of the worst I've ever experienced. No exaggeration. Then Saturday we tried to eat late lunch at a popular Eastover spot... terrible service again... ridiculously bad service. Anyways... what area of Mississippi does Jackson really service? Maybe a 80 mile radius? Other than that, New Orleans, mobile, Alabama and Memphis has the state covered.

All this Mississippi stuff is fun to write about but... I'm afraid the state was just dealt a bad hand by the gods of history and it is what it is.

By the people who’ve been running it for 207 years.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Apparently little known fact: it was and still is.

But that’s not a good thing. We need an urban anchor city.

 

[L4Dawg]

But that’s not a good thing. We need an urban anchor city.

Jackson will never be that as long as the local leadership continues to blame others for THEIR problems. Even if it did change and thrive it wouldn't really mean that much to most of the rest of the state. It would mean absolutely nothing to us up here in the NE. We have never had any real ties to Jackson other than the artificial ones associated with the state government. I can't see that we ever will. It's just to far away.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Jackson will never be that as long as the local leadership continues to blame others for THEIR problems. Even if it did change and thrive it wouldn't really mean that much to most of the rest of the state. It would mean absolutely nothing to us up here in the NE. We have never had any real ties to Jackson other than the artificial ones associated with the state government. I can't see that we ever will. It's just to far away.

It's not really about you or your personal life up in NE MS.

A good Jackson will make the state of MS more attractive. That makes Mississippi State more attractive. That's good for all of us. And I would argue that it would eventually probably help your indirectly in some way.

I don't know why I have to explain this so much. Everybody already knows all that shlt about Jackson leadership. That's not an original thought. Nobody really thinks Jackson will be decent anytime soon.

 

[Son_of_34]

What is "the new Starkville High on MSU's campus" and "new SHS"? Is there a new one being built?

If you are referfing to the Starkville Partnership School on the North side of campus, that is 6th and 7th graders only, far from a high school.

That's the partnership middle school...they are in talks to build a partnership high school on campus also

 

[Maroon13]

It's not really about you or your personal life up in NE MS.

A good Jackson will make the state of MS more attractive. That makes Mississippi State more attractive. That's good for all of us. And I would argue that it would eventually probably help your indirectly in some way.

I don't know why I have to explain this so much. Everybody already knows all that shlt about Jackson leadership. That's not an original thought. Nobody really thinks Jackson will be decent anytime soon.

Goat, I think a good example of what you wish for is Arkansas. That is the most insular state I've ever visited. Folks in the far nw, West Memphis and pitiful Blytheville seem to be all Arkansas all the time. I'm not exactly sure why they have that mentality and MS does not. But I'm sure it's the fact that there aren't more border cities. However even in West Memphis/Marion they are proud Arkansans while butted up to Memphis.

Btw, Little Rock, while just ok, is a far better city than Jackson.

 

[L4Dawg]

It's not really about you or your personal life up in NE MS.

A good Jackson will make the state of MS more attractive. That makes Mississippi State more attractive. That's good for all of us. And I would argue that it would eventually probably help your indirectly in some way.

I don't know why I have to explain this so much. Everybody already knows all that shlt about Jackson leadership. That's not an original thought. Nobody really thinks Jackson will be decent anytime soon.

I disagree that Jackson hurts or helps the rest of the State. Central Mississippi sure, but most areas of the state just aren't affected by it that much unless you count the state government. There just aren't that many non-government economic or cultural ties to Jackson in the North or on the Coast. There never have been. The Northeast didn't even have a four lane connection to Jackson till about 30 or so years ago.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Goat, I think a good example of what you wish for is Arkansas. That is the most insular state I've ever visited. Folks in the far nw, West Memphis and pitiful Blytheville seem to be all Arkansas all the time. I'm not exactly sure why they have that mentality and MS does not. But I'm sure it's the fact that there aren't more border cities. However even in West Memphis/Marion they are proud Arkansans while butted up to Memphis.

Btw, Little Rock, while just ok, is a far better city than Jackson.

Sort of, but not really. That's not really my angle. I mean we already have a split state, and that's fine, it will always be that way, Ole Miss is not going anywhere. AL and SC have proven that you can support two nationally relevant programs with a population of about 4-5M. But MS is 3M and stagnant. We need to reverse that number.

Now, bringing it back to AR, they also are around 3M but they are now growing, mainly due to NW AR and Little Rock. So we have aspects of both.

The answer is for Jackson to be viable (like a Little Rock) at minimum. That likely stabilizes the state population. Then we need to add another true economic engine somewhere else. Is that the Coast? Is it the Golden Triangle? Is it Hattiesburg/Laurel? Is it Tupelo? All have advantages and disadvantages, and none of them have a Walmart or Tyson, but a few have universities. So seems to me it's GT or Hattiesburg/Laurel area. Or both. But neither are close to NW AR right now.

SC is the model we should have done, and that would have involved MSU being located in the Jackson area. But that is history.

Can we model AL? I have no idea. We don't have a Birmingham or a Huntsville. We have a half-way between Birmingham and Montgomery shlt-hole that no one cares about.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I disagree that Jackson hurts or helps the rest of the State. Central Mississippi sure, but most areas of the state just aren't affected by it that much unless you count the state government. There just aren't that many non-government economic or cultural ties to Jackson in the North or on the Coast. There never have been. The Northeast didn't even have a four lane connection to Jackson till about 30 or so years ago.

OK, but you're just flat out wrong. And that's fine, most Mississippians probably believe like you, and that's why we continue to stay where we are. And most Mississippians also want to keep things the way they are.

But what most folks don't realize, things either go up or down. Things rarely stay the same.

I don't think you have any idea how far behind the state really is. Even your area.

 

[L4Dawg]

OK, but you're just flat out wrong. And that's fine, most Mississippians probably believe like you, and that's why we continue to stay where we are. And most Mississippians also want to keep things the way they are.

But what most folks don't realize, things either go up or down. Things rarely stay the same.

I don't think you have any idea how far behind the state really is. Even your area.

I probably have a better idea than you do how behind we are. I have traveled quite extensively over the years, and not just in the US. I also have family scattered all over the country.

 

[johnson86-1]

I disagree that Jackson hurts or helps the rest of the State. Central Mississippi sure, but most areas of the state just aren't affected by it that much unless you count the state government. There just aren't that many non-government economic or cultural ties to Jackson in the North or on the Coast. There never have been. The Northeast didn't even have a four lane connection to Jackson till about 30 or so years ago.

Jackson definitely hurts the rest of the state, even if only indirectly. Personally, you might prefer that your kids go to Birmingham or Memphis to live in something of a city because it's closer to Tupelo, but the state needs people, particularly skilled and productive people. Ask somebody in your city management or accounting what their GASB 68 reporting looks like and think about whether you want more or fewer net taxpayers to help cover that. And also think about the fact that while cities have to report that now, under Mississippi law that's technically a state liability, so eventually the state is going to go to where the money is to collect it, regardless of whether the liability was run up by Tupelo or some podunk delta town or Jackson.

There are just too many young productive people that aren't going to want to work and live in a place like Tupelo or Hattiesburg or even the Gulf Coast. It hurts the state immensely that we don't have a city that is attractive to most people.

 

[Villagedawg]

The Northeast didn't even have a four lane connection to Jackson till about 30 or so years ago.

Ahhh. The old Natchez Trace curse. Those were the days! I think the 45 to Starkville and 25 route to Jackson was completed around 2005.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I disagree that Jackson hurts or helps the rest of the State.

How would you know?

You’ve admitted that YDNGAS about Jackson and pay no attention to it.

The argument can be made that the fact YDNGAS about Jackson means you’re not vested in it or the state of Mississippi.

 

[L4Dawg]

Ahhh. The old Natchez Trace curse. Those were the days! I think the 45 to Starkville and 25 route to Jackson was completed around 2005.

I lived in Jackson for a while back in the 80s. The Trace was the only real way to get back up to NE Miss back then.

How would you know?

You’ve admitted that YDNGAS about Jackson and pay no attention to it.

The argument can be made that the fact YDNGAS about Jackson means you’re not vested in it or the state of Mississippi.

Jackson isn't the whole state.

 

[ETK99]

There are just too many young productive people that aren't going to want to work and live in a place like Tupelo or Hattiesburg or even the Gulf Coast. It hurts the state immensely that we don't have a city that is attractive to most people.

So they'll move to a suburb of a city that's basically a Tupelo or Hattiesburg.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Jackson isn't the whole state.

I’ll put it to you this way.

If MSU Sports were the State of Mississippi…

Noxapater is College Baseball

Biloxi is Men’s Basketball

Jackson would be Football

Cue the Comments from the Peanut Gallery about LT being Antar **

 

[beachbumdawg]

So Cliffs

@OG Goat Holder drinks for a buzz and because MS’s structural problems prevent it from thriving …

 

[StateCollege]

I disagree that Jackson hurts or helps the rest of the State. Central Mississippi sure, but most areas of the state just aren't affected by it that much unless you count the state government. There just aren't that many non-government economic or cultural ties to Jackson in the North or on the Coast. There never have been. The Northeast didn't even have a four lane connection to Jackson till about 30 or so years ago.

I think you are undervaluing the importance of perception here. Currently, the State of MS is not an attractive place to the average American. A thriving Jackson would do wonders to change that perception. That trickles down and makes all Mississippians look better. That attracts more residents, tourists, businesses and so on. Just as an exercise, let's have Nashville and Jackson swap places. That drastically changes how each state is perceived. I use them as an example because in 1960, Nashville and Jackson had essentially the same population. Now I'm not suggesting that Jackson could ever reach those heights. But it demonstrates the benefits of having a thriving, attractive urban area and how that can benefit the state as a whole.

A strong Jackson benefits Mississippi State and a strong(er) Mississippi State benefits Tupelo and NE MS.

 

[johnson86-1]

So they'll move to a suburb of a city that's basically a Tupelo or Hattiesburg.

Are you meaning to imply that it's somehow irrational to prefer a suburb the size of Tupelo or Hattiesburg versus just living in Tupelo or Hattiesburg? I think this is part of the challenge Mississippi has, is that it's pretty much by definition filled with people that don't want to live in a city and as a result, has a disproportionate number of people that don't even understand why people want to live in a city. Hell, just living close to a decent airport is a big deal. It can easily be a $1,000 difference on a vacation. Also makes it a lot more feasible to visit more places. Probably a bigger deal is the job opportunities without having to relocate. Lots of people in Mississippi with good jobs are in a position where if they lost them they'd have to choose between relocating or taking a sizeable paycut. Not only would it be a lot less stressful knowing you'd have options without relocating, it's a lot easier to negotiate a pay raise if they know you have other options without relocating.

I think a lot of young people are underestimating how much better their quality of life would be if they weren't dead set on living in a city and partying, but it doesn't help Mississippi with attracting and retaining talent to tell them they don't know what they want. And they don't relocate to Tupelo or Hattiesburg for the most part when they realize living in or adjacent to a city is overrated. But if we had a decent city to attract them to Mississipp in the first part, they might would.

 

[ETK99]

Are you meaning to imply that it's somehow irrational to prefer a suburb the size of Tupelo or Hattiesburg versus just living in Tupelo or Hattiesburg? I think this is part of the challenge Mississippi has, is that it's pretty much by definition filled with people that don't want to live in a city and as a result, has a disproportionate number of people that don't even understand why people want to live in a city. Hell, just living close to a decent airport is a big deal. It can easily be a $1,000 difference on a vacation. Also makes it a lot more feasible to visit more places. Probably a bigger deal is the job opportunities without having to relocate. Lots of people in Mississippi with good jobs are in a position where if they lost them they'd have to choose between relocating or taking a sizeable paycut. Not only would it be a lot less stressful knowing you'd have options without relocating, it's a lot easier to negotiate a pay raise if they know you have other options without relocating.

I think a lot of young people are underestimating how much better their quality of life would be if they weren't dead set on living in a city and partying, but it doesn't help Mississippi with attracting and retaining talent to tell them they don't know what they want. And they don't relocate to Tupelo or Hattiesburg for the most part when they realize living in or adjacent to a city is overrated. But if we had a decent city to attract them to Mississipp in the first part, they might would.

Nah, I just think it's funny. Most State grads aren't going to live in the middle of the city, they're headed to the burbs. Those burbs are more like a Hattiesburg. Obviously there are higher paying jobs outside MS. I think people would move anywhere for a good check.

 

[johnson86-1]

Nah, I just think it's funny. Most State grads aren't going to live in the middle of the city, they're headed to the burbs. Those burbs are more like a Hattiesburg. Obviously there are higher paying jobs outside MS. I think people would move anywhere for a good check.

They are headed to the burbs that are like Hattiesburg except with higher paying jobs, better food and entertainment options, and better accessibility for travel. In other words, places pretty significantly different than Hattiesburg.

 

[Mr. Cook]

[/QUOTE]

Tupelo is only about an hour away, and Tuscaloosa is about an hour and a half.

There’s two real “destination cities” *********

 

[leeinator]

I think you have the expectation backwards. I think the purpose of a merger would be to eliminate having two universities within 30 minutes of each other. I don't know what kind of facilities the W has, but I would expect most of them to be abandoned over time, with the exception being those that can't economically be moved (I would think possibly the nursing program fits this?) and those that are suitable for functions that free up space on MSU's main campus (I'm not sure what those would be other than some administrative back office stuff but like AP/AR, but even then, you wouldn't move those functions there unless it let you save money by avoiding new construction on the main campus). I'nasm not even sure if it would make sense to keep a few classrooms operating to offer classes in Columbus. Do you really need satellite classes within 30 minutes of the main campus? I guess maybe it would make sense to offer some dual enrollment classes in conjuction with Columbus area high schools?

The W has a top notch nursing school and a nice culinary arts program which is becoming well known. Teaching has a good program as well. I think the campus should be kept, but maybe some of the duplicated programs could be merged at one location or the other. They have a brand new physical activities building similar to Sanderson Center. Maybe MSU could start a swimming/diving program or even a gymnastics team located there. Most don't know this but the W does have a small ROTC program which is affiliated with the MSU ROTC program. My daughter graduated from the W, but commissioned in the ARMY at MSU. With CAFB being local, maybe something with the military could continue.