What happened to Florida (the State) Football?
- Thread starter Bulldog Bruce
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the bigger question is what happened to the state of Texas. Baylor and TCU are the two premier teams in that state.
It’s all coaching. No Spurrier, Bowden, etc. people are looking in the wrong places for coaches and aren’t getting the right fits. Talent is still there but it’s going out of state.
Same for Texas. TX talent is a bit more overrated and maxed out at the high school level. Only reason Texas won it in 2005 was Vince Young and the only reason aTm had their moment was Johnny. The right QB can lift anybody assuming the rest of your recruiting is solid. Jimbo with crab legs is another example, and he wasn’t a FL guy, he was from Birmingham.
It’s not about NIL either. This has been a problem in Florida since Urban Meyer left. Bowden was too old to care at that point and Miami had long since lost their way. They sucked even during Nevin Shapiro, and it’s because Butch Davis’ recruits had filtered out.
I wish I knew the answer to the ‘culture’ question bc it applies to many areas of life. It’s just very difficult to attain.
Same for Texas. TX talent is a bit more overrated and maxed out at the high school level. Only reason Texas won it in 2005 was Vince Young and the only reason aTm had their moment was Johnny. The right QB can lift anybody assuming the rest of your recruiting is solid. Jimbo with crab legs is another example, and he wasn’t a FL guy, he was from Birmingham.
It’s not about NIL either. This has been a problem in Florida since Urban Meyer left. Bowden was too old to care at that point and Miami had long since lost their way. They sucked even during Nevin Shapiro, and it’s because Butch Davis’ recruits had filtered out.
I wish I knew the answer to the ‘culture’ question bc it applies to many areas of life. It’s just very difficult to attain.
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In the case of Florida, they fired a good coach after one bad season.
Florida would have been in a 12-team CFP years 1, 2, and 3 under Mullen. Year 4 was bad, so they fired him.
The first year of the 12-team playoff will be year 3 for Napier. Will they fire him if he isn't in the CFP? What about after year 4?
Florida would have been in a 12-team CFP years 1, 2, and 3 under Mullen. Year 4 was bad, so they fired him.
The first year of the 12-team playoff will be year 3 for Napier. Will they fire him if he isn't in the CFP? What about after year 4?
FSU won 10 games last year, and they’re a preseason Top 10 team this year. They’re +380 to make the CFBPlayoff on FanDuel currently. That’s better odds than LSU (+430). They did come out of nowhere last year though.
Miami has talent issues. Maybe Cristobal can fix it.
UF has issues at AD**
Miami has talent issues. Maybe Cristobal can fix it.
UF has issues at AD**
FSU is supposed to be really good this year. FSU vs LSU in Orlando is by far the most interesting game of opening weekend. If the Noles can beat LSU for a second year in a row, they have a great chance to be in the playoff mix.
I do think Cristobal is a good coach, I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t improve Miami in the next year or two.
Stricklin is going to get himself fired if Napier is a bust.
I do think Cristobal is a good coach, I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t improve Miami in the next year or two.
Stricklin is going to get himself fired if Napier is a bust.
I totally misread the situation, I thought Sunbelt Billy was going to be good and Brian Kelly was going to be meh. I was backassward on that one.
You beat me to it. They were still pretty good when he took over and he left them in the *******.
Like others said, FSU was pretty good last year and could win the ACC this year with a heisman contender at qb.
Miami is going to be good by next year I imagine. Cristobal is a pretty damn good coach and recruited.
UF is a **** show. You can never say never anymore with the transfer portal, but I wouldn’t be shocked if UF wanders the wilderness for a while like Tennessee had been doing before Heupel. I don’t think Napier is a great coach and they have a bozo for an AD.
Miami is going to be good by next year I imagine. Cristobal is a pretty damn good coach and recruited.
UF is a **** show. You can never say never anymore with the transfer portal, but I wouldn’t be shocked if UF wanders the wilderness for a while like Tennessee had been doing before Heupel. I don’t think Napier is a great coach and they have a bozo for an AD.
Y’all are missing the point.
Back in the day Florida, FSU and Miami had talent that resembled what Alabama, Georgia, Clemson and Ohio State are trotting out now. It doesn’t really matter that Florida was decent under Mullen or that FSU might be ‘good’ next year. They aren’t what they were. It’s another level, another gear.
Back in the day Florida, FSU and Miami had talent that resembled what Alabama, Georgia, Clemson and Ohio State are trotting out now. It doesn’t really matter that Florida was decent under Mullen or that FSU might be ‘good’ next year. They aren’t what they were. It’s another level, another gear.
I think you just chalk that up to the expansion of national recruiting. Those three aren’t getting all the top players from Florida anymore.
We have a winner. They have to match the $$$ of Alabama, Georgia and OSU if they want to return to permanence: Florida Top 100
I was never really sure about SunBelt Billy, but I sure wanted him at MSU.....I knew Brian Kelly was going to be good...dude has won big at both Cincy at Notre Dame....now put him at LSU with all that talent he never had at those other places.....I think he wins a natty at some point there...
Yeah, I think the combination of the SEC’s rise in power and the expansion of the national recruiting footprint just buried schools like Miami and FSU. They had enjoyed one of the richest recruiting areas in the country for decades, and it’s funny to think that there was actually a time when schools like Auburn or Tennessee couldn’t afford to constantly be running too far outside of their home area, but those days are long gone. The BIG10 is the only conference that’s been able to keep up with the SEC’s ESPN $$, and even that is really only from a dollars and cents perspective. Not on the field performance
As far as UF, they really have no excuse as far as I’m concerned. A lot of poor hires and mismanagement of resources
As far as UF, they really have no excuse as far as I’m concerned. A lot of poor hires and mismanagement of resources
Despite what happens at Florida, he’s still a guy that I think could succeed at state. What he does on offense can be recruited and executed here at State. By succeed at state I do mean essentially do what Mullen did.
He didn't take our offer so he's dead to me. I like Arnett more and think he will be successful as our head coach. His emotions carry over to the team. IMHO, I believe we are seeing the long term plan for CZA when he was hired. I think Coach Leach was going to retire after a couple of more years coaching.
I tend to agree. Different guys fit different jobs. Danny Shorts never fit at Florida, and neither does Billy Bob, but both are perfect for MSU.
Mullen didn't really even fit when he was OC. They won because of Urban's recruiting.
I didn’t want say I wanted to fire arnett and hire Napier. Never even hinted at anything like that. Simply said, he’s a guy I think could be successful here and his stint at Florida likely won’t change my mind on that.
What we're trying to figure out is, why? I mean you can just as easily say that Alabama/Ohio State/Georgia/Clemson won't get those recruits in the next 10 years, or they didn't back in the 90s or whenever. The riddle is how to create that program culture that attracts so many recruits, even when they have to come in, battle, and may sit the bench for 2 years. And again, don't say NIL, because the Florida schools are no stranger to money, they've all done it before. Everybody pays players or NIL, whatever you want to call it, that just gets you in the game. At the end of the day, it's still much of the same things that help you recruit high school talent. Program, coaching, culture, degrees, etc.
The Florida schools are not like Nebraska or Notre Dame, who had big advantages and now don't. To me they are like Tennessee, just a series of bad coaching hires with no real strategy for what they are trying to do. Except they have much more local talent around them.
I didn't accuse you of saying that and sorry if you thought that. Both coaches are where they are. I agree that he probably would have been successful here but that opportunity has passed.
I'm just curious if NIL becomes window dressing long term. If I'm a player being recruited I want the money from a bagman unreported like Alabama has done it for years. That way I evade taxes and don't look greedy. I wonder how much of that still goes on?
And look at it this way: Alabama offers $250k NIL to a player and Florida counters with $300k. The player chooses Alabama because a bagman delivers an additional $100k. With this scenario Alabama gets to claim superiority of facilities, coaching and fanbase because everyone know a player wants to be a part of their tradition. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
The players that used to sit on the bench and provide quality depth at FSU, UF, and UM are now starting at UCF, USF, FIU, and FAU. Florida went from three D1A programs to seven.
Why wouldn't this factor be the same at any school? Obviously it's not the same number of in-state schools at these other places but I'm sure it's pretty comparable to population. And besides, a football scholarship is a full ride so there's nothing magical about being in-state.
The full scholarship negates this. Not really sure what part of post you aimed that 'not really' at, because the sheer number doesn't really seem to matter.
Ohio State has to contend with Cincinnati, Ohio, Bowling Green, Kent State, Akron and Miami. Doesn't seem to hurt them. Not to mention there were 12 4 and 5 star players in OH last year, and there were 80 in FL, and half the population in OH.
I don't think this is a factor. Especially when the biggest thing is the eye test......even the UF, FSU, and Miami starters don't look the part and haven't in a decade. FSU didn't really look the part in 2013.
It's a combination of several things. One is the growth and expansion of other schools. UCF, USF, FIU, and FAU are competing with them for talent. Not just the 4* and 5*'s that everyone raids Florida for but the high 3*'s and the diamonds in the rough.
And Coaching. Who was the last great coach at any of the big 3? Jimbo? arguably, or did he get lucky with Jameis? Jimbo's time at TAMU seems like maybe it was more Jameis than Jimbo.
All of those Ohio schools have been 1A for a LONG time. The dynamic there has had a long time to settle. That was not the case in Florida. The dynamic that had been in place for a long time was upset in a very short time frame.
We're in a time where you can communicate with anyone in the world instantly. 20-30 years ago you had to either talk on the phone or travel and meet a player / his family. Now coaches have easy access to anyone. A lot easier to build relationships with players on the other side of the country. It doesn't matter where you're at or where the player is from. I'd say the same goes for comfort level of sending your son to play for an out of state school. You can just pull up your phone and facetime whenever you want. Sending your kid from south Florida to Ohio St. 20 years ago meant you may not see their face for 4 months.
Going to school close to home doesn't matter as much in recruiting anymore. So those traditional hotbeds have a lot more competition.
It's crazy because this all seems so simple. We know all 3 of those programs can be elite at the same time, as they've done it before and the state's population has only gotten bigger since then.
Florida - I think Spurrier showed them the way. Speed Speed Speed. Wide open. The receivers they can normally get rival what LSU can get talent-wise. Use it. Even when Urban was winning big in a more dysfunctional manner, they still had elite receivers with track speed. Just happened to have a guy named Tebow that made it make sense to be a little more ground-heavy. I actually think Mike Leach would have been perfect for Florida.
Florida State - I'm not really sure on them. I think they need a tough-nosed coach who instills a little bit of the Southern Miss Nasty Bunch type attitude. After all, that's what they are. They are a women's school too.
Miami - This is even harder, since they can't really be the U anymore and now they play up at Hard Rock rather than the Orange Bowl. I don't know their formula, I guess they need to get back to the Schnelly/Butch Davis type approach, be the U without all the trash associated with it. Cristobal might can build it. I think Lane is actually very good about 'controlling' his program too, while still getting them to play with an edge.
Miami, from all accounts, has had an administration problem for a long time now. That doesn't mean that the school administration is bad; in fact, their academics confirm the administration is very good. It's just that football isn't a priority for them. They have all the resources (alumni, location, academics, endowment, budget, etc.) to make themselves into an Alabama/Georgia/Ohio State, but they have an administration that wants them to be known as the premier center of academia in the state over being the premier football school in the state.
Interesting, and yeah, hard to see that coexisting with football prowess. Notre Dame can't even seem to get it right ever since they went the academic route with no Prop-48s. Stanford, Vanderbilt, Duke, Northwestern....nope. Hard to envision Miami being in that same boat but I guess that's what they want.
I imagine very little of that still goes on. Now that NIL can essentially be a tax write off for these big wigs with a lot of money, they've got no reason to spend the same money and it not be tax deductible.
Yeah, I honestly didn't realize until I watched "The U" 30 for 30 that they were a private school yearning to be 'the Harvard of the South' and the administration was actually on the brink of killing football until Howard Schnellenberger took over. Then, even with success and National Championships and money rolling in, the administration always took the approach that football is something that they do, not something that they are. That started way back then and it still doesn't seem to have progressed.
Herbstreit noted it a couple of years ago:
Kirk Herbstreit critiques Miami administration: 'I guess football doesn't matter'
ESPN's Kirk Herbstreit was direct in his diagnosis of the long-standing problems facing the Miami Hurricanes football program.
www.palmbeachpost.com
Wrong on all counts. 80% of high school recruiting is still done under the table. And NIL donations are not tax deductible, as the collectives are not (supposed to be) 501c3s. NCAA is cracking down on this. BI is like a 501c7 or something (not sure if that's 100% the right letters/numbers, but pretty sure a 7 is in there).
NIL is simply NOT what so many of you truly think it is. Very few players benefit from true NIL from companies that want to use them truly for NIL, or helmet signings, etc. Most of it is collectives which is just boosters, and that's mostly for transfers and keeping players. High school recruiting is still very shady. Many legit NIL donors don't want to be involved in those stupid piddly bidding wars involving the Pat Pattersons of the world. They'd rather truly help our current 'student athletes'.
Well we've essentially answered the question on Miami. Good luck, Mario.Yeah, I honestly didn't realize until I watched "The U" 30 for 30 that they were a private school yearning to be 'the Harvard of the South' and the administration was actually on the brink of killing football until Howard Schnellenberger took over. Then, even with success and National Championships and money rolling in, the administration always took the approach that football is something that they do, not something that they are. That started way back then and it still doesn't seem to have progressed.
Herbstreit noted it a couple of years ago:
Kirk Herbstreit critiques Miami administration: 'I guess football doesn't matter'
ESPN's Kirk Herbstreit was direct in his diagnosis of the long-standing problems facing the Miami Hurricanes football program.www.palmbeachpost.com
Florida is the biggest mystery. Just get the right coach who is hungry and has a true offense you can recruit to. Can come from anywhere in the country. Had every opportunity to get the right guys but continually whiffed. Lane Kiffin, hell Chip Kelly isn't too old yet either. Mike Leach would have worked, Freeze too. Mike Gundy. Best one is probably P.J. Fleck. And he'd go.
Who knows on Florida State. Norvell may be the guy. If you can win at Memphis, you can coach.
Florida State is mentioned as possibly being back, but I'm not buying Norvell just yet. Florida has a ton of talent, but the universities have missed on their coaching hires. There are no Bowden, Spurrier, or Jimmy quality head coaches being hired in Flawda. Also, Bama, Georgia, Ohio State, and Michigan are pulling in the top talent these days. Unless these schools are in play for recruiting that level of talent, they will need outstanding coaching, not just good ones.
Look at the New England Patriots. Belichik lost Brady and now he's at best an avg NFL corch. On the college level when Tebow ran out of eligibility it was discovered that Urban sucked. Fisher hasn't found another Jameis yet. Sumlin hasn't found another Manziel. Wherever you go, QB talent will make or break you. Got to get the elite studs to have a dynasty.