What happened to Florida (the State) Football?

[OG Goat Holder]

Look at the New England Patriots. Belichik lost Brady and now he's at best an avg NFL corch. On the college level when Tebow ran out of eligibility it was discovered that Urban sucked. Fisher hasn't found another Jameis yet. Sumlin hasn't found another Manziel. Wherever you go, QB talent will make or break you. Got to get the elite studs to have a dynasty.

I think we're probably talking about 2 different things. I totally agree on QBs. But we're talking how do you create a program like the following, which goes beyond quarterbacking:

- 80s/90s or 00-02 Miami;
- 90s Florida State;
- 90s Florida or 05-09 Florida;
- Saban dynasty;
- Ohio State dynasty, spanning 2012-now;
- Clemson under Dabo.
- USC under Carroll.

These are different beasts, and can't just be explained by a QB. And Saban wasn't AS good at LSU as he is with Bama. I think being a good fit is a big part of it. Not talking about these lucky runs when yes, mostly it's caused by a QB. Hell even Orgeron and Chizik accomplished that.

 

[WrightGuy821]

Wrong on all counts. 80% of high school recruiting is still done under the table. And NIL donations are not tax deductible, as the collectives are not (supposed to be) 501c3s. NCAA is cracking down on this. BI is like a 501c7 or something (not sure if that's 100% the right letters/numbers, but pretty sure a 7 is in there).

NIL is simply NOT what so many of you truly think it is. Very few players benefit from true NIL from companies that want to use them truly for NIL, or helmet signings, etc. Most of it is collectives which is just boosters, and that's mostly for transfers and keeping players. High school recruiting is still very shady. Many legit NIL donors don't want to be involved in those stupid piddly bidding wars involving the Pat Pattersons of the world. They'd rather truly help our current 'student athletes'.

Where do these stats come from? I wouldn't be surprised if you're right, just want to see some proof to back it up. It doesn't make sense to me for people to still be spending their money under the table when they could be doing it above board and getting those added benefits.

 

[ChE1997]

Well we've essentially answered the question on Miami. Good luck, Mario.

Florida is the biggest mystery. Just get the right coach who is hungry and has a true offense you can recruit to. Can come from anywhere in the country. Had every opportunity to get the right guys but continually whiffed. Lane Kiffin, hell Chip Kelly isn't too old yet either. Mike Leach would have worked, Freeze too. Mike Gundy. Best one is probably P.J. Fleck. And he'd go.

Who knows on Florida State. Norvell may be the guy. If you can win at Memphis, you can coach.

Florida has had 2 great coaches, and a bunch of nothing. Pre Spurrier, they were an average program.

 

[patdog]

On the college level when Tebow ran out of eligibility it was discovered that Urban sucked.

What? He had one down season at 8-5, then after a year off went 83-9 with a national title and 7 top-10 finishes at OSU.

 

[ChE1997]

I think we're probably talking about 2 different things. I totally agree on QBs. But we're talking how do you create a program like the following, which goes beyond quarterbacking:

- 80s/90s or 00-02 Miami;
- 90s Florida State;
- 90s Florida or 05-09 Florida;
- Saban dynasty;
- Ohio State dynasty, spanning 2012-now;
- Clemson under Dabo.
- USC under Carroll.

These are different beasts, and can't just be explained by a QB. And Saban wasn't AS good at LSU as he is with Bama. I think being a good fit is a big part of it. Not talking about these lucky runs when yes, mostly it's caused by a QB. Hell even Orgeron and Chizik accomplished that.

BoDawg is taking rare exceptional college QB's and expecting a program out of that.

Clemson under Dabo is the prime example. Dabo had Taj Boyd (throwing to a future NFL HOF Hopkins), then a run of NFL quality QB's in Watson and Lawrence. He thought he had another in DJ Uilngannanana, and he didn't.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

What? He had one down season at 8-5, then after a year off went 83-9 with a national title and 7 top-10 finishes at OSU.

He left for the Big 10 bc he knew he was done for in the SEC after the 8-5 season.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Where do these stats come from? I wouldn't be surprised if you're right, just want to see some proof to back it up. It doesn't make sense to me for people to still be spending their money under the table when they could be doing it above board and getting those added benefits.

Educated guesses based on my own experience. There will never be proof for my side or yours, so that's a futile effort to even try.

Let's put it this way. 'Normal' people would not engage in big time payment of players period. Only fanatical people with way too much money. They generally will not care about how they get it done, and would rather avoid taxes and paperwork period. Legal NIL collective donating is flowing through Jon Q. Average Fan, a few companies (like you see on BI's page), but that's small time money really. A few big time stars might get a deal with a big company (like that TX player and Ferrari or whatever). And the real stuff will demand at least SOME real work/advertisement.

And again, there really aren't any added benefits.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

What we're trying to figure out is, why? I mean you can just as easily say that Alabama/Ohio State/Georgia/Clemson won't get those recruits in the next 10 years, or they didn't back in the 90s or whenever. The riddle is how to create that program culture that attracts so many recruits, even when they have to come in, battle, and may sit the bench for 2 years. And again, don't say NIL, because the Florida schools are no stranger to money, they've all done it before. Everybody pays players or NIL, whatever you want to call it, that just gets you in the game. At the end of the day, it's still much of the same things that help you recruit high school talent. Program, coaching, culture, degrees, etc.

The Florida schools are not like Nebraska or Notre Dame, who had big advantages and now don't. To me they are like Tennessee, just a series of bad coaching hires with no real strategy for what they are trying to do. Except they have much more local talent around them.

Oh yeah the biggest factor is absolutely mismanagement.

Florida followed up Urban Meyer with Muschamp, McElwain, Mullen, and Napier. The most successful by far was Mullen and he totally tanked their recruiting. Now they are banking on a Sun Belt head coach to fix it.

Jimbo had a great run at FSU but started to fall apart at the end, and then Taggart was a disaster. Norvell is just now getting them close to relevancy again.

Miami… I mean where do you even start? Larry Coker won big with Butch Davis’s players but then he dropped off. Then they went Randy Shannon to Al Golden to a post-Georgia Mark Richt to Manny Diaz.

Moral of the story is, don’t making bad coaching hires. One you can probably overcome, multiple can destroy your program.

 

[AstroDog]

I wouldn't worry about Florida State. Norvell will have them in the top 10 real soon. He's a slow builder. If their fanbase can endure some substandard/average seasons, which they did, then they will be rewarded with a top notch team in the future. I expect them to be a regular playoff team when we go to 12 teams. And they might add to their NC trophy case at some point.

 

[Big Dawg81]

Florida picked 5th in the East. Miami and FSU have disappeared. There was a time where it seemed that state had so much talent that those schools would always be on top.

Florida State was good last year and will probably make another jump this year.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

Florida State was good last year and will probably make another jump this year.

They weren’t in the Playoff hunt last year but might be this year, people forget that they won 10 games and beat LSU in NOLA.

 

[Ranchdawg]

Florida State was good last year and will probably make another jump this year.

I hope so. Always enjoyed FSU fans visiting our boards when we beat Florida. They are my second favorite team.

 

[Drebin]

In the case of Florida, they fired a good coach after one bad season.

Florida would have been in a 12-team CFP years 1, 2, and 3 under Mullen. Year 4 was bad, so they fired him.

The first year of the 12-team playoff will be year 3 for Napier. Will they fire him if he isn't in the CFP? What about after year 4?

There were deep issues in that program under Mullen. It was more than just wins and losses. He was rubbing people the wrong way and lost the locker room.

The culture at Florida has been bad for a while. Napier is blowing it all up and he will eventually win there if they give him time, but it's Florida so that's doubtful.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The culture at Florida has been bad for a while. Napier is blowing it all up and he will eventually win there if they give him time, but it's Florida so that's doubtful.

Sounds like......Croom. Billy Bob does have some resemblances to Croominator for sure.

I've yet to see an instance of this 'blow it up' or 'foundation' or the 17 other feel good expressions for this, actually work. Culture can generally be installed over the course of the first season.

 

[dorndawg]

Look at the New England Patriots. Belichik lost Brady and now he's at best an avg NFL corch. On the college level when Tebow ran out of eligibility it was discovered that Urban sucked. Fisher hasn't found another Jameis yet. Sumlin hasn't found another Manziel. Wherever you go, QB talent will make or break you. Got to get the elite studs to have a dynasty.

Urban Meyer went 47-4 at Ohio State.

 

[Drebin]

Sounds like......Croom. Billy Bob does have some resemblances to Croominator for sure.

I've yet to see an instance of this 'blow it up' or 'foundation' or the 17 other feel good expressions for this, actually work. Culture can generally be installed over the course of the first season.

Other than the fact that 'Billy Bob' has a track record of success as a college head coach, while Croom had none, yeah, you're right. He's exactly like Croom. What was I thinking?**

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Other than the fact that 'Billy Bob' has a track record of success as a college head coach, while Croom had none, yeah, you're right. He's exactly like Croom. What was I thinking?**

Wasn't really talking about record, more about how he walks around mumbling about 'character' and such things.

But either way, that awesome track record you speak of was only 4 games better than Mark Hudspeth over his first 4 years at ULaLa. Neither are really good fits for Florida. The fallout will be extremely funny to watch, good luck Loaferz.

Maybe it was the top button buttoned that made the good impression?

 

[Drebin]

Wasn't really talking about record, more about how he walks around mumbling about 'character' and such things.

But either way, that awesome track record you speak of was only 4 games better than Mark Hudspeth over his first 4 years at ULaLa. Neither are really good fits for Florida. The fallout will be extremely funny to watch, good luck Loaferz.

Maybe it was the top button buttoned that made the good impression?

What does Mark Hudspeth have to do with this? Why are you moving the goalposts? The comparison you made was Napier to Croom. When I reminded you how stupid that is, you come back with "OH YEAH WHAT ABOUT HUDSPETH??!?!?"

Try to stay on point.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

What does Mark Hudspeth have to do with this? Why are you moving the goalposts? The comparison you made was Napier to Croom. When I reminded you how stupid that is, you come back with "OH YEAH WHAT ABOUT HUDSPETH??!?!?"

Try to stay on point.

Wasn't really talking about record, more about how he walks around mumbling about 'character' and such things.

Simmer down.

 

[Drebin]

Simmer down.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Urban Meyer went 47-4 at Ohio State.

Day is 45-6 at tOSU and he's a first time D1 head coach. When Urban was dropped into a situation (Jacksonville) where he had to coach up a team with marginal talent his true colors came out.

 

[dorndawg]

Day is 46-5 at tOSU and he's a first time D1 head coach. When Urban was dropped into a situation (Jacksonville) where he had to coach up a team with marginal talent his true colors came out.

Peep Nick Saban & Steve Spurrier's NFL records.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Peep Nick Saban & Steve Spurrier's NFL records.

They were bad but not quite that bad. And Trevor Lawrence I think will prove to be a much better QB than Shane 'INT' Matthews.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

I was never really sure about SunBelt Billy, but I sure wanted him at MSU.....I knew Brian Kelly was going to be good...dude has won big at both Cincy at Notre Dame....now put him at LSU with all that talent he never had at those other places.....I think he wins a natty at some point there...

Great. Can‘t we until will get a bunch of 28 year old Corndog virgins trolling us on a random Saturday night in July after that happens.