What has happened to homework?

[Trojanbulldog19]

Bingo

 

[harrybollocks]

Germans, in general, are good at math. Try spelling out and pronouncing their numbers. That theory seems implausible. Plus on international tests, Asian Americans are the equal of Asians, white Americans do as well as white Europeans. It's the other groups that lag behind and yes I think it's o.k. to try something to increase math scores. But, don't oversell teaching innovations or just copy what China is doing. BTW, Latinos in America score higher than Latinos anywhere else and Black Americans score higher than any people of African descent anywhere else and we all know what substandard educational systems prevailed under Jim Crow. Nigerian Americans, btw, are totally bossing education in America. Just impressive educational achievement and a group of highly successful Americans. Someone mentioned culture in this thread. That's a big part. Kids from intact, educated parents will likely do fine no matter how they're taught math. I've got some wonderful redneck relatives, some of whom have gone through considerable family instability. Not asking them for help with geometry homework.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I was always very good at math. I don't think I "memorized" 3+3 or 3+4. That was always put up three fingers then count 3 more finger going up. Multiplication tables were memorization but that was just to make it faster. I always understood it was 4 rows and 4 columns was 16 cells or count 4 fingers 4 times.

I too, many years ago at this point, had to relearn my high school math when my girls were in school and had to listen to "that's not how the teacher does it".

The issue is there is always a problem when you teach something in a fixed way in that all people learn better in different ways. So when these experts settle on a certain way to train the masses there will always be outliers who won't get it in that way. The old way had outliers and the new way has maybe different types of people being the outliers.

One part of my job is to train people on how to use my companies software. The product is to Dispatch police and fire units to incidents. I can't count the number of times I would be using the demo system to train and one of the cop cars is 1A12 (1-Adam-12). You show them how to dispatch 1A12 and put it on scene and then put it in service. Inevitably someone will then raise there hand and say, but we don't have a 1A12 unit. Those folks generally take longer to get it because they just can't think algebraically. They can't in their brain substitute their situation to what is being shown.

 

[Smoked Toag]

^ currently this has 1 upvote and 2 downvotes.



^ currently this has 2 upvotes and 1 downvote.




The post that reiterates why math has changed and compliments the OP on their involvement in education at home has 1 upvote and 2 downvotes.
The post that rambles off some sarcastic claim that we want to lower the bar to close the achievement gap has 2 upvotes and 1 downvote.



Felt that was worth pointing out for perspective. A lot in our society needs to change.

He (harrybollocks) isn't wrong. I know he was sarcastic and I know regressing to the mean wasn't the intent, but it MOST DEFINITELY WAS what happened, and is happening.

Look, a public school is necessary. But it's not some grandiose goal that produces a great innovative society. It produces sheep. There are much better ways to educate and produce intelligent, independent thinkers who are necessary to move this country into the future.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Wow Horshack and I agree on something. IMO, Reading is the most important thing for kids to do well in school. Get your younger kids to read a bunch. Topics are not all that important just quantity will be helpful.

 

[Smoked Toag]

Do you have actual data and personal interactions to back that up or are you going off of your own thoughts on that? Do you work with college students on a regular basis and working with both kids that come from home school, public, and private schools to make that observation?

Of course I do.

 

[Go Budaw]

When will a person be around this diverse group of people, later in life, all the same age, in a classroom setting or even a high school campus setting? I'm not saying whether or not it's beneficial, I'm simply questioning if school is the best way to accomplish it, and if the drawbacks are worth those benefits.

It’s not about being around them all at the same time. It’s the one-on-one and small group interactions with people outside your normal comfort zone that you have at a much higher frequency than you ever will be able to have until you either get to college or enter the work force. Those are both places that you really don’t want to still be learning basic social interaction and other soft skills.

This is really not the main reasoning for homeschooling (or private schooling) in the modern era. And it's hardly confined to the homeschool and private school community.

I never said it was the main reasoning. I’d venture a guess that better than 50% of home school parents do a great job of exposing their kids to other forms of socialization. But it does still happen, and it happens at a much greater frequency with home school than private school, and a much greater frequency for both than it does for public school.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Do you have actual data and personal interactions to back that up or are you going off of your own thoughts on that? Do you work with college students on a regular basis and working with both kids that come from home school, public, and private schools to make that observation?

My wife works with high school and middle school aged children and has done so for the last two decades. She (and I) would tell you that your ideas about homeschooled children are neanderthal-esque and that's putting it mildly. Yes there are weird kids from the homeschooled contingent. There were weird kids at my public high school. There are weird kids at my children's private school. In our experience some of the brightest most accomplished students we've ever interacted with were homeschooled. These are kids who went on to work at NASA, work on blockbuster Hollywood films, make arguments before the supreme court, and more. You don't do those things if you can't work with people.

Have you ever considered that maybe some kids are socially awkward and/or on the spectrum and their parents feel like homeschooling is their only chance to do well in school? "Homeschool" as a cohort doesn't get to kick people out if they don't do it correctly.

It's kind of like Greek GPA vs. Independent GPA. Of course the Greek GPA is higher. They kick you out if you don't make grades.

 

[VegasDawg13]

It's not that they think it means it 100% of the cases, it's that they think it's some big causative factor, when if anything it's such a small factor you can't distinguish it from noise.

And as evidence of this, you provided the smallest possible sample size of anecdotal data that actually supports (not proves, to be clear) the other side of the argument.

FTR, I'm not even on a side in this. I don't have a clue. I know one home-schooled girl through my daughters' dance company, and she is a delight. I'm not drawing any conclusions from that, though, and I'm certainly not drawing the opposite conclusion of what that one piece of data indicates

 

[HotMop]

I actually agree with this, for this point in time. It's like a 'good' public school.....if you have good students, the school will be good. Nothing the 'school' itself does to be 'good'. If you bring in bad students to a good school, that school will eventually become bad.

Same with homeschoolers and private schoolers. For the longest time, only weird kids homeschooled (for the reasons you mentioned). That has absolutely changed. Now many good students are homeschooling. I think you will see a whole new wave of homeschooled kids and those stereotypes will go away.

But....old stereotypes take a while to die out. I mean, people still think the public school is the best way to educate kids, and that's been debunked a while back. It's just what people know and are used to.

Please tell me you don't homeschool your kids.

 

[johnson86-1]

It’s not about being around them all at the same time. It’s the one-on-one and small group interactions with people outside your normal comfort zone that you have at a much higher frequency than you ever will be able to have until you either get to college or enter the work force. Those are both places that you really don’t want to still be learning basic social interaction and other soft skills.



I never said it was the main reasoning. I’d venture a guess that better than 50% of home school parents do a great job of exposing their kids to other forms of socialization. But it does still happen, and it happens at a much greater frequency with home school than private school, and a much greater frequency for both than it does for public school.

I think this maybe pins down the disconnect. I guess every time you meet somebody, if you can't fit them in some approximation of a cookie cutter outline of somebody you've met before, it makes you anxious? I don't know how common that is or that many people have a "comfort zone" such that they have trouble interacting with people at least on a professional level if they are not similar to people they've worked with in the past. I'm not a people person by any means, but I don't know that I've ever felt anxious about dealing with somebody because they were the first whatever you can think of I've had to deal with. And I don't feel like most people fail to learn basic social interaction and other soft skills just because the people they interact with are similar to them? I think you learn basic social interaction and soft skills dealing with people that are similar to you, and that at least in most professional settings in the US, that will get you a long even with people from many different backgrounds and experiences? Maybe you learn some social group specific norms or quirks that you have to learn aren't universally applicable, but I don't know how prevalent and hard to identify those would be.

 

[dog12]

Helping my six year old, first grade, with his homework. This math lesson tells me that 3 + 3 is considered a “double plus,” because there are two 3’s. Then it tells me to explain how 3 + 4 is a “double plus 1,” because you added one to the second 3. It then asks to have your kid look throughout the house for both “double plus” objects, such as things with 2-3-4 of the same stuff in it- IE two rolling die or a bike because two tires- and have them call out “double plus!”

How in the hell do you explain that to a six year old?

I would make sure NOT to explain that to a 6-year old. That sounds like some 17'ing BS a career "academic" dreamt up.

Instead, I would just make sure he fully understands the concept of adding two numbers together. For small numbers (e.g., 3+3 or 3+4), you can literally use your hands to demonstrate the concept.

As he understands the concept and gains some experience through practice, he can start using bigger and bigger numbers.

 

[tribaldawg]

My wife works with high school and middle school aged children and has done so for the last two decades. She (and I) would tell you that your ideas about homeschooled children are neanderthal-esque and that's putting it mildly. Yes there are weird kids from the homeschooled contingent. There were weird kids at my public high school. There are weird kids at my children's private school. In our experience some of the brightest most accomplished students we've ever interacted with were homeschooled. These are kids who went on to work at NASA, work on blockbuster Hollywood films, make arguments before the supreme court, and more. You don't do those things if you can't work with people.

Have you ever considered that maybe some kids are socially awkward and/or on the spectrum and their parents feel like homeschooling is their only chance to do well in school? "Homeschool" as a cohort doesn't get to kick people out if they don't do it correctly.

It's kind of like Greek GPA vs. Independent GPA. Of course the Greek GPA is higher. They kick you out if you don't make grades.

I completely agree. I have worked with a lot of homeschool kids and have worked with quite a few Starkville High kids. On average, the Starkville High kids have more trouble functioning in a group setting outside of their friend group. I will also add that many of the Starkville High kids have been much more odd versus the homeschool kids.

 

[Go Budaw]

I think this maybe pins down the disconnect. I guess every time you meet somebody, if you can't fit them in some approximation of a cookie cutter outline of somebody you've met before, it makes you anxious? I don't know how common that is or that many people have a "comfort zone" such that they have trouble interacting with people at least on a professional level if they are not similar to people they've worked with in the past. I'm not a people person by any means, but I don't know that I've ever felt anxious about dealing with somebody because they were the first whatever you can think of I've had to deal with. And I don't feel like most people fail to learn basic social interaction and other soft skills just because the people they interact with are similar to them? I think you learn basic social interaction and soft skills dealing with people that are similar to you, and that at least in most professional settings in the US, that will get you a long even with people from many different backgrounds and experiences? Maybe you learn some social group specific norms or quirks that you have to learn aren't universally applicable, but I don't know how prevalent and hard to identify those would be.

The point is that people, when given the opportunity, will naturally self-sort into groups of similar individuals in terms of background. Its been proven time and again. Rich kids hang with other rich kids. Same with poor kids. Same with athletes, black kids, white kids, theater kids, goth kids, punk kids, gay kids, straight kids, church kids, and what have you.

A certain degree of that is healthy, but past a certain point it becomes a crutch that inhibits more refined social development. Public school doesn’t completely eliminate that, but you are forced by class assignments, group projects, and clubs / activities to learn how to interact with others outside of your self-chosen group. Kids in all those groups above have value and have something to offer, so learning to navigate conversations and projects and just generally being able to shoot the **** with all those types of people is a valuable life skill. Like I said, public school isn’t the only way to achieve this at an early age. But its probably the most efficient and most seamless for most people.

 

[Dawg_4_lifes]

What happened to just locking the kids in their room to do homework by themselves and beating them until they had the right answers?

 

[johnson86-1]

And as evidence of this, you provided the smallest possible sample size of anecdotal data that actually supports (not proves, to be clear) the other side of the argument.

FTR, I'm not even on a side in this. I don't have a clue. I know one home-schooled girl through my daughters' dance company, and she is a delight. I'm not drawing any conclusions from that, though, and I'm certainly not drawing the opposite conclusion of what that one piece of data indicates

Holy shite, Batman. I didn't provide anecdotal data that supports the other side of the argument any more than me pointing out that one person I know of off hand that homeschooled is left handed supports the argument that home schooled people are more likely to be left handed. I just pointed out a logical fallacy. And it's wild because if I had just read the bolded part of the text, I would have bet there was a 99.99999% you would get the point.

 

[We Men]

My question to all of you with kids, and this is very important. Do they know how to count money?!! Do they know how much change they should be getting back when they pay for for that burger and fries with a $10 dollar bill. This is basic, and I really don't think they are being taught that in school now days. It's up to you parents. If you don't teach them, who will?

 

[Smoked Toag]

If you don't teach them, who will?

ThE pUbLiC sChOoLs !!!!111

 

[8dog]

This is about like wondering if they know how to use a pay phone

 

[harrybollocks]

More than half of American adults read below the 6th grade level.
https://www.apmresearchlab.org/10x-adult-literacy