What were the three best seasons by a starting pitcher since the '60s in your opinion?

[saturdaysarebetter]

What were the three best seasons in your opinion by a starting pitcher since the '60s?

Some Cy Young Award winning seasons to consider:

Sandy Koufax, 1963: 25-5, 1.88 ERA, 11 shutouts, 306 Ks, 0.875 WHIP
Sandy Koufax, 1965: 26-8, 2.04 ERA, 27 complete games, eight shutouts, 382 Ks, 0.855 WHIP
Sandy Koufax, 1966: 27-9, 1.73 ERA, 317 Ks, 27 complete games, 0.985 WHIP
Bob Gibson, 1968: 22-9, 1.12 ERA, 28 complete games, 268 Ks, 0.853 WHIP
Denny McClain, 1968: 31-6, 1.96 ERA, 28 complete games, six shutouts, 280 Ks, 0.905 WHIP.
Vida Blue, 1971: 24-8, 1.82 ERA, 24 complete games, eight shutouts, 0.952 WHIP
Steve Carlton, 1972: 27-10, 1.97 ERA, 30 complete games, eight shutouts, 310 Ks, 0.993 WHIP
Ron Guidry, 1978: 25-3, 1.74 ERA, 16 complete games, nine shutouts, 0.948 WHIP
Greg Maddux, 1995: 19-2, 1.63 ERA, 0.811 WHIP
Pedro Martinez, 1999: 23-4, 2.07 ERA, 313 Ks, 0.923 WHIP
Pedro Martinez, 2000: 18-6, 1.74 ERA, 284 Ks, 0.737 WHIP
Randy Johnson, 2001: 21-6, 2.49 ERA, 372 Ks, 1.009 WHIP
Jake Arrieta, 2015: 22-6, 1.77 ERA, 0.865 WHIP
Justin Verlander, 2019: 21-6, 2.58 ERA, 300 Ks, 0.803 WHIP

 

[LB99]

Gibson’s ‘68 season numbers are insane.

 

[nittanymoops]

Only two of those sensational seasons ended before the playoffs. Only one was on a terrible team. Plus, I have a very soft spot for Lefty. To do what he did on that team? Mind boggling.

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

Only two of those sensational seasons ended before the playoffs. Only one was on a terrible team. Plus, I have a very soft spot for Lefty. To do what he did on that team? Mind boggling.

Would he have won 30 games that year as a Pirate or Cincinnati Red?

 

[LB99]

Only two of those sensational seasons ended before the playoffs. Only one was on a terrible team. Plus, I have a very soft spot for Lefty. To do what he did on that team? Mind boggling.

310k in one season is ridiculous.

 

[MrTailgate]

Pick any of the Koufax years, Gibson, and maybe Gooden’s 24-4, 1.53 ERA. There have been so many good ones but I thought Dr K was on his way to immortality those first 2 seasons. Carlton was so great for a terrible Phillies team but for sheer dominance, I’d have to say Koufax and Gibson were the best I ever saw. They are 1-2, picking the third pitcher best year is a toss up. OP has listed some great seasons, hard to pick. I’d probably say Lefty since I saw so many of them but Gooden was ridiculous.

I had to edit. Not a starter but Eck had those two years out of the pen where he was unhittable. He came to mind after I replied. He had 2 years where he basically didn’t walk anyone and had WHIP’s of like .60. Not a starter obviously, but he was as dominant as anyone who ever played over those 2 years at the top of his game.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Pick any of the Koufax years, Gibson, and maybe Gooden’s 24-4, 1.53 ERA. There have been so many good ones but I thought Dr K was on his way to immortality those first 2 seasons. Carlton was so great for a terrible Phillies team but for sheer dominance, I’d have to say Koufax and Gibson were the best I ever saw. They are 1-2, picking the third pitcher best year is a toss up. OP has listed some great seasons, hard to pick. I’d probably say Lefty since I saw so many of them but Gooden was ridiculous.

I had to edit. Not a starter but Eck had those two years out of the pen where he was unhittable. He came to mind after I replied. He had 2 years where he basically didn’t walk anyone and had WHIP’s of like .60. Not a starter obviously, but he was as dominant as anyone who ever played over those 2 years at the top of his game.

THIS ^^^^.

 

[BrucePa]

Guidry in 1978. He won 16 games after a Yankees loss, making sure they didn't have long losing streaks and defined the term "stopper." The Yankees came from 14.5 games behind the Red Sox at the All Star Break to win the pennant and the World Series. Guidry was lights out that year.

 

[Shep]

Jacob deGrom's "half season" in 2021 was the definition of greatness: ERA of 1.08, 146 K's in 92 innings, whip of .554. In one start he averaged over 98mph across all pitches. Unsustainable, and yes only a half season. But, greatness. Would likely have been an all timer if not hurt.

Also, almost 50% of his career starts have been 1 run or less, and his day game ERA (sub-2.00) is the best all time...the next best is 2.22

If he was on any other team but my beloved Mets, his win-loss record would be insanely good for his career...



BTW, deGrom

 

[razpsu]

I’ll take “Louisiana lightning” for a World Series please!!
What a year Guidry had truly amazing.
First loss of season was in July.
18 strikeouts against the angels.
Beat Red Sox in one game playoff at Fenway. Bucky freakin dent!!
Won all games in playoffs.

what a year!!

 

[Keyser Soze 16802]

The Phillies went 59-97 and Carlton was 27-10. Incredible

 

[MrTailgate]

Jacob deGrom's "half season" in 2021 was the definition of greatness: ERA of 1.08, 146 K's in 92 innings, whip of .554. In one start he averaged over 98mph across all pitches. Unsustainable, and yes only a half season. But, greatness. Would likely have been an all timer if not hurt.

Also, almost 50% of his career starts have been 1 run or less, and his day game ERA (sub-2.00) is the best all time...the next best is 2.22

If he was on any other team but my beloved Mets, his win-loss record would be insanely good for his career...



BTW, deGrom

Indeed, very worthy but trust you were not around for 68 Gibson. 34 starts, 28 complete games, 13 shutouts. In a stretch of June and July that year, he had a .50 ERA (not WHIP) over that span of over 100 innings. Complete game every game and I don’t think he was beaten. K’s were a different animal since the game was different and players first order of import was to make contact. I was lucky enough to see him that year in one of the two starts he made at Connie Mack.

I remember seeing Pedro one game at Jack Russell in Clearwater at the top of his game as a Red Sox. I sat next to a scout who was charting him that day and I noticed he was making some notations that I didn’t recognize. The notations were that they were the best individual pitch he had seen thrown that spring. This is high velocity Pedro. The scout told me that Pedro threw the best fastball, curve, straight change, and circle change amongst all pitchers who had those pitches in their arsenal. 97 doesn’t mean anything but back then it did. His fastball was straight 97 every time he threw it and it was always on the paint; the other pitches were straight filth. I can remember Glanville just laughing and Rolen just shaking his head walking back to the dugout. I remember saying that I hadn’t seen that level of dominance for one day since Koufax and Gibson.

If you have ever seen Pedro’s hands, you’re immediately struck by how long his fingers are. I believe Gibson was the same. The ball literally disappeared into their hands.

 

[Missileer]

A couple of points to ponder: ‘68 Gibson pitched to a 1.12 ERA and .085 WHIP for a World Series team. How in the world did he LOSE 9 games? Also, when Pedro posted that 1.74 ERA in 2000, the league ERA was over 4. FWIW, Gooden ‘85 was the best single season performance I’ve seen in my lifetime.

 

[Lanz]

What were the three best seasons in your opinion by a starting pitcher since the '60s?

Some Cy Young Award winning seasons to consider:

Sandy Koufax, 1963: 25-5, 1.88 ERA, 11 shutouts, 306 Ks, 0.875 WHIP
Sandy Koufax, 1965: 26-8, 2.04 ERA, 27 complete games, eight shutouts, 382 Ks, 0.855 WHIP
Sandy Koufax, 1966: 27-9, 1.73 ERA, 317 Ks, 27 complete games, 0.985 WHIP
Bob Gibson, 1968: 22-9, 1.12 ERA, 28 complete games, 268 Ks, 0.853 WHIP
Denny McClain, 1968: 31-6, 1.96 ERA, 28 complete games, six shutouts, 280 Ks, 0.905 WHIP.
Vida Blue, 1971: 24-8, 1.82 ERA, 24 complete games, eight shutouts, 0.952 WHIP
Steve Carlton, 1972: 27-10, 1.97 ERA, 30 complete games, eight shutouts, 310 Ks, 0.993 WHIP
Ron Guidry, 1978: 25-3, 1.74 ERA, 16 complete games, nine shutouts, 0.948 WHIP
Greg Maddux, 1995: 19-2, 1.63 ERA, 0.811 WHIP
Pedro Martinez, 1999: 23-4, 2.07 ERA, 313 Ks, 0.923 WHIP
Pedro Martinez, 2000: 18-6, 1.74 ERA, 284 Ks, 0.737 WHIP
Randy Johnson, 2001: 21-6, 2.49 ERA, 372 Ks, 1.009 WHIP
Jake Arrieta, 2015: 22-6, 1.77 ERA, 0.865 WHIP
Justin Verlander, 2019: 21-6, 2.58 ERA, 300 Ks, 0.803 WHIP

Relative to league average... Pedro's 1999 and Maddux's 1995.
But you've selected a great list - all worthy.

 

[LionJim]

Steve Carlton's 1972 season was one of the best since the Deadball Era - Cooperstown Expert

Steve Carlton earned the NL's pitching Triple Crown in 1972. He won 27 games and posted a 1.97 ERA with 310 strikeouts.

www.cooperstownexpert.com

 

[psbc19]

Pedro doing what he did in the height of the steroid era, and during a time when hitters were patient and on-base percentage mattered was unreal. An ERA under 2 at that time is far and away the best pitching performance by a starter in my opinion.

 

[dcf4psu]

What year did they lower the pitching mound?

 

[Woodpecker]

Steve Carlton's 1972 season was one of the best since the Deadball Era - Cooperstown Expert

Steve Carlton earned the NL's pitching Triple Crown in 1972. He won 27 games and posted a 1.97 ERA with 310 strikeouts.

www.cooperstownexpert.com

Here is one of his losses: he and Niekro threw 11 inning complete games against each other with Lefty losing 2-1. Don't think you'll see games like that ever again.

 

[BrucePa]

The Phillies went 59-97 and Carlton was 27-10.

None of his wins mattered. Nobody cared about the Phillies that year. His performance was overall meaningless. He didn't pitch a single important game.Not a single start of his was critical to the Phillies' season.

Compare that to Guidry in '78, when every start was life-or-death for the season.

 

[PSUAVLNC]

Have to go with Super Steve Carlton 30 complete games with a 1.97 era

 

[PSU Mike]

None of his wins mattered. Nobody cared about the Phillies that year. His performance was overall meaningless. He didn't pitch a single important game.Not a single start of his was critical to the Phillies' season.

Compare that to Guidry in '78, when every start was life-or-death for the season.

So what you’re saying is if Guidry had pitched that season against little league players and struck every single one out he would been a bad pitcher.

 

[FrontierLion]

"and his day game ERA (sub-2.00) is the best all time...the next best is 2.22"

This is interesting, Shep. I'm wondering what attributes - delivery, etc - lend themselves to being more productive during the day as opposed to night. Or is that a result of a pitcher's better stamina over hot summer days compared to others?

 

[Ceasar]

What year did they lower the pitching mound?

I believe it was 1969. I know it is always discussed in the context of trying to adjust for Bob Gibson's dominance. Imagine that, they change the rule book because one guy is too good. Maybe that answers the question from the OP.

 

[BrucePa]

So what you’re saying is if Guidry had pitched that season against little league players and struck every single one out he would been a bad pitcher.

No, I'm saying Guidry stepped up in high-pressure, critical situations in every start, and we have no idea if Carlton would have done that in his best season with the Phillies.

 

[Shep]

This is interesting, Shep. I'm wondering what attributes - delivery, etc - lend themselves to being more productive during the day as opposed to night. Or is that a result of a pitcher's better stamina over hot summer days compared to others?

Good question, but I have no idea. He throws hard and one would think a fastball pitcher is more open to getting hit in the daytime. His slider is also 90+ so that may explain part of it away. But its a mystery.

 

[Woodpecker]

No, I'm saying Guidry stepped up in high-pressure, critical situations in every start, and we have no idea if Carlton would have done that in his best season with the Phillies.

With a team scoring 230 more runs behind him

 

[MrTailgate]

This is interesting, Shep. I'm wondering what attributes - delivery, etc - lend themselves to being more productive during the day as opposed to night. Or is that a result of a pitcher's better stamina over hot summer days compared to other

Good question, but I have no idea. He throws hard and one would think a fastball pitcher is more open to getting hit in the daytime. His slider is also 90+ so that may explain part of it away. But its a mystery.

A couple of factors. If you are a day time starter, you have rested versus the grind hitters have Day game after night game. Depending on where you are and the time, it can be brutal picking up the baseball. Back in the day when people wore white shirts to the game and there was not a pronounced batting eye, good luck. Also, the shadows that might come across the field make it really difficult. Some of it is probably just random, but those are a couple of factors.

 

[MrTailgate]

I believe it was 1969. I know it is always discussed in the context of trying to adjust for Bob Gibson's dominance. Imagine that, they change the rule book because one guy is too good. Maybe that answers the question from the OP.

1968 was the year of the pitcher. There are books about that season. It just wasn’t Gibson. McLain won 31, Drysdale set the consecutive scoreless inning, and one completely overlooked season in 68 was the year Luis Tiant had for the Indians. He was gas. The game was being dominated by pitching so they wanted to give more advantage to the hitter. Back then, you almost expected low scoring pitching games and you were fine with it. Today, everyone gets bored unless there are runs scored every inning. Hit and run, bunting, stealing all made the game interesting. Far cry from today.

 

[WSTLion87]

Steve Carlton in '72
Ron Guidry in '78
Doc Gooden in '85

 

[FrontierLion]

@MrTailgate Agree ... but all pitchers - in theory - should face the same daytime factors over the course of a career. You would think the "best" pitchers overall would also show the "best" stats for daytime games... though deGrom when healthy is as good as they come.

 

[MrTailgate]

@MrTailgate Agree ... but all pitchers - in theory - should face the same daytime factors over the course of a career. You would think the "best" pitchers overall would also show the "best" stats for daytime games... though deGrom when healthy is as good as they come.

You’re obviously correct in that. These guys are creatures of routine so some simply prepare better and feel more comfortable. It could be that some guys simply prepared better for day starts (sleep, etc). Who knows. For some, it could simply be the luck of the draw for the teams they faced when their turn came up to pitch during the day (given the small number of Day games relative to night games). If they managed to draw more Sunday games, those games following a night game often saw bench players get their AB’s on Sunday.

That is the crazy thing, some baseball outcomes simply don’t make sense. Bill Virdon hit over .400 for his career against Koufax. Can’t be explained. Virdon was a good player, not .400 good against Koufax.

 

[PSU Mike]

Argue all you want about the other two, but anybody leaving Gibson’s gem off their list can show themself to the door on this one.