Who will be the next good MSU player that posters on here just 17ing destroy?

[OG Goat Holder]

You are selling Fitz short. Granted I'm not sure who would have given him a chance at QB is Dan hadn't found him, but I think pretty much any coach could have used Fitz in their offense except for Leach. He wasn't a good passer, but it's not like he was awful. He was plenty good his JR. year that he would have been able to keep teams honest with better WRs.

IT's not a knock on Will to say he's not in Fitz's league. Will was really good at some things and that made him good for Leach's system. I think if he had gotten to play for Leach after the system was really clicking he would have looked a lot better. Not having a Polk type WR (not even NFL, just really good college WR) his last year with Leach hurt him.

Moorhead didn't use Fitz well. Matter of fact, he totally wasted him.

Fitz was a Mullen-system QB if there ever was one. I don't think many coaches could have made him what he was besides Mullen. Same with Leach and Rogers.

I loved Fitz, one of my favorite players. But I know his limitations, and in many offenses he might be a WR. And blame Moorhead much more than anyone else, especially while our mouth-breathers were blaming Fitz all year in 2018 and wanting KEYTAON 17ING THOMPSON to start. It's a tradition like no other at MSU, to anoint the backup QB as the savior. MiKe WrIgHt

 

[johnson86-1]

Moorhead didn't use Fitz well. Matter of fact, he totally wasted him.

The fact that Fitz was able to make **** flavored chicken salad out of that **** offense sort of proves my point. Even with ****** coaching, he kept us scoring except against really good defenses.

Fitz was a Mullen-system QB if there ever was one. I don't think many coaches could have made him what he was besides Mullen.

I think there's definitely a chance Fitz doesn't get developed without Mullen, but by the time Mullen left, Fitz was good.

Same with Leach and Rogers.

The difference being at the end, Rogers is still probably limited to an air raid system. They both got a raw deal on coaching their last year at state and Fitz did better with it. Maybe we'll find out next year that Will is capable of running a system that's not pure air raid if he gets a competent OC.

ETA: Fitz still completed 50% of his passes and had a 14-9 TD-Int ratio. Granted that's not good in today's college football, but he was doing that in a ****** offense with mediocre WRs while also running for 1,000 yds. Most decent coaches are going to be able to do something with that.

I loved Fitz, one of my favorite players. But I know his limitations, and in many offenses he might be a WR. And blame Moorhead much more than anyone else, especially while our mouth-breathers were blaming Fitz all year in 2018 and wanting KEYTAON 17ING THOMPSON to start. It's a tradition like no other at MSU, to anoint the backup QB as the savior. MiKe WrIgHt

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The fact that Fitz was able to make **** flavored chicken salad out of that **** offense sort of proves my point. Even with ****** coaching, he kept us scoring except against really good defenses.

That was a 10 or 11 win roster. Our offense was pitiful that year.

The difference being at the end, Rogers is still probably limited to an air raid system. They both got a raw deal on coaching their last year at state and Fitz did better with it. Maybe we'll find out next year that Will is capable of running a system that's not pure air raid if he gets a competent OC.

We already found out that he can't, we don't need Washington to show us that.

I don't agree that Fitz was better though, just simply because it's easier to get to 'average' when you are a runner rather than a passer. But it's easier to get to 'elite' if you are a better passer.

 

[thatsbaseball]

"Tolu and Will for coming to State and playing their hearts out."

 

[retire the banner]

First it was Will Rogers, now it’s Tolu Smith. Who’s next?

Both players are overrated as ****

 

[johnson86-1]

That was a 10 or 11 win roster. Our offense was pitiful that year.

Our offense was ****** but to the extent it worked, it was because of Fitz. Basically UK, FLorida, LSU, and Auburn shut them down. Iowa basically did but the O still did enough to win if we just catch the balls that hit us in the hands.

We already found out that he can't, we don't need Washington to show us that.

Well, a lot of people would have claimed that Fitz couldn't do anything based on how bad Moorhead's offense was. I don't think Will is a P5 QB if he's not playing for Leach, but maybe we'll find out Barbay's offense really was the problem as much or more than Will's limitations.

I don't agree that Fitz was better though, just simply because it's easier to get to 'average' when you are a runner rather than a passer. But it's easier to get to 'elite' if you are a better passer.

I don't know how it's relevant that it's easier to get to elite if you are a better passer if the QB you are talking about is not actually elite. It's comparing two very different types of players but you just can't tell me that most coaches couldn't use Jr. or Senior year Fitzgerald.

Just looking at some more stats, Fitzgerald completed 55% of his passes his Jr. year with a So. Keith Mixon being his best WR and 5'10" Donald Gray being his "deep threat". He just wasn't given tools to work with.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Well, a lot of people would have claimed that Fitz couldn't do anything based on how bad Moorhead's offense was. I don't think Will is a P5 QB if he's not playing for Leach, but maybe we'll find out Barbay's offense really was the problem as much or more than Will's limitations.

I would argue that maybe Fitz was not a P5 QB. P5 athlete? Yes, but not QB. And you might ask, how can you say that when he is the SEC's leading rusher as a QB? That's a good question. Do you know who is the SEC's #2 leading passer? Yep, ole Noodle Arm himself. So these stats and records don't necessarily add up to being in general a great P5 QB. But they were certainly P5 with Mullen and Leach coaching them. And remember, both of these guys went 8-4 in essentially their 3rd year on campus and actually contributing, the year before the coaching changes. So, they are more similar than we think.

I don't know how it's relevant that it's easier to get to elite if you are a better passer if the QB you are talking about is not actually elite. It's comparing two very different types of players but you just can't tell me that most coaches couldn't use Jr. or Senior year Fitzgerald.

It's relevant because it's easier to use a good running QB to become average. That's why Fitz will be preferred. Rogers isn't elite, so yeah, the part about going from good to great/elite doesn't matter in this context. I was just making the analogy.

To get deeper, I think that's why it was going to be so hard for Mullen to get past the 10 win threshold. He had to have a whole team of studs to make it possible (like 2018). I do think Leach's program may have had a little higher ceiling, as the QB recruiting continued to get better than Rogers 3-4-5 years from then. Passing just opens up more doors for you to beat the elite defenses.

It's a shame we will never get the answer to this.

 

[mstateglfr]

It is sad. I remember the days when we used to pick out opponent players to make disparaging comments. I guess with Americans hating our own country it is just a natural progression to look at your favorite team and figure out where to focus your hatred.

You start with a good point and then follow it up with a misdirected guess that forces politics into the discussion.
Boo! Lame!!

 

[BulldogBlitz]

I used to not bash players but now that they are being paid, I view it differently. If they need bashing for lazy play and they are being paid to play I will call them out on it. I don't care how freaking good or popular they are.

I definitely bashed smoke when he played for us, mainly because he had tolu free throw numbers....but...he stepped up to the line at the end of a game and sank 2. I stopped after that. Heh.

 

[johnson86-1]

I would argue that maybe Fitz was not a P5 QB. P5 athlete? Yes, but not QB.

I would feel safe betting that if you had offered half of P5 coaches the opportunity to trade Fitzgerald for their starting QB after his last year at MSU, more than half would have taken you up on the offer. Would half of P5 teams trade Will right now for their starter?

And you might ask, how can you say that when he is the SEC's leading rusher as a QB? That's a good question. Do you know who is the SEC's #2 leading passer? Yep, ole Noodle Arm himself. So these stats and records don't necessarily add up to being in general a great P5 QB.

I'm not sure all the passing yards that are basically extended handoffs has an equivalent for run-first QBs. Certainly being a running QB gives you an extra blocker compared to a RB in a traditional offense, but I think that's relevant when comparing QBs as runners to RBs. It's not like you are taking yards actually gained by somebody else holding the ball and crediting it to the running QB like you are with RBs getting YAC in the air raid.

But they were certainly P5 with Mullen and Leach coaching them. And remember, both of these guys went 8-4 in essentially their 3rd year on campus and actually contributing, the year before the coaching changes. So, they are more similar than we think.


It's relevant because it's easier to use a good running QB to become average. That's why Fitz will be preferred. Rogers isn't elite, so yeah, the part about going from good to great/elite doesn't matter in this context. I was just making the analogy.

To get deeper, I think that's why it was going to be so hard for Mullen to get past the 10 win threshold. He had to have a whole team of studs to make it possible (like 2018). I do think Leach's program may have had a little higher ceiling, as the QB recruiting continued to get better than Rogers 3-4-5 years from then. Passing just opens up more doors for you to beat the elite defenses.

It's a shame we will never get the answer to this.

I think I agree with you about it being easier to get to elite on offense while passing. It's basically why Freeze was able to beat Bama when Mullen couldn't. He recruited WRs that gave them a chance to essentially have to win a one on one battle to score. We always had to repeatedly win 11 on 11 to move down the field and we usually eventually lost battles enough to stall out.

But again, just don't think it has anything to do with Fitz being better than Rogers. Fits would be preferred because he is good enough to be serviceable or better in pretty much any offense other than the pure air raid. And he would be serviceable or better because he was an ok passer and an elite athlete. Rogers was a very accurate passer with time and a good decision maker with time, but is limited physically in a way that will make running any offense other than the air raid a challenge at the P5 level. Hell, even running the air raid was a challenge at times, although I think that had as much or more to do with the talent around him than his arm talent.

ETA: Ultimately, no way to prove it either way, but just know that I am right and you are wrong.*

 

[BulldogBlitz]

Moorhead didn't use Fitz well. Matter of fact, he totally wasted him.

Fitz was a Mullen-system QB if there ever was one. I don't think many coaches could have made him what he was besides Mullen. Same with Leach and Rogers.

I loved Fitz, one of my favorite players. But I know his limitations, and in many offenses he might be a WR. And blame Moorhead much more than anyone else, especially while our mouth-breathers were blaming Fitz all year in 2018 and wanting KEYTAON 17ING THOMPSON to start. It's a tradition like no other at MSU, to anoint the backup QB as the savior. MiKe WrIgHt

Part of that problem....dak was the backup at one point.

Wyatt was a backup.

It's easy to point to the bench and say we have the winner sitting on the bench (because we have before)

 

[msudawg1200]

The last year and a half have been especially hard for fans of Mississippi State men's sports. You have to go back to the 1980s when everything went to sh*t at the same time. And not the good 1980s when baseball was good. The years like, 1982, 1987 and 1988 (we did make a regional in 1988, but had to win on the last day of the season to get the 6th and last spot in the SEC tournament before winning it).

1986 was the last year at least one of the Big 3 didn't qualify for the postseason. We are razor close to that again. With Ole Miss you have to go all the way back to 2017 for that to have happened.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

1986 was the last year at least one of the Big 3 didn't qualify for the postseason.

Rockey got the football team turned in the right direction for the Kang to bring it up.

 

[thatsbaseball]

" It's a tradition like no other at MSU, to anoint the backup QB as the savior. MiKe WrIgHt"

I remember thousands of State fans wanting to give Wright a try because they saw Rogers wasn't playing well in the new offense but I don't recall anyone anointing him a savior. I also recall the ones who simply wanted to give the second QB a chance being branded by his worshipers as Judases for believing ANYONE could possibly do a better job than Saint Will. After Wright played I don't recall anyone denying he sucked more than Rogers.

 

[MSUDOG24]

1986 was the last year at least one of the Big 3 didn't qualify for the postseason. We are razor close to that again. With Ole Miss you have to go all the way back to 2017 for that to have happened.

Wow, now there is a fun fact.

 

[MSUDOG24]

" It's a tradition like no other at MSU, to anoint the backup QB as the savior. MiKe WrIgHt"

I remember thousands of State fans wanting to give Wright a try because they saw Rogers wasn't playing well in the new offense but I don't recall anyone anointing him a savior. I also recall the ones who simply wanted to give the second QB a chance being branded by his worshipers as Judases for believing ANYONE could possibly do a better job than Saint Will. After Wright played I don't recall anyone denying he sucked more than Rogers.

How I remember it as well. Let's see what we've got with Wright matched up with Barbay. About 3 plays in the question was answered.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Problem is we have too many athletes that end up being the same player they were freshmen year or sophomore year and never get better that look like they should or the regress. That's why so many get ridiculed. Will was better his sophomore year than he was his last two seasons. He was the same scrawny guy his last season he was his first season.
With tolu, he's regressed this season rather than taking the next step to be great

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Moorhead didn't use Fitz well. Matter of fact, he totally wasted him.

Fitz was a Mullen-system QB if there ever was one. I don't think many coaches could have made him what he was besides Mullen. Same with Leach and Rogers.

I loved Fitz, one of my favorite players. But I know his limitations, and in many offenses he might be a WR. And blame Moorhead much more than anyone else, especially while our mouth-breathers were blaming Fitz all year in 2018 and wanting KEYTAON 17ING THOMPSON to start. It's a tradition like no other at MSU, to anoint the backup QB as the savior. MiKe WrIgHt

That's because regardless of what people think, Mullen is one or was one of the best college qb coaches in the game. Dude knew how to develop qbs and different types for different schemes. Look at Dak, trask, fitz, Relf, leak, Tebow, and several others. Leach was good at getting qbs to learn his system. I wouldn't say that he was good at developing full qbs from year 1-4 or 5 as an athlete and nfl ready. Moorhead couldn't develop squat and neither could our staff last year. Lebby has developed some good qb talent.

 

[NTDawg]

First it was Will Rogers, now it’s Tolu Smith. Who’s next?

All of them

 

[Dawg84]

First it was Will Rogers, now it’s Tolu Smith. Who’s next?

We have the most intelligent fans in sports! ***

 

[mstateglfr]

With tolu, he's regressed this season rather than taking the next step to be great

He is a 5th year player- it is a rare day when a 5th year player is able to take the next step to be great because if they havent been able to do it in 4 years, they arent likely to do it in the 5th year. Further, most that could/would be able to take the next step to be great are drafted before then.

Anyways, how did Tolu regress? Actual stats dont show he regressed, pre and end of season awards dont show he regressed, yet its popular to declare he regressed.
- FG% is high this year and relative to peers.
- FT% is as inconsistent as its been in prior seasons.
- Rebounding is high this year and high relative to peers.
- Scoring is high this year and high relative to peers.
- His steals, assists, turnovers, and fouls are pretty much all where he has been in prior years.

...yet you and others say he regressed.



-

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

College football future Power Rankings: Quarterbacks​

Top QB Teams

22. Washington Huskies​

2023 ranking: 11
Returning starter: None
On the roster (as of March 12): Will Rogers, senior (Mississippi State transfer); Demond Williams Jr., freshman (Arizona transfer); Dermaricus Davis, freshman; Teddy Purcell, junior; Camdyn Stiegeler, sophomore

Washington is resetting after a coaching change, as the team gets set to enter the Big Ten. Michael Penix Jr. is gone after two record-setting seasons on Montlake, culminating with the Maxwell Award and a No. 2 finish in Heisman voting. Washington also lost promising young quarterback Austin Mack to former coach Kalen DeBoer and Alabama, and veteran reserve Dylan Morris to James Madison. But Jedd Fisch, who replaced DeBoer, has shown he can stabilize and elevate the quarterback spot. Washington received a huge boost when Will Rogers, the prolific Mississippi State transfer, opted to remain with the team after briefly entering the portal. Rogers set 29 records at Mississippi State, including passing yards (12,315) and touchdowns (94). He also set SEC completion records for single season (505 in 2021) and career (1,264). Although his numbers dropped in 2023, while operating a different offense after the death of former coach Mike Leach, Rogers has a chance to regenerate under Fisch, despite the unit's key personnel losses.

 

[Ranchdawg]

You start with a good point and then follow it up with a misdirected guess that forces politics into the discussion.
Boo! Lame!!

I didn't force politics in the conversation. I just stated a fact. There is a large contingent of Americans that hate our country. The number has grown steadily. Maybe you are too sensitive.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

Lot of hit dogs hollerin in this thread. Cracks me up.

 

[tcdog70]

I think when Fitz was a Soph he lead The SEC in total offense. What you must remember is his Jr and Sr year our wideouts were pretty average at best. How many passes did they drop--many.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

I think when Fitz was a Soph he lead The SEC in total offense. What you must remember is his Jr and Sr year our wideouts were pretty average at best. How many passes did they drop--many.

I dont think we got even close to leading sec in total offense any of the leach years. Even his last year.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Hunter Hines is making a good case right now