Why are many people on this board so toxic toward Cohen?

[Dawg_4_lifes]

Ok. I'll take the job. Stop begging me.
I will promise to cheat in every way possible in all sports. I will cheat just as much for WBB & Volleyball as I would for Football. I'll personally soften those pretzels and I'm sure we can put a strip club in the end zone. I'll try to see if we can do free beer for the early games.

 

[FreeDawg]

Our fans have got to stop using the excuse of “At the time of the hire it was a good hire”. ADs are measured by hires only using 1 metric: how it turned out. Moorehead was a disaster hire. A literal 17ing disaster. It doesn’t make 2 17s what fans of a cpl writers thought at the time of the hire. There isn’t a AD in history of sports who gets that pass.

Now moving on, I think most folks view Cohen as unqualified. He’s not the AD any other SEC school and that’s not good if you’re MSU. Now that doesn’t mean you have to be anti-Cohen but you will view him through a more critical lens. I’m in that camp. Even his best hire, Lemonis, he was played like a fool in the media by Schlossnegle (sp?). Thank god it worked out like it did and Cohen gets to reap the benefit of that hire being the AD. Fumbling Vic was awful. Leach looks like an ok hire, much better than Moorehead, but don’t forget we had Joe Judge hired and got left at the alter.

 

[Emma’s Dad]

Some observations:

1. Cohen has obviously done well in baseball program management. Hardly debatable.
2. Cohen’s management of football has been competent. Leach was a great hire. Don’t get the hate for Leach.
3. Basketball has been a failure or at least less than what is expected.
4. Overall, Cohen doesn’t show the flexibility and drive needed to get the NIL opportunities maximized in a time when speed and creativity are prerequisites.
5. Cohen always seems defensive. He is not charismatic. These qualities get in the way of leadership.
6. Hiring ADs from “within” is always less desirable because baggage is more difficult to shed and creativity is stymied.
7. But overall he is an average AD with his baseball success keeping him in the middle tier range.

 

[AlCoDog]

I’m impressed with how much you know about Kentucky baseball.

 

[PirateDawg]

Why censor? Allow people the freedom to show their ignorance.

 

[Cooterpoot]

John Cohen is a big State guy. I don't care about any politics. He's a guy that's hot and cold for people because he's a smart guy with some smart guy crazy. Some of you engineers should understand that. I don't think he's a bad guy. He does raise money. I think stuff outside of baseball is a bit of a struggle for him. The boosters put him there to do their bidding.
Covid expenses and NIL are tough to deal with. No one has ever dealt with those. So I'll cut him a break for that. I do think he's starting to listen to the fans a little more, which he needed to do. I also think our President is so over the top conservative he ties Cohen's hands sometimes.

 

[NWADog]

100% what DogStuckatUM said. During that run with Byrne and Stricklin we had Bob and even the AD’s doing videos all the time of construction on facilities and stuff going on within the program. They marketed with the hashtag HailState that didn’t exist to my knowledge before then. The branding and everything with the marketing department got fans feeling included and like they’re actually a part of the programs. That hasn’t been a thing for a long time now. Baseball has been different with very likeable players that stick around and same with the women basketball team they had players that were here for a while and we got to follow them and watch them grow and we rallied around them. Football and basketball has people leaving early all the time and coaching changes where we can’t attach ourselves to these players developing and bringing the programs up when the marketing is so bad.

I feel like the addition of Joel to do the Dear Ol State podcasts with player interviews and all of that with the coaches too has helped some but it’s just too late with the basketball program it feels like.

I hate Arkansas Twitter because of how they are so petty with post game wins and how they poke at teams but it’s genius and the fanbase eats that crap up and they get so many interactions with that.

there’s just not much if any spark of curiosity towards much of our programs right now. Just very stagnant feeling. The coaching failures with NMP vanishing before season after struggling to hold a program together, Moorhead not knowing how to be a players coach but also carrying out discipline in the program screwed that hire and Cann not being able to keep it in his pants are some things that Cohen didn’t have much control over and are hard to predict in my opinion. Those were all highly praised hires nationally

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I've always kind of thought that Keenum was interested more so in athletics because he had played football at Northeast.

 

[57stratdawg]

The season to end…..

 

[Go Budaw]

Outside of baseball, we're in pretty bad shape across the board. The biggest win he has had is keeping Darby-Dennis, and that ay be just because there weren't any big time openings in volleyball this season. Lets just say she got a lot of calls, but none from where her situation would be any better.

Football is losing excitement. Men's basketball is a disaster - this is the most talented roster ever at MSU and we are headed to a road game in the NIT. No excitement at all about the Hump renovation, which would have been major news not too long ago. NMP was a terrible hire. Novak has been a pleasant surprise. Softball is a disaster. We've lost momentum from a good run in women's golf and Ole Miss just won the natty.

Coaches don't make good athletic directors in the new era of College sports. Tanner at SC was terrible and Bertman at LSU wasn't great. We're getting killed in the NIL game. Some good talented staff have gone elsewhere (Our entire marketing department is basically at Clemson now). When he was hired, he wasn't a strong candidate. Wicker and Cook both had more upside. Wicker was a hot assistant AD at Georgia Tech at the time and is an MSU grad. He's the AD at San Diego State right now. Cook was the No. 2 at Texas A&M and he is now a VP at Baylor (non-athletics). Another MSU grad.

But yes, Lemonis was a good hire for baseball.

Football is losing excitement for reasons well beyond Cohen’s control. The general climate of the sport has made it impossible for MSU to achieve anything of significance ever again. But we have a more than competent coach (hired by Cohen) who has been a proven winner many times over at programs far worse than ours, and the year over year trajectory is headed in the right direction to at least sustain what we have been since 2010.

Men’s basketball isn’t looking great. That’s not on Cohen….he didn’t 17ing hire Howland and he’s not the one who reseated the Hump to kill the atmosphere (the GOAT ninja AD did that dumb ****). He’ll get his chance to rectify the first of those items shortly. Until then you can’t lay blame at his feet for our program unless you irrationally thought we should have fired Howland last year.

Baseball is baseball….arguably the best program in the nation going forward. Cohen had a direct hand in that from both his hire and his input on the new Dude and other facilities.

Volleyball is in good shape.

Anyone who really thinks he’s beyond hope as an AD simply based on Moorhead and NMP does not have a lot of critical thinking skills or experience as an MSU fan to realize how much worse it really could be. Or they are way too far in bed with their own politics, which is the more simple explanation because that is 90% of the whole country right now.

 

[olblue]

That would be the most talented team. It also happened last century, so it doesnt apply to the other part of my comment.
Not sure what your post is really saying since mine didnt exactly disagree with it. I simply said this team is a top 5 talent modern era team and top 3 this century. How is that so controversial?


I did say that there could be conversations around this being the most talented team. I would take the position that it is not the most talented team in the modern era, but I certainly dont mind a discussion. I will say that it would be worth having because the current team has a lot of talent and it could be reasonably argued that some on the current team in the top 9 rotation are better/more effective than the top 9 in the final four team.


But hey, I guess you dont view that as being a worthwhile discussion.

Please stop.

Thanks

 

[Smoked Toag]

John Cohen is a big State guy. I don't care about any politics. He's a guy that's hot and cold for people because he's a smart guy with some smart guy crazy. Some of you engineers should understand that. I don't think he's a bad guy. He does raise money. I think stuff outside of baseball is a bit of a struggle for him. The boosters put him there to do their bidding.
Covid expenses and NIL are tough to deal with. No one has ever dealt with those. So I'll cut him a break for that. I do think he's starting to listen to the fans a little more, which he needed to do. I also think our President is so over the top conservative he ties Cohen's hands sometimes.

Well what do you know, I agree with Cooterpoot on something.

Bottom line, Cohen has done alright. I'm happy to have him.

 

[Smoked Toag]

That’s fair. The problem with that thinking is that Henderson had to rebuild the UK program after Cohen left as well. Cohen left UK nothing when he went to State.

Henderson’s worst year was year 3, he went 8-22. Cohen’s worst year was year 2, he went 6-24. But, in year 7, Cohen went 8-22. So Cohen matched Henderson’s worst year…in year 7.

******** for several reasons. Henderson didn't have to rebuild anything, he was the #2 guy and was right there with Cohen the whole time. And it's not like he was terrible anyway.

Sports have ups and downs. We had an incredible amount of bad luck in 2015, then rebounded to win the damn SEC in 2016.

Just stop talking, you're a pure blooded moron.

Cohen rebuilt our baseball program from nothing and took us farther than your hero Polk. His tenure literally was the peak of MSU baseball until our run from 2018-now. We really should be talking about John Cohen as the godfather of MSU baseball rather than Ron Polk, if you want to know the truth.

 

[IPMdawg]

There were also rumors of him fumbling a Billy Napier hire early in the process. I guess he should get a little credit for passing on Jeremy Pruitt.

 

[maroonmania]

He could have seen it coming with Cannizaro. He was already passed over by Tulane for rumors about his personal behavior. That were definitely signs all over the place when he was hired. And there's the distinct possibility that he hired him just to piss off Paul Manieri.

I don't know, but it comes across as maybe Cohen not doing enough homework on these hires. You have Cannizaro with off field womanizing issues, Moorhead who would not know a culture of discipline or tough love if it hit him in the face, and NMP with some very serious health issues. For all 3 I would think those items could have been understood if you talked to the right people that knew them. Maybe he did know all of those items I mentioned for each of the 3 and hired them anyway, but if he did then he should not have been shocked at the end result with any of them.

 

[PuebloDawg]

John Cohen’s career record in the SEC is 171-215. He has coached 13 seasons as a SEC head baseball coach and has 6 winning seasons in SEC play. Slice it how ever you want it, make as many excuses as you want.

I was actually happy when he was announced as AD because I knew we would get a better baseball coach. And we did. Twice.

 

[Go Budaw]

I was told by someone on this board that is an actual insider that Cohen is the guy the shot caller boosters wanted and doesn’t do anything without their permission. He ain’t running the program, they are.

You don’t have to quote any actual insider. Newsflash….that’s how every SEC athletic department operates. That’s especially true with football and men’s basketball, and everything associated with them from coaching hires to facilities upgrades. At least with Cohen we have a guy who can have autonomy in baseball who we know will do a great job with all aspects of management….as long as he’s not stuck trying to hire a new head coach in November.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Agreed but with us being the "runt" of the SEC an average AD ain't gonna cut it. We'll fall farther and farther behind

 

[Motodawg]

I kind of thought that was understood, but i guess not. This person literally said Cohen was the most we had ever had and that it wasn’t even close.

 

[VegasDawg13]

John Cohen’s career record in the SEC is 171-215. He has coached 13 seasons as a SEC head baseball coach and has 6 winning seasons in SEC play. Slice it how ever you want it, make as many excuses as you want.

I've tried slicing it every which way, but I still can't find a cross-section that shows "John Cohen was a bad baseball coach." My blade must be dull.

 

[WilCoDawg]

So seven years is his limit with mediocrity? Ok.

 

[VegasDawg13]

Our fans have got to stop using the excuse of “At the time of the hire it was a good hire”. ADs are measured by hires only using 1 metric: how it turned out. Moorehead was a disaster hire. A literal 17ing disaster. It doesn’t make 2 17s what fans of a cpl writers thought at the time of the hire. There isn’t a AD in history of sports who gets that pass.

Now moving on, I think most folks view Cohen as unqualified. He’s not the AD any other SEC school and that’s not good if you’re MSU. Now that doesn’t mean you have to be anti-Cohen but you will view him through a more critical lens. I’m in that camp. Even his best hire, Lemonis, he was played like a fool in the media by Schlossnegle (sp?). Thank god it worked out like it did and Cohen gets to reap the benefit of that hire being the AD. Fumbling Vic was awful. Leach looks like an ok hire, much better than Moorehead, but don’t forget we had Joe Judge hired and got left at the alter.

I think it's a mistake to judge someone in sports by results over process. There's just too much variance and often a small sample size. If you disagree, that's fine.

But here you are, criticizing the results of the Moorhead hire, saying defending the process is "an excuse," while criticizing the process of the Leach and Lemonis hires, regardless of the results. It's gotta be one or the other.

 

[Connor Mead]

In most positions at Mississippi State, I would agree with you 100 percent.

Athletics Director is one place though where you'd almost need a person with inside knowledge and known to the fanbase-- edit to add and just as importantly donors.

I'm not saying that he'd be my automatic choice-- I'd have taken a really strong look at Wetherbee too for instance.

From what I have been told the donor part is what could be his ultimate downfall. He has made zero friends with major donors, and does not consult with them as he should (this is my understanding only).

 

[Maroon Eagle]

We just found the one person other than Ron Polk who wanted Tommy Raffo to be our head coach. **

 

[PuebloDawg]

My post has nothing to do with Polk. Polk 2 was the worst hire in MSU baseball history and that cannot be debated. Polk’s biggest strength as a manager (in his heyday) was letting his players play. Ironic that his protege has the nickname “the Meddler” for bunting out of winning ballgames.

 

[PuebloDawg]

Henderson absolutely had to rebuild. Check out who Kentucky lost off that team. Good God. Kentucky lost their top 4 hitters and 4 of their top 6 pitchers.

Cohen had a choice of a full rebuild at State (Polk’s creation) or a full rebuild at Kentucky (his creation). He chose more money at State.

 

[maroonmania]

The MSU nepotism that's held us back for years is an issue too. The fact we chose not to do a search and hire the best person is unacceptable for any job.

Problem is you can do all the searching you want and you will absolutely not know who the 'best person' is until after the fact. Its obvious that Vic Schaefer and Chris Lemonis WERE the 'best person' after their hiring search. Its also obvious that Joe Moorhead and NMP were not. Mike Leach is the most proven P5 HC we've probably ever hired in any sport but we aren't going to get a successful sitting P5 HC in WBB. Even SR today said it was likely going to be a G5 HC we hire (assuming we don't hire Novak). We won't really know much of anything about what kind of coach they would be in the SEC if that is who we bring in just like we didn't know with NMP. We've already seen that Novak stacks up quite well in the SEC at least as far as the on court coaching goes.

 

[Joe Schmedlap]

John Cohen is a big State guy. I don't care about any politics. He's a guy that's hot and cold for people because he's a smart guy with some smart guy crazy. Some of you engineers should understand that. I don't think he's a bad guy. He does raise money. I think stuff outside of baseball is a bit of a struggle for him. The boosters put him there to do their bidding.
Covid expenses and NIL are tough to deal with. No one has ever dealt with those. So I'll cut him a break for that. I do think he's starting to listen to the fans a little more, which he needed to do. I also think our President is so over the top conservative he ties Cohen's hands sometimes.

Cohen is definitely smart, but he sometimes thinks too much and overanalyzes things. He did that as a coach and he does that as an athletic director. He’s not aloof like Templeton, but he is not as warm and engaging as he needs to be sometimes. He’s a Bulldog through and through, of that we can be certain. He wants nothing but the best for State. Having said all that, he’s no Ninja. He won’t stab his alma mater in the back like the cheerleader, and that’s a big big plus.

 

[DAWG61]

They or someone they know was cut from one of Cohen's baseball teams