Why did Tanner retire in 2012?

[18IsTheMan]

Refresh my memory. Was there a health concern or family issue? I don't recall the ins and outs, only that he did retire and was then named AD. He was only 54 at the time and was at the helm of the premiere program in college baseball. We were a powerhouse and mainstay for much of his time here, going to 6 CWS, wining 2 and finishing as the runner up 2 other times. 54 is young as far head coaches are concerned. Was he encouraged to retire in order to take the AD role? Not sure why you'd ask the most successful coach in your school's history at the time to retire. Either way, it was an ill-fated move for both sides. The baseball team began to spiral as soon as he left, and he's never found much sure footing as an AD. I don't think he's been as bad as some here think, but if he was an A+ baseball coach, he's been about a B-/C+ AD.

 

[Spurman54]

Refresh my memory. Was there a health concern or family issue? I don't recall the ins and outs, only that he did retire and was then named AD. He was only 54 at the time and was at the helm of the premiere program in college baseball. We were a powerhouse and mainstay for much of his time here, going to 6 CWS, wining 2 and finishing as the runner up 2 other times. 54 is young as far head coaches are concerned. Was he encouraged to retire in order to take the AD role? Not sure why you'd ask the most successful coach in your school's history at the time to retire. Either way, it was an ill-fated move for both sides. The baseball team began to spiral as soon as he left, and he's never found much sure footing as an AD. I don't think he's been as bad as some here think, but if he was an A+ baseball coach, he's been about a B-/C+ AD.

Tanner in my humble opinion was given a gift from his maker and he walked away from that precious gift. As an athletic director he made sure that we kept Dawn Staley. A+ for that, be the Will Muschamp hire turned out to be a disaster as we all know. Overall Tanner does not have a true vision of getting all the sports better than mediocre. I mean look at softball if it wasn't for USC being in the SEC they would not have made the NCAA softball tourney. The mens and womens track and field have been awful. Curtis Frye to his credit did win the first national championship with the women winning the national championship. After that like Frank Martin below mediocre. But it appears that Tanner made a good hire in the track program, and boy did he get lucky with Lamont Parris in the mens basketball program. The mens and womens golf and tennis have been successful. So I say overall I give Ray Tanner a grade of D which is probably too high because if he was in the corporate world he would have been fired a long time ago. The successful corporations do not put up with mediocrity. In today's world like "coaches" who have that special gift they are far and few. That is why a lot of schools tried to get Dawn Staley but thank goodness she decided to stay.

 

[LonghornsGamecocks]

Ray Tanner did not hire Frank Martin.

 

[jasonscottinsc]

From what I recall, he retired from coaching because he had done everything he could do as a coach and had a long desire to be in administration going back to his days when he first took on administrative duties at NC State and was later sitting on various administrative committees while at USC. When Eric Hyman left, it was the perfect timing for him.

As for his track record as A.D..... you can't bash him for hires that didn't work out and then say he got luck with Lamont Paris. Give him credit for a good hire. To me, the only bad or questionable hire he made (at the actual time the coach was hired) was Muschamp. Of course that only happened because Kirby Smart's agent pulled the rug out from underneath USC and that's what we were left with. The Beamer hire was good because USC had to try something different for a football program has had very little success in 125+ years and probably won't have much success in the next 125+ years for a myriad of reasons.

As for other hires... Paris was a good hire. Holbrook was the right hire AT THE TIME HE WAS HIRED. It didn't work out, but was the right hire (similar to Tom Herman at Texas football years back). Sometimes good hires just don't work out. Kingston was OK because he did some decent things at programs that had no resources... of course Kingston wasn't the first choice as Florida's O'Sullivan was set to come here but then the Gators got hot in the postseason and won the World Series so Florida's A.D. promised to build Sully a new stadium if he stayed and the rest is history. As for Kingston - up and down at USC, so his time may be up after this year.

Tanner is also responsible for Keeping Staley here when Ohio State was set to hire her away about a decade ago. He doesn't get enough credit for that.

From an economic standpoint, USC Athletics operates in "the black" most years which only a handful of schools around the country can say, so he's done some good things from a business standpoint as far as the University is concerned.

 

[IBreakForGamecocks]

From what I recall, he retired from coaching because he had done everything he could do as a coach and had a long desire to be in administration going back to his days when he first took on administrative duties at NC State and was later sitting on various administrative committees while at USC. When Eric Hyman left, it was the perfect timing for him.

As for his track record as A.D..... you can't bash him for hires that didn't work out and then say he got luck with Lamont Paris. Give him credit for a good hire. To me, the only bad or questionable hire he made (at the actual time the coach was hired) was Muschamp. Of course that only happened because Kirby Smart's agent pulled the rug out from underneath USC and that's what we were left with. The Beamer hire was good because USC had to try something different for a football program has had very little success in 125+ years and probably won't have much success in the next 125+ years for a myriad of reasons.

As for other hires... Paris was a good hire. Holbrook was the right hire AT THE TIME HE WAS HIRED. It didn't work out, but was the right hire (similar to Tom Herman at Texas football years back). Sometimes good hires just don't work out. Kingston was OK because he did some decent things at programs that had no resources... of course Kingston wasn't the first choice as Florida's O'Sullivan was set to come here but then the Gators got hot in the postseason and won the World Series so Florida's A.D. promised to build Sully a new stadium if he stayed and the rest is history. As for Kingston - up and down at USC, so his time may be up after this year.

Tanner is also responsible for Keeping Staley here when Ohio State was set to hire her away about a decade ago. He doesn't get enough credit for that.

From an economic standpoint, USC Athletics operates in "the black" most years which only a handful of schools around the country can say, so he's done some good things from a business standpoint as far as the University is concerned.

Yes, I remember when Tanner was hired he talked about having always aspired to be an AD. And he knew when he gave up the baseball program that he would get the AD position. If Hyman had not left, Ray would have continued to coach baseball until another opportunity came up.
And I agree that it was pretty clear that Sullivan was going to come here until they won the CWS and the AD sweetened the pot. I believe he has family in this area. I agree that Tanner has not been a great AD but you cannot fault him for Sullivan deciding to stay at Florida.

 

[18IsTheMan]

From what I recall, he retired from coaching because he had done everything he could do as a coach and had a long desire to be in administration going back to his days when he first took on administrative duties at NC State and was later sitting on various administrative committees while at USC. When Eric Hyman left, it was the perfect timing for him.

As for his track record as A.D..... you can't bash him for hires that didn't work out and then say he got luck with Lamont Paris. Give him credit for a good hire. To me, the only bad or questionable hire he made (at the actual time the coach was hired) was Muschamp. Of course that only happened because Kirby Smart's agent pulled the rug out from underneath USC and that's what we were left with. The Beamer hire was good because USC had to try something different for a football program has had very little success in 125+ years and probably won't have much success in the next 125+ years for a myriad of reasons.

As for other hires... Paris was a good hire. Holbrook was the right hire AT THE TIME HE WAS HIRED. It didn't work out, but was the right hire (similar to Tom Herman at Texas football years back). Sometimes good hires just don't work out. Kingston was OK because he did some decent things at programs that had no resources... of course Kingston wasn't the first choice as Florida's O'Sullivan was set to come here but then the Gators got hot in the postseason and won the World Series so Florida's A.D. promised to build Sully a new stadium if he stayed and the rest is history. As for Kingston - up and down at USC, so his time may be up after this year.

Tanner is also responsible for Keeping Staley here when Ohio State was set to hire her away about a decade ago. He doesn't get enough credit for that.

From an economic standpoint, USC Athletics operates in "the black" most years which only a handful of schools around the country can say, so he's done some good things from a business standpoint as far as the University is concerned.

Yeah, I don't view him as poorly at AD as others do. Holbrook was a no-brainer hire at the time. Did he retain Holbrook too long? That's always debatable. Muschamp was a bad hire. However, given that none of know the behind the scenes, I've always felt he was kind of an emergency hire. Nobody was lining up for this job. This program was in the toilet at the time. So bad that a HOF coach quit mid season. We had a walkon starting at QB, and not a surprisingly good walkon. Lost to an FCS team. If not for extenuating circumstances, that hire would be an F. I give him a C- for it, though. I simply believe he landed on Muschamp after nobody else wanted the job. Paris was a grand slam home run hire, though, and, yes, he deserves all the credit for it. Can't give him all the blame but none of the credit. The Beamer hire is up in the air. Looked promising early. Not so much last year. It was definitely a high risk/high reward move. The Kingston hire? Meh. Bottom line is that the AD is going to be judged ultimately on the football hire and to a lesser degree on the MBB hire.

To the retirement question, I guess he just didn't have that particular competitive fire and drive to just keep winning. He'd won 2 titles and that was enough for him, which is totally reasonable.

 

[gamecock stock]

Tanner focused on hiring Sean Miller for the men's basketball job and struck out. Then he looked at a lower division, hiring Paris who was a proven winner at Chattanooga. In football, he focused on hiring Herman and Smart. He struck out and then settled for hiring a proven failure as a Head Coach in Muschamp. And he followed that up by hiring Beamer, who has never been a Head Coach, nor OC or DC. In both football hires, Tanner could have done what he did in basketball....hire a proven winner from a lower level. But, he did not. Hiring a proven winner from a lower level does not always work out. But, it improves the odds of working out. Ray's legacy as a baseball coach is secure. But his legacy as AD is in Beamer's hands. If Beamer fails, as Muschamp did, Tanner will not be looked at fondly as AD. Why? Because football is the money sport. An ADs tenure is measured by how the football program does. Fair or unfair, as Steve Spurrier would say: "It is what it is".

 

[atl-cock]

From what I recall, he retired from coaching because he had done everything he could do as a coach and had a long desire to be in administration going back to his days when he first took on administrative duties at NC State and was later sitting on various administrative committees while at USC. When Eric Hyman left, it was the perfect timing for him.

As for his track record as A.D..... you can't bash him for hires that didn't work out and then say he got luck with Lamont Paris. Give him credit for a good hire. To me, the only bad or questionable hire he made (at the actual time the coach was hired) was Muschamp. Of course that only happened because Kirby Smart's agent pulled the rug out from underneath USC and that's what we were left with. The Beamer hire was good because USC had to try something different for a football program has had very little success in 125+ years and probably won't have much success in the next 125+ years for a myriad of reasons.

As for other hires... Paris was a good hire. Holbrook was the right hire AT THE TIME HE WAS HIRED. It didn't work out, but was the right hire (similar to Tom Herman at Texas football years back). Sometimes good hires just don't work out. Kingston was OK because he did some decent things at programs that had no resources... of course Kingston wasn't the first choice as Florida's O'Sullivan was set to come here but then the Gators got hot in the postseason and won the World Series so Florida's A.D. promised to build Sully a new stadium if he stayed and the rest is history. As for Kingston - up and down at USC, so his time may be up after this year.

Tanner is also responsible for Keeping Staley here when Ohio State was set to hire her away about a decade ago. He doesn't get enough credit for that.

From an economic standpoint, USC Athletics operates in "the black" most years which only a handful of schools around the country can say, so he's done some good things from a business standpoint as far as the University is concerned.

This is correct. Eric Hyman's resignation was excellent timing for RT to move into athletics administration. Had Hyman stayed on, RT probably would have taken an AD opportunity at a mid-major somewhere in the Carolinas in the next 2-3 years. The only difference is that Holbrook would have taken over as head coach in 2015 or so instead of 2013.

No health concerns, no family issues, no encouragement to retire. If he had wanted to stay on as head coach, he would still be in the dugout each spring. I recall him mentioning during our last few trips to Omaha how tough it is to get there. I imagine that had he stayed in the dugout, we would have gotten to Omaha at least a few more times in the last dozen years, but not every year.

 

[Blues man]

This is correct. Eric Hyman's resignation was excellent timing for RT to move into athletics administration. Had Hyman stayed on, RT probably would have taken an AD opportunity at a mid-major somewhere in the Carolinas in the next 2-3 years. The only difference is that Holbrook would have taken over as head coach in 2015 or so instead of 2013.

No health concerns, no family issues, no encouragement to retire. If he had wanted to stay on as head coach, he would still be in the dugout each spring. I recall him mentioning during our last few trips to Omaha how tough it is to get there. I imagine that had he stayed in the dugout, we would have gotten to Omaha at least a few more times in the last dozen years, but not every year.

Yeah hard to say how many more trips we would have made to Omaha. He could have ridden his success a bit longer... especially in recruiting for sure.
I'm probably by myself in this opinion but I attributed much of his success to his foresight on how to handle and adapt to the changes made to the ball and then bat (or vice versa?) just prior to 2010. He seemed to be ahead of the curve in that way... to his credit. Do we have the back to back and almost back again championship run without those equipment changes? IDK. Not sure he would have become AD either. Funny how something as little as equipment could have changed the trajectory of an entire athletic department for decades. lol

 

[Rogue Cock]

Tanner in my humble opinion was given a gift from his maker and he walked away from that precious gift. As an athletic director he made sure that we kept Dawn Staley. A+ for that, be the Will Muschamp hire turned out to be a disaster as we all know. Overall Tanner does not have a true vision of getting all the sports better than mediocre. I mean look at softball if it wasn't for USC being in the SEC they would not have made the NCAA softball tourney. The mens and womens track and field have been awful. Curtis Frye to his credit did win the first national championship with the women winning the national championship. After that like Frank Martin below mediocre. But it appears that Tanner made a good hire in the track program, and boy did he get lucky with Lamont Parris in the mens basketball program. The mens and womens golf and tennis have been successful. So I say overall I give Ray Tanner a grade of D which is probably too high because if he was in the corporate world he would have been fired a long time ago. The successful corporations do not put up with mediocrity. In today's world like "coaches" who have that special gift they are far and few. That is why a lot of schools tried to get Dawn Staley but thank goodness she decided to stay.

Hiring and firing are far from the ADs only responsibility. He is responsible for getting the funding through private donation and state band funding to build all the new facilities in the athletic department and that is with a state imposed cap on spending for athletic facilities. He is also responsible for student-athletes performance in the classroom.....over 35 straight semesters of student-athletes having at least a 3.0 GPA (best in conference IIRC). He is also responaible for the overall budget, where we haven't fallen into the red despite many other programs doing so.

 

[Spurman54]

Hiring and are far from the ADs only responsibility. He is responsible for getting the funding through private donation and state band funding to build all the new facilities in the athletic department and that is with a state imposed cap on spending for athletic facilities. He is also responsible for student-athletes performance in the classroom.....over 35 straight semesters of student-athletes having at least a 3.0 GPA (best in conference IIRC). He is also responaible for the overall budget, where we haven't fallen into the red despite many other programs doing so.

The students are responsible for going to class and getting the grade that they earned. Anyone with a financial degree and background can supply a zero budget. Like you if you spend more than what you have you are responsible for getting your finances back in order. With that being said that is part of the job not accepting mediocrity in sports like womens softball ( look at Beverly Smiths overall record in the SEC. No other school in the SEC would have put up with that. Our swimming program and track program have underachieved so bad. Curtis Frye road the success of one national championship and no SEC championships. Our swimming program until Tanner finally realized that he needed to hire a swimming coach who knows what it takes to win in the SEC. He hired the swimming coach from Florida. Overall Tanner if he was working for a corporate 500 company would have been fired a long time ago. That is a fact not an opinion.

 

[Cluster Cock]

I spoke about this on another thread, but for those who may not have seen it I'll restate it. Pre Covid we had a sports club here at Myrtle Beach that met every month or so, around 20 - 25 guys, Clyde Wrenn would bring in speakers from a wide range of friendships he had.

Ray Tanner spoke to us shortly after becoming AD. His own words were that after the 2nd Championship Tennesse was coming hard after Chad Holbrook. Tennessee offered Holbrook $800K to become head coach. Ray was making $600K after winning 2 Championships. Chad was going to take the job. Ray said he told Chad he only wanted to coach 1 more year and if he stayed on he would be offered the Head Coach job.

 

[Rogue Cock]

I spoke about this on another thread, but for those who may not have seen it I'll restate it. Pre Covid we had a sports club here at Myrtle Beach that met every month or so, around 20 - 25 guys, Clyde Wrenn would bring in speakers from a wide range of friendships he had.

Ray Tanner spoke to us shortly after becoming AD. His own words were that after the 2nd Championship Tennesse was coming hard after Chad Holbrook. Tennessee offered Holbrook $800K to become head coach. Ray was making $600K after winning 2 Championships. Chad was going to take the job. Ray said he told Chad he only wanted to coach 1 more year and if he stayed on he would be offered the Head Coach job.

Sounds like the Stoops - Riley situation at Oklahoma after Riley interviewed with us.

 

[Maccmaine12]

I always thought the criticism of Ray Tanner as an AD was silly. It’s no program in the history of sports got every hire right. Focusing on just the negative is a terrible way to look at his tenure. He’s done a lot of positive for the program. We ran into some bad luck as a program when it comes to sports under his tenure as well.

 

[Spurman54]

I always thought the criticism of Ray Tanner as an AD was silly. It’s no program in the history of sports got every hire right. Focusing on just the negative is a terrible way to look at his tenure. He’s done a lot of positive for the program. We ran into some bad luck as a program when it comes to sports under his tenure as well.

Bad luck is like potential. It wIll get you fired. Like Lou Holtz once said "potential" will get you fired if you do not translate it into more wins than loses.

 

[KingWard]

Tanner in my humble opinion was given a gift from his maker and he walked away from that precious gift. As an athletic director he made sure that we kept Dawn Staley. A+ for that...

ANYBODY would have done that. It was a no-brainer to take care of that. You don't get brownie points for doing the obvious.

 

[Rogue Cock]

But not anybody COULD have done that. TOSU wanted Staley bad.

 

[KingWard]

But not anybody COULD have done that. TOSU wanted Staley bad.

That was going to be an initiative involving way more than Ray, and way more than anyone else who might have been in the AD's chair. Put it this way, no one in that chair would have been PERMITTED to lose Staley.

 

[Rogue Cock]

That was going to be an initiative involving way more than Ray, and way more than anyone else who might have been in the AD's chair. Put it this way, no one in that chair would have been PERMITTED to lose Staley.

We never offered the $$$ that TOSU did....couldn't or wouldn't, not sure. From everything I've understood, the relationships Tanner built with the coaches from the moment he took office made the difference in that one. Tanner recieved the call from TOSU for permission to talk to Staley and he granted it and immediately called Staley to let her know and get a jump on TOSU, he did and she got a $1M contract, pre-approved by the President and the BOT. She spoke to TOSU on the phone but removed her name from consideration and never made the trip to Columbus. From the TOSU site, they were offering $1.3 to $1,5M for her. A couple of board members were considering another coaching search was going to be necessary.

 

[KingWard]

We never offered the $$$ that TOSU did....couldn't or wouldn't, not sure. From everything I've understood, the relationships Tanner built with the coaches from the moment he took office made the difference in that one. Tanner recieved the call from TOSU for permission to talk to Staley and he granted it and immediately called Staley to let her know and get a jump on TOSU, he did and she got a $1M contract, pre-approved by the President and the BOT. She spoke to TOSU on the phone but removed her name from consideration and never made the trip to Columbus. From the TOSU site, they were offering $1.3 to $1,5M for her. A couple of board members were considering another coaching search was going to be necessary.

This last deal went way beyond him. Probably the one in 2015 also. You know it and I know it. Had her Mama died when Ohio State came calling? Nope. That was a major factor in her motivations all the way back, this being her Mama's state of origin. I am intransigent on Tanner being anything more than a jovial suit-stuffer.

 

[Rogue Cock]

This last deal went way beyond him. You know it and I know it. Had her Mama died when Ohio State came calling? That was a major factor in her motivations all the way back, this being her Mama's state of origin.

2013. Four years before her mom died. Definitely was not beyond him…within a short time of TOSUs contact, he had all the approvals wrapped up.

 

[KingWard]

2013. Four years before her mom died. Definitely was not beyond him…within a short time of TOSUs contact, he had all the approvals wrapped up.

Just doing what everyone in leadership and most people in the Gamecock Nation would have skewered him for not doing. The approvals he needed came from people who were more than amenable. The coach herself didn't want to leave.

If he were a cutting-edge guy, we would have seen more across-the-broad success than we have. He certainly wouldn't have let the one program he built languish as it has. Of course, I give place to the fact we could conceivably make it to Omaha come June, but I'm taking the under.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Just doing what everyone in leadership and most people in the Gamecock Nation would have skewered him for not doing. The approvals he needed came from people who were more than amenable. The coach herself didn't want to leave.

If he were a cutting-edge guy, we would have seen more across-the-broad success than we have. He certainly wouldn't have let the one program he built languish as it has. Of course, I give place to the fact we could conceivably make it to Omaha come June, but I'm taking the under.

You do know that Holbrook was offered $800K to coach there the year Hyman picked up and left for TAMU. He was the hottest coaching candidate out there at the time. Tanner was tired of coaching and may have become AD at NCSU where he was an assistant AD and head baseball coach under Valvano. Sure the President and the BOT were amenable (to a certain extent)....but the AD had the foresight to ask before TOSU even talked to her and had a package approved. TOSU was a much bigger danger than you want to admit....they have $$$ and are willing to spend large amounts of it to get what they want. If TOSU had ever got her to Columbus....all bets are off. Columbus is a very nice place to live.

 

[KingWard]

You do know that Holbrook was offered $800K to coach there the year Hyman picked up and left for TAMU. He was the hottest coaching candidate out there at the time. Tanner was tired of coaching and may have become AD at NCSU where he was an assistant AD and head baseball coach under Valvano. Sure the President and the BOT were amenable (to a certain extent)....but the AD had the foresight to ask before TOSU even talked to her and had a package approved. TOSU was a much bigger danger than you want to admit....they have $$$ and are willing to spend large amounts of it to get what they want. If TOSU had ever got her to Columbus....all bets are off. Columbus is a very nice place to live.

No doubt. Ohio State is the best of everything measurable and a great university. That just means she wanted to stay for reasons not measurable.

 

[Colabroker]

From what I recall, he retired from coaching because he had done everything he could do as a coach and had a long desire to be in administration going back to his days when he first took on administrative duties at NC State and was later sitting on various administrative committees while at USC. When Eric Hyman left, it was the perfect timing for him.

As for his track record as A.D..... you can't bash him for hires that didn't work out and then say he got luck with Lamont Paris. Give him credit for a good hire. To me, the only bad or questionable hire he made (at the actual time the coach was hired) was Muschamp. Of course that only happened because Kirby Smart's agent pulled the rug out from underneath USC and that's what we were left with. The Beamer hire was good because USC had to try something different for a football program has had very little success in 125+ years and probably won't have much success in the next 125+ years for a myriad of reasons.

As for other hires... Paris was a good hire. Holbrook was the right hire AT THE TIME HE WAS HIRED. It didn't work out, but was the right hire (similar to Tom Herman at Texas football years back). Sometimes good hires just don't work out. Kingston was OK because he did some decent things at programs that had no resources... of course Kingston wasn't the first choice as Florida's O'Sullivan was set to come here but then the Gators got hot in the postseason and won the World Series so Florida's A.D. promised to build Sully a new stadium if he stayed and the rest is history. As for Kingston - up and down at USC, so his time may be up after this year.

Tanner is also responsible for Keeping Staley here when Ohio State was set to hire her away about a decade ago. He doesn't get enough credit for that.

From an economic standpoint, USC Athletics operates in "the black" most years which only a handful of schools around the country can say, so he's done some good things from a business standpoint as far as the University is concerned.

Kevin O’Sullivan was never coming here. A myth that never seems to die

 

[Colabroker]

ANYBODY would have done that. It was a no-brainer to take care of that. You don't get brownie points for doing the obvious.

Typical reponse from someone just wanting to criticize Tanner. Tanner made sure right away she never made the trip to Ohio St. by giving her everything she wanted to stay. Silly to,say anyway would have done that in hindsight. Give credit where it’s due.

 

[THEusccocks]

Refresh my memory. Was there a health concern or family issue? I don't recall the ins and outs, only that he did retire and was then named AD. He was only 54 at the time and was at the helm of the premiere program in college baseball. We were a powerhouse and mainstay for much of his time here, going to 6 CWS, wining 2 and finishing as the runner up 2 other times. 54 is young as far head coaches are concerned. Was he encouraged to retire in order to take the AD role? Not sure why you'd ask the most successful coach in your school's history at the time to retire. Either way, it was an ill-fated move for both sides. The baseball team began to spiral as soon as he left, and he's never found much sure footing as an AD. I don't think he's been as bad as some here think, but if he was an A+ baseball coach, he's been about a B-/C+ AD.

He was tired of so much winning

 

[KingWard]

Typical reponse from someone just wanting to criticize Tanner. Tanner made sure right away she never made the trip to Ohio St. by giving her everything she wanted to stay. Silly to,say anyway would have done that in hindsight. Give credit where it’s due.

I always give credit - where it's due. The coach stayed because she was predisposed to stay and they made her a gesture; it's simple as that. You're not thinking she stayed because we could do more for her than Ohio State could, do you? Now, THAT would be silly.

 

[jasonscottinsc]

Kevin O’Sullivan was never coming here. A myth that never seems to die

Actually he was.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Actually he was.

Yep.