Why is A&M perceived to be a coach away from great success?

[18IsTheMan]

Every time A&M is ready to hire a new coach, it's always the same thing "boy, oh, boy, if they get the right coach...look out!"

History just doesn't support that.

In the last 70 years, they've been ranked 26 times. Their best run ever was 1991-1994 under Slocum when they won 10 or more games each season but lost bowl games in 3 of those years (ineligible the other).

They've only finished ranked 6 times since 2000. We've finished ranked 7 times in that time span.

They've won 10 or more games in a season 4x in the last 30 years.

They've had a winning conference record 4x since 2000.

As far as getting the right coach. Bear Bryant was an ok coach there. He went to Alabama and became legendary. Gene Stallings did not do well there. He went to Alabama and became a championship coach and won 80% of his games. Jimbo Fisher was a championship coach before arriving at A&M and immediately became mediocre. Dennis Franchione had Alabama looking good, then he departed for A&M and was mediocre there.

I just don't see any historical support for them being a coach away from becoming a juggernaut. I don't know why it has never happened, but it hasn't. They have all the money you could want. All the resources. All the talent. It's just never clicked.

 

[Deleted11512]

Every time A&M is ready to hire a new coach, it's always the same thing "boy, oh, boy, if they get the right coach...look out!"

History just doesn't support that.

In the last 70 years, they've been ranked 26 times. Their best run ever was 1991-1994 under Slocum when they won 10 or more games each season but lost bowl games in 3 of those years (ineligible the other).

They've only finished ranked 6 times since 2000. We've finished ranked 7 times in that time span.

They've won 10 or more games in a season 4x in the last 30 years.

They've had a winning conference record 4x since 2000.

As far as getting the right coach. Bear Bryant was an ok coach there. He went to Alabama and became legendary. Gene Stallings did not do well there. He went to Alabama and became a championship coach and won 80% of his games. Jimbo Fisher was a championship coach before arriving at A&M and immediately became mediocre. Dennis Franchione had Alabama looking good, then he departed for A&M and was mediocre there.

I just don't see any historical support for them being a coach away from becoming a juggernaut. I don't know why it has never happened, but it hasn't. They have all the money you could want. All the resources. All the talent. It's just never clicked.

That’s exactly what makes them a sleeping giant. They have everything they need. Just haven’t put it together. A lot of people say the same about us. When you look at the school size, alumni base, rabid fan base, great facilities, fertile recruiting grounds, Top 20-25 valuable program, etc…no reason for our history. The ingredients are there for a much better product.

 

[vacock]

Money

 

[18IsTheMan]

That’s exactly what makes them a sleeping giant. They have everything they need. Just haven’t put it together. A lot of people say the same about us. When you look at the school size, alumni base, rabid fan base, great facilities, fertile recruiting grounds, Top 20-25 valuable program, etc…no reason for our history. The ingredients are there for a much better product.

I just don't see any support for them being anything other than what they have historically been.

Same goes for us. Sadly.

 

[Deleted11512]

I just don't see any support for them being anything other than what they have historically been.

Same goes for us. Sadly.

That's bc we're sleeping.

 

[18IsTheMan]

It raises a question in my mind of who would take the job knowing you'll be fired if you don't contend for a national title at a program that hasn't contended for a national title in nearly 100 years?

Obviously, someone will take the job because A&M will make them an offer they can't refuse. Financially it's a no-brainer. Career-wise, it's suicide.

They haven't had a coach go out on good terms since..........? Even their best coach ever, Slocum, was forced to resign.

 

[Deleted11512]

It raises a question in my mind of who would take the job knowing you'll be fired if you don't contend for a national title at a program that hasn't contended for a national title in nearly 100 years?

Obviously, someone will take the job because A&M will make them an offer they can't refuse. Financially it's a no-brainer. Career-wise, it's suicide.

They haven't had a coach go out on good terms since..........? Even their best coach ever, Slocum, was forced to resign.

If you gave me an $85M guaranteed contract I'd do it in a sec. Jimbo is a NC winning coach. He'll rebound. If WVU had any sense at all they'd fire Brown and bring Jimbo home.

 

[18IsTheMan]

If you gave me an $85M guaranteed contract I'd do it in a sec. Jimbo is a NC winning coach. He'll rebound. If WVU had any sense at all they'd fire Brown and bring Jimbo home.

I dunno about Jimbo. His greatest success at FSU was with Winston. Things trended down after he left. If he's that great of a coach, why didn't it translate at A&M? There are zero limitations there. They have all the money, all the resources, all the facilities and he had top-flight recruiting classes...including the best rated recruiting class ever.

Jimbo, for his part, is 58 and just got a guaranteed payday of $76 million. Not only will he never have to work again. Neither will his kids.

 

[The Reel Ess]

What else should be their goal?

 

[Deleted11512]

I dunno about Jimbo. His greatest success at FSU was with Winston. Things trended down after he left. If he's that great of a coach, why didn't it translate at A&M? There are zero limitations there. They have all the money, all the resources, all the facilities and he had top-flight recruiting classes...including the best rated recruiting class ever.

Jimbo, for his part, is 58 and just got a guaranteed payday of $76 million. Not only will he never have to work again. Neither will his kids.

You could say that about a lot of coaches. But he was at FSU for 8 years, won 10+ 6 of them, won the ACC 3 times, won the NC, won a BCS bowl, ws 5-2 in bowl games. It's not like he had 2 good years and that's it. Prior to him taking over they had 1 10 win season in the previous 9 years. No idea why it didn't translate other than just getting chewed up by the SEC. He never had a good QB either, which is a necessity in this league. I also remember early on him dicking around with playcalling...he was calling plays, then decided to let his OC call plays. I think that went on a few times, similar to how Malzahn finished at AU.

 

[18IsTheMan]

You could say that about a lot of coaches. But he was at FSU for 8 years, won 10+ 6 of them, won the ACC 3 times, won the NC, won a BCS bowl, ws 5-2 in bowl games. It's not like he had 2 good years and that's it. Prior to him taking over they had 1 10 win season in the previous 9 years. No idea why it didn't translate other than just getting chewed up by the SEC. He never had a good QB either, which is a necessity in this league. I also remember early on him dicking around with playcalling...he was calling plays, then decided to let his OC call plays. I think that went on a few times, similar to how Malzahn finished at AU.

Our fans also dismiss Dabo's success as a product of having 2 great QBs, so I'm just applying that rationale here.

Don't our fans routinely argue that success in the ACC is exaggerated given the level of competition? If that is the case, then his record at A&M is a more accurate indicator, right?

 

[ToddFlanders]

Every time A&M is ready to hire a new coach, it's always the same thing "boy, oh, boy, if they get the right coach...look out!"

History just doesn't support that.

In the last 70 years, they've been ranked 26 times. Their best run ever was 1991-1994 under Slocum when they won 10 or more games each season but lost bowl games in 3 of those years (ineligible the other).

They've only finished ranked 6 times since 2000. We've finished ranked 7 times in that time span.

They've won 10 or more games in a season 4x in the last 30 years.

They've had a winning conference record 4x since 2000.

As far as getting the right coach. Bear Bryant was an ok coach there. He went to Alabama and became legendary. Gene Stallings did not do well there. He went to Alabama and became a championship coach and won 80% of his games. Jimbo Fisher was a championship coach before arriving at A&M and immediately became mediocre. Dennis Franchione had Alabama looking good, then he departed for A&M and was mediocre there.

I just don't see any historical support for them being a coach away from becoming a juggernaut. I don't know why it has never happened, but it hasn't. They have all the money you could want. All the resources. All the talent. It's just never clicked.

This is a great question, and I think you only have to look up the street to Texas to understand that there is something wrong with the school itself.

When you have these "legacy schools" with tons of boosters giving tons of money - there are so many cooks in the kitchen during the hiring process (and while someone is coaching). When Texas fired Mack Brown, they thought they could just plug anyone in and the coach would be successful - not because of the coach, but because they're Texas! And that's what they thought about Brown - they made him, not the other way around. I still don't think Texas understands its fallacy. Mack Brown made Texas what it was (the resources allowed him to do the best he could).

Brown was able to do his job in spite of Texas. He was able to navigate the minefield of billionaire boosters and huge-athletic-department-politics and still win. No coach after him could, even though they had everything at their fingertips. As mentioned in another thread about A&M - you can't just recruit any 5* kid and expect them to fit your system. And similarly, you can't just bring in any championship coach and expect them to thrive in your school's particular kind of crazy (and every school has its own kind of crazy).

And at A&M, the fact that they aren't blinking at a $77M buyout, let's you know how deep their crazy runs.

 

[Big JC]

That’s exactly what makes them a sleeping giant. They have everything they need. Just haven’t put it together. A lot of people say the same about us. When you look at the school size, alumni base, rabid fan base, great facilities, fertile recruiting grounds, Top 20-25 valuable program, etc…no reason for our history. The ingredients are there for a much better product.

Not many people have ever said that about South Carolina. Historically mediocre at best football program, off campus stadium in an industrial area, urban campus in a nothing special city as far as a college town, located in a state with a small population surrounded by traditional football powers, not many big money booster/donors, facilities are no better than any of our rivals, not exactly a "sleeping giant".

 

[18IsTheMan]

Not many people have ever said that about South Carolina. Historically mediocre at best football program, off campus stadium in an industrial area, urban campus in a nothing special city as far as a college town, located in a state with a small population surrounded by traditional football powers, not many big money booster/donors, facilities are no better than any of our rivals, not exactly a "sleeping giant".

Other than a loyal fan base, we don't have many advantages. Or any advantages.

 

[Big JC]

Other than a loyal fan base, we don't have many advantages. Or any advantages.

Sometimes I think the "loyal fan base" thing is a little oversold too. I've seen plenty of empty seats at WB over the years.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Sometimes I think the "loyal fan base" thing is a little oversold too. I've seen plenty of empty seats at WB over the years.

It's the thing for which we are most proud.........

 

[Deleted11512]

Our fans also dismiss Dabo's success as a product of having 2 great QBs, so I'm just applying that rationale here.

Don't our fans routinely argue that success in the ACC is exaggerated given the level of competition? If that is the case, then his record at A&M is a more accurate indicator, right?

They do, but that's just good old fashioned clem hatred. It's not rooted in reality. Got to credit those guys for getting those QBs.

I agree with you. Jimbo would kill it at WVU. Jimbo wasn't able to get a top notch QB at A&M. Ultimately that was his downfall.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

You could say that about a lot of coaches. But he was at FSU for 8 years, won 10+ 6 of them, won the ACC 3 times, won the NC, won a BCS bowl, ws 5-2 in bowl games. It's not like he had 2 good years and that's it. Prior to him taking over they had 1 10 win season in the previous 9 years. No idea why it didn't translate other than just getting chewed up by the SEC. He never had a good QB either, which is a necessity in this league. I also remember early on him dicking around with playcalling...he was calling plays, then decided to let his OC call plays. I think that went on a few times, similar to how Malzahn finished at AU.

By the time he left FSU, they were 5-6 and his OL was on a very sharp downward trajectory. He left FSU with a mess on it's hands. Having Jameis Winston is what helped his resume tremendously, without him he was slightly better than average.
Knowing several FSU alumni, I can tell you they weren't exactly upset when he left for TAMU.

 

[18IsTheMan]

By the time he left FSU, they were 5-6 and his OL was on a very sharp downward trajectory. He left FSU with a mess on it's hands. Having Jameis Winston is what helped his resume tremendously, without him he way slightly better than average.
Knowing several FSU alumni, I can tell you they weren't exactly upset when he left for TAMU.

I believe the general sentiment is that he struck while the iron was hot and got out of FSU before the bottom fell out of his program.

 

[Deleted11512]

By the time he left FSU, they were 5-6 and his OL was on a very sharp downward trajectory. He left FSU with a mess on it's hands. Having Jameis Winston is what helped his resume tremendously, without him he was slightly better than average.
Knowing several FSU alumni, I can tell you they weren't exactly upset when he left for TAMU.

Yes, fans always have a level headed approach to their team.

Winston was there 2 years. The year before Winston started they went 12-2 and won the Orange Bowl. Again, without Winston he had 4 10+ win seasons...something they hadn't done in a while. His last year was a mess. Who knows what would have happened had he stayed. But acting like all he did was play Winston is wrong.

 

[Big JC]

Yes, fans always have a level headed approach to their team.

Winston was there 2 years. The year before Winston started they went 12-2 and won the Orange Bowl. Again, without Winston he had 4 10+ win seasons...something they hadn't done in a while. His last year was a mess. Who knows what would have happened had he stayed. But acting like all he did was play Winston is wrong.

Fisher came in on the heels of Bowden and benefitted from having Bowden talent and a weak as water ACC to play in.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Money

^^^ THIS

 

[Deleted11512]

Fisher came in on the heels of Bowden and benefitted from having Bowden talent and a weak as water ACC to play in.

Bowden had 1 10 win season in his last 10 years. No question, Jimbo's 8 years elevated the program from where it was the previous 10. It's not even debatable.

 

[KingWard]

Why is A&M perceived to be a coach away from great success?​

What difference does it make to anyone not an Aggie? Why should anyone not an Aggie care?

 

[18IsTheMan]

What difference does it make to anyone not an Aggie? Why should anyone not an Aggie care?

Well, you're arguing with me about Jimbo's contract in another thread, so I guess you care about Aggie stuff a little bit haha

 

[KingWard]

Well, you're arguing with me about Jimbo's contract in another thread, so I guess you care about Aggie stuff a little bit haha

Not in terms of analyzing why they do what they do, which is how you put the case in that thread. It's obvious why they do what they do. There's nothing to argue about.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

I just don't see any support for them being anything other than what they have historically been.

Same goes for us. Sadly.

Oh yeah, when’s the last time USC forked over 75 million to get rid of a coach. If that doesn’t say we are serious about winning, I don’t know what does.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

What else should be their goal?

I mean really. I laugh at people who don’t think a NC is the goal every year. If you coach is not putting you in that position it’s time to move on. Otherwise why are you playing the game.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

Our fans also dismiss Dabo's success as a product of having 2 great QBs, so I'm just applying that rationale here.

Don't our fans routinely argue that success in the ACC is exaggerated given the level of competition? If that is the case, then his record at A&M is a more accurate indicator, right?

That can be said for any coach not named Saban. The fans that discredit Dabo’s ability are just doing so out of hatred. That’s cool but it doesn’t make it correct. He got both those qb’s to Clemson. Credit is deserved.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

Duplicate

 

[Deleted11512]

Bowden was forced out because he wasn’t winning. You’re not giving credit where it is due.

Feels strange that I'm agreeing with you so much....lets talk about Clemson leaving the ACC.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

1)Yes, fans always have a level headed approach to their team.

Winston was there 2 years. The year before Winston started they went 12-2 and won the Orange Bowl. Again, without Winston he had 4 10+ win seasons...something they hadn't done in a while. His last year was a mess. Who knows what would have happened had he stayed. 2)But acting like all he did was play Winston is wrong.

1)These were not mere fans, prominent Alumni, and not just the average booster, one could say they made significant donations.

2) No one is acting like all he did was play Winston, but to state again, during the Winston is when FSU was at its peak during the Fisher regime, his last year was a mess and it was a severe downward trajectory, particularly the play of the OL.

 

[Cocky Hobbit]

I came here from Texas and my Dad was an Aggie. In our family we refer to A&M as “the cult”. Their traditions are borderline psychotic and some are downright creepy.

The school and the fans have a grossly over-inflated sense of their own importance.

They are turning into the new Auburn — showing no patience and wasting money like it’s water.

 

[athenscock3]

They haven’t and never will learn that throwing money at a coach and program does not guarantee success . If money solved the problem, they wouldn’t continue to have a problem.

 

[Deleted11512]

1)These were not mere fans, prominent Alumni, and not just the average booster, one could say they made significant donations.

2) No one is acting like all he did was play Winston, but to state again, during the Winston is when FSU was at its peak during the Fisher regime, his last year was a mess and it was a severe downward trajectory, particularly the play of the OL.

Yeah, b/c he won a damn NC with him. That's the peak of the sport. I'm not arguing he didn't leave a mess. But some of ya'll acting like all he did was play Winston is crazy talk. You said he was "slightly above average" without him. Dude had 2 top 10 finishes without him (2 with him). Won the ACC and a BCS bowl without him. Your prominent Alumni were likely butthurt over his last year, which is understandable. But I bet they were fat and happy prior to that.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

Yeah, b/c he won a damn NC with him. That's the peak of the sport. I'm not arguing he didn't leave a mess. But some of ya'll acting like all he did was play Winston is crazy talk. You said he was "slightly above average" without him. Dude had 2 top 10 finishes without him (2 with him). Won the ACC and a BCS bowl without him. Your prominent Alumni were likely butthurt over his last year, which is understandable. But I bet they were fat and happy prior to that.

Ok, I'm just telling you what the Alumni who I know personally, that are well connected with the university, were not unhappy to see him go, and it had a lot more to do with than just a W/L record of the football team.
Don't pretend to know more than what you do just to make a point.

 

[Deleted11512]

Ok, I'm just telling you what the Alumni who I know personally, that are well connected with the university, were not unhappy to see him go, and it had a lot more to do with than just a W/L record of the football team.
Don't pretend to know more than what you do just to make a point.

Were they the same ones that refused to invest in the program? haha. Look, this isn't really the point of the discussion. No doubt he ruffled feathers. He was openly critical of their lack of investment into the football program. That's bound to make some people unhappy. I'm sure there's other things too, like rumors around his divorce.

The point is people trying minimize what he did at FSU for some reason. He sucked at A&M, but was one of the top coaches in the country at FSU.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

Were they the same ones that refused to invest in the program? haha. Look, this isn't really the point of the discussion. No doubt he ruffled feathers. He was openly critical of their lack of investment into the football program. That's bound to make some people unhappy. I'm sure there's other things too, like rumors around his divorce.

The point is people trying minimize what he did at FSU for some reason. He sucked at A&M, but was one of the top coaches in the country at FSU.

Again, you know not what you speak of.

 

[Tusi21!!]

It raises a question in my mind of who would take the job knowing you'll be fired if you don't contend for a national title at a program that hasn't contended for a national title in nearly 100 years?

Obviously, someone will take the job because A&M will make them an offer they can't refuse. Financially it's a no-brainer. Career-wise, it's suicide.

They haven't had a coach go out on good terms since..........? Even their best coach ever, Slocum, was forced to resign.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

Ok, I'm just telling you what the Alumni who I know personally, that are well connected with the university, were not unhappy to see him go, and it had a lot more to do with than just a W/L record of the football team.
Don't pretend to know more than what you do just to make a point.

What the alumnus thought of him has ZERO bearing on his rating or a coach. They could also be butt hurt about him abandoning ship. To say that makes him an average coach is just stupid.