Wonder what Jake Mangum thinks about our situation now?
- Thread starter blacklistedbully
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MSU. Dan Marino's man cave at Old Waverly.
What's the difference?
WE ARE A WOMYN’S BASKETBALL SKOOLWe agree and we've been doing that more often lately so no wonder people are thinking...
Nah.
Women's Goof.
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Makes perfect sense that Goof would be our best sport.
(and never mind the page not found in the embed - just click and see the rankings)
I agree. I’d be good with hiring him as an assistant though. You can’t start your coaching career as a head coach in the SEC. That wouldn’t be fair to him or to us.
Incorrect….still would have finished tied for 9th in hits and tied for 7th in batting average. And on the hits list, he would join Tanner Allen as the only 2 players on the list to be in the Top 10 while only playing 3 years.
Short answer, none would have come close on the hits record.
Foscue is a thought experiment because of only playing 2.25 seasons due to COVID. But he would have needed 231 more hits in only about 100ish more games in a theoretical 4-year career to catch Jake. That’s a pace of 130 hits per 56 game regular season. In other words, no chance. He did have 38 doubles and could have eclipsed Jake with 34 more, so that would be in play.
Rowdey would have needed 141 more hits in the final 40-50 games of 2020 (no chance).
Would have needed 18 doubles over the same stretch for that record. Not likely but at least an outside chance.
Piatt was same story. Nowhere close on hits…..20 doubles away so maybe or maybe not on that one.
I’m not sure why you keep referencing his age as a freshmen like it somehow diminishes his accomplishments. The way kids are held back for sports these days, its pretty common for them to be 20 as freshmen. JT Ginn, Kam James, Kellum Clark and many others also turned 20 as freshmen.
This one is laughable BS. By OPS he was the best player in the lineup in both 2016 and 2018. Rooker was better in 2017 and TA was better in 2019. But he was objectively the best everyday player for 2 years and Top 2-3 all 4 years. And that natty was 2 years after he left there, big guy….not sure why that’s relevant anyway.
I don’t disagree that there’s a bit of a Jake obsession by some folks on here, but you’re trying wayyyyyy too hard to be the contrarian to those people.
Hiring mangum as an assistant with no experience wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world but it wouldn’t be the best thing either.
you don’t hire a guy at msu baseball with zero experience unless you absolutely have to.
Batting leadoff is one of the places to be patient and work a count. However, when you come up with runners in scoring position and you let a fastball go over the middle of the plate, it drives me nuts. Especially when you are a 3-6 place hitter and you need to drive in runs.
Overall the best way to hit, if you have the physical ability to do it, is to be patient and recognize pitches early and concentrate on subzones within the strikezone. Problem is you have to have Ted Williams eagle vision and Barry Bonds cobra-strike quick-twitch muscles. You need to understand your strengths, and weaknesses, as a hitter. You need to put yourself in the best position physically and mentally to be successful. That is different for every human. So when every hitter on a team has the same approach in almost every situation, I have an issue. I would be pissed off to walk with the bases loaded. If we got only one run with my at bat in that situation, I failed. (Of course very late in a game with a tied game or down a run, it would be ok.) If I was a different person, that might be exactly what I should do.
Can we hire you to coach the hitters through the end of the season? You’re making way too much sense here. I see a common thread with our coaching of both pitchers and hitters that we’re trying to force every player to take one approach regardless of their individual strengths and weaknesses. That should not be happening.
that’s exactly my point. Magnum minus year 4 would be a top 10 guys in hits and 7th in average. Also known as just very good player wt state. Not a great one.
you went thru and assumed a lot on those 3 year guys and only looked at those 3. Would be a very easy argument to say any of those guys would have had monster senior seasons had they come back, so it can’t be compared. However the point was some of the best state players had a better 3 year stretch than magnum, and that was the point.
as for the laughable bs of being the best player. Jack Kruger led in ops not Jake in 17. 18 he was 4th on the team in ops behind rooker, and the offensive powers of Cody brown and Ryan Gridley. In 19, yes he lead the team in ops, in 20. He was 6th amongst the regulars or 7th depending how you want to call it. Allen, foscue, Skelton, mac, Hatcher all were better.. and so was Hancock in limit action.
so much for laughable bs, he was the best offensive player 1 season out of 4 going by ops. And that year imo Ethan small was our best player.
the natty is revalent because again the point was he’s given way too much credit for the success. Again I stand by he wasn’t even the best player on the team in any of those seasons and our team won the natty after he was gone, so we peaked after Jake not with him.
I love some Mangum too but Dan Van Cleve, Mark Gillespie, and Jody Hurst were pretty dang solid as well in center field. Can’t remember if Mike Kelley played center but if so he’s in there too
Tbh he probably doesn’t care that much. We’ll make a good hire in the offseason and MSU baseball will be fine.
Gman played Right. Kelley was the best Centerfielder I saw in maroon. Brad Winkler was an excellent outfielder and played center his senior year.
Thanks for the help Bruce! Help refresh my memory. Dave Klipstein played left, Gillespie right, who was in center then? I’m getting old and trying to get my years right….
Seemed like you said he would not be in the Top 10 in any category if he only played 3 years. The fact that he would still be in the Top 10 in hits and be one of only two 3-year guys in that category makes him exceptional. That’s an elite player in hitting when talking about a school with as much history as MSU.
More like an impossible argument. You are talking about folks needing a 130-140 hit season to pass him, which goes way beyond the scope of “monster season”. For comparison, the SEC single season hits record is 120 by Drew Meyer of USC, and it has stood for over 2 decades with nobody coming within 5 hits of it since that time.
I’ll save you the research and let you know that TA is the only one who could have possibly broken it if he came back for his senior year, and he would have needed 102 hits to do it while also getting a 6-hit bonus from that 2020 season.
Here’s another nugget for you….Palmeiro would have needed 115 hits in his “4th year” to set a record that would not be broken by Jake.
In the past 20-25 years, I can only think of Tanner Allen who had a better stretch of 3 ~ 4 years than Mangum. Some better individual years from some guys, sure. Rooker in ‘17, Renfroe in ‘13, etc. But you have to go all the way back to the Travis Chapman and Richard Lee days to find anyone close to having the full body of work in a whole career as those two guys. And that was a much more hitter friendly era with the bats.
I stand corrected on Kruger. His .985 did barely trump Mangum’s .968 (and 17 hailstate.com for not publishing OPS stats and making me do that math in my head). I would still argue that Jake was better over the latter 80% of that season, since he had an early season injury and some short freshmen struggles before playing his way into the lineup.
FYI….the coaching staff gives out an “Offensive MVP” award after each season, and Jake won the award in 2016, 2018, and 2019. He’s the only 3-year winner of that award since it started in 1948….whatever that is worth to you.
Nah, it was still BS. You said he was never the best player on any team, and now you are backpeddling and trying to compare him to a damn pitcher. I can’t even with that. Second time in this discussion you’ve brought up pitchers.
On this I agree….Jake deserves all the credit in the world for his role in the success of the 2016-2019 teams. Nothing beyond that….wasn’t his natty. Cheers.
All before my time, but I’ll take your word for it. Gillaspie and Kelley are both still quite prominent in the MSU record books to this day.
I’m obviously dealing with a Jake magnum family member or something so I’ll let it die. As I said, good player not great, accumulated his stats much like Pete rose did. When you have 100 more at bats than any other player in msu history you’re going to accumulate some counting stats. Even with those at bats he’s not in the top 10 but in 3 categories.
you told me I can’t make freshman excuses neither can you. Magnum was the 2nd, 4th, 1st, and 7th best offensive player using ops which is widely known as the best way to evaluate a hitter. The year he was 1, we had Ethan small would put together one of the finest seasons on the mound who I would consider the team mvp that year. So know I’m not back peddling. He was never the best player on any team he played on.
again I’ll state, good player, not great. Played hard, played right. But people are blinded by the rah rah and recent memory. Like others here have said, there are a few others from days past that imo are just as good if not better. And if I had to put together a top 10 list of msu players, he isn’t on it.
I'll go one step farther: Here is a 4 year stretch of a guy from 2007-2010, all drawf magnum's numbers.
Freshman- 306 avg, 12 doubles, 8 homers, 37 rbi, 853 OPS
Sophomore- 348, 7 doubles, 11 homers, 38 rbi, 1061 OPS
Junuor- 301, 15 doubles, 19 homers, 63 rbi, 1088 OPS
Senior- 379, 18 doubles, 16 homers, 68 rbi, 1159 OPS
4 year stretch- 333 hitter, 52 doubles, 54 homers, 206 rbi, OPS of 1049. I'd take that guy over mangum every day of the week.
But no one talks about him and you probably dont even know who i'm referring too, because there wasnt TV, and he wasnt part of good teams, and he wasnt the biggest rah rah guy in the yard.
State's history is littered with people like this.
Freshman- 306 avg, 12 doubles, 8 homers, 37 rbi, 853 OPS
Sophomore- 348, 7 doubles, 11 homers, 38 rbi, 1061 OPS
Junuor- 301, 15 doubles, 19 homers, 63 rbi, 1088 OPS
Senior- 379, 18 doubles, 16 homers, 68 rbi, 1159 OPS
4 year stretch- 333 hitter, 52 doubles, 54 homers, 206 rbi, OPS of 1049. I'd take that guy over mangum every day of the week.
But no one talks about him and you probably dont even know who i'm referring too, because there wasnt TV, and he wasnt part of good teams, and he wasnt the biggest rah rah guy in the yard.
State's history is littered with people like this.
In terms of 3 year stretches: here's some 3 year stretch averages for you:
Player A: 969 OPS, 7 HR, 59 RBI, 20 Doubles, 4 steals
Player B: 888 OPS, 8 HR, 44 RBI, 17 doubles, 10 steals
Player C: 922 OPS, 1 HR, 33 RBI, 20 Doubles, 16 steals-- i'll save you the trouble and let you know this one is Mangum.
Player D: 987 OPS, 12 HR, 50 RBI, 16 doubles, 7 steals
Player E: 1081 OPS, 15 HR, 55 RBI, 15 doublers, 2 steals
I mean these are 3 year stretches: minus player E, the others only played 3 seasons, and player E is the player in the post above.
Mangum was consistent for 4 seasons. For the most part. He got his base hits. His average was high. But there were others like the players shown above that over a 3 year span actually out performed or were very much on par with him over the course of their careers. Magnum of course played 4, which is again why he has counting number stats over these players. Throw in the fact he's the career at-bat leader by nearly 100 and you can see again why the counting numbers add up.
However its very clear and cannot be argued really, that at least 3 of the other 4 guys mentioned were more productive offensive players in their careers, The other guy on the list is a similar type player to mangum who likely would have passed him had he opted to stay 4 years as well.
Player A: 969 OPS, 7 HR, 59 RBI, 20 Doubles, 4 steals
Player B: 888 OPS, 8 HR, 44 RBI, 17 doubles, 10 steals
Player C: 922 OPS, 1 HR, 33 RBI, 20 Doubles, 16 steals-- i'll save you the trouble and let you know this one is Mangum.
Player D: 987 OPS, 12 HR, 50 RBI, 16 doubles, 7 steals
Player E: 1081 OPS, 15 HR, 55 RBI, 15 doublers, 2 steals
I mean these are 3 year stretches: minus player E, the others only played 3 seasons, and player E is the player in the post above.
Mangum was consistent for 4 seasons. For the most part. He got his base hits. His average was high. But there were others like the players shown above that over a 3 year span actually out performed or were very much on par with him over the course of their careers. Magnum of course played 4, which is again why he has counting number stats over these players. Throw in the fact he's the career at-bat leader by nearly 100 and you can see again why the counting numbers add up.
However its very clear and cannot be argued really, that at least 3 of the other 4 guys mentioned were more productive offensive players in their careers, The other guy on the list is a similar type player to mangum who likely would have passed him had he opted to stay 4 years as well.
Yes agree. Winkler was a damn good ball player. And tommy raffo would have to be on anyones top 10 list as well. 366 average, 1100 OPS. Top 5 on the careeer list in Avg, ob%, slug%, total bases, and rbi's. Top 10 in hits doubles and homers.
I know who Connor Powers is….greatly enjoyed watching him drop bombs on Clemson in the chairbacks in 2007. And yes, I tried my damnedest to block those 2008-2010 years out of my mind, so I didn’t give him the credit he deserved.
So you have him and TA who had better careers than Mangum. Anyone else from the past 20-25 years? If not, would you not consider someone who had a Top 3 MSU career over a period of at least 20 years to be a little bit better than “good not great”?
And I don’t really care about the rah rah stuff, FWIW. I care about production.
If you care about production. Rooker produced more in his 3 year stretch than mangum did over any 3 year stretch of his career. He's player D on that list. Even sitting behind guys as a freshman.
Depends what you call production or what your definition of production is. Mangum again was very consistent and i'm not knocking the guy. In terms of sheer production, OPS, that type of things... even guys like Brad Corley produced just as much over a 3 year period than mangum ever did over a 3 year period.
There are more than a few others that had they stayed a 4th years. Jordan, Foscue, come to mind immediately, Foscue would have no doubt had a better 3 year stretch than Mangum did, Jordan's would have likely been very close.
Mangum got base hits and doubles. He was a free swinger. He barely walked. He didnt hit homers. He was good at what he did.
Also keep in mind I said top 10 players in MSU history. If people like Connor Powers outproduced Mangum I have a hard time calling him great. I sat in the outfield and watched the late 80s early 90s teams. And you keep knocking pitchers. Last I checked pitchers are part of a team.
In terms of position players: Palmerio, Clark, Young, Lee, Raffo, Chapman-- all hands down had better careers offensively. Throw in Powers who had better numbers. Allen and Rooker who produced more. And your not even getting into the guys Van Cleave, Gillsepse, Jody Hurst and a few others
And then you dont even want to talk pitchers?
Depends what you call production or what your definition of production is. Mangum again was very consistent and i'm not knocking the guy. In terms of sheer production, OPS, that type of things... even guys like Brad Corley produced just as much over a 3 year period than mangum ever did over a 3 year period.
There are more than a few others that had they stayed a 4th years. Jordan, Foscue, come to mind immediately, Foscue would have no doubt had a better 3 year stretch than Mangum did, Jordan's would have likely been very close.
Mangum got base hits and doubles. He was a free swinger. He barely walked. He didnt hit homers. He was good at what he did.
Also keep in mind I said top 10 players in MSU history. If people like Connor Powers outproduced Mangum I have a hard time calling him great. I sat in the outfield and watched the late 80s early 90s teams. And you keep knocking pitchers. Last I checked pitchers are part of a team.
In terms of position players: Palmerio, Clark, Young, Lee, Raffo, Chapman-- all hands down had better careers offensively. Throw in Powers who had better numbers. Allen and Rooker who produced more. And your not even getting into the guys Van Cleave, Gillsepse, Jody Hurst and a few others
And then you dont even want to talk pitchers?
Boy it sucks getting old. Brad Winkler had to be in the outfield alot during those days. He must have played left field in many games. Klip played center. Tony Gage played left also when not DH.
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First off I’m not knocking pitchers. I only said you can’t compare pitchers to position players as far as who’s better. Its like asking who’s better between Dak Prescott and Fletcher Cox. Likewise, nobody would ever debate who was better between Jake Mangum and Ethan Small.
It’s clear you’ve got a laundry list of 1B / DH type mashers that put up better OPS numbers over some period. That’s fine. Let me ask you this….how did Jake compare with other lead-off guys, other centerfielders, etc? Other guys who filled the same role as he did?
Consider this list, how were his numbers against them?
Jacob Robson
Adam Frazier (another great player)
CT Bradford
Jeffrey Rea
Rowdey Jordan
Joseph Hunter
Steve Gendron
Ryan Gridley
Etc.
I would argue Mangum filled that role in the lineup better than any of them.
Offensively, Rowdey is probably the only one who comes close and his career OPS is almost where Jake’s was but not quite. And defensively, he was nowhere close to Mangum in CF due largely to arm strength issues he had from reconstructive shoulder surgery before he ever got to MSU. As far as CF’s go, yourself and others have had to go back to guys from the early to mid-80’s to name one that is comparable in terms of overall offensive / defensive contribution.
Look, its a certainty that in 100+ years of MSU baseball that he’s not a top 10 position player. We’ve had a lot of great ones. But if you have to go back almost 40 years to find a possibly better overall player at his position, and have to go back 15-20 years to find a just a small handful of players at any position or DH with better offensive career, I’m calling that guy a great / elite player in his time. You can make your choice not to do the same, it seems to be semantics at this point.
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agreed. Semantics.
The converstation started with me saying mangum isnt a top 10 player in MSU history, to which you disagreed b/c I had pitchers on my list. You then changed it to top 10 position players, which i again disagree with but thats fine.
You then said my claim that he wasnt the best player on any of his teams was total laughable BS-- which again isnt true.. he was at the very best.. the best player on only one of those teams but i wouldnt even call it that.
You then said he's had a better 3-4 year stretch than anyone in the last 25 years-- which again isnt true-- both by pure stats and production
You then said he would be the best CF in MSU history-- a statement that others here on the board disagreed with and I do as well
Now we have narrowed the arguement down to best lead off hitter and best CF in the last 15-20 years.
Not trying to be right or wrong here-- but youve gone a long way around the block here to try to dis prove my point which was simply this: He's not a top 10 player in MSU history and quiet frankly when you add pitchers into the mix, probably isnt in the top 20. And he gets too much credit around here because of his rah rah attitude and tv exposure and leadership skills (that cant be measured or known really) and things like that. He was very much a fan favorite, but that doesnt make him a great player.
The converstation started with me saying mangum isnt a top 10 player in MSU history, to which you disagreed b/c I had pitchers on my list. You then changed it to top 10 position players, which i again disagree with but thats fine.
You then said my claim that he wasnt the best player on any of his teams was total laughable BS-- which again isnt true.. he was at the very best.. the best player on only one of those teams but i wouldnt even call it that.
You then said he's had a better 3-4 year stretch than anyone in the last 25 years-- which again isnt true-- both by pure stats and production
You then said he would be the best CF in MSU history-- a statement that others here on the board disagreed with and I do as well
Now we have narrowed the arguement down to best lead off hitter and best CF in the last 15-20 years.
Not trying to be right or wrong here-- but youve gone a long way around the block here to try to dis prove my point which was simply this: He's not a top 10 player in MSU history and quiet frankly when you add pitchers into the mix, probably isnt in the top 20. And he gets too much credit around here because of his rah rah attitude and tv exposure and leadership skills (that cant be measured or known really) and things like that. He was very much a fan favorite, but that doesnt make him a great player.
To answer your question. Ive said many times in this thread and in my posts. Jake was very good at what he did. Which was get hits and wear out the gaps. He was a very good defense centerfielder as well.
Hes the pete rose of MSU baseball. There are many other players on those top 10 career lists who were good but not great players. Matthew Manisaclo, Rae, Gendron, Freeman, Big Jon Knott, Hildreth... who all are on those top 10 lists becuase they stayed 4 years and were good... not great
Hes the pete rose of MSU baseball. There are many other players on those top 10 career lists who were good but not great players. Matthew Manisaclo, Rae, Gendron, Freeman, Big Jon Knott, Hildreth... who all are on those top 10 lists becuase they stayed 4 years and were good... not great
Speaking of Mangum and patient approaches of leadoff hitters - that was the one thing that drove me nuts about him. For all the slash singles he'd hit, he'd chop a grounder to the pitcher on the first pitch he saw and just absolutely refused to ever take a walk. I always hated him in the leadoff spot
We have a guy in this thread arguing Jake Mangum was not a “great” player.
Best span of 4 year success in school history. 4 Supers, 2 CWS. SEC Title. And a mainstay catalyst of all 4 teams isn’t considered “great”. Especially when he has plenty of stats to back it up.
Also, Jeff Brantley was never the best player on his team. So I guess that means he isn’t great. Derek Jeter, arguably, was never the best player on his team. Not a “great” baseball player for HuntDawg.
I’ve truly seen it all.
Best span of 4 year success in school history. 4 Supers, 2 CWS. SEC Title. And a mainstay catalyst of all 4 teams isn’t considered “great”. Especially when he has plenty of stats to back it up.
Also, Jeff Brantley was never the best player on his team. So I guess that means he isn’t great. Derek Jeter, arguably, was never the best player on his team. Not a “great” baseball player for HuntDawg.
I’ve truly seen it all.
With the bat Connor was using, Jake woulda hit .500 in 2016 and .400 in all other years. Love Connor, special hitter, good friend. Good player. No defensive position. Couldn’t run. Couldn’t throw.
2007-2010, we faced 2, maybe 3 guys in an entire weekend throwing 90+. The last 6, 7 years, we face 7-8 guys a weekend throwing 90+.
The 2008 season, Ryan Duffy’s bat got so hot, the whole team started using it the last 6-7 weekends of the year. It was funny watching everyone in the lineup using the same bat. Diamond girls wouldn’t even go retrieve it. We lost a game against Alabama like 22-18 in which we hit 7 HRs with 6 different guys, with the same bat.
Don’t even get me started on the drop 5 bats every player pre-2000 got to use.
His value had nothing to do with numbers as far as I'm concerned. I think most people would agree with that. He was more the heart of the team and one of the best we've had. Arguing over who's the best player Mississippi State history based only on numbers is kind of silly to me but everyone's got their own favorite thing.
Hitting the wall will make people do and argue about some crazy things though, so I understand. I wish this was all be over with soon afraid it's gonna drag on. The worst part is we're gonna have to go through bitching posts every day till the end of the season and probably most of the summer.
Nah bruv. He was a GREAT player. An all time SEC player. Fact is he did play 4 years. And those stats belong to him. No matter how you are trying to take away from it.He's also advanced farther than most of the ones you name as far as MILB goes. I don't even understand why you would want to. Dude is a legend because of what? If it wasnt his play? He was and is a winner. Ask Um how they feel about him.
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I’m sorry Jake slept with your girlfriend. Good baseball players usually shoot for 5s or better. Imagine if he was great.
I'm surprised at that statement, our group in the LFL raises heLL all the time about them hitting first pitches......
To be clear, I’m saying the following about Mangum:
- Best overall CF (offense plus defense) AND best leadoff guy since at least 1989 which is as far back as memory goes.
- He still might have been better than Kelly / Gillaspie / Van Cleve / Hurst also, but maybe not, the eras were so different that I’m just going to leave that argument to others who saw all of the above play. I certainly couldn’t tell you the first thing about any of them defensively. Also stated before, but I think you have to be real careful when comparing hitting stats of any guys in the post-BBCOR era to even guys in the pre-2010 period, and even more so when comparing to the guys of the 80’s when the bats were almost completely unregulated.
- At a bare minimum, a Top 5 or 6 offensive career of any player at any position from 2001 to now, taking into consideration the entire career’s body of work and the bat changes over time and its the effects to the game over that period. Arguably top 3 considering all of the above.
- All of the above = GREAT player.
- DGAF about the rah rah / emotional stuff. Actually, I do….I’m still mad at him for that time he punched the concrete wall in the dugout.
* I also never said he was the best MSU centerfielder ever. I said if you’re building an all-time team, you’ll need a centerfielder….and if there is a better candidate than Mangum I’d be interested to know who it was. And I genuinely was interested and am appreciative of the names and info that you and others provided. Its of course possible that he is the best CF, and yet still not a Top 10 position player. Again, I’ll defer to others on this one.
In all seriousness, you raised lots of valid points and brought awareness about other players I didn’t consider. Thanks for that. Even though it may just be semantics, I’d urge you to maybe reconsider your definition of “great player”. You seem to think if they don’t make a Top 10 or 20 list of all time that they don’t meet that “great player” criteria. Seems like an unreasonably high standard. I think Jake Mangum’s a great player. I also think Tanner Allen, Rowdey Jordan, Adam Frazier, Connor Powers, Ed Easley, Travis Chapman, Richard Lee, and many others were also great players. A few of those are better statistically than Mangum. A few are not.
With that, I’m signing off on this one.
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Enjoyed the banter for sure. I think we both see things somewhat similar, just different definitions on what certian things are in each others eyes.
Im certainly not saying Jake wasnt a ballplayer anyone would want on their teams. Being called the Pete Rose of MSU baseball isnt a bad thing. And considering the way the season went last year and so far this year i wish we had 9 mangums we could play.
As they /we SHOULD. As should Dak's when he is shat on. And several more. State fans are to 17ing grumpy to even acknowledge their greats. And Jake would be one of the ones on a statue. Sorry if that's hard to accept ( but I don't know why it would be ).
Hot sure if Germans, but Jake's intangibles and leadership qualities were off-the-charts. He made everybody on the team better, IMO. Made everybody on the team grind a little harder. He also helped and continues to help recruiting as an outstanding ambassador for MSU. Seems like a fairly intelligent guy who was raised very well. Decent human being. Those things are worth a ton to me.
Interesting thought on Chris Maloney....I heard him on the radio during one of our games earlier this year....he has an enormous track record in the minors ....never heard his name mentioned either....only down side i could think of is that he has never recruited before that I know of....His brother is married into my wife's family.....that family are all brilliant people too....would be interesting to see if his name came up next coaching search
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