2022 NCAA Tournament, Session 2 Thread

[Tom McAndrew]

Man, we probably got way with one there. Aiello looked like he had NF to me.

Yeah we definitely got the better of some calls there, but that's wrestling. We've been on the other side a few times too.

Christian Pyles went crazy about this on Twitter.

Here's video that he posted:




A couple of things:
- the ref was far from the action, but no matter how many matches you ref, you can never predict in advance where every move is headed. You do the best you can
- taking off my blue-white glasses, and looking at this as a ref, even if I happened to be in perfect position when Dean got titled, I've only got 1 swipe where Dean is in criteria. Dean gets the shoulders/back above 45 degrees between 1 and 2 sec, so I would not have given a 2nd swipe. Hence, no NF would be awarded

Apparently, Jordan Burroughs was tweeting about this match as well:




to answer Jordan's questions, in reverse order:

- you can swipe/count as you are getting into position IF you can see the wrestler is in criteria. You can award back points even if you never swiped
- the first question, at least for this match, is a straw man, as Dean did not "spend two or more seconds in near fall position" (called criteria by refs and in the rule book)

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[henrymale]

Really! Don’t they have basketball forums.

sure do....I update wrestling there!

 

[ptomaselli]

We were talking hoops in a meeting today. One guy said he had seen LeBron play in high school. One other guy had seen Kobe play in high school. The only good high school player I saw was Sam Bowie back in maybe 1979 or 1980 and he played at Kentucky. Nobody had heard of him......God I felt old.

I’ve heard of Sam…from Lebanon, right? Then again, I am old.

 

[Lionlaw]

that's just full of misinformation.

First, the refs don't make a "ton of money" for working Nationals. They get paid a decent amount, but it's 3 days work, very long days. It may actually be 4 days -- they may have to be there on Wed and go through some meetings -- I haven't checked on that in several years. And they get done so late on Saturday that they're spending the night in the host area, so it's at least 4 nights and possibly 5, and at least 3 days and possibly 4. That's a lot of interruption to one's normal job, normal life, etc., and the amount they get paid is probably less than most of them make per week in their normal job. No refs are getting rich from reffing.

The refs do allow the wrestlers to decide who wins Within The Rules.

Lastly, they aren't there just to make the obvious calls. Pretty much any college ref, and most HS college refs, could make the obvious calls. These are the elite refs and they are there to make the obvious calls, as well as to make the correct calls in unusual situations that are rarely seen, as well as to enforce ALL of the rules.

Misinformation, along with MUST and BIG TIME, are his schtick.

 

[Karl_Havok]

that's just full of misinformation.

First, the refs don't make a "ton of money" for working Nationals. They get paid a decent amount, but it's 3 days work, very long days. It may actually be 4 days -- they may have to be there on Wed and go through some meetings -- I haven't checked on that in several years. And they get done so late on Saturday that they're spending the night in the host area, so it's at least 4 nights and possibly 5, and at least 3 days and possibly 4. That's a lot of interruption to one's normal job, normal life, etc., and the amount they get paid is probably less than most of them make per week in their normal job. No refs are getting rich from reffing.

The refs do allow the wrestlers to decide who wins Within The Rules.

Lastly, they aren't there just to make the obvious calls. Pretty much any college ref, and most HS college refs, could make the obvious calls. These are the elite refs and they are there to make the obvious calls, as well as to make the correct calls in unusual situations that are rarely seen, as well as to enforce ALL of the rules.

Everyone always thinks their team or guys are getting screwed by the refs on purpose and the refs are purposely handing matches or games to the other team. It's part of being a fan but it's just nonsense. If you've eve reffed anything (such as you have) you know that's just silly. I was at my social club the other day and this guy just kept going on and on about how the Steelers stole two Super Bowls and only had four Super Bowls (from the 70's). Since I am a Steelers fan he was adamant that I admit the Steelers only had four SBs. I mean, because Joe at some social club didn't like a few calls the Steelers are cheaters who stole the wins? I guess every single game ever played was stolen then.

Good calls happen. Bad calls happen. Close calls happen. It's part sports.

 

[Bernard Shakey]

Christian Pyles went crazy about this on Twitter.

Here's video that he posted:




A couple of things:
- the ref was far from the action, but no matter how many matches you ref, you can never predict in advance where every move is headed. You do the best you can
- taking off my blue-white glasses, and looking at this as a ref, even if I happened to be in perfect position when Dean got titled, I've only got 1 swipe where Dean is in criteria. Dean gets the shoulders/back above 45 degrees between 1 and 2 sec, so I would not have given a 2nd swipe. Hence, no NF would be awarded

Apparently, Jordan Burroughs was tweeting about this match as well:




to answer Jordan's questions, in reverse order:

- you can swipe/count as you are getting into position IF you can see the wrestler is in criteria. You can award back points even if you never swiped
- the first question, at least for this match, is a straw man, as Dean did not "spend two or more seconds in near fall position" (called criteria by refs and in the rule book)

Always appreciate your insight Tom! Makes me feel even better about the W, but man that match had my blood pressure up. That NF was the closest call, but the trip at the edge in the 1st and that sketchy scramble where Dean ended up with the TD had me on the edge of my seat. We're going to be in some tough matches this weekend, always promising when we see our guys pull out the close ones.

 

[truth-and-reason]

Always appreciate your insight Tom! Makes me feel even better about the W, but man that match had my blood pressure up. That NF was the closest call, but the trip at the edge in the 1st and that sketchy scramble where Dean ended up with the TD had me on the edge of my seat. We're going to be in some tough matches this weekend, always promising when we see our guys pull out the close ones.

My 2 cents. im at the tourney. Max’s bout was on the mat right in front of me and I’m 5 rows back. What you can’t see in this clip is the assistant ref, who was in exactly the right position - 180 degrees from lead official. The replay camera is on the table which is 90 degrees and between both officials. Real-time and on replay, I have two swipes. I could see the replay monitor on table, Bad angle to determine anything. The assistant official actually immedi stepped in and questioned the non call. He should have been counting.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[dicemen99]

It's nice that people are so frustrated that we are going to win another one and keep pushing the legacy of other programs into the rearview that they are going batsh*t crazy over a questionable call that likely does not alter the match outcome.

I mean is anyone betting on Aiello to win that match if it goes to OT - as it likely does if he gets the 2NF? Not likely if you've watched him wrestle.

 

[Got GSPs]

One of the greatest sports trivia ever. Who was picked before Michael Jordan? Sam Bouie

 

[Tom McAndrew]