A very wise man said on more than one occasion

LB99

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He might have rethought that had he witnessed yesterday's display.
Did he after the 34-8 drubbing AT HOME in ‘97? How about the Michigan State game where they gave up 200 yards rushing to two different Spartan RBs in the same game? How about after the Toledo fiasco? Or the 6-4 barnburner loss to Iowa? Some people really do have selective memories.
 

GrimReaper

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Did he after the 34-8 drubbing AT HOME in ‘97? How about the Michigan State game where they gave up 200 yards rushing to two different Spartan RBs in the same game? How about after the Toledo fiasco? Or the 6-4 barnburner loss to Iowa? Some people really do have selective memories.
It's rhetorical, scout. And Joe this, and Joe that is irrelevant to a discussion of the present day. He's dead and gone and not making $8mil.
 

LB99

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It's rhetorical, scout. And Joe this, and Joe that is irrelevant to a discussion of the present day. He's dead and gone and not making $8mil.
If it’s so irrelevant to the present day then why won’t a subset of the fan base and alumni let it go? Why does every loss conjure up comparisons? Look around the other conversations on this board. With how some people perceive things, Joe had us winning B1G titles every year and contending for Nattys every year. But thanks for your earth shattering insight Scout.
 

Midnighter

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If it’s so irrelevant to the present day then why won’t a subset of the fan base and alumni let it go? Why does every loss conjure up comparisons? Look around the other conversations on this board. With how some people perceive things, Joe had us winning B1G titles every year and contending for Nattys every year. But thanks for your earth shattering insight Scout.

That isn’t true - but, Joe did as well or better over his final 10 years or so with lower ranked recruiting classes and a much lower salary. I thought Joe held Penn State hostage for his final decade and was scheming to install Jay on the future staff. Franklin is *really* holding the program hostage with his contract though. At this point you have to root for him to succeed since he’s *obviously* not going anywhere….
 

LB99

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That isn’t true - but, Joe did as well or better over his final 10 years or so with lower ranked recruiting classes and a much lower salary. I thought Joe held Penn State hostage for his final decade and was scheming to install Jay on the future staff. Franklin is *really* holding the program hostage with his contract though. At this point you have to root for him to succeed since he’s *obviously* not going anywhere….
We are actually probably more in agreement with each other than our original posts indicated. Joe’s last 11 years though were 2 really good years, a handful of mediocre years, and a few of the worst years in program history.
 

FTLPSU

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Love this Joe comparison everyone does….his body of work allows for the losses you outlined. Not even close…I was at the MSU beat down (LA was on Special teams) and it sucked really did. You can’t compare the two….
 

NittanyBuff

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I just don't understand the inability to truly be able to run the ball and stop the run for yrs now. JF and crew have brought in a slew of athletes that can get to the passer, but why can't we get some bigs that can control the los?
 

MacNit

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Did he after the 34-8 drubbing AT HOME in ‘97? How about the Michigan State game where they gave up 200 yards rushing to two different Spartan RBs in the same game? How about after the Toledo fiasco? Or the 6-4 barnburner loss to Iowa? Some people really do have selective memories.
Joe had dozens of big game victories - including those on the road to counter those very rare exceptions.

The issue is that these kind non-compeete beat downs happen too frequently with Franklin. And his signature wins are too few and far between. Joe had as many in one year than Franklin has had in his entire career.

So yes, selective memory indeed. Apples to oranges. CJF is a middle of road current coach. Joe is an all-time, all timer!
 

MacNit

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If it’s so irrelevant to the present day then why won’t a subset of the fan base and alumni let it go? Why does every loss conjure up comparisons? Look around the other conversations on this board. With how some people perceive things, Joe had us winning B1G titles every year and contending for Nattys every year. But thanks for your earth shattering insight Scout.
About every 4 years we competed/played for National Championships.
 

MacNit

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I just don't understand the inability to truly be able to run the ball and stop the run for yrs now. JF and crew have brought in a slew of athletes that can get to the passer, but why can't we get some bigs that can control the los?
Recruiting is lacking…simple as that.
 

LB99

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About every 4 years we competed/played for National Championships.
This is a different time and a different game. Coaches aren’t afforded the luxury to build a team for a few years. It’s win now or the kids transfer and you are fired. Kids who are talented but freshman on the depth chart will leave if they aren’t the starter. There’s way more to deal with now than then.
 
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PSU87

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In certain areas I guess so, killing it in others.
And there's the rub with recruiting rankings. They only address overall quantity and quality. They don't address the holistic nature of recruiting "complete" teams and addressing needs.

4 and 5 star QBs, RBs and safeties are great. But we see how good a Gatorade POY is behind a mediocre OL.
 
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LB99

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Joe had dozens of big game victories - including those on the road to counter those very rare exceptions.

The issue is that these kind non-compeete beat downs happen too frequently with Franklin. And his signature wins are too few and far between. Joe had as many in one year than Franklin has had in his entire career.

So yes, selective memory indeed. Apples to oranges. CJF is a middle of road current coach. Joe is an all-time, all timer!
This is what I am referencing. This is the mindset that came out yesterday immediately after the game. That Joe never had embarrassing losses, the team was always prepared, everyone always had confidence PSU was going to win the big games, etc. etc. During Joe’s heyday…yes. Not over the last 11 years of his tenure. I’m sorry but that just isn’t the case. There were plenty of embarrassing losses and lackluster performances.
 

MacNit

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In certain areas I guess so, killing it in others.
Got to recruit all positions at a high level to compete. Not getting it done. Can get away with it on lines (see Iowa and Wisconsin) if you develop the players. Not getting it done there either.

Time for a change.
 

Bkmtnittany1

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Got to recruit all positions at a high level to compete. Not getting it done. Can get away with it on lines (see Iowa and Wisconsin) if you develop the players. Not getting it done there either.

Time for a change.
Mike Munchak or Al Golden...
 

MacNit

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This is what I am referencing. This is the mindset that came out yesterday immediately after the game. That Joe never had embarrassing losses, the team was always prepared, everyone always had confidence PSU was going to win the big games, etc. etc. During Joe’s heyday…yes. Not over the last 11 years of his tenure. I’m sorry but that just isn’t the case. There were plenty of embarrassing losses and lackluster performances.
Yes, and many were rightly unhappy with tbe end of Joe’s tenure. But he was given a pass because if his body of work

Even still, Joe’s end-of-era teams acquitted themselves better than Franklins.
 

MacNit

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This is a different time and a different game. Coaches aren’t afforded the luxury to build a team for a few years. It’s win now or the kids transfer and you are fired. Kids who are talented but freshman on the depth chart will leave if they aren’t the starter. There’s way more to deal with now than then.
True…but the equation has been figured out quite easily by a handful of teams…they win every year.
 

psuro

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OK, so who is going to start the fund to come up wth Franklin's $70MM buyout? And then, if Assitants have any kind of clause, you have to buy them out also. So, let's be safe and say $80MM. Then, if you get an established coach, who already has a job, you will have to cover his buy out also. For the sake of argument, let's assume $30MM. So, now PSU is on the hook for $110 million, plus salaries for next contract.
 

troutrus

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We had undefeated seasons and championships under paterno.
Not much to cheer about since he left.
Until things change, we can expect to be a group of fans that lives off past accomplishments. Has beens if you’d like.
 
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WSTLion87

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I said it before and I will say it again... I'll give CJF until the END of the 2024 season. Drew Allar will by then have three seasons in the program. If there is not any signficant improvement then Kraft needs to have a sit-down with CJF. However, November 2024 is a while away so until then how about we trust the process and see where this is going? (Yes, I am well aware PSU is 2-20 against top ten teams since CJF has been here.)
 

Lionville

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I just don't understand the inability to truly be able to run the ball and stop the run for yrs now. JF and crew have brought in a slew of athletes that can get to the passer, but why can't we get some bigs that can control the los?
Same thing happened in that 1997 game vs UM. PSU had defensive tackles that weighed in around 250 lbs. The linebackers were walk-ons. I remember that game like it was yesterday as I wished for JVP to retire after that fiasco.
 
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Nitt1300

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We had undefeated seasons and championships under paterno.
Not much to cheer about since he left.
Until things change, we can expect to be a group of fans that lives off past accomplishments. Has beens if you’d like.
not much to cheer about since 1994 if you want to define it by championships and undefeated seasons- which I do myself
 
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Bkmtnittany1

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OK, so who is going to start the fund to come up wth Franklin's $70MM buyout? And then, if Assitants have any kind of clause, you have to buy them out also. So, let's be safe and say $80MM. Then, if you get an established coach, who already has a job, you will have to cover his buy out also. For the sake of argument, let's assume $30MM. So, now PSU is on the hook for $110 million, plus salaries for next contract.
Uro....is Franklin's buyout 70mm?
 
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Did he after the 34-8 drubbing AT HOME in ‘97? How about the Michigan State game where they gave up 200 yards rushing to two different Spartan RBs in the same game? How about after the Toledo fiasco? Or the 6-4 barnburner loss to Iowa? Some people really do have selective memories.
Franklin masterfully outdid all those dubious accomplishments in spades yesterday and soundly proved that we're actually worse than we think we are.
 

leinbacker

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Did he after the 34-8 drubbing AT HOME in ‘97? How about the Michigan State game where they gave up 200 yards rushing to two different Spartan RBs in the same game? How about after the Toledo fiasco? Or the 6-4 barnburner loss to Iowa? Some people really do have selective memories.

Paterno would say that after he knocked the slobber out of a good team. Maybe one day, Franklin will do the same.
 
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