ACC mulling addition of SMU

[18IsTheMan]

In addition to the Pac 12 teams. Would give the ACC a foot-hold in talent-rich Texas and the large Dallas market.

FWIW, I've always thought they had a very cool helmet logo. Not sure why.

 

[92Pony]

In addition to the Pac 12 teams. Would give the ACC a foot-hold in talent-rich Texas and the large Dallas market.

FWIW, I've always thought they had a very cool helmet logo. Not sure why.

Because it looks similar to the Ford Mustang running pony... And Mustangs are cool.

 

[Gradstudent]

They actually would probably do well in the ACC and probably elevate their football program in that conference.

 

[18IsTheMan]

IF they added Stanford, Cal and SMU, that would give them 17 teams. Wonder who 18 would be?

UConn has been lightly rumored (probably mostly by UConn). The basketball ACC schools favored adding UConn several years back but the football programs overruled.

 

[Prestonyte]

In addition to the Pac 12 teams. Would give the ACC a foot-hold in talent-rich Texas and the large Dallas market.

FWIW, I've always thought they had a very cool helmet logo. Not sure why.

It's a Dallas Cowboys market and don't you forget it!

 

[Lurker123]

This is one of those where I think the addition of the market seems awesome, but it won't bring eyeballs.

I shake my head at this and the west coast teams, and think the acc is desperately grasping at straws.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Texas and California have greater carriage rights. Add in the ESPN pro-rate, only partial revenue for the new schools, and unequal revenue sharing and some are speculating this could increase revenue by $15-20 million for the likes of FSU and Clemson, which puts them right within spitting distance of the SEC. ALL the ACC has to do is keep Clemson and FSU happy. If they're happy, nobody else matters. If they're not happy, nobody else matters.

I don't fully understand all of the above with the carriage rates and ESPN pro-rate, but all they have to do is make it make revenue sense. It doesn't need to make sense any other way. It seems like very odd and desperate additions, but if it adds up to the necessary revenue to satisfy FSU and Clemson, that's the only factor that matters. It's all about getting to a satisfactory dollar amount.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

It's a Dallas Cowboys market and don't you forget it!

When SMU was big time they played home games at Texas Stadium.

 

[Deleted11512]

This is one of those where I think the addition of the market seems awesome, but it won't bring eyeballs.

I shake my head at this and the west coast teams, and think the acc is desperately grasping at straws.

Admittingly, I know next to nothing about how media ad revenue works. So any input I have on the subject is anecdotal at best. However, the ACCN, SECN, BTN, etc...each get a piece of every cable/streaming subscription. It may not necessarily equate to eyeballs watching SMU football, but in a city with 7.6M people, that's A LOT of subs. By comparison, the SF bay area is 7.8M people.

Last year it was announced that Comcast would carry the ACCN. Comcast has 18.5M subscribers. It is estimated that the ACCN gets around $.45/mth/sub. That's around $100M for doing absolutely nothing, or $6.6M/school. Now, the Dallas area and the Bay area may already be getting the ACCN. Not sure on that. But if that opens up those two markets to more sub revenue, it's something.

 

[Deleted11512]

Texas and California have greater carriage rights. Add in the ESPN pro-rate, only partial revenue for the new schools, and unequal revenue sharing and some are speculating this could increase revenue by $15-20 million for the likes of FSU and Clemson, which puts them right within spitting distance of the SEC. ALL the ACC has to do is keep Clemson and FSU happy. If they're happy, nobody else matters. If they're not happy, nobody else matters.

I don't fully understand all of the above with the carriage rates and ESPN pro-rate, but all they have to do is make it make revenue sense. It doesn't need to make sense any other way. It seems like very odd and desperate additions, but if it adds up to the necessary revenue to satisfy FSU and Clemson, that's the only factor that matters. It's all about getting to a satisfactory dollar amount.

I've said all along, they don't have to match the SEC/B10, just get into the ballpark and they'll be fine. They do enjoy their conference of cupcakes, and leaving that buffet is the last thing they want to do. I think the SMU play is interesting on a couple of levels. Could potential signal a broader strategy of trying to poach the B12. Their media deal isn't all that great either.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Admittingly, I know next to nothing about how media ad revenue works. So any input I have on the subject is anecdotal at best. However, the ACCN, SECN, BTN, etc...each get a piece of every cable/streaming subscription. It may not necessarily equate to eyeballs watching SMU football, but in a city with 2.3M people, that's A LOT of subs. Last year it was announced that Comcast would carry the ACCN. Comcast has 18.5M subscribers. It is estimated that the ACCN gets around $.45/mth/sub. That's around $100M for doing absolutely nothing, or $6.6M/school. Now, the Houston area and the Bay area may already be getting the ACCN. Not sure on that. But if that opens up those two markets to more sub revenue, it's something.

The Dallas area has something like 7 million people, so it could work financially. Like you said, you don't have to have people watching the game.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I've said all along, they don't have to match the SEC/B10, just get into the ballpark and they'll be fine. They do enjoy their conference of cupcakes, and leaving that buffet is the last thing they want to do. I think the SMU play is interesting on a couple of levels. Could potential signal a broader strategy of trying to poach the B12. Their media deal isn't all that great either.

Yep. ALL they have to do is cobble together some amalgam of teams that gets revenue where they want it.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

The Dallas area has something like 7 million people, so it could work financially. Like you said, you don't have to have people watching the game.

The Dallas-Fort Worth area is expected to surpass the Chicago area sometime in the 2030's making it the 3rd largest metro behind New York and LA.

 

[18IsTheMan]

The Dallas-Fort Worth area is expected to surpass the Chicago area sometime in the 2030's making it the 3rd largest metro behind New York and LA.

Yeesh, didn't know that.

Who knows? Get SMU in a P5 (or whatever it's gonna be called). They have some tradition there. Play more nationally televised games. Tap into the rich recruiting base. They could really build on this.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

U.S. Population – Metropolitan Statistical Area Population
Rank Metropolitan Statistical Area 2020 Census
1 New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA 20,140,470
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA 13,200,998
3 Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI 9,618,502
4 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 7,637,387
That's from the 2020 census. It's done nothing but grow fast since then. It's estimated that it's over 8 million now. And it's nicer to live in than Atlanta. It's definitely not a hell hole to deal with like some other places. I really miss it there but not the summers.

 

[Deleted11512]

The Dallas area has something like 7 million people, so it could work financially. Like you said, you don't have to have people watching the game.

Yeah, I corrected my post from Houston to Dallas. DFW has triple the pop as Houston. The Bay Area is about the same as Dallas.

 

[Deleted11512]

Yeesh, didn't know that.

How knows? Get SMU in a P5 (or whatever it's gonna be called). They have some tradition there. Play more nationally televised games. Tap into the rich recruiting base. They could really build on this.

SMU has the money to hire coaches, and fund NIL. Look at what TCU is doing...very similar situation. They just need a bigger platform to recruit to.

 

[Deleted11512]

WOW!! SMU will forego distributions for 5+ years! Cal/Stan taking a 60-70% share.

 

[18IsTheMan]

WOW!! SMU will forego distributions for 5+ years! Cal/Stan taking a 60-70% share.

That is very interesting.

Could set Clemson and FSU up very nicely for revenue.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

No idea if this shakes out, but let me just say, adding SMU to any conference would be adding a sleeping giant.
SMU has boosters with insane and obscene amounts of money, add to that you bring in the Dallas market.
Now they have Rhett Lashlee as their HC, a great innovative offensive mind for the game.

And please don't ask me why SMU hasn't made the jump earlier because I don't know the answer to that question.

 

[Deleted11512]

No idea if this shakes out, but let me just say, adding SMU to any conference would be adding a sleeping giant.
SMU has boosters with insane and obscene amounts of money, add to that you bring in the Dallas market.
Now they have Rhett Lashlee as their HC, a great innovative offensive mind for the game.

And please don't ask me why SMU hasn't made the jump earlier because I don't know the answer to that question.

Agree 1,000%. I’m not sure if they just haven’t had an invite yet or what. But given a larger platform, they could be really, really good.

They’re also playing some really good bball, and you know the ACC loves that.

 

[IOPGCock]

In addition to the Pac 12 teams. Would give the ACC a foot-hold in talent-rich Texas and the large Dallas market.

FWIW, I've always thought they had a very cool helmet logo. Not sure why.

I like it better when paired with

 

[IOPGCock]

IF they added Stanford, Cal and SMU, that would give them 17 teams. Wonder who 18 would be?

UConn has been lightly rumored (probably mostly by UConn). The basketball ACC schools favored adding UConn several years back but the football programs overruled.

Absolutely UConn . They have to.

 

[IOPGCock]

Admittingly, I know next to nothing about how media ad revenue works. So any input I have on the subject is anecdotal at best. However, the ACCN, SECN, BTN, etc...each get a piece of every cable/streaming subscription. It may not necessarily equate to eyeballs watching SMU football, but in a city with 7.6M people, that's A LOT of subs. By comparison, the SF bay area is 7.8M people.

Last year it was announced that Comcast would carry the ACCN. Comcast has 18.5M subscribers. It is estimated that the ACCN gets around $.45/mth/sub. That's around $100M for doing absolutely nothing, or $6.6M/school. Now, the Dallas area and the Bay area may already be getting the ACCN. Not sure on that. But if that opens up those two markets to more sub revenue, it's something.

Clemson has 176k alumni. SMU 126k.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

4 voted against expansion last night.

 

[18IsTheMan]

4 voted against expansion last night.

Yep, sounds like it's probably on life support at this point. Think I read it was as least 4. They need 12/15 to vote in favor.

I actually think SMU would be an intriguing addition for the reasons you mention above. They've been trying desperately to get into a P5 conference and this is most likely their last hail Mary shot. If the ACC passes them over, it's almost a second death penalty for them.

 

[KingWard]

When SMU was big time they played home games at Texas Stadium.

They basically the invented NIL, only they didn't require anything to get the money, and got the death penalty for it. The NIL became the way to pay players and not get the death penalty.

 

[Prestonyte]

They basically the invented NIL, only they didn't require anything to get the money, and got the death penalty for it. The NIL became the way to pay players and not get the death penalty.

Yes, open payment now, but still no strict rules enforcement of "guidelines" for those straying outside the lines.

 

[KingWard]

Yes, open payment now, but still no strict rules enforcement of "guidelines" for those straying outside the lines.

I don't even know if there are any lines. That's why Congress needs to assert/insert itself. They aren't doing anything else.

 

[KingWard]

Yep, sounds like it's probably on life support at this point. Think I read it was as least 4. They need 12/15 to vote in favor.

I actually think SMU would be an intriguing addition for the reasons you mention above. They've been trying desperately to get into a P5 conference and this is most likely their last hail Mary shot. If the ACC passes them over, it's almost a second death penalty for them.

Thamel has provided the best coverage all the time. https://www.espn.com/college-sports...-cal-stanford-acc-hits-significant-roadblocks

Someone is going to have to show me why any of these people would oppose this if expanding would close most of the revenue gap. The answer must be that it really doesn't. Closing the gap will require expanding PLUS unequal distribution. If I'm Wake Forest, Duke, Syracuse, BC, or Pittsburgh, I ain't votin' for that. At any rate, it looks like SMU is out.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Thamel has provided the best coverage all the time. https://www.espn.com/college-sports...-cal-stanford-acc-hits-significant-roadblocks

Someone is going to have to show me why any of these people would oppose this if expanding would close most of the revenue gap. The answer must be that it really doesn't. Closing the gap will require expanding PLUS unequal distribution. If I'm Wake Forest, Miami, Duke, Syracuse, BC, or Pittsburgh, I ain't votin' for that. At any rate, it looks like SMU is out.

We would need to know who the at least four programs are who are opposing it.

 

[KingWard]

We would need to know who the at least four programs are who are opposing it.

It will probably come out in time. And really, efforts might be made to save it. Even the scant possibility of adding Notre Dame to the league eventually by doing this would be enough not to give up easily.

 

[GCJerryUSC]

When the ACC collapses down to 4 teams, they can then merge with the 4 team Pac4. Love seeing the Bad Karma finally getting to a conference that so richly deserves it and to think they told USC to pound sand when it tried to get back in. Ha!
Kinda surprised the B12 hasn't offered SMU.

 

[18IsTheMan]

It will probably come out in time. And really, efforts might be made to save it. Even the scant possibility of adding Notre Dame to the league eventually by doing this would be enough not to give up easily.

ND is advocating for the additions of Cal and Stanford, so I guess that carrot is dangling out there..."if we do what ND wants, maybe they will join." It's weird that ND is not a member of the ACC in football, but they have full voting power. So even though they aren't a member in the only sport that matters for revenue purposes, they get a voice in those decisions.

IF the ACC could add ND that changes everything. One of the small handful of teams in the country with a true national following. Those chances are slightly worse than slim to none I would imagine. ND's current NBC deal expires after next year, which is interesting timing.

 

[Deleted11512]

4 voted against expansion last night.

Technically not a vote. 4 voiced their displeasure, and they are delaying a potential vote. My guess is they're trying to get Stan/Cal's share down to around 50%.

Or, perhaps a group of 4 have banded together to just make life miserable for the rest so they can vote to dissolve?? Who knows.

 

[KingWard]

Technically not a vote. 4 voiced their displeasure, and they are delaying a potential vote. My guess is they're trying to get Stan/Cal's share down to around 50%.

Or, perhaps a group of 4 have banded together to just make life miserable for the rest so they can vote to dissolve?? Who knows.

Both are cogent hypotheses.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

We would need to know who the at least four programs are who are opposing it.

One I know for sure, 2 would be very educated guesses, the 4th I'm not sure of.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

Thamel has provided the best coverage all the time. https://www.espn.com/college-sports...-cal-stanford-acc-hits-significant-roadblocks

Someone is going to have to show me why any of these people would oppose this if expanding would close most of the revenue gap. The answer must be that it really doesn't. Closing the gap will require expanding PLUS unequal distribution. If I'm Wake Forest, Miami, Duke, Syracuse, BC, or Pittsburgh, I ain't votin' for that. At any rate, it looks like SMU is out.

Miami, Clemson and FSU are the advocates for unequal distribution.
Hate them, like them, indifferent. Those 3 are national brands, and this is not just my opinion, but from every sports writer, podcaster covering this saga. If some don't agree, then take it up with them.

 

[Deleted11512]

Miami, Clemson and FSU are the advocates for unequal distribution.
Hate them, like them, indifferent. Those 3 are national brands, and this is not just my opinion, but from every sports writer, podcaster covering this saga. If some don't agree, then take it up with them.

I would think UNC and Duke would be as well, since bball is factored into that formula.

 

[Pepsicock]

If the ACC was smart, they would take East Carolina. and West Virginia