Another OT from Your's Truly here: Nationals burned by quirky 'fourth-out rule' as Pirates score despite lining into inning-ending double play...

Gaimcock

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Jan 22, 2022
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Just happened to catch this one while surfin' the web this morning. To get to point, I thought the double play meant the run from 3rd didn't count. But it did! See the article below!...

Directly from YouTube...





A direct link to the article and a shorter YouTube...

Nationals burned by quirky 'fourth-out rule' as Pirates score despite lining into inning-ending double play https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/...espite-lining-into-inning-ending-double-play/

In short, Washington's failure to question the call before they left the field GAVE Pitt the run! Their assumption that the standard rules were in play (i.e., the run from 3rd NOT counting due to the runner not tagging up) cost them a run!! Am I right or wrong?? The Ump's not correctly calling it, and Washington not questioning the call until AFTER they'd left the field cost them a run?!?! Crazy, crazy IMHO.
 
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Prestonyte

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Jun 1, 2022
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Just happened to catch this one while surfin' the web this morning. To get to point, I thought the double play meant the run from 3rd didn't count. But it did! See the article below!...

Directly from YouTube...





A direct link to the article and a shorter YouTube...

Nationals burned by quirky 'fourth-out rule' as Pirates score despite lining into inning-ending double play https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/...espite-lining-into-inning-ending-double-play/

In short, Washington's failure to question the call before they left the field GAVE Pitt the run! Their assumption that the standard rules were in play (i.e., the run from 3rd NOT counting due to the runner not tagging up) cost them a run!! Am I right or wrong?? The Ump's not correctly calling it, and Washington not questioning the call until AFTER they'd left the field cost them a run?!?! Crazy, crazy IMHO.

So, it's not that the run scored before the third out but strictly because the appeal was not made before the team left the field that the runner on third left without tagging and is not eligible to score. Correct? In a world where everything is reviewed or appealed, big mistake by Nationals coach.
 
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Gaimcock

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So, it's not that the run scored before the third out but strictly because the appeal was not made before the team left the field that the runner on third left without tagging and is not eligible to score. Correct? In a world where everything is reviewed or appealed, big mistake by Nationals coach.
That was pretty much my "take", but how come the Ump's didn't just call it??

BUT, this from the very article linked above...

The confusion stems from Suwinski. He crossed the plate without tagging up at third base and his run counts despite not tagging up. That's because the Nationals never appealed Suwinski leaving early.

This is covered by MLB Rule 5.09(c), the section covering appeal plays, and is colloquially known as the "fourth-out rule." From the rulebook: (c) Appeal Plays

Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when:

(1) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged; Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning, the appeal must be made before the defensive team leaves the field.


Again, my question is simply How come the umps just didn't call the out at third as the 3rd out, hence the run doesn't/didn't count?? My "take"?? I guess that's just "part of the game" that coaches should know, hence, Yes, the Nationals coach dropped the ball so to speak!

Someone, anyone feel free to correct my take here!!
 

Gaimcock

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Been watching and studying baseball all my life. And I am always learning
Yeah, and that's kinda how in my mind both baseball and golf are played by the most simplest of rules, which sometimes tend to get extremely complicated on the most simplest of issues!
 

HillsToSea

Joined Apr 12, 2020
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Yeah, and that's kinda how in my mind both baseball and golf are played by the most simplest of rules, which sometimes tend to get extremely complicated on the most simplest of issues!
They don’t call baseball a thinking man’s game for nothing
 
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KingWard

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I would have thought that the double play to end the inning would have cancelled the run, but baseball has a lot of arcane rules. But let's say a ball was hit to the outfield with a runners on first and third and one man out. The ball is caught in the outfield for the second out; the runner on third tags up and scores, and the ball is thrown behind the runner who was on first and he doesn't get back to the base in time. Basically, a double-play occurred but the run scored by the man who had tagged up at third would stand because the play at first occurred subsequent to the run scoring. Isn't that correct?
 
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CockofEarle

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Jan 31, 2022
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Just happened to catch this one while surfin' the web this morning. To get to point, I thought the double play meant the run from 3rd didn't count. But it did! See the article below!...

Directly from YouTube...





A direct link to the article and a shorter YouTube...

Nationals burned by quirky 'fourth-out rule' as Pirates score despite lining into inning-ending double play https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/...espite-lining-into-inning-ending-double-play/

In short, Washington's failure to question the call before they left the field GAVE Pitt the run! Their assumption that the standard rules were in play (i.e., the run from 3rd NOT counting due to the runner not tagging up) cost them a run!! Am I right or wrong?? The Ump's not correctly calling it, and Washington not questioning the call until AFTER they'd left the field cost them a run?!?! Crazy, crazy IMHO.

This is the type of play we all should luv & as a bonus everyone has time to grab a cold one😃
 

Gaimcock

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Jan 22, 2022
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I would have thought that the double play to end the inning would have cancelled the run, but baseball has a lot of arcane rules. But let's say a ball was hit to the outfield with a runners on first and third and one man out. The ball is caught in the outfield for the second out; the runner on third tags up and scores, and the ball is thrown behind the runner who was on first and he doesn't get back to the base in time. Basically, a double-play occurred but the run scored by the man who had tagged up at third would stand because the play at first occurred subsequent to the run scoring. Isn't that correct?
Uhh, yeah. I think. =;-p

But as to the initial question in regards to the Pitt vs Washington game (i.e., the very reason I created this thread), after rewatching the video again, the second baseman caught the ball for out #2, the runner originally on second that made it to third was tagged out for out #3 because he DIDN'T TAG UP ON 2nd!!

BUT, the runner that was on 3rd and ran home without tagging, was granted the run because it looked as if he tagged home BEFORE the runner now on 3rd was tagged out for NOT TAGGING on 2nd!!

Since the guy originally on third that made it home without tagging up, the run still counted because he was never tagged!! Since the Nationals coach didn't question such BEFORE his team left the field for the dugout, the the play stands, EVEN thought they got the 3rd out for tagging the runner originally on third for NOT tagging on second!!!

Weird and difficult to initially understand, but after rewatching it several times, I guess I understand now: The Nationals Shoulda Questioned The Run!! If they had, it would've been removed as far as I comprehend!!

In fact, this is starting to sound/read like that old "Who's on First" joke by Abbott and Costello!!!

 

Prestonyte

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I would have thought that the double play to end the inning would have cancelled the run, but baseball has a lot of arcane rules. But let's say a ball was hit to the outfield with a runners on first and third and one man out. The ball is caught in the outfield for the second out; the runner on third tags up and scores, and the ball is thrown behind the runner who was on first and he doesn't get back to the base in time. Basically, a double-play occurred but the run scored by the man who had tagged up at third would stand because the play at first occurred subsequent to the run scoring. Isn't that correct?
I thought the same thing. Very confusing rule that no one knows apparently.
 

HillsToSea

Joined Apr 12, 2020
Jan 25, 2022
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I would have thought that the double play to end the inning would have cancelled the run, but baseball has a lot of arcane rules. But let's say a ball was hit to the outfield with a runners on first and third and one man out. The ball is caught in the outfield for the second out; the runner on third tags up and scores, and the ball is thrown behind the runner who was on first and he doesn't get back to the base in time. Basically, a double-play occurred but the run scored by the man who had tagged up at third would stand because the play at first occurred subsequent to the run scoring. Isn't that correct?
As far as I know that is correct
 

HillsToSea

Joined Apr 12, 2020
Jan 25, 2022
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I would have thought that the double play to end the inning would have cancelled the run, but baseball has a lot of arcane rules. But let's say a ball was hit to the outfield with a runners on first and third and one man out. The ball is caught in the outfield for the second out; the runner on third tags up and scores, and the ball is thrown behind the runner who was on first and he doesn't get back to the base in time. Basically, a double-play occurred but the run scored by the man who had tagged up at third would stand because the play at first occurred subsequent to the run scoring. Isn't that correct?
Someone call Batgirl
 

Palmetto Golf

Joined May 16, 2015
Jan 22, 2022
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I would have thought that the double play to end the inning would have cancelled the run, but baseball has a lot of arcane rules. But let's say a ball was hit to the outfield with a runners on first and third and one man out. The ball is caught in the outfield for the second out; the runner on third tags up and scores, and the ball is thrown behind the runner who was on first and he doesn't get back to the base in time. Basically, a double-play occurred but the run scored by the man who had tagged up at third would stand because the play at first occurred subsequent to the run scoring. Isn't that correct?
I agree that with your conclusion in your scenerio but in your hyperthetical the runner coming home did not have a rules infraction, he tagged up. What I do not understand is why the run would count in this scenerio because he did not tag up. If the third baseman had stepped on the bag before he tagged the runner, would that have made a difference?
 

KingWard

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I agree that with your conclusion in your scenerio but in your hyperthetical the runner coming home did not have a rules infraction, he tagged up. What I do not understand is why the run would count in this scenerio because he did not tag up. If the third baseman had stepped on the bag before he tagged the runner, would that have made a difference?
Only if he had the ball.
 

Cocksure

Joined Nov 14, 2004
Jan 19, 2022
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Instead of tagging the runner from second they should have stepped on the third and the runner that crossed the plate would have been out.
 
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