Are Keenum and Selmon intentionally wrecking MSU Football?

Maroon13

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If you really listen any time Selmon speaks, he always refers back to the "student athlete" when mentioning capital improvements or spending in general.

Selmons first priority is the "student athlete" and that is who he will spend money on. Period.

Y'all, who want lights and speakers (I do too) or even a seat with a damn back on it....are going to have to raise the money to get it done.
 
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dudehead

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There is a lot to this.

I sometimes do wonder if Keenum is reluctant to do what it takes to stay at the highest level of college football because he doesn't think we can sustain the financial support it would require. Some of the decisions/non-decisions I see being made now appear to be more than just inept. One thing I do know is his vision of the future of college football is far more insightful than any of ours.
What is Keenum's vision of the future of college football? I have no idea.
 

L4Dawg

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What is Keenum's vision of the future of college football? I have no idea.
Well, he pushed for the 12 team playoff, and was essential to getting it done. He carries a lot of weight in the college football world. I know that's not what the narrative here says, but it is the truth. He is respected and listened to. I would argue that that's a very good thing to have in our side right now.
 
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thatsbaseball

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What is Keenum's vision of the future of college football? I have no idea.
Nor do I. I was just saying his (whatever it may be) is based on a lot more information than any of us have available . I guess I was wondering out loud if he was unsure about our ability to stay at the highest level going forward. Quite frankly we are making moves (or not making moves) that are kinda baffling right now IMO.
 

L4Dawg

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Having to pony up more than a few juicy jumbos for a first time ever DC is part of the problem some are missing.
EXACTLY. We had to pay well above market rate to get HIM. It sucks but it is what it is.
 

L4Dawg

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We didn't have to do that. There is zero chance there wasn't a G5 coordinator we could have gotten for less. Even if Lebby is disliked and/or thought to be a moron so that better DC candidates were off the table, if the choice was between giving a $3M guarantee to an unqualified candidate from a p4 school or giving $2M guaranteed to a good DC from G5 school, you go with the cheaper unproven option.

I find it hard to believe though that as many head coaches get fired every year, there wasn't a retread option that could have been at least mildly competent at DC and also helped Lebby transition to being a first time head coach.

And if you are at the point where you are having to give a $3M guarantee to an unqualified DC, you have to think about whether with as much money as you have sunk into the head coaching contract you don't need to go even bigger until you get somebody that can at least give Lebby a chance to not suck his first year.
Know that for a fact do you? Names? Sources?
 

dawgflo

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I'm convinced that this board has a guy who has about 9 accounts. He then logs in all nine and posts arguments w/ himself just to get a few people fired up. Some of the posts are embarrassingly hilarious and ridiculous.
 

patdog

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And we STILL had to pay well above market rate to get him to come.
No we didn't. Why would DC be the one coach on campus we had to overpay to get? It's not like he had a lot of other schools beating down his door. The man needed a job. It was a bad hire at any price, but it could have easily been a bad cheap hire.
 

ronpolk

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Yall aren't thinking big enough. It runs so much deeper than Keenum and LT.

The real mastermind of our downfall is Budweiser Car Guy.
Man I have not thought about the Budweiser car guy in years.
 

horshack.sixpack

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I don't know what it is in our society about always assuming a conspiracy is to blame, but it appear to apply to anything and everything.
If it doesn't involve two trips around the moon, dispensing with logic, reason and facts, and enough mental gymnastics to bend Simone Biles out of shape, I refuse to believe it. All you sheep keep on falling for the obvious answers.***
 

johnson86-1

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Know that for a fact do you? Names? Sources?
Do I know for a fact that there were coordinators willing to come to MSU to work with Lebby for three times their current salary? I can't guarantee you that Defensive coordinators weren't suddenly immune to human nature, but I think it's a pretty safe bet. You have a reason to think that say the top 20 defensive coordinators in G5 would all refrain from tripling their salary?
 

Chesusdog

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Man I have not thought about the Budweiser car guy in years.

I like to think he's still out there, shamelessly promoting brands and selling dirt weed to impressionable youths. That or he was a ghost finally put to rest when they demolished Suttle Hall.

One of those.
 
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L4Dawg

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Do I know for a fact that there were coordinators willing to come to MSU to work with Lebby for three times their current salary? I can't guarantee you that Defensive coordinators weren't suddenly immune to human nature, but I think it's a pretty safe bet. You have a reason to think that say the top 20 defensive coordinators in G5 would all refrain from tripling their salary?
Names? Sources?
 

L4Dawg

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No we didn't. Why would DC be the one coach on campus we had to overpay to get? It's not like he had a lot of other schools beating down his door. The man needed a job. It was a bad hire at any price, but it could have easily been a bad cheap hire.
Well, we did.
 

patdog

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Good lord man, you're really being insufferable with this whole ridiculous argument. As others have said, there's any number of G5 defensive coaches we could have easily had for far less than half the commitment. And, as I said, it's not like Hutzler had a lot of prospects himself.
 
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randystewart

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This has a very LT feel. LT’s goal was to work for the SEC and continuously wrecked MSU Football to appease the SEC and eventually led to him getting his SEC job. Keenum is a lifelong Bureaucrat. Bureaucrats have a goal to get titles and buildings,bridges, highways named after them to achieve some level of immortality. They thrive when they are leaders of committees and look to advance their own personal agenda.
The wrecking of MSU Football is almost too intentional to be blamed on incompetence.
Late to this party, but good lord. Larry had no goal but to be MSU athletic director and fought tooth and nail to avoid his demise in that position. I'm not defending the job he did in any way, but you are either wholly misinformed or just making stuff up. Also, in what way has Keenum made his time at MSU about his own personal agenda? Football sucks at the moment but he has also presided over the best period of MSU sports that we have ever known.
To respond to some of the other stuff below as well: After Leach died, we have had extreme trouble getting coaches interested in coming here. Some of you have a false sense of reality. In hindsight, we absolutely should have kept the Leach system intact. However, Leach knew he had health problems, was only going to work one more year and had already recommended to Cohen and others that Arnett be his replacement. Hiring Arnett was 100% honoring Leach's wishes. Now, Arnett proceeded to start a loyalty pissing contest with the longtime Leach assistants who did not want him to get the job and then tanked the offense in the process. That is what has landed us where we are today. Also, no established D-Coordinator would even sniff our job when Lebby was trying to fill out a staff. Anyone calming otherwise doesn't know jack crap about how many times we were turned down.
On to Selmon: Likely wasn't the right hire but was highly recommended by several ADs very trusted in the space. He has had his bumps in the road and I believe we are in a financial pickle because of those bumps, but by all accounts he is coming around and settling in. On that financial pickle front, I do not believe we can afford to fire Hutzler at the moment because of the buyout and the harsh reality that we would struggle to get someone else to take the job.
MSU football absolutely sucks right now, I'd argue it is as bad as the Croom years. No arguing that, but your reasoning can go back squarely to Arnett being in a pissing match with the Leach offensive staff who didn't want him to get the job.
 

615dawg

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randystewart speaks truth.

We're facing quite the crisis in the next few years and it extends well beyond football. The push for an A+ gameday experience is more important than wins and losses. We have to attract students. Our 17ed up scholarship matrix has to be fixed, but if students don't want to come to State because the experience is more boring than their high school, we're going to have trouble paying for a lot of things.

The university is running at a $234 million operating loss. 63% of our outflows are salaries and benefits (over $500 million). The university has $312 million in debt and $623 million in pension liabilities. MSU is going to have to make some tough decisions soon.




 
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L4Dawg

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Good lord man, you're really being insufferable with this whole ridiculous argument. As others have said, there's any number of G5 defensive coaches we could have easily had for far less than half the commitment. And, as I said, it's not like Hutzler had a lot of prospects himself.
I keep seeing that. But I've never seen a name mentioned. It was widely known what we had coming back on defense. I think it was a lot harder to get somebody than is gospel on this board. The evidence does tend to support my assertion. We payed way over market value for a nobody.
 

L4Dawg

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Oct 27, 2016
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Late to this party, but good lord. Larry had no goal but to be MSU athletic director and fought tooth and nail to avoid his demise in that position. I'm not defending the job he did in any way, but you are either wholly misinformed or just making stuff up. Also, in what way has Keenum made his time at MSU about his own personal agenda? Football sucks at the moment but he has also presided over the best period of MSU sports that we have ever known.
To respond to some of the other stuff below as well: After Leach died, we have had extreme trouble getting coaches interested in coming here. Some of you have a false sense of reality. In hindsight, we absolutely should have kept the Leach system intact. However, Leach knew he had health problems, was only going to work one more year and had already recommended to Cohen and others that Arnett be his replacement. Hiring Arnett was 100% honoring Leach's wishes. Now, Arnett proceeded to start a loyalty pissing contest with the longtime Leach assistants who did not want him to get the job and then tanked the offense in the process. That is what has landed us where we are today. Also, no established D-Coordinator would even sniff our job when Lebby was trying to fill out a staff. Anyone calming otherwise doesn't know jack crap about how many times we were turned down.
On to Selmon: Likely wasn't the right hire but was highly recommended by several ADs very trusted in the space. He has had his bumps in the road and I believe we are in a financial pickle because of those bumps, but by all accounts he is coming around and settling in. On that financial pickle front, I do not believe we can afford to fire Hutzler at the moment because of the buyout and the harsh reality that we would struggle to get someone else to take the job.
MSU football absolutely sucks right now, I'd argue it is as bad as the Croom years. No arguing that, but your reasoning can go back squarely to Arnett being in a pissing match with the Leach offensive staff who didn't want him to get the job.
Yep
 

L4Dawg

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randystewart speaks truth.

We're facing quite the crisis in the next few years and it extends well beyond football. The push for an A+ gameday experience is more important than wins and losses. We have to attract students. Our 17ed up scholarship matrix has to be fixed, but if students don't want to come to State because the experience is more boring than their high school, we're going to have trouble paying for a lot of things.

The university is running at a $234 million operating loss. 63% of our outflows are salaries and benefits (over $500 million). The university has $312 million in debt and $623 million in pension liabilities. MSU is going to have to make some tough decisions soon.




Does that include the state support on the revenue side?
 

DoggieDaddy13

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Dec 23, 2017
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randystewart speaks truth.

We're facing quite the crisis in the next few years and it extends well beyond football. The push for an A+ gameday experience is more important than wins and losses. We have to attract students. Our 17ed up scholarship matrix has to be fixed, but if students don't want to come to State because the experience is more boring than their high school, we're going to have trouble paying for a lot of things.

The university is running at a $234 million operating loss. 63% of our outflows are salaries and benefits (over $500 million). The university has $312 million in debt and $623 million in pension liabilities. MSU is going to have to make some tough decisions soon.




CUT THOSE PENSIONS!
 

patdog

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I keep seeing that. But I've never seen a name mentioned. It was widely known what we had coming back on defense. I think it was a lot harder to get somebody than is gospel on this board. The evidence does tend to support my assertion. We payed way over market value for a nobody.
Just go down the list of G5 defensive coordinators and blindly stab you finger at one. That's a name we probably could have had. Seriously, it's ridiculous to demand a name. It's as if you think there were other candidates. Just like with the Lebby hire, there weren't. Both were done sweetheart crony deals from the beginning. THAT's why Hutzler is overpaid.
 

L4Dawg

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Just go down the list of G5 defensive coordinators and blindly stab you finger at one. That's a name we probably could have had. Seriously, it's ridiculous to demand a name. It's as if you think there were other candidates. Just like with the Lebby hire, there weren't. Both were done sweetheart crony deals from the beginning. THAT's why Hutzler is overpaid.
Not according to what I was told.
 

Mr. Cook

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Nov 4, 2021
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randystewart speaks truth.

We're facing quite the crisis in the next few years and it extends well beyond football. The push for an A+ gameday experience is more important than wins and losses. We have to attract students. Our 17ed up scholarship matrix has to be fixed, but if students don't want to come to State because the experience is more boring than their high school, we're going to have trouble paying for a lot of things.

The university is running at a $234 million operating loss. 63% of our outflows are salaries and benefits (over $500 million). The university has $312 million in debt and $623 million in pension liabilities. MSU is going to have to make some tough decisions soon.




titanic james cameron GIF
 

L4Dawg

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Well then tell us what you heard instead of just posting vague nebulous bullsh*t. Who specifically turned us down?
I heard essentially what was posted by someone else above, and what I've been posting for a month. We had real trouble getting anyone to take it. ALL of the established coordinators wouldn't really even talk to us. That's why we wound up with what we did for the price we paid. It was known what we had to work with.
 

L4Dawg

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LOLOL. You routinely get told wrong, buddy. Sure someone isn't just 17ing with you?
No. That source has pretty much always been right. Now could we have done got a better position guy to take it? The source never mentioned that. I took that one way. Y'all can take it anyway you want to. That's the problem with firing the guy. It's going to cost at least two million, and there is absolutely no guarantee we will do any better. The odds are high we won't.
 

ETK99

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Jul 30, 2019
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If you really listen any time Selmon speaks, he always refers back to the "student athlete" when mentioning capital improvements or spending in general.

Selmons first priority is the "student athlete" and that is who he will spend money on. Period.

Y'all, who want lights and speakers (I do too) or even a seat with a damn back on it....are going to have to raise the money to get it done.
Well, he spent on a terrible DC, so there's that
 

ETK99

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Jul 30, 2019
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No. That source has pretty much always been right. Now could we have done got a better position guy to take it? The source never mentioned that. I took that one way. Y'all can take it anyway you want to. That's the problem with firing the guy. It's going to cost at least two million, and there is absolutely no guarantee we will do any better. The odds are high we won't.
LOL poor ole Mississippi State
 

DawgFan69420

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Oct 14, 2024
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This may end up on the message board genius twitter page.

There is no way some of you guys actually believe some of the goofy stuff you post.
Where is the proof that says they ,at the very least, they aren’t intentionally holding back the football program?
 

patdog

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I heard essentially what was posted by someone else above, and what I've been posting for a month. We had real trouble getting anyone to take it. ALL of the established coordinators wouldn't really even talk to us. That's why we wound up with what we did for the price we paid. It was known what we had to work with.
Any word on what specifically was turning these coaches off? Lebby, Selmon, roster talent, coaching turnover, etc.?
 
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