At what point does gas prices affect your ability to follow State?...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
- Status
calling this black helicopter would be an understatement of epic proportions.</p>
There is a world wide crisis of corn (& rice b/c it is used as well) shortages due to these foods being used for ethanol production. In addition, production of ethanol uses more electrical energy than production of gasoline. Furthermore, ethanol is less efficient than gasoline when burned in powering engines.
This is being used for some engines on a limited basis, but alas, it only works with diesel engines currently I believe.
Really....so there are engines out there that "burn" water for fuel? I need to get me one of those. Now, there are outrageously expensive prototype vehicles that use hydrogen and what comes out of the "exhaust" pipe is only water. However, there umpteen problems with hydrogen as a fuel.....think Hindenburg.
then why are corn & rice prices rocketing upwards even in comparison to the overall price increase in food (due to transportation costs)? Why are certain retailers beginning to ration rice & corn purchases both in the U.S. and abroad?
[b said:
1. We eat less than 1% of the corn produced in the US (Modern Marvels)
2. Ethanol would be cheap to produce if the Libs would let us build more nuclear reactors
3. Im in favor of biofuels
4. Im all for hydrogen. I think this needs to be the focus of our research and development dollars.
/Thus concludes my presentation. </p>
Directly, that is most likely true. However, when you consider the vast quantities of American livestock that are corn fed, I would be willing to bet that the % increases greatly. Now factor in corn in other industrial uses such as prescription drugs, cosmetics, cleansers & corn byproducts such as corn syrup (soda), corn used for whiskey production, and corn starch (used in paper & other things) and the % grows. In fact, per this link from Purdue
-I agree that we need nuclear capability. It would greatly reduce the costs of electricity and other energy production.
-I have no problem with the idea & principles of biofuels. However, in the interim, we could greatly reduce our oil prices by increasing our refining capacity as well as tapping the estimated 16 billion barrels in ANWAR, which is enough to keep us oil independent for at least another 15 years.
-I have no problem with the idea of hydroren either, but the technology is still at least a decade off from being reliable, maintainable, and cost attractive to the average populace.</p>*Edit to correct estimates of oil reserves in Anwar.
J
JR
Guest
here allow me to 'splain.
While the corn used for Ethanol isnt the same type of corn used for Consumer consumption, Farmers right now are PLANTING more acres of crops suitable for Ethanol consumption. AND since arable land IS a ZERO sum game (meaning that if you plant more of X there is automatically less available for Y) the supply of Wheat, Corn, rice etc suitable for human consumption goes DOWN and DEMAND doesnnt likewise decline......(wait for it boys).....prices MUST go up....its the law of supply and demand that conservatives are so in love with...you know...market forces.
That ends our economic lesson for the day.
While the corn used for Ethanol isnt the same type of corn used for Consumer consumption, Farmers right now are PLANTING more acres of crops suitable for Ethanol consumption. AND since arable land IS a ZERO sum game (meaning that if you plant more of X there is automatically less available for Y) the supply of Wheat, Corn, rice etc suitable for human consumption goes DOWN and DEMAND doesnnt likewise decline......(wait for it boys).....prices MUST go up....its the law of supply and demand that conservatives are so in love with...you know...market forces.
That ends our economic lesson for the day.
He'll tell you there is no way a politician would do anything that is self serving at the expense of the State. They always vote what's best for the State or they get voted out.
/Good stuff.
/Good stuff.
1. Over the past three years around the world there has been terrible droughts or bad weather that have really taken chunk out of the normal surpluses of grain. Here in the US, the last 3 wheat crops have been awful, in Australia there has been a terrible drought for about 5 years now and that has seriously affected their rice and wheat crops. The largest rice mill plant in the eastern hemisphere is in Australia and last year it shut down because there was no rice or not enough rice to keep it running. China has seen terrible crop weather the last 3 years and that has drastically changed their grain stocks.
2. You have an emerging middle class in developing countries like India and China that have more money now to spend on better food. The demand for more rice and corn has increased exponentially in the last few years.
3. The rationing done by Sams and Costco was more of a stunt more than anything else. Works just like a gas rationing. Everyone hears they are rationing gas and thinks they need to go fill up.
90% of the rice Americans consume comes from here and 50% of the total rice production in the US is exported around the world. The rice acreage in the US can and does produce way more rice than we ever will need. Many other rice producing countries around the world have either halted or put a serious strangle on the amount of rice that can be exported from their countries because of their own food problems. Hence the reason you see rice prices rising. Rice and cotton are really more world markets than Corn, soybeans, and wheat. What other countries do in rice and cotton can change prices.
4. Now more than ever there are speculators in the grain markets. They are spilling over from the energy markets and are running this stuff up to a degree.
5. The weak US dollar makes a huge different in trade. Countries are buying it up because of the weak US dollar.
Ethanol production is just a small part of increasing prices. Most of it just a matter of simple supply and demand.
2. You have an emerging middle class in developing countries like India and China that have more money now to spend on better food. The demand for more rice and corn has increased exponentially in the last few years.
3. The rationing done by Sams and Costco was more of a stunt more than anything else. Works just like a gas rationing. Everyone hears they are rationing gas and thinks they need to go fill up.
90% of the rice Americans consume comes from here and 50% of the total rice production in the US is exported around the world. The rice acreage in the US can and does produce way more rice than we ever will need. Many other rice producing countries around the world have either halted or put a serious strangle on the amount of rice that can be exported from their countries because of their own food problems. Hence the reason you see rice prices rising. Rice and cotton are really more world markets than Corn, soybeans, and wheat. What other countries do in rice and cotton can change prices.
4. Now more than ever there are speculators in the grain markets. They are spilling over from the energy markets and are running this stuff up to a degree.
5. The weak US dollar makes a huge different in trade. Countries are buying it up because of the weak US dollar.
Ethanol production is just a small part of increasing prices. Most of it just a matter of simple supply and demand.
J
JR
Guest
is one of the real classy posters around here.
Personally I think its somewhat amusing someone who claims to the board expert on agribuisness doesn get this:
Arable land = Fixed comodity
More Ethonal acres means less acres for food consumption means less supply
Less supply + Constant on moderately increasing demand = higher prices
Thats not rocket science right there, thats basic street level economics.
If the agribuisness expert doesnt get that, I think that makes him fair game.
Personally I think its somewhat amusing someone who claims to the board expert on agribuisness doesn get this:
Arable land = Fixed comodity
More Ethonal acres means less acres for food consumption means less supply
Less supply + Constant on moderately increasing demand = higher prices
Thats not rocket science right there, thats basic street level economics.
If the agribuisness expert doesnt get that, I think that makes him fair game.
J
JR
Guest
you would if we didnt have 150,000 guys on the Saudia Arabia penisula right now.
People can talk about Anwar and off shore oil drilling all they want, but the REAL problem is that we (and the world) gets the majority of its oil from a historically unstable part of the world.
We need to find something else to power our vehicles. Its that simple. As Cowpower said, with China and India comming on line, this problems gets ALOT worse in the upcomming years if we dont find a new way to power our economy.
People can talk about Anwar and off shore oil drilling all they want, but the REAL problem is that we (and the world) gets the majority of its oil from a historically unstable part of the world.
We need to find something else to power our vehicles. Its that simple. As Cowpower said, with China and India comming on line, this problems gets ALOT worse in the upcomming years if we dont find a new way to power our economy.
Seshomoru said:
Not far from the truth.... Just make the graph more complicated.
I actually had a chat with a client of ours who hates Bush and his direct influence on gas prices. Metioning that if we were to drill Alaska and support Russia in their drilling efforts was of no use.... It was still all Bush's fault.</p>
either way they won't let us drill in our own country. how stupid is this? We sit on huge reserves in Alaska and North Dakota. Oh but let's not drill because a bird might die. No we would rather rely on nations filled with terrorists. that makes so much sense!
to see that your ignorance and stupidity bleeds over into non-sports topics as well.
Exxon currently makes about 4 cents profit on a gallon of gas. FOUR CENTS. It was 8 cents last year. (I found an AP article about this - use google). Four cents is about 1% profit on a $3.50 gallon. For comparison sake, most major retailers make anywhere from 3-4% to 10% profit on their sales. The Federal government rakes in about 18 cents per gallon purchased, however, or 4.5 times what Exxon makes. States make even more - the latest average was 27 cents per gallon in state taxes.
In 2007, Exxon paid 30 billion dollars in taxes, or more than the <span style="font-weight: bold;">entire bottom 50% (by AGI) of United States individual taxpayers paid - $27 billion. That represents 65 million taxpayers. </span>
Want the price of gas to go down? Get the federal, state, and local governments to cut taxes on gasoline, and petition the federal gov't to build refineries and drill for more domestic oil.
Freaking idiot. Read a book.
Exxon currently makes about 4 cents profit on a gallon of gas. FOUR CENTS. It was 8 cents last year. (I found an AP article about this - use google). Four cents is about 1% profit on a $3.50 gallon. For comparison sake, most major retailers make anywhere from 3-4% to 10% profit on their sales. The Federal government rakes in about 18 cents per gallon purchased, however, or 4.5 times what Exxon makes. States make even more - the latest average was 27 cents per gallon in state taxes.
In 2007, Exxon paid 30 billion dollars in taxes, or more than the <span style="font-weight: bold;">entire bottom 50% (by AGI) of United States individual taxpayers paid - $27 billion. That represents 65 million taxpayers. </span>
Want the price of gas to go down? Get the federal, state, and local governments to cut taxes on gasoline, and petition the federal gov't to build refineries and drill for more domestic oil.
Freaking idiot. Read a book.
dawginlaurel said:
</p>How many people have driven their cars off of the road to avoid hitting a dog?
Exxon has reported 10 billion in profits the last two quarters. That 20 billion in 6 months profit. And its record profit for the company. Record profits, and we are suffering because there are no alternatives. I'm not arguing there shouldnt be more refineries, but nothing in my statement was wrong Meo
But their profits come from just about every other source BUT gas prices. And they pay their fair share of taxes, 40%. What I'm telling you is that the culprit for high gas prices are TAXES and speculators driving up the price of oil -- not Exxon. Try to grasp the concept.
I'm not disagreeing that Ethanol has a part in the price swing but there is way more to it than just that.
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/sreply/30455/t/point-does-gas-prices-affect--ability--follow-State.html
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/sreply/30455/t/point-does-gas-prices-affect--ability--follow-State.html
Phew....classic case of the answer being somewhere in the middle. Yes, we need to drill offshore and in Alaska. It drives up the supply and gives us a chance at being independent when OPEC feels like being A-holes (most of the time). So what if Exxon is making a ton of money off of everything but oil prices. Profits are profits. Be somewhat socially responsible and support your kick-*** country that allows you to make $10 billion in 3 months. Take a loss on gas prices like the rest of us and enjoy $3 billion a quarter in profits.
</p>
</p>
</p>
Coach34 said:
</p>
they like supply to be strained. Every time an explosion at a refinery shuts it down for a few months, supply goes down, prices go up, and they make more money.
There are many ways to make a car go down the road. Our real problem lies in finding alternatives for other petro-chemical products. That black sludge called crude oil is a very chemically complex substance that is refined into the building blocks for a VERY wide range of consumer products. Simply eliminating the need for petrol gasoline will not solve all of our problems.
it just gives me an excuse to post my signature.
/oh yeah, gas prices don't affect my going to State games much, since I live in Columbus. It would have to get a lot higher to do that.
</p>
/oh yeah, gas prices don't affect my going to State games much, since I live in Columbus. It would have to get a lot higher to do that.
</p>
right now, but it's not because they "like supply to be strained". That is ridiculous, because it's bad for business. They don't want to right now in the US because oil demand is flat. They are building refineries in Asia because the demand is exploding. Due to increased efficiencies in the US, they are able to produce more than they used to from the same number of refineries. What needs to happen is for drilling to open up, creating the need for new refineries due to capacity issues. Right now it doesn't make much business sense to open new refineries in the US. And businesses are not in business to be nice and make everyone happy. They are in business to make money for the shareholders. That's called capitalism.
the problem is the monopoly they have. There is no other realistic alternative. And in a time when the nation is in a small recession, oil companies are making more money than they EVER have. They arent in recession, they are thriving at a record pace. And its driving prices up on everything, makin it tougher on us, while they have record profits for their monopoly.
Truer words have never been spoken. I hate it (because I don't like paying for gas more than anyone else), but there is no reason for them to lower the price. If I were them, I would raise it some more and see just how much people are willing to pay for it.
My cheap *** already car pools to work. Besides going out and buying a more effiicent vehicle, people will still have to buy gas. But at the same time, I am about a year away from not having a car payment and I welcome those days aGAIN.
- Status
Get unlimited access today.