Bunker busters
- Thread starter Howiefeltersnstch
- Start date
If Trump took out the deep centrifuge sites, it shouldn't be considered war.....just a military maneuver to finish the job. Of course the left and a few on the right will claim he went back on his word to involve America in new wars. This just isn't it. Doing this would actually save lives in the long run and may relieve the oppression the Iranian people are suffering under. Just like dropping the A-Bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki actually saved many many Japanese and American lives that would have resulted from a ground invasion.
It sounds like you do not know what the Apollo Affair was. It is widely accepted and all the evidence points to Israel stealing weapons grade uranium from the US. Also, they have been caught spying on us time and time again. In 2019 they got busted spying on the White House. Israel has a right to defend itself, but we should not fight a war for them.
Not to encroach on Mike Tice but my drunk thoughts.
I don’t care about the politics, I truly feel there are people in this country that want the current administration to be wrong or right about a decision to escalate. That doesn’t matter to me because brownie points against a political group pales in comparison to a shitload of people dying as a result of Iran aggressively taking over the region. All that said, here is my non political viewpoint.
Were any of you alive in 2003? This is the EXACT same thing we were sold. Weapons of Mass Destruction evidence? Check Middle Eastern leader with designs to assassinate the president? Check. Regime change and populace will welcome us as liberators? Check. Toppling regimes and nation building has drained so many resources from us over the last 50 years it is absurd. In 2003 it resulted in ISIS. In 2025 it will result in IRIS. If we escalate and continue on this path, mark this post. If 2027 Iran is a thriving Democracy and friend of the west, I will eat my words, but i guarandamntee it will be failed state that spawns multiple terrorists factions that disrupts us and drains resources and honorable American lives. I hope I am wrong. That region is built on religious distrust for 1000’s of years, and not to disrespect the value of religion, but it is a non tangible value that can never be logically ironed out, unless someone comes down and clarifies it.
I don’t care about the politics, I truly feel there are people in this country that want the current administration to be wrong or right about a decision to escalate. That doesn’t matter to me because brownie points against a political group pales in comparison to a shitload of people dying as a result of Iran aggressively taking over the region. All that said, here is my non political viewpoint.
Were any of you alive in 2003? This is the EXACT same thing we were sold. Weapons of Mass Destruction evidence? Check Middle Eastern leader with designs to assassinate the president? Check. Regime change and populace will welcome us as liberators? Check. Toppling regimes and nation building has drained so many resources from us over the last 50 years it is absurd. In 2003 it resulted in ISIS. In 2025 it will result in IRIS. If we escalate and continue on this path, mark this post. If 2027 Iran is a thriving Democracy and friend of the west, I will eat my words, but i guarandamntee it will be failed state that spawns multiple terrorists factions that disrupts us and drains resources and honorable American lives. I hope I am wrong. That region is built on religious distrust for 1000’s of years, and not to disrespect the value of religion, but it is a non tangible value that can never be logically ironed out, unless someone comes down and clarifies it.
I know what it was. It was never proven, therefore it has to be true. Modern logic, especially when you are already biased.
It was never proven we landed on the moon. It was never proven that Kennedy was assasinated. It was never proven the German bombed Pearl Harbor. It was never proven you are a real person. That’s what you sound like. I wasn’t there so it may not be true *** boy. If facts point to something it’s that. Israel stole nukes and tested them without our permission and that’s a fact.
The War Hawks in Washington are circling. I pray this finds a peaceful resolution. We’ve got enough problems of our own to go into another forever war. And blood spilled is blood spilled, someone pays the cost every time. Maybe an internal overthrow can occur. I hope so, let them hopefully figure it out without our help needed.
Except this time there have been inspections on the ground that have proven that the program exists. The Iranians have taken it as far as they can dual use, that we KNOW this time. This isn't US intelligence speculating. They also have never fully cooperated with the inspectors, ever. If it's all peaceful why bury it underground and keep the inspectors from full access? They basically make no bones about what they are doing and knew they would eventually be attacked because of it. The other thing that most people outside Isreal forget is that this is an existential threat for Israel. One bomb could kill a quarter the population there, and most of the country uninhabitable. It's a tiny country area wise.
Nope, they are saying they will do it on their own if they have to. They don't need our troops, and won't if we help them now with what we do best.
As I said, that very well could be true. You could be weeks away for a LONG time and then pull the trigger and in weeks you are there. This makes y'all feel better? It just means they have more to work with when they decide to go.
Like Motodawg said you seem to struggle with the word proven. It has weight when it bolsters your argument but is flexible when it doesn’t. When Colin Powell was holding that vial in front of the entire UN Security Council, we all thought Iraq’s WMD program was proven. I think JSIreland argued it on Genes Page and that’s why he’s a pain in the *** and had to go.
I bet he says it want them that tested nukes in 79 off the African coast (illegally) too
I am starting to think L4Dawg is getting money under the table from Raytheon and Lockheed Martin.
It was one of the theories of the missing uranium from Apollo in the 1960's that Israel ended up with it. It's never been proven, but there are two choices:
Choice A: The theory is wrong, Israel did not steal it, nor did they end up receiving any of it by whatever means. No one can verify whether they really even have nukes today.
Choice B: Israel did steal or receive some of that uranium, and have a stockpile of nuclear weapons. Which means Israel has possibly had nuclear weapons since the 1960's, but has never used one of them. While they've had multiple chances and reasons to use them, and by some people's logic, they are the same or more violent and aggressive than all the other middle east countries.
So they either don't have them, or have opted not to use them. Either way, they don't seem like the bad guys here.
Is there any scenario on the planet where anyone would believe if Iran had gotten to the finish line on a working nuclear weapon that they WOULDN'T have used it already?
I get all that happened 22 years ago. That does not mean it's the same. We had a really really good reason to believe all that in 2003 because most of us were also alive 2 years earlier on September 11, 2001. We were just trying to live life over here when they came knocking.
It's a different scenario now, but if there's even a slight chance of them gearing up for nuclear war I'd still prefer to deal with it ahead of time, not after more US civilians are killed. And if they really do have nukes, it won't be 3,000 US citizens this time.
I don't want war. I believe the president does not want war. But just on the off chance the other guys absolutely will not quit bombing civilians, raping women, and killing babies... If they are just damned and determined to fight with us... I'd rather fight a fractured and damaged bunch of former revolutionary guards in caves in the desert over there, instead of their full healthy weapons arsenal launched toward us.
I think we need to do everything possible to keep Iran from getting the bomb, but my personal opinion is that at the end of the day the powers that be in Iran are more rational than people assume. They understand there is a big difference between supplying short range missiles to useful idiots like Hamas and Hezbollah and giving a nuclear device to a terrorist. The former does not put Iran at risk, but the later would certainly lead to the end of their regime.
I know they talk incessently about destroying Isreal, but that does not mean they would be willing to be a martyr to get it done. They are fine letting others do the dirty work as long as it does not put them at risk.
Osama Bin Laden is a comparable example - he wanted to attack the US, but recruited useful idiots to do it for him. Do you think 9-11 would have happened if Bin Laden would have needed to the fly a plane himself? Forget about it. From the lenghts that he went to to not be found, it was very evident that he was terrified of the thought of being a martry for his cause and dying at the hands of the infidels.
Israel has 9.7M people. Iran has 90M. I think Israel is similar to New Jersey, size wise. One nuke would be really bad.
I join you in hoping so. I guess we can take our chances that they are really just reasonable people after all.
I did not say that we need to "take our changes", I just said they probably have enough sense not to hand off a nuclear device or to not use one themselves unless their survical was in question. That does not mean we need to be ok with them getting one
"proven"
"KNOW"
... says who?
Don't forget what The Who said - "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." YYYYYEEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH (keith moon going nuts)
- George W. Bush, 2002
Okay what about the much more recent times Israel has been caught spying on the us? I also find it fascinating that the only really new revelation in the newly released jfk files was that it was almost immediately mentioned that the Warren Commission should find no evidence that Israel was involved. Kind of a strange thing to say huh?
What's your point on this? We spy on allies. Our allies spy on us.
Israel has a government, and governments are from time to time going to do terrible things and abuse their power. If we are not going to be allies with countries with governments because the incentive is for officials in government to be *** holes at best and evil at worst, we aren't going to have many allies.
They are very rational by the standards of their particular brand of Islam. That is what is the scariest thing about them.
Not sure how to break this to you but virtually every country in the world is spying on us. Even our allies. And we are spying on virtually every country in the world. Even our allies.
Because I read a report released by our government and am interested in the history of the leader of the free world who was shot in office?JFK files? Into conspiracy theory just a bit aren’t you.
I think spying and hacking and stealing state secrets are different things… Israel is not our ally. Israel is not the good guys. Nobody in the Middle East is. Too religious to be trusted. They also almost certain had prior knowledge of 911 too.
That's pretty naive. In a lot of ways.
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Says you the man that sides with Israel because some Zionist preacher told you to.