Clem$on, F$U and Big 12?

[18IsTheMan]

Reading some of the rumors/reports on this. Really doesn't make sense. The Big 12 is about as far behind the SEC/Big 10 in revenue and per school payout as the ACC is. If their goal is to get on a more level playing field with the SEC/Big 10, this doesn't seem to be the path. The current Big 12 deal runs through 2031, so adding 2 more teams would only further dilute the current payout. Just not seeing the huge financial upside here. They might get some more money but would still lag far, far behind the ACC and Big 10. The current Big 12 deal runs though 2031, so they'd still be waiting a while to see any potential payoff. Even so, with the brands of schools in the Big 12, they won't come close to SEC/Big 10 money.

 

[Carolina Doc]

I can't see where the Big 12 offers any advantage. Clemson and FSU should move to the SEC or BiG or simply remain in the ACC.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I can't see where the Big 12 offers any advantage. Clemson and FSU should move to the SEC or BiG or simply remain in the ACC.

It's all up in the air as far as the Big 10/SEC. But, yeah, moving to the Big 12 doesn't seem to offer any distinct advantage to just staying put. Add into it the matchups...do they really want to be playing UCF, Iowa State, Kansas...? At least you have history with the teams currently in the ACC.

 

[muscleknight]

The ACC is the easiest path to the playoffs. As long as UNC and Duke stay the ACC isn't losing its auto bid.

 

[18IsTheMan]

The ACC is the easiest path to the playoffs. As long as UNC and Duke stay the ACC isn't losing its auto bid.

I think they'd have a similarly easy path in the Big 12. They would become the top teams in the conference the moment they joined. Just don't see any significant financial upside. Throw in the crazy travel, boring matchups and it just doesn't make sense.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

I think they'd have a similarly easy path in the Big 12. They would become the top teams in the conference the moment they joined. Just don't see any significant financial upside. Throw in the crazy travel, boring matchups and it just doesn't make sense.

You're forgetting the hate for the ACC which is only growing with all the lawsuits.

 

[18IsTheMan]

You're forgetting the hate for the ACC which is only growing with all the lawsuits.

That's a factor, but the bottom line is $. Why make such a drastic jump as going to the Big 12 if it doesn't really impact bottom line all that much?

 

[gamecock stock]

Clemson, their leaders and their fans, probably feel towards the ACC like we did 55 years ago. Our people did not think things through back then. If these rumors are true, then they are probably not thinking things through either. If you make decisions based on emotions, you usually end up screwing yourself.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Clemson, their leaders and their fans, probably feel towards the ACC like we did 55 years ago. Our people did not think things through back then. If these rumors are true, then they are probably not thinking things through either. If you make decisions based on emotions, you usually end up screwing yourself.

it does seem they are more intent on sticking into the ACC than anything else at the moment.

 

[Lurker123]

it does seem they are more intent on sticking into the ACC than anything else at the moment.

I wonder if it is just another lever to pull in order to escape the ACC. I can't see jumping the ACC for the B12.

But once a crack is opened, I bet an invitation from one of the big 2 comes soon.

 

[gamecock stock]

I wonder if it is just another lever to pull in order to escape the ACC. I can't see jumping the ACC for the B12.

But once a crack is opened, I bet an invitation from one of the big 2 comes soon.

I'm thinking the same. But if history is any indication, the SEC wants new markets. I know some will point to Texas coming in, even though the SEC already had Texas A&M. But Texas is the "big dog" in terms of fan interest in that state. There's a reason why the Longhorns had their own network in that state. That's just not the case with Clemson here and FSU in the Sunshine state. And I say that as one who would not mind one bit if CU came into the SEC. Their path to the playoffs would then become much more difficult.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I'm thinking the same. But if history is any indication, the SEC wants new markets. I know some will point to Texas coming in, even though the SEC already had Texas A&M. But Texas is the "big dog" in terms of fan interest in that state. There's a reason why the Longhorns had their own network in that state. That's just not the case with Clemson here and FSU in the Sunshine state. And I say that as one who would not mind one bit if CU came into the SEC. Their path to the playoffs would then become much more difficult.

No idea how this all will go. Don't really see any new, desirable markets out there for the SEC, though. All the most desirable teams are already in the SEC or Big 10. It's worth noting that the SEC does already have 2 teams each in Texas, Tennessee, Alabama and Mississippi. Adding FSU doesn't give them an additional market, but it does basically lock down the Florida market for them. Same for Clemson. It may not necessarily be just about new markets but increasing control in existing markets.

Could just be about getting a stranglehold on the Southeast. Right now they control dominate the Southeast. Adding Clemson and FSU would give them a stranglehold, with every desirable team in this region.

 

[gamecock stock]

No idea how this all will go. Don't really see any new, desirable markets out there for the SEC, though. All the most desirable teams are already in the SEC or Big 10. It's worth noting that the SEC does already have 2 teams each in Texas, Tennessee, Alabama and Mississippi. Adding FSU doesn't give them an additional market, but it does basically lock down the Florida market for them. Same for Clemson. It may not necessarily be just about new markets but increasing control in existing markets.

I believe the SEC dream scenario would be to bring in North Carolina and Virginia. If they could lock down those 2 big states, they'd smile all the way to TV network headquarters on their way to the bank.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

For all those on this thread who are of the mindset that the BIG 12 is way behind in revenue, you have not been keeping up with current events.
They will not be very far behind in revenue much longer, most likely within the next 6 months.

 

[18IsTheMan]

For all those on this thread who are of the mindset that the BIG 12 is way behind in revenue, you have not been keeping up with current events.
They will not be very far behind in revenue much longer, most likely within the next 6 months.

Big 12 had $470 million in revenue last year. SEC was $825 million. The current Big 12 contract runs through 2031. Don't know what kind of ground they will make up in 6 months, but can't see them coming close to $825 million.

 

[Lurker123]

Big 12 had $470 million in revenue last year. SEC was $825 million. The current Big 12 contract runs through 2031. Don't know what kind of ground they will make up in 6 months, but can't see them coming close to $825 million.

If I understand, he's talking about the naming rights that the B12 is selling.

I don't think that's a huge boost for the B12 over the ACC, as I think the ACC could follow suit if it proved to be such a boon.

 

[KingWard]

Let's see what the Big 12 does with their plan to sell conference naming rights. It could be a game-changer for them. It could also be duplicated by the Big 10 and the SEC, whose "naming rights" would certainly be worth more.

 

[18IsTheMan]

If I understand, he's talking about the naming rights that the B12 is selling.

I don't think that's a huge boost for the B12 over the ACC, as I think the ACC could follow suit if it proved to be such a boon.

Right.

It's reported that naming rights would bring the conference $30-$50 million annually. Increasing their revenue by $50 million is peanuts and does nothing to bridge the chasm between them and the SEC and Big 10. Per school payouts would increase a maximum of ~$3 million. Hardly conference-jumping money.

Also, the NCAA rule that now allows corporate logos on fields might actually decrease the value of a naming rights deal.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Let's see what the Big 12 does with their plan to sell conference naming rights. It could be a game-changer for them. It could also be duplicated by the Big 10 and the SEC, whose "naming rights" would certainly be worth more.

See above.

It is only estimated to bring in $50 million on the high side. That is a drop in the bucket for the $355 million gap between them and the SEC. It would push them decently ahead of the ACC, but you're still only looking at an additional ~$3 million per school, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the current per/school payout gap between the Big 12 and the SEC/Big 10.

Clemson and FSU could probably get a deal for that amount on their own to put a corporate logo on their field with the new NCAA rule.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

See above.

It is only estimated to bring in $50 million on the high side.

I don't know where you acquired that number, but that source looks to be way of base.

"The Big 12 is exploring selling its naming rights to a title sponsor, with potential revenue of hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of the deal, sources told ESPN on Thursday."

I'm not going to "own" the numbers projected since obviously I'm just going by this article, but this could indeed be a game changer. We are all about to witness seismic changes (in my opinon not for the better)

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...-explores-selling-naming-rights-title-sponsor

 

[18IsTheMan]

I don't know where you acquired that number, but that source looks to be way of base.

"The Big 12 is exploring selling its naming rights to a title sponsor, with potential revenue of hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of the deal, sources told ESPN on Thursday."

I'm not going to "own" the numbers projected since obviously I'm just going by this article, but this could indeed be a game changer. We are all about to witness seismic changes (in my opinon not for the better)

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...-explores-selling-naming-rights-title-sponsor

Hundreds of millions OVER THE COURSE OF THE DEAL. It is not hundreds of millions per year. $50 million/year for a 10 year deal or whatever would be hundreds of millions.

How much money could Big 12 members make if conference sells its naming rights?

The Big 12 Conference is reportedly exploring selling its naming rights to a corporate sponsor while also looking into private equity investment.

www.deseret.com

 

[KingWard]

Let's just see. $50 million/yearly wouldn't move the needle, but that boy running the Big 12 is aggressive. He has some entrepreneur in him. No telling what he'll pull.

 

[ZeppelinCock]

I believe the SEC dream scenario would be to bring in North Carolina and Virginia. If they could lock down those 2 big states, they'd smile all the way to TV network headquarters on their way to the bank.

with UNC and UVA you will also be shackled to NCST and VATech

 

[18IsTheMan]

with UNC and UVA you will also be shackled to NCST and VATech

There's allegedly (all things are alleged) that the NC schools have a gentleman's agreement that no man will be left behind.

Of course, Oregon hung Oregon State out to dry in the blink of an eye, so I wouldn't expect much loyalty here either.

 

[SILVERSPUR-rier]

Back when we were adding A&M, I had always thought Rutgers may have been an interesting fit when they were looking to change conferences. This would have given the SEC a footprint into the NY/NJ market area. I also thought if we could have gotten VaTech, that would have been good to add the Virginia/DC/NC area market,

 

[gamecock stock]

Back when we were adding A&M, I had always thought Rutgers may have been an interesting fit when they were looking to change conferences. This would have given the SEC a footprint into the NY/NJ market area. I also thought if we could have gotten VaTech, that would have been good to add the Virginia/DC/NC area market,

Finebaum said yesterday that North Carolina is who the SEC wants. My guess is that Virginia or Virginia Tech is who the SEC would want to bring in with them All that makes sense to me because Sankey emphasizes that the SEC is the only regional conference and wants to stay that way. The Tar Heels and the Cavs or Hokies would give the SEC a contiguous and regional conference. I learned this about UNC after my post yesterday.

 

[KingWard]

Finebaum said yesterday that North Carolina is who the SEC wants. My guess is that Virginia or Virginia Tech is who the SEC would want to bring in with them All that makes sense to me because Sankey emphasizes that the SEC is the only regional conference and wants to stay that way. The Tar Heels and the Cavs or Hokies would give the SEC a contiguous and regional conference. I learned this about UNC after my post yesterday.

North Carolina is the mega-prize remaining in the Southeast. It's not even questionable once petty bias is laid aside.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Not-so-bold prediction: FSU, Clemson and UNC will end up in the SEC.

 

[gamecock stock]

Not-so-bold prediction: FSU, Clemson and UNC will end up in the SEC.

Who is your 4th entry, since there has to be a 4th?

 

[18IsTheMan]

Who is your 4th entry, since there has to be a 4th?

Probably UVA, though they don't move the needle much in any way other than adding new territory.

I should add, I will also be completely unsurprised if the ACC remains intact.

 

[Lurker123]

I keep reqding/seeing where UNC is tied to NC State, and then something that days they are not.

I wonder if that is a hurdle in any way.

Can you imagine if it was more than just those two NC schools "tied" together. Not based on anything but musings.

 

[gamecock stock]

Probably UVA, though they don't move the needle much in any way other than adding new territory.

I should add, I will also be completely unsurprised if the ACC remains intact.

18, I cannot agree that UVA does not move the needle much. They are the 12th largest state in the nation, larger than Missouri and Arkansas, and of course our state. And I believe getting coverage out of the DC area which is smothered by the national media is a big deal. And while it is football that is THE sport, adding UVA to go with UNC would be a big boost to the national basketball profile of the conference to go with Kentucky.

 

[USC2USC]

I believe the SEC dream scenario would be to bring in North Carolina and Virginia. If they could lock down those 2 big states, they'd smile all the way to TV network headquarters on their way to the bank.

I agree with this. And don't thing for a second that Clemson fans don't want to be in he SEC desperately. They do. And if UNC gets in over them, they will meltdown.

Big 12 had $470 million in revenue last year. SEC was $825 million. The current Big 12 contract runs through 2031. Don't know what kind of ground they will make up in 6 months, but can't see them coming close to $825 million.

This only matters in the context of Clemson IF the SEC and B1G are options for them. It seems like its moving towards neither conference wants them. Also the common thinking is the ACC eventually implodes so the Big 12 is looking to aggressively make some moves to, once that happens, firmly cement themselves in the #3 slot behind the SEC and B1G.

 

[18IsTheMan]

18, I cannot agree that UVA does not move the needle much. They are the 12th largest state in the nation, larger than Missouri and Arkansas, and of course our state. And I believe getting coverage out of the DC area which is smothered by the national media is a big deal. And while it is football that is THE sport, adding UVA to go with UNC would be a big boost to the national basketball profile of the conference to go with Kentucky.

One potential hiccup: UNC and UVA are tailor-made for the Big 10 and would get more money there. Not sure why those schools would choose the SEC.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

One potential hiccup: UNC and UVA are tailor-made for the Big 10 and would get more money there. Not sure why those schools would choose the SEC.

Wine and Cheese make good invitees for the B1G

 

[KingWard]

Probably UVA, though they don't move the needle much in any way other than adding new territory.

I should add, I will also be completely unsurprised if the ACC remains intact.

You've pretty much got all your bases covered, don't you?

 

[KingWard]

One potential hiccup: UNC and UVA are tailor-made for the Big 10 and would get more money there. Not sure why those schools would choose the SEC.

They would not necessarily get more money there for all time, though.

 

[KingWard]

Wine and Cheese make good invitees for the B1G

Yeah, that's how they roll at Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. I'll give you Wisconsin for the cheese.

 

[18IsTheMan]

You've pretty much got all your bases covered, don't you?

We're all shooting from the hip here haha

In this brave new world of college football, anything's possible.

 

[18IsTheMan]

They would not necessarily get more money there for all time, though.

That is true. It would probably be about a wash financially, so then I think academic fit comes into play. Simply put, the SEC is not in any way an academic fit for either school. I think we have 4 AAU schools, two of which are more recent additions. All schools in the Big 10 are AAU except Nebraska, I believe.

With UVA bordering MD and NC bordering UVA, adding those schools do what the SEC did by adding the Texas schools, Mizzou and OU in terms of geography and extending their contiguous border.

If you're UVA, taking money out of the equation, what's your incentive for joining the SEC over the Big 10? They offer the one thing the SEC can't. Maybe the SEC wants to boost their academic profile by adding those schools, but I'm not sure what they can offer as incentive.