Clifford Returns
- Thread starter rudedude
- Start date
At the very least this keeps the team from cratering, and allows the young guys to continue to develop. In college football with the continual turnover every year this is extremely important. As a wise coach used to say, better to play a player a game too late than a game too early.
The chances of a true freshman (or anyone else) beating out a healthy Clifford are almost zero. Sean has a multi-year head start on understanding what college defenses are throwing at us, already knows our playbook and has formed the connection with our personnel, etc. The 1500+ snaps he’s played would be a pretty big head start in an open competition unless the difference in physical skills is staggering.
So you’re at a winery without kids (and presumably with your wife) and your hanging out on a college football message board? Talk about not being in the moment.
I assumed the wife was out with the kids and he was enjoying his wine stock. If he's with the wife and they don't have kids he shouldn't be coming up for air for the next few hours.
There won’t be.
I think young guys will play, just enough to what JF thinks will keep one/both from leaving. But the early season tough schedule just sets up beautifully for “didn’t want to throw them in too soon “. Then by November we’re discussing how they could continue to wait to reset with youth.
Next year will be more of a disaster than this year. I was hoping Sean would move on to his life's work. I honestly believe he has regressed over the past two years. Injury or not.... O-line issue or not... If we are going to go 7-5, I'd like to see us do that giving a freshman QB a chance and roll the dice on someone who could be a potential game changer for the program. This is bad bad news. I'm very disappointed.
No way will one of the others beat 14 out for the starting job. It will never happen. 14 is not coming back to sit on the bench.
I like it if it’s to help groom a future starter by game three or four. Less so if otherwise.
Maybe it is me, but I feel like the Penn State community believes Clifford is better than he actually is. Sometimes I even think Clifford is too over confident. I wish that there was QB competition/battle in the off-season (as there should be). But, I don't see that happening. If I'm Christian V. I hit the portal. Clifford could be in crutches and a sling and CJF will play him, so CV won't see the field. I cannot not wait for this show next year - we are in for another long season. I may take a year sabbatical from watching PSU on Saturday's.
I think JF is just an extremely stubborn person and going another direction will, to him, feel like being proven wrong.
Veilleux to the portal - sooner or later. At least we had a look at what a more mobile QB who can make quick decisions and get the ball out quickly can do in this offense. Unfortunately this could be a case of subtraction by addition next season. I don’t see this as a positive as CV could have been a placeholder or more as Allar and Pribula develop.
Before Clifford injury 5-0 and on the way to 6-0.
After Clifford injury 2-5, with losses by 2, 3, 3, 4 and 9 points. Same RB's same Oline. Once Clifford couldn't/wouldn't run opposing defenses could sell out on stopping the RB's. Clifford didn't need to be the leading rusher, he just needed to be able to give the opposing D's something to think about.
A healthy Clifford made a difference. If you think it didn't matter I don't know what to tell you. If the wheels fall off the bus early (no CFP or conference championship to play for) then let the young guys get their baptism by fire. I just think a healthy Clifford give PSU a better chance to win.
After Clifford injury 2-5, with losses by 2, 3, 3, 4 and 9 points. Same RB's same Oline. Once Clifford couldn't/wouldn't run opposing defenses could sell out on stopping the RB's. Clifford didn't need to be the leading rusher, he just needed to be able to give the opposing D's something to think about.
A healthy Clifford made a difference. If you think it didn't matter I don't know what to tell you. If the wheels fall off the bus early (no CFP or conference championship to play for) then let the young guys get their baptism by fire. I just think a healthy Clifford give PSU a better chance to win.
This, exactly.
The idea that Clifford was the problem could only gain traction here- in the house of delusion.
Like Zach Mills, SC has given everything to PS, I admire him, but it’s time to move on. What’s the real benefit??
Please can Penn State also have a good running game next year?
Winning more football games.
I not sure the return of Clifford for a 5th season is good for qb development. This is not profession ball. Five years was enough. As an old coach' "it's time to get on with your life work"
I believe a lot of the grief Clifford has experienced is related to Franklin RPO scheme, that eventually caused even Trace to show tailing seasons from being beat up.
...Hope Yurich has more of a hand in fully shaping the offense now that Franklin has his long term payout.
...hope Cliff has an outstanding year in 22, stays healthy (only running when absolutely necessary), helps coach up the 3 QB's in the wings.
Will PSU go to the playoff next year...most likely NOT. Will OL be vastly improved...most likely NOT.
I remember going to a PSU game when Blackledge was developing as a QB. lost big game to Alabama....wish I had that post.
So let's build up in a way that allows the new QB's to grow.
Keep this thread handy as we see what happens next year.
WE ARE...Penn State
I don’t think he was the problem. I think he was quite good before the injury. But i don’t like this for two reasons.
First, it is very unlikely we are going to have a conference championship caliber team next year. We have some talented young guys waiting in the wings. Why not get them reps and experience and see if one of them can elevate us to where we want to be in the future? Cliff has been good but not great. Let’s see if CV, or Allar, or Pribula can be great.
Second, I have no confidence in Franklin’s ability to manage QBs. He’s shown extreme loyalty to his starter and runs them out there no matter what. People are talking about an open competition or switching QBs if we’re out of contention. There is a 0% chance of the former and I think only a slim chance of the latter.
The thing is the play Clifford got hurt on at Iowa was a sack attempt not RPO. I would say most of the hardest shots he took this year weren't when he was trying to run.I believe a lot of the grief Clifford has experienced is related to Franklin RPO scheme, that eventually caused even Trace to show tailing seasons from being beat up.
...Hope Yurich has more of a hand in fully shaping the offense now that Franklin has his long term payout.
...hope Cliff has an outstanding year in 22, stays healthy (only running when absolutely necessary), helps coach up the 3 QB's in the wings.
Will PSU go to the playoff next year...most likely NOT. Will OL be vastly improved...most likely NOT.
I remember going to a PSU game when Blackledge was developing as a QB. lost big game to Alabama....wish I had that post.
So let's build up in a way that allows the new QB's to grow.
Keep this thread handy as we see what happens next year.
WE ARE...Penn State
First, no one thought we were going to have a conference championship caliber team in 2016 either.
That's why they play the games on the field not on message boards
Second, you may be right on the former, as for the latter I think the chance is more than slim. Clifford has been hurt at some point in games the previous couple seasons. He may well be one more hit from a career ender. If he gets hurt or struggles CJF does not have to worry about Clifford getting pissed if he gets pulled. What is he going to do enter the Portal?
You play to win the games.
I don't think that's accurate. It happens at other programs fairly often, especially at programs that sign blue chip QB's. A prominent example is true freshman Tua at Alabama. He replaced a highly skilled (but struggling) Jalen Hurts.
We should all hope that Allar (or one of the other QB's) puts Franklin in that spot, and further hope that his loyalty to Clifford does not get in the way.
Tua played about about the same role in his freshman year at Alabama that I expect to see Allar play next year (mop up time in blowouts, and a series here and there, unless Clifford gets pulled in a bad game).
Though you say it happens “fairly often”, I think you’ll find fewer examples of true freshmen beating out a 3rd or 4th year starter to open a season.
I too was looking forward to watching Veilleux take the reins next year. Still think, though, that it wouldn't be a good idea to throw a freshman QB into the fire next year. If an experienced QB can't succeed due to such poor OL play, there's no way a freshman QB would adapt to the speed of college football and being constantly under duress. Does nothing for the kid's confidence moving forward.
Would have preferred Veilleux, but would rather have Cliff than Allar/Pribula.
I agree about opening the season. That's more infrequent. Let's hope Allar pushes Clifford. It would be fun to have a frosh QB so good that it's tough to keep him off of the field despite having a veteran starter. That would be a welcome change.
That would be nice, but have you ever seen a back up QB less prepared/developed than Roberson when he took the field? Allar is a different talent to be sure, but given what I saw against Iowa I have no confidence in our coaches to develop an adequate backup let alone a QB with Allar’s ceiling. Hopefully enrolling early and getting under Yurcich’s tutelage will help.
Chris Ganter at Wisconsin in 03 or 04 was similar…it’s not because Joe and his staff weren’t ever able to develop a backup QB…the quality of the backup, and quality of the opponent plays a big factor.
Never and it was inexcusable. Watching that game was as painful as 6-4. Since the university keeps buying Franklin's BS., I have no choice but to hope that Franklin proves me wrong.
Allar can sit and learn like Stroud did for O$U. We are not winning more with Allar as a true Freshman.
That, and people think an RPO is the Q either running or passing. Not the case. It’s 95+% RB running or Q throwing.
Many times a pre-snap read counting bodies in the box.
OL
Yes, in 2023 I assume Allar will be the guy and we will be better than in 2022. He is too young and inexperienced in 2022 to make the team any better than what Clifford can do in 2022. Give him 21 months in the program and by the start of the 2023 season we should be in great shape at QB.
Allar can and should play in 2022 but as a backup. He and Villeaux can duke it out for the #2. If Clifford regresses and is a liability then we need to give him a shot. I am not a huge Clifford fan but I see this as good news. We need an experienced guy to fight through the difficult early schedule including at Auburn and at scUM. Also would want Clifford and his experience for our White Out versus Ohiya.
Cliff is a good kid. He's done everything that's been asked of him...and he's taken a beating along the way. He has come to believe that he still has something to prove. I think he has earned the privilege to give it a shot.
Who am I to question these people?
Live, and let live, my friends.
Who am I to question these people?
Live, and let live, my friends.
Get unlimited access today.