Conference Realignment: Pac-12 looking at SMU & SDSU...
- Thread starter Maroon Eagle
- Start date
At one time, Oregon didn't play baseball. PAC-10 played with the 4 CA schools and 2 AZ schools in the south and added Portland Portland St. & Gonzaga to the north to get 2 6-team divisions.
I feel like the SDSU thing has been floated out there for a while now. I mean... these additions are pretty underwhelming (SMU is maybe the 5th or 6th most popular college team in their own city), but they gotta do something to give some semblance of stability before the Big 12 engulfs their mountain schools.
The Big 12's pro rata with ESPN is only for the addition of existing Power 5 schools, so they actually have an incentive to go after Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, and Colorado.
The Big 12's pro rata with ESPN is only for the addition of existing Power 5 schools, so they actually have an incentive to go after Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, and Colorado.
I would be shocked if the Big 12 doesn't raid at least some of those schools, and possibly Oregon and Washington as well.
Could someone give me the cliff's notes on why the Pac-12 could not or would not raid the Big 12? Since when does the Big 12 have more power than the Pac-12?
And why is UNLV not on their radar?
And why is UNLV not on their radar?
I think the Big 12 schools are afraid if they did move to the PAC-12, what would happen if the Big 10 raided Washington, Oregon and maybe 1 or 2 of the Arizona schools. Big 12 appears much more stable right now (partly because all their desirable schools have already left). I do wonder if the Big 12 is having 2nd thoughts about adding all those AAC schools right about now.
Yeah, understand. But seems like Pac-12 has geography working for it. How many can the B1G really add anyway?
I think if the Big 10 wanted Washington or Oregon, they’d already have them. But it doesn’t appear schools like Okie St, TCU and Texas Tech are confident enough in that to move from a sure thing to a risky move.
Just seems to me like the Pac-12 has the leg up there, in geography, money, history, everything. I don't know why they haven't struck first blood. Air of superiority maybe? Maybe they don't like the idea of a po-dunk OK/TX school that isn't OU or UT. I think I'd have grabbed Kansas by now though, if nothing else for basketball and get a foothold in Kansas City. Texas Tech too, I mean they are way out there in West Texas, they are 'Tech', I mean why not? Oklahoma State has a bunch of money. UNLV is obvious. I think I'd move my HQ there.
I'm also guessing they don't like the 'C' in TCU. Because they are an obvious choice for location alone. Maybe they see potential in SMU again. That's very intriguing. San Diego State? Bleh, I get it I guess, but it's not LA. I don't really think it gains you that much, and I can't even tell you their colors.
Biggest thing is that the Big 12’s media rights are pretty much secure until 2031, so they can offer stability. The Pac doesn’t have a deal in place yet and who knows what theirs will look like with SDSU and SMU.
I agree on UNLV. That should be a Pac target.
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You think they’d have a problem with the ‘C’ in TCU, but not the ‘M’ in SMU?
This is exactly what’s happening. Along with uncertainty on whether the Big 10 might raid the PAC again and the time zone issue (PAC after dark is a media black hole where few people will ever see it). There’s no way the Pac is passing on Big 12 schools for SDSU & SMU. Those are their backup plan after they got turned down.
That's another they really should grab. A lot of people are moving to Boise. But I figure they think they are too cool for them, which again surprises me that they want San Diego State.
I'd love to see the Pac-12 and Big-12 remain separate for at least a while.
When a location's strength is that it lessens the distance from Salt Lake City to their nearest opponent that ain't a strength (just less than 5 hours apart).
Boise is five and a half hours away from Pullman-- and if you're that close to Pullman then that means you're a long way away from people (Seattle excepted).
Yeah, I think Boise’s window closed with Chris Peterson’s departure and with the Big East getting booted out of the Power 6 then splitting into the Big East and the American. They’ve never again really reached the levels where a Power 5 would give them a look. The name appeal just isn’t there anymore.
Pac-8?
Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State
California
Stanford
San Diego State
SMSU
Eeek. TV has done some good things but it's also torn some things apart as well.
Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State
California
Stanford
San Diego State
SMSU
Eeek. TV has done some good things but it's also torn some things apart as well.
It's basically torn down every conference other than the SEC and Big 10. Only reason ACC has held together is the grant of rights. It's still a good conference, but it's becoming more irrelevant every year.
It's more of an m than an M.
SMU is methodist in name only (from the Athletic):
SMU left in late 2019 because they knew the Methodist split was coming and didn't want to be in what the university perceived to be a bad situation. They were sued by its local conference but it was dismissed by summary judgment not quite two years ago.
Good to know. I was actually pretty active in a Methodist church prior to my divorce in 2018 and I remember a portion of our budget going towards SMU programs, endowments, etc., so if they became non-sectarian in 2019, that would have been after I was excommunicated.
I'd love to see an SMU rising. Still think it was criminal what happened to them, while pretty much all their competitors were doing worse. Especially in the day and age we live in now.
I wonder if they know USC will inevitably leave for another conference and are simply trying to fill a hole with anything.
Couple of things on this:
1. Crazy that we're about a decade removed from it being a supposed "done deal" that the Pac-12 would become the most powerful conference in the country by absorbing Colorado, Texas, OU, OK State, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech, effectively disbanding the Big 12. Now, they'll be lucky to remain a power conference.
2. The replies and quote tweets to that Stewart Mandel tweet are 99% just roasting him mercilessly. They're a pretty fun read.
3. This whole thing is like a pro-wrestling storyline where the backstage dealings, swerves, factions, and double-crosses are as entertaining and interesting as the actual sports on the field.
I understand it's a desperation move by them. But adding those two makes their conference worse instead of better. I'm not surprised to hear Arizona St. (and probably a few other schools) are pissed about this. And that may be the holdup as to why it hasn't been announced.
I was really clowning on the Big 12 for replacing Texas and OU with UCF, BYU, Cincy, and Houston, but I have to say, if they add the 'four corners' Pac schools, this would be a solid conference:
Arizona
Arizona St
Baylor
BYU
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Colorado
Houston
Iowa St
Kansas
Kansas St
Oklahoma St
TCU
Texas Tech
Utah
West Virginia
Not an SEC/Big Ten level conference, but it would be on par with the ACC and light years ahead of anything the Pac would patchwork together over the next few years.
Arizona
Arizona St
Baylor
BYU
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Colorado
Houston
Iowa St
Kansas
Kansas St
Oklahoma St
TCU
Texas Tech
Utah
West Virginia
Not an SEC/Big Ten level conference, but it would be on par with the ACC and light years ahead of anything the Pac would patchwork together over the next few years.
I suspect the Big 12 is regretting jumping too soon by adding the AAC schools. A 14-team conference without UCF, BYU, Cincy & Houston and adding Washington and Oregon would be a really strong #3 conference in the country.
I agree. They are obviously scrambling. I just don't know if they have better options.
I don't see how the Pac survives with 8. They're technically still a Power conference, so I don't see them going to FCS, Conference USA, the MAC, or any of the independents. I feel like the Sun Belt is pretty secure in themselves and wouldn't trade a sure thing in the SBC for a gamble that (best case scenario) involves thousands of miles of travel every week, so the Pac would need to poach some MWC or American schools to get to 12 (or at least 10).
| Team | Enrollment | Endowment(M) | Conference |
| Air Force | 4,304 | $99 | MWC |
| Boise State | 25,540 | $151 | MWC |
| Fresno State | 25,341 | $219 | MWC |
| Colorado State | 34,166 | $560 | MWC |
| Hawaii | 19,074 | $484 | MWC |
| Nevada | 20,718 | $469 | MWC |
| UNLV | 31,142 | $389 | MWC |
| New Mexico | 25,441 | $577 | MWC |
| San Jose State | 33,025 | $197 | MWC |
| Utah State | 27,691 | $510 | MWC |
| Wyoming | 12,450 | $747 | MWC |
| East Carolina | 28,718 | $288 | American |
| Memphis | 21,458 | $223 | American |
| South Florida | 50,830 | $889 | American |
| Temple | 37,365 | $873 | American |
| Tulane | 11,722 | $1,430 | American |
| Tulsa | 3,343 | $1,114 | American |
| UAB | 21,923 | $712 | American |
| Florida Atlantic | 29,772 | $227 | American |
| Charlotte | 30,146 | $230 | American |
| North Texas | 42,375 | $211 | American |
| Rice | 7,124 | $6,480 | American |
| UTSA | 34,734 | $277 | American |
| Navy | 4,400 | $320 | American |
As has been said a few times, I think UNLV is the obvious choice. I'm not sure how intertwined the University of Nevada system is, so there could be some sort of stipulation where Nevada would have to tag along with UNLV. After that, I dunno. Colorado State? Maybe pick up a bloc of centrally located American teams (UTSA, UNT, Memphis, Tulsa)?
Now that I've put the list together one idea that intrigues me would be the idea of getting Air Force (from MWC), Navy (from American), and Army (from an independent). I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why they're in different (or no) conferences and/or are football only members in their conferences, but I think getting all of the service academies together would at least give the Pac something to sell to potential media partners. That could just be pollyannaish thinking on my part though.
I think Houston is probably good for the Big 12 and makes sense geographically, but yeah, if they had Washington and Oregon incoming, there's no way UCF and Cincy get an invitation.
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