Does anyone still think Lemonis should be our coach in 2024?

[HuntDawg]

@patdog I have made it no secret that I think you are among the worst baseball posters on the board. Not personal of course, but just my opinion. And this post has done nothing to change that. Reasons to keep Lemonis:

1) Selmon was not prepared for a baseball coaching search;
2) Lemonis won us a national title;
3) Our coaching search would be limited due to #2, and the damage caused to our reputation due to this;
4) He has proven he CAN coach from 2019-2021;
5) He was made to sacrifice his pitching coach, which he did NOT want to do, so he's earned that right;
6) A pretty good freshman class.

People are getting run-ruled all around the country. Just the way it is now with the new zone and clock. Get over it, he's going to be back.

This is not my opinion on whether Lemonis is the best coach for MSU. It's my opinion on what has to happen. And this is not even taking into consideration the buyout.

1. How is this even prove-able? Just because you think it is?
2. I agree— big reason why he needs some rope
3. Disagree. While I’m very much on the leaning side of the fence (while its getting closer for me now) to bringing him back, we aren’t losing face by getting rid of him, especially when seeing the quality of play the past 2 seasons.
4. Disagree. He’s proven he can win with talent. A lot of average to below average coaches have won in many sports on many levels due to talent, not their coaching ability.
5. Agree. I think he was made to do this, which to me gave him the right to finish the season. Not guarentee next season although again i think things point that direction
6. Freshman class is pretty good? Sheesh. Look around the SEC, we claim to be elite. Want to be elite. Look at how some freshman across the board are producing in the SEC. But it’s not about freshman anymore, it’s about the portal as well. We aren’t in the elite level what so ever.

I dont think the pitch clock has anything to do with runs being scoRed.

We’ve lost 6 straight SEC games, going for 7 with a trip to LSU on the horizon. He loses 10 in a row and misses Hoover, he’s gone. I’d bet a good bit of money on it.

 

[HuntDawg]

All indications are he will return

What are these indications?

Outside of you just thinking this?

 

[patdog]

@patdog I have made it no secret that I think you are among the worst baseball posters on the board. Not personal of course, but just my opinion. And this post has done nothing to change that. Reasons to keep Lemonis:

1) Selmon was not prepared for a baseball coaching search;
2) Lemonis won us a national title;
3) Our coaching search would be limited due to #2, and the damage caused to our reputation due to this;
4) He has proven he CAN coach from 2019-2021;
5) He was made to sacrifice his pitching coach, which he did NOT want to do, so he's earned that right;
6) A pretty good freshman class.

People are getting run-ruled all around the country. Just the way it is now with the new zone and clock. Get over it, he's going to be back.

This is not my opinion on whether Lemonis is the best coach for MSU. It's my opinion on what has to happen. And this is not even taking into consideration the buyout.

Coming from you, I take that as a compliment.
1. If Selmons not prepare to make a baseball (or any sport) hire, we hired the wrong AD.
2. What’s done in the past is great, but not relevant to this decision.
3. This is just wrong. Was LSU’s search limited when they fired Orgeron? Was Auburns when they fired Chizek?
4. And he’s proven he can’t in 22 and 23.
5. You’re making this up. None of us really know what happened, but most likely story is he’s trying to sacrifice Foxhall as a scapegoat. But that’s just speculation on my part too. We don’t know.
6. Freshman class is OK. Not nearly as good as some of you are saying it is. Just like the rest of the roster. I don’t see as many posts lately that talent isn’t the problem since it’s plainly obvious talent is a problem.

 

[pcdog2017]

Coming from you, I take that as a compliment.
1. If Selmons not prepare to make a baseball (or any sport) hire, we hired the wrong AD.
2. What’s done in the past is great, but not relevant to this decision.
3. This is just wrong. Was LSU’s search limited when they fired Orgeron? Was Auburns when they fired Chizek?
4. And he’s proven he can’t in 22 and 23.
5. You’re making this up. None of us really know what happened, but most likely story is he’s trying to sacrifice Foxhall as a scapegoat. But that’s just speculation on my part too. We don’t know.
6. Freshman class is OK. Not nearly as good as some of you are saying it is. Just like the rest of the roster. I don’t see as many posts lately that talent isn’t the problem since it’s plainly obvious talent is a problem.

Lemonis had good seasons in 19 and 21. No one can speculate what 20 was going to be like. So he’s had just as many good years as awful years. His credibility is in a tailspin.

 

[HailStout]

We kept Jackie for a third season of absolute disaster. I would hope we have learned our lesson. He too made moves akin to firing Foxhall. We kept him out of some insane loyalty because of what he had done for us in the past. I still love everything Jackie did, but he never should have gotten that last season. Thank you for the national championship, Lemonis. Now get out.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Doesn’t matter anymore, players aren’t locked into the school anymore. They can leave anytime they want to for any reason as it now stands. If they are willing to join this dumpster fire, are you sure we want them anyhow? May as well get a staff that will give them something to play for before worrying about future players. We are less than Indiana baseball now in the SEC West. We look like the bad news bears now. It’s time to end it…

You’re not ever going to have a coach in MS at any of the D1 schools go two straight years without an extension unless they are fired. That’s just the nature of the 4-year contract law. I guarantee you we still want good players to come here, and you have to give the appearance of stabilty for guys that are committing somewhere in 9th / 10th grade. Again, nothing would really change as far as buyouts if it happened.

 

[eckie1]

One of the worst takes this board as seen in quiet a while. I wont even go into the history of the last 5 years or so and what type of program arkansas has been, BUT….

35-12, 16-7 in the sec, currently tied for the most wins in the west and 3rd overall in the SEC. Believe they are ranked inside the top 10 in the polls. Their RPI is inside the top 5 I believe. They could LOSE out, and still make the NCAA field as likely a 2 seed.

I’d be curious to know what your definition of a “good team” is.

Then again he wants to give Hancock, and his 220 average in sec play, credit for “putting the ball in play”

Maybe I should have said not a “great” team. But they’ve got more losses coming their way and aren’t a lock for a National seed. They’ve lost a lot of pitching, they have had some horrendous OOC losses and they finish with SCAR and Vandy.

And if you don’t see the value of putting the ball in play vs. not striking out, you can’t be helped. You should probably reevaluate your level of self awareness and the meaning of “a bad take”.

 

[HuntDawg]

Maybe I should have said not a “great” team. But they’ve got more losses coming their way and aren’t a lock for a National seed. They’ve lost a lot of pitching, they have had some horrendous OOC losses and they finish with SCAR and Vandy.

And if you don’t see the value of putting the ball in play vs. not striking out, you can’t be helped. You should probably reevaluate your level of self awareness and the meaning of “a bad take”.

And out is an out. This has actually been proven by people way smarter than us. Although It drives me crazy to see strikeouts too, its again been proven that’s its just another out. There are times where putting the ball in play is of benefit, but double plays also happen. In general I get your point. However Hancock plays 1b, he was recruited as a catcher yet has rarely played there. I made a post not long ago about how statiscally, even throughout the entire season he’s either the 12th or 13th of 14 possible 1b in the entire SEC. These are facts, go look them up. He’s one of worst 2 1b in the entire league.

We have Hines who will be a top 5 round draft pick, who can play 1b, who we are blocking with this guy. And we have Highfill who’s a freshman who we are blocking playing this guy. He should play, but not daily. It took lemonis 40 games to move him out of the 5 spot to the 7 spot. He should play 1 or 2 out of every 3-4 games we play weekly. That’s all hes Earned We should move on and start seeing what some of these younger players can do.

Not ONLY that… In the SEC this season, of the regulars that have played daily, he’s only better than Forsythe and Highfill. This is as a 5th year player. His OPS is 660, he’s barely hitting above 200. He’s a BIG problem with this team.

I do agree Arkansas has a tough finish. We’ll see how good or great they are as they finish down the stretch. They go 4-2 down the stretch and win today, they are probably getting a national seed. It will play out on the field, however even if they lose all 6. They finish 17-13 in the SEC, they will be in the mix for a host spot and that’s generally considered a VERY good baseball team.

 

[8dog]

Foxhall already being gone doesn’t mean we don’t have to pay him his buyout. I think $3 million for Lemonis and $1 million or $1.5 million each for Fox and Geautreau plus the minor assistants sounds about right.

The crazy thing is that if we don’t fire Lemonis and staff, we kind of have to extend them for recruiting purposes. The extension wouldn’t actually mean anything as far as the buyout, but you can’t send them out on the recruiting trail for guys who won’t graduate HS for 3-4 years when they only have 2 years left on their contracts.

I think thats the right number but really it’s half bc we are gonna have to pay the buyout next year. Thats a sunk cost. So it’s really $3 mill. Then Consider we will probably have to overpay for a PC and guarantee them at least 2 years so that’s another year of buyout.

 

[Seinfeld]

I don’t have a strong opinion one way or another. This has been a disaster but I also have seen Chris Lemonis be a very good coach in the past and I get why we might be willing to give it one more chance with a new pitching coach.

I frankly don’t know what we should do, that’s as candid as I can be.

I'm not too far off from this line of thinking. The problem I keep running into, though, is when I ask myself... even if we do bring Lemonis back for one more rodeo, is the roster going to be anywhere near good enough to even give him a chance to turn this thing around? Personally, I don't see it, and then if the answer is no, I feel like we're just wasting everyone's time and money by doing this all over again next year.

If you had asked me two years ago about what Lemonis could possibly do to get himself fired this soon after a title, I would've said that there's zero chance based on on the field performance. I'll be damned if this dude hasn't found a magical mixture of poor coaching, awful player development, and downright incompetence to make me change my mind though.

 

[We Men]

If he hires a top notch pitching coach and replaces Gotro, at least we would have some sense of optimism and a little bit of hope for next year. See optimism, new football coaching staff.

 

[Indndawg]

And if so, can you give me one good reason he should be? The title was great, but that was 2 years ago. Is there anything about our program today that makes you think he should keep his job?

Absolutely not.

 

[Maroon13]

This State team is very young. Those dropped fly balls yesterday will be outs next year regardless of the coach. The hitting and freshmen pitchers will improve.

You keep Lemonis one more year to keep the freshmen and the continuity.

if you fire Lemonis this year, you probably have a mass exodus of freshmen and you are looking a total rebuild the next two years, at best.

 

[HuntDawg]

This State team is very young. Those dropped fly balls yesterday will be outs next year regardless of the coach. The hitting and freshmen pitchers will improve.

You keep Lemonis one more year to keep the freshmen and the continuity.

if you fire Lemonis this year, you probably have a mass exodus of freshmen and you are looking a total rebuild the next two years, at best.

Freshman?

You’ve got 2.5 freshman playing every day. Mershon, Jordan, and Highfill (when Hancock isnt catching)

You’ve go 2-3 pitchers pitching innings for us.. only 1 pitching real innings.

None of those freshman minus Jordan are playing at an SEC worthy level. To think they’ll just automatically improve is somewhat silly. Also the fact that this staff doesn’t have a track record of developing talent (Hancock, forsythe, many of the arms have all taken steps backwards) not to mention all the guys from last year that didnt take that leap. I wouldn’t bank on this staff developing these guys into much more than what they are.

The only freshman I’d be worried about losing is Jordan. He turned down major money to come to MSU. Our dual armed pitcher also turned down draft money to come here, i doubt we lose either. The rest of the freshman quiet frankly aren’t good enough to mass exit

 

[HuntDawg]

BTW: we dont have a freshman on the staff whose ERA is under 10. Yes 10. In SEC play.

Blame is on Foxhall all you want, but maybe these guys just aren’t SEC material. Way more likely the case, than a pitching coach not being able coach pitching.

Not sure they’d be able to re-located anywhere but the local junior college. Hence why the mass exit of freshman wont happen. They are lucky and happy to be on an SEC roster

Our freshman just gave up 5 earned in 3.1 innings. The era just went up

 

[pcdog2017]

This State team is very young. Those dropped fly balls yesterday will be outs next year regardless of the coach. The hitting and freshmen pitchers will improve.

You keep Lemonis one more year to keep the freshmen and the continuity.

if you fire Lemonis this year, you probably have a mass exodus of freshmen and you are looking a total rebuild the next two years, at best.

You never ever keep a coach to keep players. A mass exodus is probably what this team needs. With a decent coach and the transfer portal, teams can rebound pretty quickly. Plus, there aren’t many guys on this team that would be a major blow.

 

[eckie1]

Should he be our coach tomorrow morning? I’m leaning towards no. What in the 17 was that crap he pulled with Lemonjello right there?

 

[Maroon13]

Freshman?

You named two.

To think they’ll just automatically improve is somewhat silly.

The only freshman I’d be worried about losing is Jordan. He turned down major money to come to MSU. Our dual armed pitcher also turned down draft money to come here, i doubt we lose either.

You doubt.... but dont 100% know.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I'm pretty sure those numbers are inflated. $2.5 for Lemonis and maybe another $1M for Foxhall and Geautreaux combined is closer to the truth. But it doesn't matter. Even if those numbers are right, the question isn't whether we can afford to pay it (we can), the question is whether we can afford NOT to pay it. It's already going to take us at least 2-3 years to dig out of this hole. Another year of this and we'll be the better part of a decade between NCAA tournament appearances.

I think that’s a bit of a reach.

It’s been said before, but this was always going to be the rebuilding year after 2021. What sucks is that we couldn’t get at least a moderately successful season last year due to the injuries. There’s not going to be 2-3 years needed for either Lemonis or someone else to fix this, if either knows what they are doing.

Plenty of offensive talent with 5 to 7 guys coming back out of the regular lineup (depending on what happens with Ledbetter and Clark). New additions / recruits to that will put us on a good track offensively. Lo, Loftin, Dohm, Nixon, Simmons (if healthy), Auger (if healthy), Holcombe, Cade Smith (maybe?) and others will be enough to build an at least serviceable staff, with potential to be excellent depending on injuries, portal and recruiting additions, and the PC hire.

Nothing is going to remotely change the revenue picture that much with MSU baseball. We’re going to sell out the stadium again next season no matter what….so there is no “can’t afford NOT to do it” situation like there would be with a big revenue sport like football.

The most valid question to ask is if its truly worth the $4 -$5 million in buyouts for Lem and Geautreau, or is that money better spent in NIL to attract current baseball recruits to school over the draft, bring in portal guys, and/or retain fringe draft guys like Cade Smith and Kellum Clark for another year….or even spend it somewhere else like football NIL.

It’s a zero sum game, and any 7 figure amount of money that we are flushing down the toilet for a coach in a non-revenue sport to just go away is certainly going to hurt us somewhere else in the long run. We can’t just **** out some more cash to do all the other stuff we need to stay competitive in baseball and elsewhere.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

@patdog I have made it no secret that I think you are among the worst baseball posters on the board. Not personal of course, but just my opinion. And this post has done nothing to change that. Reasons to keep Lemonis:

1) Selmon was not prepared for a baseball coaching search;
2) Lemonis won us a national title;
3) Our coaching search would be limited due to #2, and the damage caused to our reputation due to this;
4) He has proven he CAN coach from 2019-2021;
5) He was made to sacrifice his pitching coach, which he did NOT want to do, so he's earned that right;
6) A pretty good freshman class.

People are getting run-ruled all around the country. Just the way it is now with the new zone and clock. Get over it, he's going to be back.

This is not my opinion on whether Lemonis is the best coach for MSU. It's my opinion on what has to happen. And this is not even taking into consideration the buyout.

LOL

 

[ababyatemydingo]

LOL

Goat calling someone a terrible poster is the epitome of irony

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Just say we're cheap and aren't serious about winning ****. That's the damn truth. Lem ran it in the ditch. Talent level is bottomed out. Coaching is poor. Culture issues. It's a huge **** show.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Just say we're cheap and aren't serious about winning ****. That's the damn truth. Lem ran it in the ditch. Talent level is bottomed out. Coaching is poor. Culture issues. It's a huge **** show.

If its true that there are culture issues or player buy-in issues, then he certainly needs to go immediately. Because there is no coming back from that. But talent is not bottomed out. The latter Polk II years would like a word with you if you think that’s the case.

 

[HuntDawg]

Talent is pretty bad.

when you basically have no one on your roster that would have major roles on other schools in the sec pitching wise, and only 2-3 hitters that would play in other sec lineups.

talent is definitely an issue

 

[Perd Hapley]

I think thats the right number but really it’s half bc we are gonna have to pay the buyout next year. Thats a sunk cost. So it’s really $3 mill. Then Consider we will probably have to overpay for a PC and guarantee them at least 2 years so that’s another year of buyout.

Its not a sunk cost if things improve next year. If the judgment is that he will be fired by next year either way then yeah, of course you go ahead and do it now. But the only way that can be the case is if he has lost the locker room. I don’t know if that is the case. It certainly appeared that way in the first 2 series. Then we showed some signs of life for the next 4 series, and now I’m starting to wonder again based on the past 2 weekends plus Sunday of the Auburn series.

As far as the pitching coach, that’s not more buyout by default. If its a good hire, he may be invited to stay by the next HC just like Geautreau was….or might even be the next HC himself.

 

[patdog]

If its true that there are culture issues or player buy-in issues, then he certainly needs to go immediately. Because there is no coming back from that. But talent is not bottomed out. The latter Polk II years would like a word with you if you think that’s the case.

Polk II only losing season was the last one. And even that one won more SEC games than Lemonis last 2 teams have won.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

Polk II did better than what Lemonis has done since the Natty. The ineptitude Lemonis has shown the last 2 years is Off The Charts. He has shown / proven he has no idea how to maintain a viable SEC Baseball Program. There are too many others available who would do much better so there's no reason to keep Lemonis. We've paid the debt and now it's time to move on.

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

Goat calling someone a terrible poster is the epitome of irony

He would most likely be a national champion in lack of self-awareness. The dude has been banned a million times on this site where it is ridiculously hard to get banned.

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

If its true that there are culture issues or player buy-in issues, then he certainly needs to go immediately. Because there is no coming back from that. But talent is not bottomed out. The latter Polk II years would like a word with you if you think that’s the case.

Polk took us to the CWS the year before he retired and 4 straight regionals before that, so I’m not sure what the latter Polk II years could weigh in on this situation.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

Polk took us to the CWS the year before he retired and 4 straight regionals before that, so I’m not sure what the latter Polk II years could weigh in on this situation.

The damage of Polk II was more apparent in Cohen’s first two years. We went 6-24 in conference play in 2010, this is our worst team since then for sure.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Polk II only losing season was the last one. And even that one won more SEC games than Lemonis last 2 teams have won.

That doesn’t mean those teams were loaded with talent. The 2008 team obviously wasn’t, and those dreadful 2009-2010 teams were full of Polk II recruits. Outside of Ed Easley, Mitch Moreland, and Tyler Moore, there was not much to write home about in those 2005-2010 years from a talent standpoint.

Even 2007 was a product of the 78 mph junkball throwing Justin Pigott pitching a gem in Tallahassee in the winner’s bracket game, and us getting lucky that we were picked over Clemson to host the Super. We got exposed about as bad as anyone ever has in Omaha….and it was all downhill from there.

 

[WrapItDog]

I guarantee you we still want good players to come here, and you have to give the appearance of stabilty for guys that are committing somewhere in 9th / 10th grade.

When we had 4 head coaches in 4 years. We went to 4 Supers and 2 CWS. Can't get less stable than that kind of turnover had head coach.

 

[Perd Hapley]

When we had 4 head coaches in 4 years. We went to 4 Supers and 2 CWS. Can't get less stable than that kind of turnover had head coach.

And thats a big part of our current problem. Recruiting wise, coaching turnover in college baseball doesn’t hurt you on the field until 3 or 4 years after it happens. Those 4 teams in 4 years were still 90% all recruits that were all from just one coach - Cohen.

Anyway, I’m not sure what you’re arguing. We have to fire Lemonis, or we have to extend him without raising the buyout. There’s no 3rd option. We’d risk burning the entire 2026 HS class if we tried to bring him back with only one year left beyond the current recruiting cycle, and may lose some 2025 guys too.

 

[GloryDawg]

Dude, we fired the pitching coach.

I have no idea why I typed pitching. I was delirious from pissness over this team.

 

[WrapItDog]

And thats a big part of our current problem. Recruiting wise, coaching turnover in college baseball doesn’t hurt you on the field until 3 or 4 years after it happens. Those 4 teams in 4 years were still 90% all recruits that were all from just one coach - Cohen.

Lemonis is in year 5. He could have a loaded team now with players he recruited that were in 9th grade and 10th grade when he took over. The previous head coaches turnover recruiting excuse has expired.

 

[HuntDawg]

We dont have to extend him. Kids aren’t committing to Lemonis. They are committing to the University and the SEC. Sure the next staff may have to come in and re-recruit some of the kids to get them to stay, but we aren’t burning up classes.

Plus again it’s not like Lemonis has shown he can get talent to campus.

 

[hailstate19]

hope Lemonis is Packing his bags soon. Good riddance it stinks like baby ****

 

[beachbumdawg]

This State team is very young. Those dropped fly balls yesterday will be outs next year regardless of the coach. The hitting and freshmen pitchers will improve.

Those fly balls should be caught starting at 14u - to say otherwise is asi

You keep Lemonis one more year to keep the freshmen and the continuity.

continuity? You want to continue to suck? 17 that

the freshman can be replaced

if you fire Lemonis this year, you probably have a mass exodus of freshmen and you are looking a total rebuild the next two years, at best.

So what? With transfer portal you can flip a roster quickly

 

[Beretta.sixpack]

I think it's going to be a toss up.....50/50.....the best talent we currently have is young and we have a really good class coming in....there is a good chance to take a leap next year with the right pitching coach and new pitching talent.....again, i think its 50/50

 

[travis.sixpack]

We kept Croom around with one winning season.


Just saying...

We fired Joe Moorhead with a winning record.