Douche

hatfieldms

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I will also say this. My buddy I coach with and I always said that after our kids are in high school we would go back and start a team 8u team and just coach with no kids.
After the last couple of years and dealing with clown as parents there is no way I would do that. I’ll just go coach rec league again for a few months a year
 

The Cooterpoot

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I'm not so concerned about folks being busy, or whether it's structured or unstructured. To me, active is active, and is a good thing. I think it's good to find the things kids are good at, and invest in them. But unreasonable costs are something entirely different, and especially doing it in something where many don't have a future? The shlt doesn't add up.

12U baseball costs at an 'organization' are around $150-$250 a month, outside of uniforms and tournament fees. That's a rec ball season, a lot of musical lessons, karate, golf lessons, tennis lessons, etc., and those still leave you MUCH more time to do.....whatever. And you take those things with you later in life. You can only play so much of the big sports (football, basketball, baseball, soccer) before it's at the point of diminishing returns.

I kept it cheap by doing myself (and not taking money), but that wears on you.
I coached rec for free for 10+ years. Gave free hitting, fielding lessons too. Organized HS camps for free. Moved to coaching college kids after travel ball. Got little pay for that. My own kids played rec and travel. I limited the amount without some off time though. We didn't go to every single showcase. They should play with their friends too.
Dr tried to convince one to give up ball due to an injury. They refused. That's how much they loved it. I'd invest whatever it takes for that. Not everyone can/wants to do that though. So I get it. But to vilify it for your own ideals is also silly.
 

kired

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Fortunately my sons have had no interest in travel ball, but my oldest one decided to at least try out for the local team. So we paid $10 and went to the tryout. They have two teams, I guess and upper and lower level.

There were probably 50 kids there. We show up on time, he walks out to the field. about half of the kids are warming up in the outfield, the other half are sort of standing around the dugout. The “coaches“ are standing out in front of home plate just BSing for the first 30 minutes. Never introduced themselves to the kids coming onto the field or the parents dropping them off.

They finally start the one hour try out after 30 minutes. Each kid gets three or four ground balls and fly balls, and hits 10 pitches. After this intense evaluation, they publish the rosters a few days later and each team had the exact same roster as last year…
 
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mstateglfr

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Around me, and also in the Chicago metro, there are multiple levels of youth club sports.
- You can do the absurdly expensive route if your kid is good enough and you have the money.
- Or you can do the expensive route if your kid is good enough and you have the money.
- Then there is the less expensive route that is still a time commitment and definitely not free, but hardly bankrupting.


For volleyball...
- the absurdly expensive route it thru few select clubs that have national teams which are genuinely good enough to play into July at Nationals. This is $6-10,000 out of pocket, after club fees and travel, depending on the club and where they travel.
- the expensive route is those same clubs and more that have regional teams which do a mix of 4 weekend tournaments and 5 local(within 2 hours) tournaments. This is $4-5,000 out of pocket, after club fees and travel, depending on the club and where they travel.
- the less expensive route is school feeder clubs that play AAU and participate in 5-8 single day tournaments within 3 hours of home. This is $800-1,500 out of pocket, after club fees and tournament expenses.


I have coached multiple club teams and specifically stuck to a club that plays in-state AAU tournaments because I like the idea of making the sport accessible both financially and locationally(all the expensive clubs are in the suburbs, so a drive for many kids that would also struggle to afford the club's fees).
I genuinely don't think spending $800-1,500 is excessive when you consider the cost of practice facility 2x/week for 2 hours each practice, uniform, tournament entrance fees, gas and food at tournaments, and a small coaching stipend over the span of 4.5 months.
Yeah that cost will put the opportunity out of reach for some, and that sucks, but its nearly impossible to make that cost much lower.



Yes, youth club sports can be bankrupting and toxic. Youth club sports can also be uplifting, accessible, and rewarding.
There is more than one way to skin this cat.
 

Maroon13

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Each kid gets three or four ground balls and fly balls, and hits 10 pitches. After this intense evaluation, they publish the rosters a few days later and each team had the exact same roster as last year…

Pretty much the same happened to me this weekend. Volleyball club says, "come to our pre tryout clinic for early evaluation." We get there. The coaches divide the kids up in the same teams as last season and they scrimmage for an hour and half. They already know where they're placing kids.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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I genuinely don't think spending $800-1,500 is excessive when you consider the cost of practice facility 2x/week for 2 hours each practice, uniform, tournament entrance fees, gas and food at tournaments, and a small coaching stipend over the span of 4.5 months.
Yeah that cost will put the opportunity out of reach for some, and that sucks, but its nearly impossible to make that cost much lower.
What happened to all this stuff just being free or almost free? Did towns quit paying for a parks department? Do we no longer have rec centers? Why the 17 is a youth sports league 4.5 months long? And why the 17 can't a few mom's or dad's not volunteer their time to be coaches instead of having to pay someone?

It has just gotten too serious. After junior high, maybe it should. But if you are going to tell me that kids under the age of 12 need this world class competition and coaching, I'm going to tell you we parents are taking it too 17ing serious.

For less than $1000 a year my 9 year old kid competes in what many could consider very expensive sports year around.

--Plays tackle football in the fall (Mid August- mid October).$100

--Get a half dozen golf lessons and play 6 rounds of golf against other kids (walk 9 holes) with an instructor in May and June. $250

--And he gets a season ski equipment lease ($150) and year around passes to two ski areas. One of which provides a bus ride after school to the lodge and two hours of lessons 3 days a week January-March ($350) The other resort gives him free coaching for the air and style team every Tuesday night and Saturday morning and a season pass ($79.) All of this is available for free via scholarship to many of the less fortunate kids in the area.

There's not a chance in hell volleyball should cost more than golf, football, or definitely alpine skiing, but in the name of club sports we have figured out how to do it.
 
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mstateglfr

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Pretty much the same happened to me this weekend. Volleyball club says, "come to our pre tryout clinic for early evaluation." We get there. The coaches divide the kids up in the same teams as last season and they scrimmage for an hour and half. They already know where they're placing kids.
Where are you located?
Club tryouts here happen in July, they start the weekend after Nationals ends. Its completely insane to me, but from what I understand, its quite common across the country at this point- one team moves tryouts and bid offers up, then others in the area do too, in order to compete for the best talent.

^ this is for the top level clubs. The rest hold tryouts in the fall on a random weekend towards the end of HS volleyball season. These clubs are the ones that benefit the most from genuinely evaluating.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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You really have no idea wtf you're talking about as usual. Tuition of $40k a year mostly covered sounds like a 17ing great return on investment. College is completely covered at some smaller colleges. Kids meet big donors/supporters that help them in life. NIL money now too. It pays big to be a college athlete.
I will tell you with 100% certainty that you are not getting $40k a year of value from these smaller colleges... in terms of real value it's only worth what it costs to attend 2 years of junior college and a good public college for 2 years. So more like $4k a year. That degree from Millsaps is not worth anymore than 2 years at EMCC and an engineering degree from Mississippi State. Likely less in most cases.

1.3% of high school athletes get some type of athletic scholarship. 48% of incoming college freshman get some type of academic or community service scholarship or grant.

If you want your kid to do well and pay for college with scholarships, it would probably be better to have them take the time and effort to become an eagle scout than to pay all that money for them to play on the 15u West Mississippi Dynamite Stick Swingers of USSASSA AA Independent Baseball Clubs Of Southern States Association of Consolidated Federations of Sports, LLC.
 

OG Goat Holder

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What happened to all this stuff just being free or almost free? Did towns quit paying for a parks department? Do we no longer have rec centers? Why the 17 is a youth sports league 4.5 months long? And why the 17 can't a few mom's or dad's not volunteer their time to be coaches instead of having to pay someone?

It has just gotten too serious. After junior high, maybe it should. But if you are going to tell me that kids under the age of 12 need this world class competition and coaching, I'm going to tell you we parents are taking it too 17ing serious.
And there it is, on the age. I don't know about volleyball, but baseball/soccer are the biggest offenders in starting under 12. They start around 6/7 now! It's absolutely insane. Listening to parents talk about "we need to take Johnny's skill to the next level". Holy hell.

For less than $1000 a year my 9 year old kid competes in what many could consider very expensive sports year around.

--Plays tackle football in the fall (Mid August- mid October).$100

--Get a half dozen golf lessons and play 6 rounds of golf against other kids (walk 9 holes) with an instructor in May and June. $250

--And he gets a season ski equipment lease ($150) and year around passes to two ski areas. One of which provides a bus ride after school to the lodge and two hours of lessons 3 days a week January-March ($350) The other resort gives him free coaching for the air and style team every Tuesday night and Saturday morning and a season pass ($79.) All of this is available for free via scholarship to many of the less fortunate kids in the area.

There's not a chance in hell volleyball should cost more than golf, football, or definitely alpine skiing, but in the name of club sports we have figured out how to do it.
Yeah there's just a few sports who have really taken advantage of the money train. For boys it's definitely baseball and soccer, girls it seems to be soccer and volleyball. In the name of soccer especially, it seems that they've figured out anyone can play it, no matter the athletic ability, so they hook them early. Baseball seems to be the same, but a notch higher, especially in MS being such a baseball state.

Not everyone CAN play basketball (due to the ability needed) and not everybody wants to play football due to the contact. So baseball/soccer attracts all the suburban morons to pay for 'training' for Johnny to be an athlete.
 
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Maroon13

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Where are you located?
Club tryouts here happen in July, they start the weekend after Nationals ends. Its completely insane to me, but from what I understand, its quite common across the country at this point- one team moves tryouts and bid offers up, then others in the area do too, in order to compete for the best talent.

^ this is for the top level clubs. The rest hold tryouts in the fall on a random weekend towards the end of HS volleyball season. These clubs are the ones that benefit the most from genuinely evaluating.
MS; VB club tryouts start as soon as school ball ends. In our case, that is first or second week of Oct.

But our club holds summer and fall "clinics". It is my opinion these clinics are a search for new talent and to keep the cash flowing in the two months off.

Btw, my daughters team played at nationals in Indy in 2022. We didnt lose a regular season game playing mostly in the SE. we went up there and got creamed our first two days but won some in consolation pool play day 3-4. In 2023, our club had two teams make it to nationals in MN. One team got creamed. One did well. However yeah...it seems the Midwest teams grow em a little taller. Y'all are tough.
 
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mstateglfr

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What happened to all this stuff just being free or almost free? Did towns quit paying for a parks department? Do we no longer have rec centers? Why the 17 is a youth sports league 4.5 months long? And why the 17 can't a few mom's or dad's not volunteer their time to be coaches instead of having to pay someone?

It has just gotten too serious. After junior high, maybe it should. But if you are going to tell me that kids under the age of 12 need this world class competition and coaching, I'm going to tell you we parents are taking it too 17ing serious.

For less than $1000 a year my 9 year old kid competes in what many could consider very expensive sports year around.

--Plays tackle football in the fall (Mid August- mid October).$100

--Get a half dozen golf lessons and play 6 rounds of golf against other kids (walk 9 holes) with an instructor in May and June. $250

--And he gets a season ski equipment lease ($150) and year around passes to two ski areas. One of which provides a bus ride after school to the lodge and two hours of lessons 3 days a week January-March ($350) The other resort gives him free coaching for the air and style team every Tuesday night and Saturday morning and a season pass ($79.) All of this is available for free via scholarship to many of the less fortunate kids in the area.

There's not a chance in hell volleyball should cost more than golf, football, or definitely alpine skiing, but in the name of club sports we have figured out how to do it.
Wow, a lot to unpack.

1- Has it ever been free or almost free? I played sports in the 80s and 90s and it was anything but free or almost free back then. Baseball, basketball, and soccer- house leagues werent free or almost freen and travel leagues definitely werent free.
Refs, equipment, facilities, etc all cost money. That money either comes from taxes or sign up fees.

2- I dont think towns have quite paying for a parks department entirely, but see the last sentence above- funding comes from taxes or sign up fees. So if city/public leagues cost a lot of money, then little funding is coming from taxes.

3- Rec centers exist, but from what I have read and seen, they are not well staffed/funded and are more of a spot to go for unstructured pickup basketball and e-sports, rather than a place to go for structured quality coaching.

4- Why wouldnt a tryout league be 4.5 months long? In my example, its usually 6 or 7 tournaments on Saturdays, and the rest is practice. 2 hours twice a week where the girls get good cardio, learn healthy communication, practice accountability and focus, and get to shut off all the drama in their lives and focus on something they have a passion for.
That practice time is whats really important to me- giving teens a chance to learn communication and accountability skills while also getting exercise? Thats a no brainer to me.

5- Parents can volunteer coach, and do. The YMCA league that used to exist was parent coached. There are multiple house leagues run by private volleyball clubs and those are all parent coached. There are a couple AAU focused clubs that are also parent coached.
I know all the parents of the teams my oldest daughter has played on over the last 4 years(8th grade thru current 11th), both HS teams and club teams, and I dont want any of them coaching her.
First off, she wouldnt improve because they lack depth of knowledge about the game and her team would be at a level that exceeds any of those parent's ability. Secondly, I dont think the parents would successfully manage personalities. Third, if they wanted to coach, they would. They choose not to learn the game's complexities and they choose not to apply/volunteer.
Parent volunteer coaching works well at the 4th and 5th grade levels. Maybe 6th. Once you get to 7th though, unless the team is brand new to volleyball, a random parent volunteer coach will likely be out of their depth and will struggle to identify and correct poor form, or will struggle to teach higher level concepts on offense.

6- You do acknowledge that maybe after Jr High it should be more serious. I would argue that Jr High is a time when there can be both serious and intro tracks for sports. Some kids are being introduced to a sport in 7th or 8th grade, and thats awesome. Others have played it for 3 years and should be encouraged to continue to improve, if they love the sport. That doesnt mean kids who have a solid understanding and talent for a game should play against the kids that are just learning the basics. That doesnt challenge the experienced kid and doesnt encourage the new kid.
Multiple types of leagues are the obvious answer. And reality is that more challenge = higher cost. It doesnt need to be stupidly expensive to be challenging, but it will cost more than an introductory rec house league.

7- Many park districts around me have house leagues. My town has one for 8-9 year olds and 10-11 year olds. They dont go older because lack of interest in house leagues at older ages and lack of willing coaches at older ages. <--this is directly from the current Director of Parks and Rec.






Its great that you have found opportunities for your kids that are enjoyable and inexpensive.
I can tell you, after having helped run a volleyball club that was as bare bones as it gets, that the unfortunate reality is it appears club volleyball is more expensive than your kid's best life.
- We charged $450 per girl at the older level and $415 per girl at the younger level(under 12).
- Our volleyballs, poles, nets, buckets, etc were all borrowed from the feeder high school, which kept costs down.
- Each team practiced 2x per week for 2 hours at a time. The gym space was the least expensive we could find, its cheaper than any of the surrounding school districts rent gym space for.
- Tournaments were $75-125 per tournament.
- Uniforms were $50.

Take 11 girls, thats $4950 to work with.
- $550 for uniforms
- $700 for tournaments
- $2520 for gym space at $35/hour for 36 practices
- $1180 for a knowledgeable and experienced coach, which comes out to $10/hour between practices and tournaments.

The only reason it is possible at this low cost is because equipment is lent out.
Once a family adds in cost of gas and food at tournaments thru the season, you get to $800-1000 in total cost.



If you can find a parent to volunteer their time, it drops the cost by $100 per kid. So its now $700-900 in total cost between uniform, practice and tournament costs, and gas and food.
And again, finding a parent that is willing to volunteer 120 hours of their time to practices and tournaments AND know how to coach the game at a level that will push kids, is an extremely rare thing.
 

mstateglfr

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MS; VB club tryouts start as soon as school ball ends. In our case, that is first or second week of Oct.

But our club holds summer and fall "clinics". It is my opinion these clinics are a search for new talent and to keep the cash flowing in the two months off.

Btw, my daughters team played at nationals in Indy in 2022. We didnt lose a regular season game playing mostly in the SE. we went up there and got creamed our first two days but won some in consolation pool play day 3-4. In 2023, our club had two teams make it to nationals in MN. One team got creamed. One did well. However yeah...it seems the Midwest teams grow em a little taller. Y'all are tough.
Summer and fall clinics definitely exist, in part, to keep the lights on.
Mine still goes to a few at a club she played at last year because she likes the atmosphere, likes the coaching staff, and gets a good workout in. That, to me, is money well spent since I dont view the clinic costs as too expensive.

But yeah, those clinics are also for sure a way to retain talent and get a look at new talent. Private clubs are a business- they would be foolish not to try and pull in talent during the offseason. Talent = success = more talent wants to go = more brand awareness = more money.

Anyways, I really like that tryouts are after HS season. It always bugs me that the elite clubs select their teams in July since so much can change between July and mid-November when club teams start practice. In those 4 months, kids develop a bunch during the HS season. I am at HS vball practice every weekday for 3 hours- I see the development. But its after club tryouts.
Clubs claim the early tryouts help them lock in their travel arrangements, better airline costs, etc. Its total BS and those summer tryouts happen only because the clubs made it an arms race to try and hold tryouts first.
This past July, 2 elite clubs set their 17U tryouts on the same date and time. I chuckled at that because I knew which would eventually have to flinch, and a few days later they did.
 
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The Cooterpoot

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I will tell you with 100% certainty that you are not getting $40k a year of value from these smaller colleges... in terms of real value it's only worth what it costs to attend 2 years of junior college and a good public college for 2 years. So more like $4k a year. That degree from Millsaps is not worth anymore than 2 years at EMCC and an engineering degree from Mississippi State. Likely less in most cases.

1.3% of high school athletes get some type of athletic scholarship. 48% of incoming college freshman get some type of academic or community service scholarship or grant.

If you want your kid to do well and pay for college with scholarships, it would probably be better to have them take the time and effort to become an eagle scout than to pay all that money for them to play on the 15u West Mississippi Dynamite Stick Swingers of USSASSA AA Independent Baseball Clubs Of Southern States Association of Consolidated Federations of Sports, LLC.
Try Notre Dame. And there are a ton of smaller schools (D1 to NAIA) that have great education.
To each their own, but again, there are better situations. There are schools that don't give much scholarship money but have a fund to pay off each students loans (education and board only). Ivy League schools have some of that as well. Then, you've also got education scholarships if you have good grades/scores. There's incentive to be great students.
My advice, if you don't want to commit to the time and money, don't. Good programs will tell you you're wasting you time if that's the approach. They aren't the "take anyone's money" programs. They can offer lesser skilled/costly options too.
We always emphasized all of this was to be a means for high education. Sports itself doesn't generally provide a living. It's about education and meeting people.
 
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Herbert Nenninger

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Fortunately my sons have had no interest in travel ball, but my oldest one decided to at least try out for the local team. So we paid $10 and went to the tryout. They have two teams, I guess and upper and lower level.

There were probably 50 kids there. We show up on time, he walks out to the field. about half of the kids are warming up in the outfield, the other half are sort of standing around the dugout. The “coaches“ are standing out in front of home plate just BSing for the first 30 minutes. Never introduced themselves to the kids coming onto the field or the parents dropping them off.

They finally start the one hour try out after 30 minutes. Each kid gets three or four ground balls and fly balls, and hits 10 pitches. After this intense evaluation, they publish the rosters a few days later and each team had the exact same roster as last year…
I’m guessing you’re referring to the Rangers and Titans. And yes, I could definitely see those teams being mostly pre-determined before the tryouts.
 

turkish

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This travel, club, aau, or whatever crap has become completely toxic. And it's our own fault as parents.

I've railed on it before, but I specifically left the suburbs of Dallas several years ago because having two boys that were under 6 at the time, my future was written. 3 seasons of various travel teams (no matter the talent level since even the b & c level players get to play less competitive travel teams) for each kid throughout the year. $10's of $20's of thousands of dollars a year spent on said activities. And no time for anything else... That's the life all my friends were living.


Anyhow, fast forward to this weekend. I don't want to go TLDR, but let's just say I saw it all in action this weekend.

So here's the moral. Your 10u kids will likely never be close to good enough to make the pros or college at any sport. You are spending gobs of time and money to teach them the worst attributes of sports (that money, resources, and winning are more important than teamwork, having fun, and being sportsman.) Because of how much you spend in time and money, you take it way to serious and are legitimately losing it over youth sports.

It's an absolute plague. Don't be a part of it if you have other options. If your kids are playing in this stuff, especially if you are coaching, make sure you are not part of the problem.

Pro tip... you are absolute idiots if you have your 8-9 year old football team ride to a game a couple of hours away on a chartered bus. What's wrong with Mom's SUV your spending $1250 a month on for the next 84 months? And your club team doesn't need it's own cheerleaders and concession stand you take with you in road games... There's more to life than what should be an actual kids game. Like making sure your kids are at or above grade level math.
My little Jaxxynn would tell you his case full of World Series rings are worth every penny. I wish I could’ve done this as a kid!!!1!
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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Try Notre Dame. And there are a ton of smaller schools (D1 to NAIA) that have great education.
A diploma from Notre Dame is worth less than if I framed the first square of toilet paper that I wiped my åss with after a long night of tequila and tamales in a Tijuana whoréhouse.

17 Notre Dame. Don't bring that shìt to me.*

But back to the point. Small private schools may cost $40,000 a year, but they are rarely worth it... with maybe a couple dozen exceptions out of thousands.
 

mstateglfr

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A diploma from Notre Dame is worth less than if I framed the first square of toilet paper that I wiped my åss with after a long night of tequila and tamales in a Tijuana whoréhouse.





On the point of small college costs- I can absolutely see the benefit in attending a smaller private college if the atmosphere aligns with how I learn best. If I am going to be lost in lecture hall classes surrounded by 349 of my peers, but a smaller class of 15 will help me learn the concepts, then there is definitely an argument to be made for that being financially worthwhile.
...whether that is worth $30K/year more than a public university is questionable. But most(all so far) smaller private university I have looked into(probably 30 by now) charge significantly less than $40k, even though the advertised price is that level or higher.

My oldest is a Jr in HS and prepping for the ACT next month, and has been to a few college recruiting meetings during the school day so far. Its really wild to try and sift thru an intentionally muddied process.
Yesterday she met with University of Chicago and Grinnell College. Grinnell is a small college about 1 hour away that has high academic standards, low admission rate, and was listed as a 'New Ivy' or some crap like that. Anyways, thru talking about the meetings, the Grinnell rep was basically pushing how their reputation is so valuable. Meanwhile, 17ing University of Chicago focused on personality traits that are needed to succeed if accepted. Its hilarious to me since a top tier worldclass university isnt trying to push their reputation, but the small regional college has to since thats what they can hang their hat on. And in the end, go almost anywhere in the country outside of this state and nobody will give a 17 that you graduated from Grinnell College. $58k listed tuition yearly, high academics and low acceptance, high liberal arts ranking, and basically nobody will care.
 
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Seinfeld

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I will tell you with 100% certainty that you are not getting $40k a year of value from these smaller colleges... in terms of real value it's only worth what it costs to attend 2 years of junior college and a good public college for 2 years. So more like $4k a year. That degree from Millsaps is not worth anymore than 2 years at EMCC and an engineering degree from Mississippi State. Likely less in most cases.

1.3% of high school athletes get some type of athletic scholarship. 48% of incoming college freshman get some type of academic or community service scholarship or grant.

If you want your kid to do well and pay for college with scholarships, it would probably be better to have them take the time and effort to become an eagle scout than to pay all that money for them to play on the 15u West Mississippi Dynamite Stick Swingers of USSASSA AA Independent Baseball Clubs Of Southern States Association of Consolidated Federations of Sports, LLC.
I don’t have much of a dog in this hunt because while my wife and I decided years ago that we weren’t putting our family through this travel/meets BS, I’m fine with people blowing hard earned money however they want to blow it.

Over the last 6 years of rec league sports, however, there are two things that have always stuck out to me

1) The parents that can’t wait to casually drop in a comment about little Jimmy or Chloe “doing the travel ball thing” this year as if it’s some sort of crowning achievement. All it says to me is that you’ve now succeeded in spending $10k for your kid to be mediocre(at best) compared to $100 for rec ball

2) Of the 1.3% of HS kids getting scholarships, I guaran-damn-tee that 99% of those got them from genetics, not world class travel ball coaching
 
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OG Goat Holder

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1) The parents that can’t wait to casually drop in a comment about little Jimmy or Chloe “doing the travel ball thing” this year as if it’s some sort of crowning achievement.
STATUS - it's as murrican as wokeness

suburban parents get off on that shlt
 

johnson86-1

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On the point of small college costs- I can absolutely see the benefit in attending a smaller private college if the atmosphere aligns with how I learn best. If I am going to be lost in lecture hall classes surrounded by 349 of my peers, but a smaller class of 15 will help me learn the concepts, then there is definitely an argument to be made for that being financially worthwhile.
...whether that is worth $30K/year more than a public university is questionable. But most(all so far) smaller private university I have looked into(probably 30 by now) charge significantly less than $40k, even though the advertised price is that level or higher.
My oldest is a Jr in HS and prepping for the ACT next month, and has been to a few college recruiting meetings during the school day so far. Its really wild to try and sift thru an intentionally muddied process.
Yesterday she met with University of Chicago and Grinnell College. Grinnell is a small college about 1 hour away that has high academic standards, low admission rate, and was listed as a 'New Ivy' or some crap like that. Anyways, thru talking about the meetings, the Grinnell rep was basically pushing how their reputation is so valuable. Meanwhile, 17ing University of Chicago focused on personality traits that are needed to succeed if accepted. Its hilarious to me since a top tier worldclass university isnt trying to push their reputation, but the small regional college has to since thats what they can hang their hat on. And in the end, go almost anywhere in the country outside of this state and nobody will give a 17 that you graduated from Grinnell College. $58k listed tuition yearly, high academics and low acceptance, high liberal arts ranking, and basically nobody will care.
This is really off topic, even for me, but the only reason I have heard of Grinell is because of a story about the development of the integrated circuit. Really good story that put together a narrative tying whatever protestant religion was prominent to the attitude of the guy that was one of the coinventors of the integrated circuit (that I think founded Intel?). And I can't for the life of me think of what book the story was in or who wrote it. Seems like a Malcolm Gladwell type story but I can't find it with some internet searches.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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This is really off topic, even for me, but the only reason I have heard of Grinell is because of a story about the development of the integrated circuit. Really good story that put together a narrative tying whatever protestant religion was prominent to the attitude of the guy that was one of the coinventors of the integrated circuit (that I think founded Intel?). And I can't for the life of me think of what book the story was in or who wrote it. Seems like a Malcolm Gladwell type story but I can't find it with some internet searches.
Huh, I'll have to Google a bit for this.

Usually if someone has heard of Grinnell, it's because of the school's basketball team. They got 'famous' about 15 years ago when ESPN came to town and actually televised a d3 game. Then about 10 years ago a kid in the team broke the single fame scoring record. Last year the team shot only 3pters for an entire game.
Really odd stuff, even for a smart tiny d3 school.
They used to do these hockey line changes for subbing. Like play for 3 minutes and bust a lung, then sit. Repeat.
 

johnson86-1

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I don’t have much of a dog in this hunt because while my wife and I decided years ago that we weren’t putting our family through this travel/meets BS, I’m fine with people blowing hard earned money however they want to blow it.

Over the last 6 years of rec league sports, however, there are two things that have always stuck out to me

1) The parents that can’t wait to casually drop in a comment about little Jimmy or Chloe “doing the travel ball thing” this year as if it’s some sort of crowning achievement. All it says to me is that you’ve now succeeded in spending $10k for your kid to be mediocre(at best) compared to $100 for rec ball

2) Of the 1.3% of HS kids getting scholarships, I guaran-damn-tee that 99% of those got them from genetics, not world class travel ball coaching

I am amazed by how much money some people spend on travel sports, but I'm even more amazed by how much time they're willing to spend on it. The people spending thousands of dollars traveling every year for travel sports when I'm pretty sure their kids are going to have to take out student loans to go to college seem somewhat crazy to me, but I get overspending for your kids so they can have experiences you think are good. But I'm baffled at what experiences people give up in exchange for travel ball.

No musical instruments, no robotics, no scouts. All those either conflict with practices or realistically there just isn't time for them. Hunting or fishing? You can probably fit in one or two weekends when there aren't sports. Church stuff? Sure, as long as it doesn't interfere with practice or tournaments and of course probably can't make it on one of those weekends where you are squeezing in hunting or fishing. We've friends sell boats because they weren't using them anymore because they are traveling so many weekends when it's warm. Time is limited and everything is a tradeoff, and I'm sure some parents really want nothing more than to spend weekends with their kids on the road and at ball fields. But we got to play sports and go boating growing up and took music lessons and were regularly in church. Just seems like the price in time and foregone activities is crazy at this point.
 

mcdawg22

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Sep 18, 2004
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I am amazed by how much money some people spend on travel sports, but I'm even more amazed by how much time they're willing to spend on it. The people spending thousands of dollars traveling every year for travel sports when I'm pretty sure their kids are going to have to take out student loans to go to college seem somewhat crazy to me, but I get overspending for your kids so they can have experiences you think are good. But I'm baffled at what experiences people give up in exchange for travel ball.

No musical instruments, no robotics, no scouts. All those either conflict with practices or realistically there just isn't time for them. Hunting or fishing? You can probably fit in one or two weekends when there aren't sports. Church stuff? Sure, as long as it doesn't interfere with practice or tournaments and of course probably can't make it on one of those weekends where you are squeezing in hunting or fishing. We've friends sell boats because they weren't using them anymore because they are traveling so many weekends when it's warm. Time is limited and everything is a tradeoff, and I'm sure some parents really want nothing more than to spend weekends with their kids on the road and at ball fields. But we got to play sports and go boating growing up and took music lessons and were regularly in church. Just seems like the price in time and foregone activities is crazy at this point.
Academics take precedence to our coaches. My daughter had missed 2 games for robotics comp and chorus. The coach told us school comes first.
 
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00Dawg

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My exposure to girl's volleyball was short, but enjoyable while the games were being played. We went the YMCA way for a single season in 6th grade, and our daughter lucked into a coach that had played in college (D2, I think). They got better every game, and were second in the league by the end. We apparently got what we paid for with low league fees when whomever made the season-ending tournament mis-seeded the bracket, so they technically finished in a tie for third after facing the by-far #1 team in the semifinals.

She was good enough and tall enough (not quite 5'8") that she tried out for her school's junior high team with some confidence. Unfortunately, not a single coach took a moment to tell her that they required overhand serves (not sure that is actually a rule for the junior high games or if they were just saving themselves work later when it comes into play in high school) or ask her about how long she'd been playing, so while she was the only girl to land all 6 serve attempts, she was also the last one cut. If there was ever an indicator you had a potential raw talent to coach up, I would think that tryout was it, but even with no roster limit, they weren't interested.
 

OG Goat Holder

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I am amazed by how much money some people spend on travel sports, but I'm even more amazed by how much time they're willing to spend on it. The people spending thousands of dollars traveling every year for travel sports when I'm pretty sure their kids are going to have to take out student loans to go to college seem somewhat crazy to me, but I get overspending for your kids so they can have experiences you think are good. But I'm baffled at what experiences people give up in exchange for travel ball.

No musical instruments, no robotics, no scouts. All those either conflict with practices or realistically there just isn't time for them. Hunting or fishing? You can probably fit in one or two weekends when there aren't sports. Church stuff? Sure, as long as it doesn't interfere with practice or tournaments and of course probably can't make it on one of those weekends where you are squeezing in hunting or fishing. We've friends sell boats because they weren't using them anymore because they are traveling so many weekends when it's warm. Time is limited and everything is a tradeoff, and I'm sure some parents really want nothing more than to spend weekends with their kids on the road and at ball fields. But we got to play sports and go boating growing up and took music lessons and were regularly in church. Just seems like the price in time and foregone activities is crazy at this point.
You forget the most important thing - it's entertainment. They like it. And I get it, it's captivating.
 

OG Goat Holder

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She was good enough and tall enough (not quite 5'8") that she tried out for her school's junior high team with some confidence. Unfortunately, not a single coach took a moment to tell her that they required overhand serves (not sure that is actually a rule for the junior high games or if they were just saving themselves work later when it comes into play in high school) or ask her about how long she'd been playing, so while she was the only girl to land all 6 serve attempts, she was also the last one cut. If there was ever an indicator you had a potential raw talent to coach up, I would think that tryout was it, but even with no roster limit, they weren't interested.
Crazy! Lazy, lazy coaches. They don't even realize that they are limiting themselves.

While I think it's hard to overlook players in football and basketball these days, it's EXTREMELY easy to do it with these club sports. All you have to do is look beyond the clubs.
 

ChatGPT

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What happened to all this stuff just being free or almost free? Did towns quit paying for a parks department? Do we no longer have rec centers? Why the 17 is a youth sports league 4.5 months long? And why the 17 can't a few mom's or dad's not volunteer their time to be coaches instead of having to pay someone?

The cities have leaned in hard as part of the problem. Take Flowood and Northwest Rankin for example. Liberty Park in Flowood is immaculate. Turf infields, smooth outfields, landscaping, nice facilities (dugouts, bathrooms, & concessions), and plenty of parking. That's city money and that place is there to turn a profit for Flowood. Yeah it's under the Parks Department, but it ain't remotely a public park. The NWRAA fields don't have city money. The fields flood when it rains, concessions are a tin shed, the parking lot is too small and half gravel/dirt, there are holes in the bases and mounds, and if you make it out without a kid breaking an ankle in the outfield it's a win. It's volunteer run and they do their best, but the money just isn't there. The soccer complexes are of similar disparity, but we've only ever done baseball.

So the problem is that the NWRAA is the only one that offers a rec league. Yeah you have those that are way too into their kids athletic lives and start travel teams in t-ball. Yes, that's right... travel t-ball. But what most often happens is as the kids age up they just migrate to private teams because their parents are willing to spend a little extra money to spend their time at a much nicer facility. By the time you're at 11-12 rec you may only get like 5 or 6 teams in the entire league. Right now there are nine 11u and eight 12u teams from Brandon playing in Grand Slam. Last year in 9-10 kid pitch there were 8 rec teams in NWRAA. Played every team twice so 14 games. They gave every team a dozen game balls to last the whole season plus the end of the season tournament, so I had to buy more baseballs. The catchers gear provided was unusable, so I had to buy catchers gear. You got a hat and jersey for signing up so your still on the hook for pants and a helmet just like a private team. So honestly, if you can afford a little bit more money to be on a team that just plays in the local tourneys at Pearl, Brandon, Ridgeland, or Flowood every weekend it's totally worth it. Now there are definitely some teams that bring in guest players or play down a league so they can win a ring, but I've found a good number of them are just people who got to know each other in rec and decided to get a team together to play somewhere nicer. I wish it were different, but it looks like that's the way it's going. North Jackson Youth Baseball was huge when I grew up. This last all star season I don't think there was a rec team at NWRAA that wouldn't have run ruled them.

TLDR: Rec leagues are dying because they are usually non-profit organizations that don't get near enough funding.
 
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Bulldog45

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TLDR: Rec leagues are dying because they are usually non-profit organizations that don't get near enough funding.
I would add that ironically the non-profit rec leagues are being replaced in large part by so-called non-profit organizations that charge an arm and a leg. That aside, agree with what you said about the teams that just do it themselves. You can pay a little more than rec and get a team together and participate in the tournaments. It’s a mixed bag with those. You get games vs similar teams doing the same thing and it’s fun for everybody. You could basically get the same experience in rec but they would need to charge more and manage it better, and also go so far as to separate divisions by skill level etc to make it a better product.
 

OG Goat Holder

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So honestly, if you can afford a little bit more money to be on a team that just plays in the local tourneys at Pearl, Brandon, Ridgeland, or Flowood every weekend it's totally worth it.
I agree with most everything you say. Only difference I've seen is that the only way to make it "a little bit more money" was to control/coach it myself. I did 11U for $650 (for the year), which doesn't include the parents' gate fees, concessions, metro area travel and all of that. Basic uniforms, field rental, tournaments, GS/PG entry, equipment, no D-Bat, etc. That's also with a little sponsorship money. Fast forward to this year, most of the teams have now went to some organization with someone making money, and it's minimum $1,500. In some cases $2,500. Of course the X-factor is sponsorship money, but I wasn't one to go begging folks for that handout - which is exactly what it is.

The astronomical cost, to me, is what makes it untenable. But people pay it so it's not changing, at least not in baseball (or soccer, really).
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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My exposure to girl's volleyball was short, but enjoyable while the games were being played. We went the YMCA way for a single season in 6th grade, and our daughter lucked into a coach that had played in college (D2, I think). They got better every game, and were second in the league by the end. We apparently got what we paid for with low league fees when whomever made the season-ending tournament mis-seeded the bracket, so they technically finished in a tie for third after facing the by-far #1 team in the semifinals.

She was good enough and tall enough (not quite 5'8") that she tried out for her school's junior high team with some confidence. Unfortunately, not a single coach took a moment to tell her that they required overhand serves (not sure that is actually a rule for the junior high games or if they were just saving themselves work later when it comes into play in high school) or ask her about how long she'd been playing, so while she was the only girl to land all 6 serve attempts, she was also the last one cut. If there was ever an indicator you had a potential raw talent to coach up, I would think that tryout was it, but even with no roster limit, they weren't interested.

Underhand serving is legal. It's legal at any level, even professionally. It's legal under FIVB, USAV, NCAA, etc etc.
That's bonkers to hear they claimed it's illegal in middle school.

It's also bonkers that a kid was cut from a 6th grade middles school team. Make an A and B team if you need, but keep as many kids in school sports as possible. It's healthy, builds accountability, builds relationships, and kids develop in middle school. They are small then big. They are weak then strong. They are uncoordinated then coordinated. Cutting a 6th grader from a middle school team is nuts.
 

00Dawg

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Underhand serving is legal. It's legal at any level, even professionally. It's legal under FIVB, USAV, NCAA, etc etc.
That's bonkers to hear they claimed it's illegal in middle school.

It's also bonkers that a kid was cut from a 6th grade middles school team. Make an A and B team if you need, but keep as many kids in school sports as possible. It's healthy, builds accountability, builds relationships, and kids develop in middle school. They are small then big. They are weak then strong. They are uncoordinated then coordinated. Cutting a 6th grader from a middle school team is nuts.
Should've clarified that the tryout was for the junior high team. They didn't have a 6th grade school team.
Interesting on the serve stuff...the info we got was it wasn't allowed in high school, but it wasn't direct to my ear from the coach and I never pressed the issue (not that it would've made any difference).
 

The Cooterpoot

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A diploma from Notre Dame is worth less than if I framed the first square of toilet paper that I wiped my åss with after a long night of tequila and tamales in a Tijuana whoréhouse.

17 Notre Dame. Don't bring that shìt to me.*

But back to the point. Small private schools may cost $40,000 a year, but they are rarely worth it... with maybe a couple dozen exceptions out of thousands.
I don't think you grasp the reach of ND Alums. But the $40K a year wasn't the smallest schools. And small private colleges are some of the best in the country too. Not all, I agree. But I've seen the success these kids have. One example, MSU has a grad program that took 30 kids. Of those 30, 11 were college athletes. Most went to small schools, a couple to SEC schools. Those kids will have little debt when done because of athletics and their degrees. They'll all be bringing down well over $100K.
And I really wish the rec leagues worked out. We all loved them growing up. And they're still pretty strong up to about 10 year old age groups except small town leagues are dead. But so are small towns.
My advice, if your kid doesn't love working their asses off and aren't great and love the sport, don't do it. You can jump in a league somewhere with friends.
As someone who never had a parent even throw a ball with him, don't simply say it's evil and sit you *** on the porch drinking every weekend either. Don't force your kid to "like" the **** YOU like. Find out what your kid thinks about it all. You know what you can afford and the time available. Hell, they may prefer software engineering over baseball or volleyball. Just talk to your kids and spent time with them doing what they love.
 
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rem101

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We just put our 3 (almost 4) year old in gulf coast united academy for soccer. Only reason's being the other option for 3 year old was YMCA which is a complete disaster of parents and kids running all over the field, and it's weekday nights instead of Saturday mornings. GCU has 3 coaches on the field teaching basic fundamentals for 30 min, once a week. There was a $20 difference in the season. If she continues to like it, we'll keep at it. I'd rather her learn the sport than learn to chase a kid around in circles like she can do on the preschool playground.
 

615dawg

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Jun 4, 2007
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Where are you located?
Club tryouts here happen in July, they start the weekend after Nationals ends. Its completely insane to me, but from what I understand, its quite common across the country at this point- one team moves tryouts and bid offers up, then others in the area do too, in order to compete for the best talent.

^ this is for the top level clubs. The rest hold tryouts in the fall on a random weekend towards the end of HS volleyball season. These clubs are the ones that benefit the most from genuinely evaluating.
We are in the Jackson metro area. We have four clubs. Until this year, we would try out for two clubs and evaluate the bids/teams we were offered. This year we decided to just stick with our club because we liked our experience the last two years. Our team is pretty much the same as last year, with a couple of transfers and a couple of additions.

But the evaluation system is crazy bad. Ive seen girls get bids for the top team at Club A and the bottom team at Club B. I don't know what to make of it.
 

615dawg

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Should've clarified that the tryout was for the junior high team. They didn't have a 6th grade school team.
Interesting on the serve stuff...the info we got was it wasn't allowed in high school, but it wasn't direct to my ear from the coach and I never pressed the issue (not that it would've made any difference).
Yep. It's legal in the Olympics. Is it effective? No. Maybe the high school required it, but we've been through middle school volleyball, I'd say that:

40% of players can only do the underhand serve, but it goes over consistently
40% of players have a somewhat consistent overhand serve, but not consistently powerful
10% of players can't get the ball over the net underhand or overhand
10% of players either have a consistent overhand serve or even have the beginnings of a jump serve.

I've seen an underhand serve at the high school level. Bad team, but it's there.
 
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