Earth's Temperature

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RocketDawg

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When is the last time in snowed in June? And yes, there is a difference between weather and climate.

You mentioned NOAA. I was just there and on the National Weather Service looking at tornado data.

This is recorded tornados in Alabama from 1950-2022. The interesting thing to me is that before 2000, they'd only had one year with 50 tornados. Since 2000, they've had 15 years with at least 50 tornados. You can see that the number of tornados is increasing.

View attachment 352170

For Mississippi over the same time period (1950-2022), it looks like a similar story. Don't know why the graphs are so different when they came from the same organization but you can still see the number of tornados trending up.

View attachment 352172
And just for the hell of it, I looked at nationwide data for the same 1950-2022 time period. It was in an excel file, so I had to graph it myself but the trend is the same... more tornados.

View attachment 352173

I'm sure we'll all argue about why this is the case but you can't realistically say that there's no proof of an increase in climate-related severe weather. Another reason might be increased population density so more effects and "eyes-on".


But there also seems to be a relocation to Tornado Alley to the east. i don't remember any upper end tornadoes in the traditional Tornado Alley, but there have been plenty in the so-called Dixie Alley that includes Mississippi, Alabama, and Tennessee.

I suspect much of the increase is better tornado detection, one of those being Doppler use by the National Weather Service as well as just about every television station in the region.
When is the last time in snowed in June? And yes, there is a difference between weather and climate.

You mentioned NOAA. I was just there and on the National Weather Service looking at tornado data.

This is recorded tornados in Alabama from 1950-2022. The interesting thing to me is that before 2000, they'd only had one year with 50 tornados. Since 2000, they've had 15 years with at least 50 tornados. You can see that the number of tornados is increasing.

View attachment 352170

For Mississippi over the same time period (1950-2022), it looks like a similar story. Don't know why the graphs are so different when they came from the same organization but you can still see the number of tornados trending up.

View attachment 352172
And just for the hell of it, I looked at nationwide data for the same 1950-2022 time period. It was in an excel file, so I had to graph it myself but the trend is the same... more tornados.

View attachment 352173

I'm sure we'll all argue about why this is the case but you can't realistically say that there's no proof of an increase in climate-related severe weather.

I suspect much of the increase is better tornado detection, one of those being Doppler radar used by the National Weather Service as well as virtually every television station in the region.

But there also seems to be a relocation to Tornado Alley to the east. i don't remember any upper end tornadoes this year in the traditional Tornado Alley, but there have been plenty in the so-called Dixie Alley that includes Mississippi, Alabama, and Tennessee.

We hear of Mississippi being second in number of tornadoes to Texas. Well, of course it is ... Texas is much larger in area, almost 5 times larger.
 

MSUDAWGFAN

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I think I probably agree with you here - my guess is some sort of geo-engineering will get us out of the true worst-case scenarios of global warming
It likely already has saved plenty of lives. Hence the question about 100 years ago. Climate hasn't gotten so much easier than it was, but we have modern advances - i.e. HVAC, etc. to be able to help prevent many climate deaths.
 

ChE1997

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Who exactly is the US "decades" behind? That's not true.
Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Brazil, New Zealand, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, Finland, Columbia,

As a % of the power we produce, only 20% is renewable. That puts us a 21st in the world....

Not accounting for Nuclear as Green

And the reason we are decades behind is in public opinion. the point i was making was that no where else in the world do we have this debate. no other major political party in the world is says climate change is a hoax
 
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ChE1997

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Those are actually the correct answers. My point was that if you ask most people they will say more people are dying today and they are dying more often from heat than cold - both wrong answers. And they answer that way because the media has a lot of people believing those wrong answers are correct.

That isn't to say that there aren't people that do their own research or that know more facts. But the average person doesn't and just takes what the media gives them and accept it as fact.
what's your point.... If it's that most people are Ignorant... I agree...
 
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MSUDAWGFAN

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what's your point.... If it's that most people are Ignorant... I agree...
Good.

But I've detected a little confrontational tone in your posts. Maybe it's just me, but it came across that way when you didn't then when you answered the way you did. If not, I apologize, as it's hard to know in text form.

If it is though, my question is why? I never once refuted anything you or anyone on here has said. Hell, I've barely even taken a side on this forum.
 

CochiseCowbell

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You're *so* close - why not just go ahead and blame it on the Jews?
I laughed, but he's not wrong. I don't think being eco-friendly is wrong or evil, though. I don't think he was implying that either, but I'm not sure. Without looking it up, I believe Heidrich Himmler was at the forefront of their Organic Farms, etc.
 

LordMcBuckethead

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I can only speak for myself. I'm not a registered member of any party. I tend to hold conservative ideas, and especially conservationist ideals as a former outdoorsman and Eagle Scout. The simple answer is what someone alluded to earlier, I don't know who to trust. Politics should never get involved in science and research. I posted a video in another thread talking about the lack of transparency and double blind studies in Environmental Research. ****, now politics are even into Medical Science which is even more ludicrous.


ETA: Super rich celebrities and politicians preaching to me about my carbon footprint while jet-setting around the world can get bent.

I believe climate change is real. Is it permanent? I don't know. Florida was supposed to be underwater 30 yrs ago, then 20, then 10. You have alarmist who've completely flip-flopped their messages on their "sandwich boards" because all they want is attention.
Politics are only involved with Science and research because one party refuses to even acknowledge something is happening and that Humans are the reason it is happening.
 

Podgy

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I laughed, but he's not wrong. I don't think being eco-friendly is wrong or evil, though. I don't think he was implying that either, but I'm not sure. Without looking it up, I believe Heidrich Himmler was at the forefront of their Organic Farms, etc.
Let's not dispel the notion that the little self-righteous child dorndog is brilliant or has intelligent things to say. It might harm his self-esteem.
 

LordMcBuckethead

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I don’t think conservatives fight against the idea “climate change”. They fight against the government’s bs tactics for increasing the financial burdens put on the average working man in order to line the pockets of politicians in the name of “fighting climate change” while actually increasing pollution, which according to the government is what is causing the climate change.
Climate change is from the burning of fossil fuels and the introduction of Co2 to the atmosphere at a rate second to only volcanic eruptions.
 
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HRMSU

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You're so ignorant and intellectually challenged. Why not just go ahead and keep posting proof that you're a dullard. FYI, my wife is part Jewish you silly little nitwit.

Told you! It didn't take long did it? You just experienced the attempt to marginalize....lol on the wife part....bear trap closing
 

LordMcBuckethead

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100% on board with responsible pollution reduction. Not on board with a lot of “green energy” such as ethanol that only increase pollution and don’t reduce fossil fuel use. And I understand that there will be set backs when trying new ideas, but I would like to see a “climate change fighter fighter” admit a lot of their ideas are failed, so let’s quit trying those instead of continuing stepping backwards with the same idea.
I am an all of the above approach, personally. Phase out fossil fuels over time, bring on alternatives over time. Which, is what is actually happening. No one is saying they are shutting down coal tomorrow. We are shutting it down in 20 years, we just have to invest now to get the alt production high enough to do it responsibly for all the energy users.... citizens.
 
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Podgy

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Told you! It didn't take long did it? You just experienced the attempt to marginalize....lol on the wife part....bear trap closing
TBH, most of our Jewish relatives became Catholics. A couple stuck with the faith but not in a genuinely committed fashion because they also married Catholics. "Attempt" is the key word. A failed attempt.
 
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LordMcBuckethead

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If we really wanted to, we could produce all of our own energy needs for this country with plans to expand beyond our 100 year projected use within the next 10 years. It would drastically change global politics and put our country on the best footing it has been on since 1945. But, it would take a damn large effort, and political will to do it. It can be done, should be done, and dare I say it almost has to be done.

All the while, burn fossil fuels and drill for oil as much as we want. I am all for it.
 

ChE1997

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It likely already has saved plenty of lives. Hence the question about 100 years ago. Climate hasn't gotten so much easier than it was, but we have modern advances - i.e. HVAC, etc. to be able to help prevent many climate deaths.
AC wont help us with sea level rising.
Or that we cannot grow as much maize, wheat, rice, soy, or potatoes as we need to feed everyone.

same with livestock. what types and breeds will need to be changed to adapt to the different temps.

All able to be done with breeding and crisper if needed i guess
 

ChE1997

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Good.

But I've detected a little confrontational tone in your posts. Maybe it's just me, but it came across that way when you didn't then when you answered the way you did. If not, I apologize, as it's hard to know in text form.

If it is though, my question is why? I never once refuted anything you or anyone on here has said. Hell, I've barely even taken a side on this forum.
You seemed to be trying to bait me with your question. and i'm wary of questions like that to being an disingenuous argument.
 

MSUDAWGFAN

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You seemed to be trying to bait me with your question. and i'm wary of questions like that to being an disingenuous argument.
I wasn't trying to bait anyone. I asked 2 legitimate questions that most people get wrong in an effort to say to everyone this - "The media lies to you." Both sides.
 
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MSUDAWGFAN

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AC wont help us with sea level rising.
Or that we cannot grow as much maize, wheat, rice, soy, or potatoes as we need to feed everyone.

same with livestock. what types and breeds will need to be changed to adapt to the different temps.

All able to be done with breeding and crisper if needed i guess
That AC won't help us with sea level rising is indeed true. But, I'm going to ask one more question.

I'm 46 years old, so let's use somewhere around that much time. How many feet inland has the rising sea level caused the seashore to recede?
 

ChE1997

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I wasn't trying to bait anyone. I asked 2 legitimate questions that most people get wrong in an effort to say to everyone this - "The media lies to you." Both sides.
Oh I know.

Citizens United means that those with the money make the rules, and control what we hear, read and see.
 
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MSUDAWGFAN

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Oh I know.

Citizens United means that those with the money make the rules, and control what we hear, read and see.
It's funny to me, if not terribly sad that Republicans seem to think Donald Trump is completely innocent and Joe Biden and his crime family are completely evil and bought off and hate this country, while Democrats think Biden is innocent and Trump and his family are bought off and hate this country too.

The truth is probably somewhere in between.

So that's my point. Don't buy all the climate hysteria. Don't buy that it's not doing anything. It's somewhere in the middle.
 
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FQDawg

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I'm 46 years old, so let's use somewhere around that much time. How many feet inland has the rising sea level caused the seashore to recede?

ETA - This is a good story that looks at sea level rise with actual data and examples of how it affects coastal communities.


Depends on where you go...

  • From NOAA: EPA’s analyses revealed that from 1996 to 2011, roughly 20 square miles of dry land and wetland were converted to open water along the Atlantic coast. Analysts also found more land was lost in the Southeast than in the Mid-Atlantic, and a greater loss occurred to dry land than nontidal wetland. This information was provided to coastal communities and practitioners as part of EPA’s third edition of Climate Change Indicators in the United States, a report that describes the significance of long-term trends and their possible consequences for people, the environment, and society. https://coast.noaa.gov/digitalcoast/stories/atlantic-epa.html

  • Records show sea level in this part of coastal North Carolina has risen about 7.6 centimeters (3 inches) since the early 1980s. According to the U.S. Global Change Research Program, coastal erosion results in U.S. coastal property losses of about a half billion dollars each year in the form of damaged structures and lost land. https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/as...-level-rise-youre-looking-in-the-wrong-place/

  • According to the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, global mean sea level rose by about 0.06 inch annually over the first 90 years of the 20th century. But in the single decade between 2005 and 2015, that rate accelerated to 0.14 inch per year. https://www.nrdc.org/stories/these-photographs-show-how-rising-sea-connects-us-all

  • Is Louisiana losing a football field of land to the ocean every hour? Yes. Torbjörn E. Törnqvist, a geology professor at Tulane University in New Orleans, told us by email, “Estimates vary a bit, but by and large the one football field per hour metaphor is very reasonable.”

    According to the U.S. Geological Survey’s most recent analysis in 2011, Louisiana lost an average of 16.6 square miles of land a year from 1985 to 2010, which equates to roughly a football field per hour. In total, the state lost 1,883 square miles of land between 1932 and 2010 — an area over 1.2 times larger than Rhode Island. https://www.factcheck.org/2017/03/land-loss-in-louisiana/

  • Louisiana is in the midst of a land loss crisis that has claimed nearly 1,900 square miles of land since the 1930s, and a scientific analysis confirmed that without action, we could lose up to another 4,120 square miles over the next 50 years.

    Barrier islands, marshes, and swamps throughout our coast reduce incoming storm surge, helping to reduce flooding impacts. If we continue to lose these habitats, the vulnerability of communities and infrastructure will increase substantially. https://coastal.la.gov/whats-at-stake/a-changing-landscape/
 
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ChE1997

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That AC won't help us with sea level rising is indeed true. But, I'm going to ask one more question.

I'm 46 years old, so let's use somewhere around that much time. How many feet inland has the rising sea level caused the seashore to recede?
best I can see is to date the sea levels have increased 6-10 inches since 1901. But the rate of change is increasing. and as global mean temperture increases, so will sea levels. I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here. but it would not take much more rise to impact coastal low areas.
 

ChE1997

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It's funny to me, if not terribly sad that Republicans seem to think Donald Trump is completely innocent and Joe Biden and his crime family are completely evil and bought off and hate this country, while Democrats think Biden is innocent and Trump and his family are bought off and hate this country too.

The truth is probably somewhere in between.

So that's my point. Don't buy all the climate hysteria. Don't buy that it's not doing anything. It's somewhere in the middle.
Calling biden a "crime family" tells me you are not a "both sides" as much as you say.

Not that i think he's above board, but I'm skeptical of information from Ukraine/russia and china.
 
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Jacknut

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Fear is a method to control people.
It's hot - climate change
It's cold - climate change
Rained a lot - climate change
Didn't rain enough - climate change
Lot's of hurricanes - climate change
No hurricanes this season - climate change
Wildfires - climate change
 
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Ranchdawg

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ETA - This is a good story that looks at sea level rise with actual data and examples of how it affects coastal communities.


Depends on where you go...

  • From NOAA: EPA’s analyses revealed that from 1996 to 2011, roughly 20 square miles of dry land and wetland were converted to open water along the Atlantic coast. Analysts also found more land was lost in the Southeast than in the Mid-Atlantic, and a greater loss occurred to dry land than nontidal wetland. This information was provided to coastal communities and practitioners as part of EPA’s third edition of Climate Change Indicators in the United States, a report that describes the significance of long-term trends and their possible consequences for people, the environment, and society. https://coast.noaa.gov/digitalcoast/stories/atlantic-epa.html

  • Records show sea level in this part of coastal North Carolina has risen about 7.6 centimeters (3 inches) since the early 1980s. According to the U.S. Global Change Research Program, coastal erosion results in U.S. coastal property losses of about a half billion dollars each year in the form of damaged structures and lost land. https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/as...-level-rise-youre-looking-in-the-wrong-place/

  • According to the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, global mean sea level rose by about 0.06 inch annually over the first 90 years of the 20th century. But in the single decade between 2005 and 2015, that rate accelerated to 0.14 inch per year. https://www.nrdc.org/stories/these-photographs-show-how-rising-sea-connects-us-all

  • Is Louisiana losing a football field of land to the ocean every hour? Yes. Torbjörn E. Törnqvist, a geology professor at Tulane University in New Orleans, told us by email, “Estimates vary a bit, but by and large the one football field per hour metaphor is very reasonable.”

    According to the U.S. Geological Survey’s most recent analysis in 2011, Louisiana lost an average of 16.6 square miles of land a year from 1985 to 2010, which equates to roughly a football field per hour. In total, the state lost 1,883 square miles of land between 1932 and 2010 — an area over 1.2 times larger than Rhode Island. https://www.factcheck.org/2017/03/land-loss-in-louisiana/

  • Louisiana is in the midst of a land loss crisis that has claimed nearly 1,900 square miles of land since the 1930s, and a scientific analysis confirmed that without action, we could lose up to another 4,120 square miles over the next 50 years.

    Barrier islands, marshes, and swamps throughout our coast reduce incoming storm surge, helping to reduce flooding impacts. If we continue to lose these habitats, the vulnerability of communities and infrastructure will increase substantially. https://coastal.la.gov/whats-at-stake/a-changing-landscape/
Is the land lost in Louisiana due to erosion, sinking or ocean rising. Storm surges do take some land back when they recede. Of course, changing weather patterns can be blamed for the surges.
If the ocean rose 3 inches in NC the same should apply for the entire Eastern Seaboard shouldn't it?
 

horshack.sixpack

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Did you not read the article? It literally talks about it spreading to other States and local governments. Geese.....you are either choosing to be naive or purposely ignoring the potential spread of this idiotic policy.
I don't subscribe to slippery slope fear based decision making or let it get me riled up in any way. If my gas stove gets outlawed in MS while I'm still on the topside of dirt, I'll pay you $100 I told you so fee. Everything that happens in CA doesn't happen in MS, even on a long time line. Some things do. Most do not. You can react to that article however you see fit. I don't have the energy to put any alarmist energy into this one.
 
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horshack.sixpack

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There is a correlation between income levels and pollution. If you are just trying to survive then pollution and the environment kind of take a back seat to eating.

Now, if more people were able to be lifted out of extreme poverty then naturally the correlation would say pollution would go down and probably by a greater magnitude than what we are trying to do in developed nations. How do you do that? You provide an all in energy policy (everything)until you can go 100% green. You don't just shove green down everybody's throat especially countries who have no chance of being successful right now with premature green alternatives.
I would like to note my agreement in disdain for premature things. Also, you are correct. Green isn't fully baked and is evolving daily with pros and cons to most things posited that I've seen.
 
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dorndawg

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Let's not dispel the notion that the little self-righteous child dorndog is brilliant or has intelligent things to say. It might harm his self-esteem.
At first I thought this was "chili dorndog" and that got a chuckle.
 
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Boom Boom

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I wasn't trying to bait anyone. I asked 2 legitimate questions that most people get wrong in an effort to say to everyone this - "The media lies to you." Both sides.
Anyone who can't say which side lies much more than the other is a bigger liar than either.
 

aTotal360

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What freedom would we have to give up to work towards energy independence or cleaner water or air?
Very true. YOU haven't lost any freedom. But some 19-year-old woman with a baby strapped to her chest is having to mine cobalt at gunpoint while huffing lethal fumes all because the Chinese govt has struck a deal with a warlord in the Congo because you need more battery power/renewable energy.

You are very right. YOU haven't lost any freedom. Unfortunately, someone on the other side of the planet has.
 

FQDawg

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Is the land lost in Louisiana due to erosion, sinking or ocean rising. Storm surges do take some land back when they recede. Of course, changing weather patterns can be blamed for the surges.
If the ocean rose 3 inches in NC the same should apply for the entire Eastern Seaboard shouldn't it?
From what I've read, it's a little of all three columns but they're also interconnected. Sea levels rising leads to more erosion and some natural sinking obviously doesn't help.

As for your Eastern seaboard question - no, not necessarily. If only because land, even land under water, is at different elevations so changes are going to look different in different locations.
 
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FQDawg

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Very true. YOU haven't lost any freedom. But some 19-year-old woman with a baby strapped to her chest is having to mine cobalt at gunpoint while huffing lethal fumes all because the Chinese govt has struck a deal with a warlord in the Congo because you need more battery power/renewable energy.

You are very right. YOU haven't lost any freedom. Unfortunately, someone on the other side of the planet has.
That is quite a descriptive strawman you've created there.
 

Podgy

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Oct 1, 2022
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ETA - This is a good story that looks at sea level rise with actual data and examples of how it affects coastal communities.


Depends on where you go...

  • From NOAA: EPA’s analyses revealed that from 1996 to 2011, roughly 20 square miles of dry land and wetland were converted to open water along the Atlantic coast. Analysts also found more land was lost in the Southeast than in the Mid-Atlantic, and a greater loss occurred to dry land than nontidal wetland. This information was provided to coastal communities and practitioners as part of EPA’s third edition of Climate Change Indicators in the United States, a report that describes the significance of long-term trends and their possible consequences for people, the environment, and society. https://coast.noaa.gov/digitalcoast/stories/atlantic-epa.html

  • Records show sea level in this part of coastal North Carolina has risen about 7.6 centimeters (3 inches) since the early 1980s. According to the U.S. Global Change Research Program, coastal erosion results in U.S. coastal property losses of about a half billion dollars each year in the form of damaged structures and lost land. https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/as...-level-rise-youre-looking-in-the-wrong-place/

  • According to the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, global mean sea level rose by about 0.06 inch annually over the first 90 years of the 20th century. But in the single decade between 2005 and 2015, that rate accelerated to 0.14 inch per year. https://www.nrdc.org/stories/these-photographs-show-how-rising-sea-connects-us-all

  • Is Louisiana losing a football field of land to the ocean every hour? Yes. Torbjörn E. Törnqvist, a geology professor at Tulane University in New Orleans, told us by email, “Estimates vary a bit, but by and large the one football field per hour metaphor is very reasonable.”

    According to the U.S. Geological Survey’s most recent analysis in 2011, Louisiana lost an average of 16.6 square miles of land a year from 1985 to 2010, which equates to roughly a football field per hour. In total, the state lost 1,883 square miles of land between 1932 and 2010 — an area over 1.2 times larger than Rhode Island. https://www.factcheck.org/2017/03/land-loss-in-louisiana/

  • Louisiana is in the midst of a land loss crisis that has claimed nearly 1,900 square miles of land since the 1930s, and a scientific analysis confirmed that without action, we could lose up to another 4,120 square miles over the next 50 years.

    Barrier islands, marshes, and swamps throughout our coast reduce incoming storm surge, helping to reduce flooding impacts. If we continue to lose these habitats, the vulnerability of communities and infrastructure will increase substantially. https://coastal.la.gov/whats-at-stake/a-changing-landscape/
Much of that is due to all the canal construction during the oil boom. Lots of saltwater intrusion. The industry provided lots of middle and upper-class jobs that helped modernize South Louisiana but it came at a huge environmental cost. Repairing the damage, slowing land loss, rebuilding land etc will be quite expensive. Or one day Louisiana's coast will look at lot like Mississippi's coast.
 

Podgy

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Oh I know.

Citizens United means that those with the money make the rules, and control what we hear, read and see.
Are your posts approved by Citizens United or does it somehow not apply to you because you're immune to it in some way? If CU is so powerful, how did it not control what you hear, read and see?
 
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FQDawg

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Whatever makes you sleep better...
I am of course completely against 19-year old mothers being forced to mine cobalt with their babies strapped to their chests just to satisfy the terms of a fictional contract between China and a Congolese warlord. And that's to say nothing of how I'm against someone being forced to huff lethal fumes. You might even say I'm in an anti-huffing lethal fumes cult.

I just wasn't aware that your not at all made up situation only came into being because I support growing the renewable energy industry.
 

Podgy

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Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Brazil, New Zealand, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, Finland, Columbia,

As a % of the power we produce, only 20% is renewable. That puts us a 21st in the world....

Not accounting for Nuclear as Green

And the reason we are decades behind is in public opinion. the point i was making was that no where else in the world do we have this debate. no other major political party in the world is says climate change is a hoax
We're decades behind Brazil and Columbia, really poor countries, and some countries with lots of white people that drive tiny cars, lack dryers and reasonably sized refrigerators etc? I'm shocked. Because some might rely more on renewables than we do doesn't mean we're "decades behind." We just don't use as many renewables. We're also richer than any of the countries you mentioned. I do agree that Republicans are absurd to call climate change a hoax rather than just criticizing environmental extremism and alarmism.
 
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