Why have I heard of so many new DC projects all of a sudden? Seems like the DC projects in the Deep South waited around long enough for renewables proliferation. Seems like in 2H24 they just said “17 it” and started throwing new NG generators in the plans left and right. I’m sure it’s not as simple.
EV/hybrids were 20% of new cars sold last year
- Thread starter dorndawg
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Are you familiar with Moore's Law? If not. it's not actually a law, per se, rather an observation of the advancement of information technology. It has been an incredibly accurate predictor of the exponentially increasing growth of IT and the need to address said growth.
Well, that's what it has become anyway. Technically it started in 1965 and referred to the predicted growth of the # of transistors we would find on microchips. It's morphed into a predictor of pretty much all information technology, and states we should expect a doubling every 2 years.
That has also meant a need for solutions to support that expected growth. It has proven reliable for decades and plays a big part in how companies react to that expected growth, both in the need for it to support their functions and for manufacturers, service providers, etc., to anticipate what the market is likely to need.
Well recently we blew right past this decades-long predictor. The exponential rate of acceleration is now dwarfing that previously held concept of a doubling every 2 years. With the advent of AI and the astonishing breakthrough Nvidia has made, that is now more like a doubling or more in a matter of months.
In order to support the current and expected future growth there is a need to increase our ability to handle that burst of technological advance, We need to provide the equipment and facilities to handle storage, processing, etc. Data Centers have become the most effective way to provide that, but as you can imagine, they require ungodly amounts of power/electricity.
And I'm not talking just about the power all that equipment requires, but the ability to keep them running cool enough to not fry. If you've ever been in one of the cages or blocks of cabinets stacked full of servers, with each server running multiple processors at extreme speeds you'd realize first, that the space farthest away can be rather chilly, but when you stand in the midst of those servers you can start sweating.
Consider your own laptop and the amount of heat it puts out. That is a teeny-tiny fraction of what you would get from one server in a cabinet. A typical cabinet holds 42 servers humming along. Each one of those servers can have 16 or more processors, so each cabinet likely has 672 or more processors in one single cabinet.
Modern hyperscale data centers can have thousands of cabinets. So, let's say we're looking at one that has 2,000 cabinets. That's 84,000 servers & approximately 1.3 million high-speed processors cranking away 24/7. It sounds like you're in the middle of a giant beehive!
So, back to your laptop and it's one processor that is most likely not nearly equal to just one of the processors in one server in one cabinet. Take the heat your laptop puts out, multiply that by 1.3 million (actually more because each server processor is subject to vastly more heat). You're probably getting a picture of how critical cooling is and how much power is required to power the cooling solutions alone!
So, you see the need for data centers. But now you can also imagine the burden placed upon any city's power grid. Many DC's have taken to building their own power plants, but those power plants have to generate power somehow and they need real estate to build such a plant, as well as to build and allow for rapid future growth of the DC itself (recall Moore's Law above).
Where are you gonna find lots of available real estate and where are you gonna find electricity rates lower?
Never is a long time. New batteries, more and more charging ports, even paint that acts as a solar panel are all being developed.
If commuting for work 50-250 miles a day, really consider an EV right now because it’s waaay cheaper, almost nonexistent maintenance and its starting to look like they last much longer. Some estimates have the batteries lasting 2 million miles. ICE = 2,000 moving parts - EV has 200
Those long trips you speak? I have made two in the past 2 years and my EV was just fine. Three stops to recharge in one day was a pain for sure, cost me about an extra hour of travel time but if that’s the bad, the good far out weighs it.
It’s funny how people say never, usually don’t own one. These things kick your typical gas burners *** for driving experience and that ain’t no joke.
Curious how this will look over the next couple years. Ford sales manager here locally was frustrated that he is being pushed from the corporate level to sell more EV’s. Said if he didn’t sell x% of EV’s, he would lose his allocation of regular vehicles. That required % was going up each quarter. Ford now includes a charger and charger installation with a new EV purchase (or were starting that when I spoke to him in late October). He expected ev’s to start being heavily discounted in order to hit the sales targets he was being told his dealership had to hit.
Ford has so much invested in their EV line that they are going to make every effort to make it work.
Are those long trips done with 3 kids, a wife, and a ton of luggage? Just curious if you comparing apples to apples. Those are the trips I imagine when I think of how insufficient EV vehicles are for families.
Here I am thinking that heat was from all those NSFW posts.***
Depends on the roads. All interstate, you are correct. On state highways (55 speed limit), my F150 hybrid will go in to electric only mode at that speed if there is just a little downhill. I regularly get 24-26 mpg on those roads driving 60 mph ish. I get 20-21 on interstate driving 80-83 mph. .
Not surprising considering Ford’s CEO is a Yuge Fan of the Xiaomi SU7:
If everything you say is 100% accurate then we can find something else to talk about because they will sell themselves . I truly believe if the product is worthwhile the market will take care of the rest without government intervention .
You really believe that, despite all the products/markets/industries that are well established yet continue to receive 'government intervention'?
I'm simply saying that if Americans perceive EV's as something that makes sense for them to own and can afford it they will buy it without the government telling them what to do. Kinda that "build a better mouse trap" thingy. You're trying to steer this thread in another direction so you can post one of your unreadable and useless 3 page diatribes against ...... fill in the blank.
How many products does the government directly pay people $7,500 to buy?
I am not trying to steer the conversation at all. You said you believe products that are worthwhile will sell themselves without government getting involved, so I asked if you feel the same about all the well established products- sugar, other crops, oil, housing, healthcare, etc.
That is a very narrow qualifier, so I am going to guess that there are no other products which meet that specific amount of money.
A $7500 tax credit is not the only way in which the government intervenes and helps financially support or prop up product/markets/industries.
$7500 or more is common for mortgage interest deduction. That's not the same, but in the ballpark.
For some reason, I always expect a more reasoned and rational response from you, but you’ve really been stretching things for the past year. I mean in a that’s-nowhere-near-a-response-from-an-educated-know-it-all way. Used to, you’d be somewhat rational albeit in a liberal slant kinda way.
Government mandates on EVs is nowhere close to farm subsidies et al.
Charging at home at night pretty much eliminates that. I use an extra $40 a month,
except people hate them and never had one. Sometimes things are just too political.
Part of the reason they are losing value so quickly is new ones are better.
How about indirectly? Walmart is the most subsidized company in the world. How? majority of their employees get federal assistance because they don’t pay a living wage. How about forcing companies pay a living wage! You can’t even buy a carton of eggs with an hours work at WM these days.
For cars? I remember several bailouts but: Oil industry subsidies are far greater and props up gas car buyers to the turn of billions over the years. And we have to subsidize them or risk our oil industry going broke when it price drops below $60 a barrel. We can’t allow oil companies to fold. That happens and it’s a matter of national security. This country requires a steady source of energy. We need all alternative energies… nuclear, coal, hydro, propane, gas vehicles and EVs. I say about 1/3 cars could BE EVS and it’s helps this country immensely.
I was glad Trump eliminated the mandate on EVS and that Musk is on his team. I think that EVs will be better product for more and more people as it improves. If it happens organically, then power grid will expand as needed.
heck, the hydrogen car may replace em both shortly!!!
That is true, we pay people not to farm. That is way worse.
Loaded out but no kids but I had lots of unnecessary crap I was hauling.
I say if every house with multiple cars should consider owning at least one. I promise you they would drive it more often than any of the others once they learned it. More fun to drive and way cheaper but there will be times an ICE may be a better option.
I own 3. Two are ICE- A yard truck, wife’s SUV and my HYUNDAI Ioniq 5.
After owning one for two years. I don’t thing I will ever buy another ICE but my wife might. She is not ready… I mean some people never learn to set the time on the VCR. Still blinking since 1984.
First off, not sure why you are calling it a 'mandate' since it's a tax incentive.
We are talking about financially propping up a market here.
The EV tax incentive and farm subsidies both prop up products/markets/industries.
You may not like that an EV tax incentive and farm subsidies both prop up products/markets/industries, but that doesn't mean I am incorrect in pointing this out.
Your response to how the free markets should choose a product’s success is mentioning how the govt is propping up a product as if we should all be happy about and then mention farm subsidies as it’s a fair comparison. And, yes, there is a fed mandate pushing manufacturers to create more EV/hybrids.
The govt shouldn’t be in that business and you know it. But I’m sure you’ll continue holding up your “farm subsidies“ poster.
OK, so you used 'mandate' correctly, you just don't understand that I wasn't referring to a mandate when I responded to the government subsidies comment. Heck, that comment also wasn't referring to a mandate...it was referring to a subsidy.
Do you see why it's odd for you to bring a mandare comment into a conversation about subsidizing a product/market/industry?
And do you really not think other produxts/markets/industries are impacted by similar mandates? We don't use asbestos any longer...and other products were pushed instead. Where are the lead water pipes? Where are the older style clay water pipes?
Those products have been altered and/or replaced...thru law...so a mandate.
I could on and on- leaded gas, chemicals in homes, chemicals in industry, etc etc.
These mandates, or laws, forced produxts/matkets/industries to adjust.
No different here with EVs.
But that's beside the point because I commented on financially subsidizing and pointed out, correctly, that even well established prodicts/markets/industries are subsidized so it isn't like EVs being subsidized is odd or unjustifiable.
"Part of the reason they are losing value so quickly is new ones are better."
Ever give it a thought that this is a also reason the new ones available today aren't flying off the lot ? Even us dumb old boomers realize that technology is moving faster than ever and today's EV's will be obsolete in a few years . EV acceptance will not be forced on us by the government but the vehicles will simply start to make too much $ense to not own at least one.
Ever give it a thought that this is a also reason the new ones available today aren't flying off the lot ? Even us dumb old boomers realize that technology is moving faster than ever and today's EV's will be obsolete in a few years . EV acceptance will not be forced on us by the government but the vehicles will simply start to make too much $ense to not own at least one.
The point was made that the govt should get out of propping up a product and it should. ICE vehicles aren’t killing anything or detrimental to people’s health like crops or asbestos (and the other crap you mentioned) so it’s completely apples to oranges. The govt was pushing for EVs bc of the liberal agenda to provide incentives (which I don’t necessarily care about to an extent) but the point (again) was originally made that the market should dictate the products produced. The market loves ICE over EVs. That’s obviously changing so it’ll be interesting to see if that continues when companies aren’t forced (govt mandate) to produce EV or ICE when people are not artificially able to make a choice.
I do see what you’re saying about the mandate, but your point mentioning subsidies on a product as if that negated the free market wasn’t apples-to-oranges.
You should look into why you’re having problems with the word “products”.
Add towing your boat to Florida when you go visit your relative for 1200 miles.
When I got to Mississippi, at cotton harvest time farmers were towing around these large bin trailers to take their cotton to the local gin. They took many trips and there were many gins. The sides of Mississippi roads looked like it had just snowed when they moved all that cotton.
Not sure what year it was but someone came up with a hydraulic compactor that would pack that cotton very tight and they would put a tarp over that tractor trailer sized load of cotton and load it on a flat bed truck. At first you saw it in a few fields. In 4 or 5 years there wasn't a cotton trailer too be seen and all the local gin closed and the roads looked like they always do.
When you build a better mouse trap, it takes over.
Exactly. If an EV is really better than a hybrid or full ICE, it will sell itself. And for some people & uses, it is. But that will always be a small minority. At least for a long time.
Great post, and I obviously missed it.
I've been wondering for years what MS could do with all its land to actually develop and turn a profit. Big hunting lodges, medical weed, etc. Nothing ever worked out but maybe data centers are the answer. I do wonder if it's best to build them in the extreme heat/humidity of MS rather than somewhere up north, and how that cost is offset by cheaper land and power costs. Who knows.
Since all these data centers do is sit there and suck power....maybe we could build disc golf or walking trails around them.
The main things MS can sell DCs right now is cheap power and cheap land. Fortunately, those are their current top priorities.
Those were called module builders. They’re dinosaurs now too. The picker makes the bales now inside as it’s picking the cotton.
One of those things I don't know anything about but modern farming equipment amazes me every time I see it in the fields or dealer lots. The sheer size of it is mindboggling.
Looking for something to do with the grandson on a visit and went down to the "expo" in Louisville a few years ago. Even in a convention hall it was still hard to believe they got that stuff in the building. Little scary watching him crawl up in the cabs.
Oh man you went to the Louisville Machinery Show. That’s the ultimate farm show. It takes two days to go through it and see everything.
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