Everyone does it, not just Harbaugh

[18IsTheMan]

Everyone's looking for a leg up, one way or another. It's part of the game. Don't understand the ire over Harbaugh.

https://www.si.com/college/2016/12/21/shane-beamer-fined-wake-forest-leaks-virginia-tech-georgia#:~:text=Georgia%20assistant%20Shane%20Beamer%20fined,the%20Wake%20Forest%20leaking%20scandal.

Georgia fines Shane Beamer $25K for role in Wake scandal

Georgia has fined assistant coach Shane Beamer $25,000 for accepting leaked game plan information two years ago from a former Wake Forest assistant coach who has been fired from his job as a radio analyst

www.usatoday.com

 

[Deleted11512]

Everyone's looking for a leg up, one way or another. It's part of the game. Don't understand the ire over Harbaugh.

https://www.si.com/college/2016/12/21/shane-beamer-fined-wake-forest-leaks-virginia-tech-georgia#:~:text=Georgia%20assistant%20Shane%20Beamer%20fined,the%20Wake%20Forest%20leaking%20scandal.

Georgia fines Shane Beamer $25K for role in Wake scandal

Georgia has fined assistant coach Shane Beamer $25,000 for accepting leaked game plan information two years ago from a former Wake Forest assistant coach who has been fired from his job as a radio analyst

www.usatoday.com

No, it's not even close. Here is what happened with Beamer:

"While at Virginia Tech, I was contacted by Tommy Elrod the night before our game against Wake Forest in 2014," Beamer said in a statement. "I had known him for several years through coaching circles so I did not think it unusual he would be calling me. During these communications, however, he told me about a few plays that he said Wake Forest might run during the game on Saturday ... I realize I made a serious mistake in judgment by accepting the information and failing to notify officials at Virginia Tech of the communications. I sincerely apologize to Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, the ACC and the University of Georgia for my mistake. I am truly sorry."

Frank Beamer and Bud Foster denied any knowledge of the conversation, and Shane says he didn't tell anyone, even student athletes, of the conversation. That is in no way, shape, or form similar to a member of the football staff buying tickets to opponents' games and sending people to video all the signals on the sideline. Bob Stoops just confirmed this is not normal. This isn't bending rules to get an advantage. This is blatant cheating.

 

[Prestonyte]

Much different from the sophisticated electronic and documented system in place at Michigan.

 

[18IsTheMan]

No, it's not even close. Here is what happened with Beamer:

"While at Virginia Tech, I was contacted by Tommy Elrod the night before our game against Wake Forest in 2014," Beamer said in a statement. "I had known him for several years through coaching circles so I did not think it unusual he would be calling me. During these communications, however, he told me about a few plays that he said Wake Forest might run during the game on Saturday ... I realize I made a serious mistake in judgment by accepting the information and failing to notify officials at Virginia Tech of the communications. I sincerely apologize to Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, the ACC and the University of Georgia for my mistake. I am truly sorry."

Frank Beamer and Bud Foster denied any knowledge of the conversation, and Shane says he didn't tell anyone, even student athletes, of the conversation. That is in no way, shape, or form similar to a member of the football staff buying tickets to opponents' games and sending people to video all the signals on the sideline. Bob Stoops just confirmed this is not normal. This isn't bending rules to get an advantage. This is blatant cheating.

If you accept Beamer's statement that he didn't do anything with the information, why don't you accept Harbaugh's statement that he had nothing to do with it?

 

[18IsTheMan]

Much different from the sophisticated electronic and documented system in place at Michigan.

Cheating is cheating, no?

If my kid gets caught cheating in school by writing the answers on his/her hand, he/she is in no less trouble than if they cheated by having friends text them the answers.

Why is electronic cheating perceived to a more grievous offense than non-electronic?

 

[Prestonyte]

Harbaugh knows nothing about what goes on under his tenure - never does.

Cheating is cheating, no?

If my kid gets caught cheating in school by writing the answers on his/her hand, he/she is in no less trouble than if they cheated by having friends text them the answers.

Why is electronic cheating perceived to a more grievous offense than non-electronic?

The rules are pretty clear, and some try to really stretch the rules.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Harbaugh knows nothing about what goes on under his tenure - never does.
The rules are pretty clear, and some try to really stretch the rules.

What Beamer did is no worse or less grievous than what Michigan is alleged to have done.

Both illegally obtained information.

Trying to shade and differentiate between kinds of cheating and which kinds are acceptable and which are not is just absurd.

 

[Deleted11512]

Cheating is cheating, no?

If my kid gets caught cheating in school by writing the answers on his/her hand, he/she is in no less trouble than if they cheated by having friends text them the answers.

Why is electronic cheating perceived to a more grievous offense than non-electronic?

So, if someone calls your kid and says "hey bruh, on the test this afternoon question 8 is C, 9 is b"....you think that's the same as if your kid had an elaborate cheating scheme where he set up cameras in the classroom to video the actual test so he can know exactly what questions are going to be asked?? Come on man. That's absurd. If someone steals a stick of gum, is it the same as stealing a car? Nope.

 

[Deleted11512]

What Beamer did is no worse or less grievous than what Michigan is alleged to have done.

Both illegally obtained information.

Trying to shade and differentiate between kinds of cheating and which kinds are acceptable and which are not is just absurd.

No, it's life. Maybe we should all just live by Shariah law and have our hands cut off b/c we stole a beer from a gas station when we were 16. If this is a troll attempt, you got me. Good job.

 

[Prestonyte]

Beamer was punished and Harbaugh will be also.
I think the conference has the evidence, and more coming in daily, to put a stop to this type of ''Systemic Cheating'' with something more severe and Michigan/Harbaugh will pay the price.
The SDS parody was pretty much a bullseye.

 

[18IsTheMan]

So, if someone calls your kid and says "hey bruh, on the test this afternoon question 8 is C, 9 is b"....you think that's the same as if your kid had an elaborate cheating scheme where he set up cameras in the classroom to video the actual test so he can know exactly what questions are going to be asked?? Come on man. That's absurd. If someone steals a stick of gum, is it the same as stealing a car? Nope.

Well, the last analogy doesn't apply. The value of the item stolen obviously factors into the consideration of the offense.

In this case, what's worse: stealing signals or stealing play information? If you can distinguish between the two, you missed your calling in politics.

 

[Lurker123]

I am of the opinion that every major college has some form of this going on.

I am also of the opinion that every major program was paying players before NIL.

 

[will110]

Well, the last analogy doesn't apply. The value of the item stolen obviously factors into the consideration of the offense.

In this case, what's worse: stealing signals or stealing play information? If you can distinguish between the two, you missed your calling in politics.

Like @DaboSits2PeePee posted, there's a huge difference between actively and intentionally going above and beyond all customary actions to steal signs from future opponents and receiving play information from a disgruntled school employee out of the blue. Both are obviously wrong, but one is far worse.

 

[18IsTheMan]

No, it's life. Maybe we should all just live by Shariah law and have our hands cut off b/c we stole a beer from a gas station when we were 16. If this is a troll attempt, you got me. Good job.

The overarching point, which you are straining to miss, is that EVERYONE is obviously looking for ways to get a leg up. Some may take less sophisticated approaches. Others more sophisticated. You think WE aren't trying to decipher signs by opposing teams in some way or another? It just seems silly to me to paint some as ok and others as grievous.

Further, we just expect that when coaches leave to join the staff of an opposing team (e.g. Kitchens at UNC) they will share info from their previous team. Nobody bats an eyelash about that. How is that substantively different from Beamer's infraction?

 

[Prestonyte]

Everybody tries to see if they can pick up a pattern regarding signals, I agree with that.
It's the systemic nature of the Michigan signal stealing that's the problem.
If you think NIL is a problem - wait until every team gets in the Signal Stealing Coordinator race and a whole technology business stream is created for support.
The facilities race is then joined by the cheating technology race.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

I am of the opinion that every major college has some form of this going on.

I am also of the opinion that every major program was paying players before NIL.

#Truth

 

[18IsTheMan]

Everybody tries to see if they can pick up a pattern regarding signals, I agree with that.
It's the systemic nature of the Michigan signal stealing that's the problem.
If you think NIL is a problem - wait until every team gets in the Signal Stealing Coordinator race and a whole technology business stream is created for support.
The facilities race is then joined by the cheating technology race.

I confess, I generally see things as black and white. I don't see greys.

To me, if you're cheating, you're cheating. If you're ok with some cheating, you need to be ok with all cheating.

 

[Deleted11512]

I confess, I generally see things as black and white. I don't see greys.

To me, if you're cheating, you're cheating. If you're ok with some cheating, you need to be ok with all cheating.

Then stealing is stealing, right? Speeding is speeding. You speed, you're a criminal. Doesn't matter if it's 5 over or 50 over, right? The world is not black and white. If you think someone calling you saying "hey, watch out for these few plays" is the same as a systematic cheating scheme, to the point of coaches on the sideline having print outs of your findings, then I can't help you. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Then stealing is stealing, right? Speeding is speeding. You speed, you're a criminal. Doesn't matter if it's 5 over or 50 over, right? The world is not black and white. If you think someone calling you saying "hey, watch out for these few plays" is the same as a systematic cheating scheme, to the point of coaches on the sideline having print outs of your findings, then I can't help you. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Of course I am speaking within the context of college football, which is entertainment and, in the grand scheme of things, pointless.

 

[Deleted11512]

Well, the last analogy doesn't apply. The value of the item stolen obviously factors into the consideration of the offense.

In this case, what's worse: stealing signals or stealing play information? If you can distinguish between the two, you missed your calling in politics.

You don't see more value in knowing exactly what plays are going to be run based on signals than just knowing a team MIGHT run a few plays?

If Beamer conspired with this guy to dig up plays and give them to him, then it would be similar to a degree. But what we know about it is the guy called him, Beamer didn't know what the call was going to be about, and the guy said hey, they're probably going to run these plays. Beamer said he didn't do anything with it. There was an investigation, and it didn't turn up anything that was contrary to what Beamer said. The only thing Beamer did wrong was not reporting the call to VT admin.

This guy paid for people to travel to games, video the sideline, and had printouts of signals for the coaching staff to use during the game. He was there, right beside the DC/Harbaugh relaying what their opponents were going to do based on the signals. These two scenarios are on in the same galaxy.

 

[Prestonyte]

You don't see more value in knowing exactly what plays are going to be run based on signals than just knowing a team MIGHT run a few plays?

If Beamer conspired with this guy to dig up plays and give them to him, then it would be similar to a degree. But what we know about it is the guy called him, Beamer didn't know what the call was going to be about, and the guy said hey, they're probably going to run these plays. Beamer said he didn't do anything with it. There was an investigation, and it didn't turn up anything that was contrary to what Beamer said. The only thing Beamer did wrong was not reporting the call to VT admin.

This guy paid for people to travel to games, video the sideline, and had printouts of signals for the coaching staff to use during the game. He was there, right beside the DC/Harbaugh relaying what their opponents were going to do based on the signals. These two scenarios are on in the same galaxy.

I agree.
And it will damage the game of college football as I elaborated on in post #15 above.
Cheating will become the new arms race of college football if the NCAA doesn't stop this by severely punishing Michigan/Harbaugh.

 

[Tusi21!!]

From a utjrjr person on another board.
Apparently USC paid Michigan for Tennessee's signals, and USC wore wrist bands for the first time in that game. Apparently there's a paper trail.

My guy who works in the SEC office said there's a legit investigation and people are pissed because this cost the SEC having two teams in the playoff last year.

Direct quotes from my guy:

"People are livid. They're investigating with prejudice."

"With conference realignment there's an opportunity here to replace USC with a better football program. Depending on how egregious the findings end up being I would not be surprised to see USC kicked out in favor of Clemson. It wouldn't be the first time the SEC has kicked out a member."

Beamer is cooked for sure. I'll have to see it to believe it with USC getting the boot. What a bad time to **** up like this though, when all these conferences are trying to upgrade

@Chris Clark

 

[18IsTheMan]

From a utjrjr person on another board.
Apparently USC paid Michigan for Tennessee's signals, and USC wore wrist bands for the first time in that game. Apparently there's a paper trail.

My guy who works in the SEC office said there's a legit investigation and people are pissed because this cost the SEC having two teams in the playoff last year.

Direct quotes from my guy:

"People are livid. They're investigating with prejudice."

"With conference realignment there's an opportunity here to replace USC with a better football program. Depending on how egregious the findings end up being I would not be surprised to see USC kicked out in favor of Clemson. It wouldn't be the first time the SEC has kicked out a member."

Beamer is cooked for sure. I'll have to see it to believe it with USC getting the boot. What a bad time to **** up like this though, when all these conferences are trying to upgrade

lol "my guy"

 

[Tusi21!!]

lol "my guy"

Said the same thing. Sounds like a fans letter. I tagged @Chris Clark wanted to see if he's heard anything about it.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

So, if someone calls your kid and says "hey bruh, on the test this afternoon question 8 is C, 9 is b"....you think that's the same as if your kid had an elaborate cheating scheme where he set up cameras in the classroom to video the actual test so he can know exactly what questions are going to be asked?? Come on man. That's absurd. If someone steals a stick of gum, is it the same as stealing a car? Nope.

Yes cheating is cheating. If both were caught they would be disciplined the same.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

Everybody tries to see if they can pick up a pattern regarding signals, I agree with that.
It's the systemic nature of the Michigan signal stealing that's the problem.
If you think NIL is a problem - wait until every team gets in the Signal Stealing Coordinator race and a whole technology business stream is created for support.
The facilities race is then joined by the cheating technology race.

Oh AI will eventually make it into this game if it already hasn’t.

 

[Chris Clark]

Said the same thing. Sounds like a fans letter. I tagged @Chris Clark wanted to see if he's heard anything about it.

Other than Tennessee fans saying this stuff online, I haven't heard anything about it, no.

 

[Spinal Tap]

And wait friends! There's more...

This is from Out Kick.

A new accusation has now surfaced, and it could drag more teams into the mix. FootballScoop dropped a bombshell report “that Michigan may have attempted to assist the opposition of a potential CFP opponent in an effort to disrupt that team’s potential path to the Playoff.”

The same report from FootballScoop claims Michigan scouted at least Georgia and Tennessee in the SEC, but doesn’t specify what programs Michigan might have attempted to help or if the help was accepted. The Bulldogs famously crushed Michigan in the CFP in 2021.

A Michigan official told OutKick the program wouldn’t be commenting on the allegation of giving out signs due to the ongoing investigation.

 

[Deleted11512]

And wait friends! There's more...

This is from Out Kick.

A new accusation has now surfaced, and it could drag more teams into the mix. FootballScoop dropped a bombshell report “that Michigan may have attempted to assist the opposition of a potential CFP opponent in an effort to disrupt that team’s potential path to the Playoff.”

The same report from FootballScoop claims Michigan scouted at least Georgia and Tennessee in the SEC, but doesn’t specify what programs Michigan might have attempted to help or if the help was accepted. The Bulldogs famously crushed Michigan in the CFP in 2021.

A Michigan official told OutKick the program wouldn’t be commenting on the allegation of giving out signs due to the ongoing investigation.

FootballScoop?? Nah, I'll wait on another more reputable source before jumping on that one.

 

[Prestonyte]

There is obviously a lot of there, there.
And a lot more than the one individual involved.

Report: Outside firm gave NCAA evidence of Michigan's sign-stealing scheme to trigger investigation

The Washington Post is reporting that the NCAA’s inquiry into a sign-stealing scheme by Michigan’s football program was triggered by an outside firm’s investigation

accesswdun.com

 

[henders90_]

From a utjrjr person on another board.
Apparently USC paid Michigan for Tennessee's signals, and USC wore wrist bands for the first time in that game. Apparently there's a paper trail.

My guy who works in the SEC office said there's a legit investigation and people are pissed because this cost the SEC having two teams in the playoff last year.

Direct quotes from my guy:

"People are livid. They're investigating with prejudice."

"With conference realignment there's an opportunity here to replace USC with a better football program. Depending on how egregious the findings end up being I would not be surprised to see USC kicked out in favor of Clemson. It wouldn't be the first time the SEC has kicked out a member."

Beamer is cooked for sure. I'll have to see it to believe it with USC getting the boot. What a bad time to **** up like this though, when all these conferences are trying to upgrade

@Chris Clark

Might be the first time we've had some success from cheating

Yugeee if true!

 

[Deleted11512]

There is obviously a lot of there, there.
And a lot more than the one individual involved.

Report: Outside firm gave NCAA evidence of Michigan's sign-stealing scheme to trigger investigation

The Washington Post is reporting that the NCAA’s inquiry into a sign-stealing scheme by Michigan’s football program was triggered by an outside firm’s investigation

accesswdun.com

Yeah...it's a criminal investigation ongoing due to the alleged hacking of TOSU systems to obtain their practice footage and game film. The scouting doesn't fall into scope, so they dropped it off by the NCAA. Cheers!

 

[Yard_Pimps]

There is a lot there and some that may include Beamer in the tenn and Clemson game. But all rumors at this point. It’s been confirmed the assistant attended Tenn and Clemson games.

 

[Deleted11512]

There is a lot there and some that may include Beamer in the tenn and Clemson game.

Doubtful...but if so, give him a dam raise. Playing for keeps. Now just point some of that shady stuff towards portal and lets roll!!

 

[18IsTheMan]

There is a lot there and some that may include Beamer in the tenn and Clemson game.

lol, it'll be funny to see Gamecock fans suddenly backtrack on this if it were found out we were given info from UM.

 

[Prestonyte]

lol, it'll be funny to see Gamecock fans suddenly backtrack on this if it were found out we were given info from UM.

If you watched the game, there was no info needed from the opening drive.

 

[18IsTheMan]

If you watched the game, there was no info needed from the opening drive.

We know from Beamer's past that he's not above taking a little inside info.

Our season and maybe his future was on the line.

Maybe he got desperate.

Unlikely to be the case, but it sure would be a hoot to see posters on here do an about face on the issue.

 

[Deleted11512]

If you watched the game, there was no info needed from the opening drive.

Joseph Griffin is pretty good. He confirmed, on O we just got to the line and ran a play. Didn't even check to the sideline much at all, and when we did, we didn't change the play.

 

[Deleted11512]

We know from Beamer's past that he's not above taking a little inside info.

Our season and maybe his future was on the line.

Maybe he got desperate.

Unlikely to be the case, but it sure would be a hoot to see posters on here do an about face on the issue.

It would depend on how it happened for me. It's not uncommon for coaches to share intel about opponents. As far as I know, that's not against NCAA regulations. If it did happen, I highly doubt UM would just tell people how they got the info. Now, if Beamer got the info, and knew how UM obtained it, I would have a problem with that.

 

[Tusi21!!]

It would depend on how it happened for me. It's not uncommon for coaches to share intel about opponents. As far as I know, that's not against NCAA regulations. If it did happen, I highly doubt UM would just tell people how they got the info. Now, if Beamer got the info, and knew how UM obtained it, I would have a problem with that.

It's common practice to call up other coaches is it not?