FC/OT: Infuriating story of US technology being 'given' to China by DOE and a dishonest scientist....

[Midnighter]

Just an absolute clusterf*ck of a story. The quick and dirty is a US government lab in Washington state develops an innovative and impressive battery technology and the lead developer applies for a license to manufacture and sell them. The license states the batteries must be 'substantially made' in the US and a certain amount should be sold there. The lead developer, Gary Yang (Chinese born American citizen), starts a company in America, hires employees, but soon runs out of investors. What does he do? Link up with a Chinese company and eventually transfers his license, and company, there. It seems like he failed to disclose the location of his license to DOE but they also did not seem too keen, or capable, to do a lot of oversight (he also eventually transfers the license to a company in the EU). Eventually, all this technology is being made by a company in China while US companies have been denied licenses to make them domestically. And now (this happened beginning in 2012 through 2021), China is the world leader in manufacturing this technology and likely will not stop despite having the license recently revoked. DOE is doing an internal investigation, but way too late for US companies to catch up IMO.

Infuriating.

 

[91Joe95]

They're not bad folks, folks.

 

[Nohow]

So many things to be outraged about.

 

[PrtLng Lion]

Getting our tech, buying up properties in the US, sole source for many pharma products, .... China is going to have us by the b-lls very soon at the rate it's going. If they take Taiwan and inhibit Taiwan Semi from exporting chips to the US we'll have even bigger problems.

 

[91Joe95]

If you were to imagine how a true Manchurian candidate would act what do you think it would entail?

 

[Tom McAndrew]

The U.S. made a breakthrough battery discovery — then gave the technology to China

Taxpayers spent $15 million on research to build a breakthrough battery. Then the U.S. government gave it to China.

www.opb.org

 

[Midnighter]

The U.S. made a breakthrough battery discovery — then gave the technology to China

Taxpayers spent $15 million on research to build a breakthrough battery. Then the U.S. government gave it to China.

www.opb.org

Thanks for linking the story Tom - didn’t realize I only linked the audio.

 

[NB4PSU]

Getting our tech, buying up properties in the US, sole source for many pharma products, .... China is going to have us by the b-lls very soon at the rate it's going. If they take Taiwan and inhibit Taiwan Semi from exporting chips to the US we'll have even bigger problems.

Thankfully we don't need China for batteries (y'know, for our EV toys) or pharm stuff or windmill parts/equipment cuz if we did we'd sure as hell be fooked if they decided we weren't best buddies anymore. Whew, dodged a bullet there!

Wait... whut? Oh damn, yet again i didn't get the memo. Insert Picard palm hell to forhead slap.

Or....

 

[BobPSU92]

I’m sure it’s all just a misunderstanding.

 

[razpsu]

Next question is when will China take Taiwan. Im not sure why they haven’t because there is nothing we can do about it. If they do then they have 50 percent of semiconductor market. Ouch. I still use my transistor radio for golf pool etc and friends laugh. Well, it maybe needed after all.

 

[PSUJam]

Next question is when will China take Taiwan. Im not sure why they haven’t because there is nothing we can do about it. If they do then they have 50 percent of semiconductor market. Ouch. I still use my transition radio for golf pool etc and friends laugh. Well, it maybe needed after all.

What's the frequency Kenneth?

 

[Moogy]

Next question is when will China take Taiwan. Im not sure why they haven’t because there is nothing we can do about it. If they do then they have 50 percent of semiconductor market. Ouch. I still use my transition radio for golf pool etc and friends laugh. Well, it maybe needed after all.

What are you transitioning into?

 

[razpsu]

What are you transitioning into?

Stupid spell check. Hahaha

 

[DavidM]

If you were to imagine how a true Manchurian candidate would act what do you think it would entail?

I'd imagine somebody hiding his face behind orange coloring, and acting transparently seditious.

 

[nittanyfan333]

Getting our tech, buying up properties in the US, sole source for many pharma products, .... China is going to have us by the b-lls very soon at the rate it's going. If they take Taiwan and inhibit Taiwan Semi from exporting chips to the US we'll have even bigger problems.

Everyone needs to realize that the properties that China is buying aren't random. they're all strategic. and not just in the US, but worldwide.

https://www.hotelmanagement.net/transactions/blackstone-cancels-sale-san-diego-s-hotel-del-coronado-to-anbang

Red Clydeside: Chinese tycoon buys hotel overlooking nuclear subs at Faslane as global security experts urge vigilance - The Sunday Post

The £2 million purchase of a hotel overlooking Faslane’s nuclear submarines by a Chinese businessman is raising concern in intelligence circles, experts reveal today.

www.sundaypost.com

CNN Exclusive: FBI investigation determined Chinese-made Huawei equipment could disrupt US nuclear arsenal communications

On paper, it looked like a fantastic deal. In 2017, the Chinese government was offering to spend $100 million to build an ornate Chinese garden at the National Arboretum in Washington DC. Complete with temples, pavilions and a 70-foot white pagoda, the project thrilled local officials, who hoped...

www.cnn.com

 

[91Joe95]

I'd imagine somebody hiding his face behind orange coloring, and acting transparently seditious.

I like your vivid and wild imagination. Me, personally, I'd be more inclined towards something like unilaterally shutting down the anti-espionage program targeting the Chinese stealing of intellectual property, unilaterally removing tariffs on Chinese imports, failing to go after Chinese made fentanyl that kills 100K+ healthy US adults every year, covering up the origins of a virus that killed 1MM+ US citizens, selling America's strategic reserves of oil to the Chinese, sending loads of US taxpayer dollars to the Chinese in the name of environmental agendas, having a family business selling access to the official Chinese communist party, etc, etc. Of all the things to get upset about, we worry about some minor battery tech. Ok.

 

[Woodpecker]

If you were to imagine how a true Manchurian candidate would act what do you think it would entail?

91Joe95 is the kindest, warmest, bravest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life

 

[Nohow]

I like your vivid and wild imagination. Me, personally, I'd be more inclined towards something like unilaterally shutting down the anti-espionage program targeting the Chinese stealing of intellectual property, unilaterally removing tariffs on Chinese imports, failing to go after Chinese made fentanyl that kills 100K+ healthy US adults every year, covering up the origins of a virus that killed 1MM+ US citizens, selling America's strategic reserves of oil to the Chinese, sending loads of US taxpayer dollars to the Chinese in the name of environmental agendas, having a family business selling access to the official Chinese communist party, etc, etc. Of all the things to get upset about, we worry about some minor battery tech. Ok.

Take it to the Cesspo-, er, I mean Test Board, ahole.

 

[Midnighter]

I like your vivid and wild imagination. Me, personally, I'd be more inclined towards something like unilaterally shutting down the anti-espionage program targeting the Chinese stealing of intellectual property, unilaterally removing tariffs on Chinese imports, failing to go after Chinese made fentanyl that kills 100K+ healthy US adults every year, covering up the origins of a virus that killed 1MM+ US citizens, selling America's strategic reserves of oil to the Chinese, sending loads of US taxpayer dollars to the Chinese in the name of environmental agendas, having a family business selling access to the official Chinese communist party, etc, etc. Of all the things to get upset about, we worry about some minor battery tech. Ok.

The 'worry' isn't that this is more important than anything else, but rather a stunning example of ineptitude that willfully transferred cutting edge American technology (and jobs) to China.

Look - until anyone hold corporate America accountable for operating in China, and no one will, we're nothing but enablers. China's power was built on the backs of ill gotten manufacturing jobs and American IP.

 

[Nohow]

So much outrage, so little time. Of all the things in the world to be outraged about, this surely doesn’t rank in the top 10, maybe not in the top 100.

 

[91Joe95]

Look - until anyone hold corporate America accountable for operating in China, and no one will, we're nothing but enablers.

No one?

 

[91Joe95]

91Joe95 is the kindest, warmest, bravest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life

Fake news.

 

[91Joe95]

A little context.

FBI Director Wray says scale of Chinese spying in the U.S. 'blew me away'

The FBI opens a new China-related counterintelligence investigation every 12 hours on average, and it now has over 2,000 such cases.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Nitlion93]

We “wasted” two decades in the Middle East while China was building up their industry, defense, technology, and financial sectors mostly stolen from the US or while we were distracted. Even Now, all we can do is squabble over the most mundane things and weaken ourselves when we are so blind to this giant threat.

 

[MacNit]

Next question is when will China take Taiwan. Im not sure why they haven’t because there is nothing we can do about it. If they do then they have 50 percent of semiconductor market. Ouch. I still use my transistor radio for golf pool etc and friends laugh. Well, it maybe needed after all.

They may not have the necessary amphibious forces. And keep in mind that the Chinese have not fired significant shots in anger since ~1979 against Vietnam.

And Taiwan is motivated and have advanced US weapon systems.

But it is just a matter of time…I would say they will try before 2024 US elections.

 

[Moogy]

We “wasted” two decades in the Middle East while China was building up their industry, defense, technology, and financial sectors mostly stolen from the US or while we were distracted. Even Now, all we can do is squabble over the most mundane things and weaken ourselves when we are so blind to this giant threat.

Exactly. Focusing everything on tearing down the media, tearing down the government itself, heck, trying to destroy basic democratic functioning and pushing a protest candidate whose sole purpose was to mock and destroy reality as a sideshow while real **** is going down that needs to be handled by focused adults, rather than a whiny narcissistic child spewing platitudes. We should have wrapped up the Middle East and focused on Russia and China ... but, we were too busy "winning" at losing.

 

[Nitt1300]

Everyone needs to realize that the properties that China is buying aren't random. they're all strategic. and not just in the US, but worldwide.

https://www.hotelmanagement.net/transactions/blackstone-cancels-sale-san-diego-s-hotel-del-coronado-to-anbang

Red Clydeside: Chinese tycoon buys hotel overlooking nuclear subs at Faslane as global security experts urge vigilance - The Sunday Post

The £2 million purchase of a hotel overlooking Faslane’s nuclear submarines by a Chinese businessman is raising concern in intelligence circles, experts reveal today.

www.sundaypost.com

CNN Exclusive: FBI investigation determined Chinese-made Huawei equipment could disrupt US nuclear arsenal communications

On paper, it looked like a fantastic deal. In 2017, the Chinese government was offering to spend $100 million to build an ornate Chinese garden at the National Arboretum in Washington DC. Complete with temples, pavilions and a 70-foot white pagoda, the project thrilled local officials, who hoped...

www.cnn.com

China has always played the long game, while we obsess over the daily close of the market.

 

[91Joe95]

China has always played the long game, while we obsess over the daily close of the market.

Which works out nicely for American politicians since by the time the **** hits the fan they're gone.

 

[Moogy]

Which works out nicely for American politicians since by the time the **** hits the fan they're gone.

I thought the problem was American politicians are lifers, sticking around to get rich, doing nothing but taking bribes and the such?

 

[91Joe95]

I thought the problem was American politicians are lifers, sticking around to get rich, doing nothing but taking bribes and the such?

They're not mutually exclusive, especially in relation to the Chinese. Mid 1990's ring a bell?

 

[Nitt1300]

the problem is the voters - the idiots who keep putting the same aholes into office again and again

 

[Moogy]

They're not mutually exclusive, especially in relation to the Chinese. Mid 1990's ring a bell?

Ah, so the problems are that politicians are there too long and not long enough. They shouldn't stay and they shouldn't go. Otherwise, they'll get attacked by folks like you just for existing.

 

[91Joe95]

Ah, so the problems are that politicians are there too long and not long enough. They shouldn't stay and they shouldn't go. Otherwise, they'll get attacked by folks like you just for existing.

Wouldn't it just have been easier for you to admit you didn't know about previous Chinese grievances with Taiwan and how they affect today's actions? That's the long game you can't seem to grasp.

 

[PSU73]

This is indeed a clustermuck, but there's more to the details that isn't clear.
1. The article says "The lab and the U.S. government still hold the patents, because U.S. taxpayers paid for the research."
2 The mentions of the license (and sub-license) don't reference world-wide exclusivity, which would be highly unusual, but do seem to specify restrictions and compliance requirements as is normal. Also, there is always some 'payment' for the license which could include an up-front fee and an ongoing royalty. None of this is mentioned.

The key here is that the US still holds the patents and appears it could pursue this at any time it so wants domestically, if there was any interest to do so; but, for some reason it appears there isn't, which I think is more than just investment money.

 

[Moogy]

Wouldn't it just have been easier for you to admit you didn't know about previous Chinese grievances with Taiwan and how they affect today's actions? That's the long game you can't seem to grasp.

That topic is completely irrelevant to the point of complaining to complain about politicians. "The problem with politicians is that they make it a career, and they get rich there and lose touch with their constituency." "The problem with politicians is that they don't stick around. They can leave when they make a mess." Same people, just looking to bash. It's beyond tedious. In fact, it's extremely harmful.

I'm well aware of the China-Taiwan situation.

 

[Midnighter]

This is indeed a clustermuck, but there's more to the details that isn't clear.
1. The article says "The lab and the U.S. government still hold the patents, because U.S. taxpayers paid for the research."
2 The mentions of the license (and sub-license) don't reference world-wide exclusivity, which would be highly unusual, but do seem to specify restrictions and compliance requirements as is normal. Also, there is always some 'payment' for the license which could include an up-front fee and an ongoing royalty. None of this is mentioned.

The key here is that the US still holds the patents and appears it could pursue this at any time it so wants domestically, if there was any interest to do so; but, for some reason it appears there isn't, which I think is more than just investment money.

1. Patents mean two things in China - Jack and sh*t.

2. It doesn’t, but does mention that US companies were not able to get licenses while the one company that got one ran to China with it.

 

[PSU73]

1. Patents mean two things in China - Jack and sh*t.

2. It doesn’t, but does mention that US companies were not able to get licenses while the one company that got one ran to China with it.

Agree. Trademarks too in China mean nothing, but I'm puzzled by the domestic question. I understand the point that 'catching up' would be a huge obstacle, but why would US companies be denied licenses if the US Government is the Patent holder? The US Lab has defaulted on the original terms of their license, so they would have no say in preventing a license to someone in the US. Has to be dirty politics here...your point all along,

 

[Midnighter]

Agree. Trademarks too in China mean nothing, but I'm puzzled by the domestic question. I understand the point that 'catching up' would be a huge obstacle, but why would US companies be denied licenses if the US Government is the Patent holder? The US Lab has defaulted on the original terms of their license, so they would have no say in preventing a license to someone in the US. Has to be dirty politics here...your point all along,

I think the claim/concern is companies in China have been investing in and building this technology for several years while US companies couldn’t. So, like joining the internet with MySpace after Facebook has been around for a decade.

 

[91Joe95]

I think the claim/concern is companies in China have been investing in and building this technology for several years while US companies couldn’t. So, like joining the internet with MySpace after Facebook has been around for a decade.

Manufacturing is not similar to marketing on the internet.

 

[Got GSPs]

I’ve been to China many times. Have spent collectively about 4 or 5 months there. I’m convinced that being a trade partner with China is going to destroy the us economy. I’m opposed to tarries, but anyone who takes new technology to China for manufacturing is basically giving China the design. It’s likely too late to change, but this needs to be something every American is aware of. China is a bigger threat to the US because of business than Russia today.