FC/OT: Relationship between recruiting and winning 2014 - 2023.

[BW Lion]

It's a very simple except if you're James Franklin. There are only three (3) considerations:

X) Big Winning generally begets big recruiting.

Y) Big Recruiting generally begets Big Winning, but not always. (PSU is the corollary}

Z) Coaching still matters. It's inconsequential if you get lucky and win a few games you shouldn't and/or over-recruit, it's how you coach the next class up {or don't in CJF's case}.

PSU has no one else to blame but James.

 

[PSUJam]

What was happening prior to NIL? Think Franklin only had one top ten class; otherwise, about the same as always. Think that trend continues this year (or so it seems thus far).

We were getting some 5 stars now and then. Not anymore!

 

[Midnighter]

We were getting some 5 stars now and then. Not anymore!

Who was our last five star? Cousins?

 

[BW Lion]

We were periodically getting some 5 stars now and then. Not anymore!

You're not donating enough! Open that e-wallet.

 

[laKavosiey-st lion]

No one cares that your boyfriend is named Peake Manana.

Enjoy your work commute

 

[PSUJam]

Who was our last five star? Cousins?

Singleton, Allar, and DDS were composite On3 5 star off the top of my head. Cousins was as well but just with On3 not composite(taking the 4 recruiting services into consideration).

 

[Moogy]

Enjoy your work commute

Wut? You poor thing.

 

[laKavosiey-st lion]

Poor?

 

[BobPSU92]

Me as well. It's all in good fun with most guys here.

Most.

 

[Moogy]

It's a very simple except if you're James Franklin. There are only three (3) considerations:

X) Big Winning generally begets big recruiting.

Y) Big Recruiting generally begets Big Winning, but not always. (PSU is the corollary}

Z) Coaching still matters. It's inconsequential if you get lucky and win a few games you shouldn't and/or over-recruit, it's how you coach the next class up {or don't in CJF's case}.

PSU has no one else to blame but James.

Except this chart clearly shows Franklin is NOT underproducing with this club. He's recruiting at a quality clip and winning at a quality clip. So, yes, PSU can "blame" Franklin for turning PSU football back into a high quality performing organization. And they have done so by extending him.

And, yet, you pout like a spoiled child ... REPEATEDLY ... over this fact, Veruca.

 

[BobPSU92]

Isn’t it our fault that we aren’t getting better, which we deserve? We give more for NIL. , Franklin gets better players, we win more. It’s our fault. Franklin has even plead to us to give more for NIL. .

We only have ourselves to blame.

 

[GrimReaper]

Except this chart clearly shows Franklin is NOT underproducing with this club. He's recruiting at a quality clip and winning at a quality clip. So, yes, PSU can "blame" Franklin for turning PSU football back into a high quality performing organization. And they have done so by extending him.

And, yet, you pout like a spoiled child ... REPEATEDLY ... over this fact, Veruca.

Except that in the upper left not-quite quadrant bounded by 8 on the horizontal and 30 on the vertical, PSU is the only team that hasn't made the playoff.

 

[Moogy]

Except that in the upper left not-quite quadrant bounded by 8 on the horizontal and 30 on the vertical, PSU is the only team that hasn't made the playoff.

Oh noes! We're a victim of circumstance in that respect, and not having that "one" season isn't a differentiating factor. If we had one more win in a near-playoff season, and made it ... and one more loss in another season, would that markedly change Franklin's performance? Obviously, no.

I'll take back-to-back 10-win "regular seasons" and a preseason outlook of about the same. You Verucas can cry about OSU, UM and the playoff.

 

[PSUSignore]

Oh noes! We're a victim of circumstance in that respect, and not having that "one" season isn't a differentiating factor. If we had one more win in a near-playoff season, and made it ... and one more loss in another season, would that markedly change Franklin's performance? Obviously, no.

I'll take back-to-back 10-win "regular seasons" and a preseason outlook of about the same. You Verucas can cry about OSU, UM and the playoff.

This. People talk like a playoff berth means you have a top program and coach. MSU made the playoff and I wouldn't even consider them close to PSU's stature in coaching or program health.

 

[VaDave4PSU]

This. People talk like a playoff berth means you have a top program and coach. MSU made the playoff and I wouldn't even consider them close to PSU's stature in coaching or program health.

I understand the thought process behind this and yes, it's absolutely true: nobody here is willing to trade Sparty's 1 playoff berth for the entirety of how they played during the 4 team playoff era vs how PSU did.

At the same time, Franklin does feel a lot like the Mark Richt time at UGA: 8-9-10 win teams, but never getting over the hump and playing for the national title. It's just the reality of the situation. We don't have to have the exact run Michigan just finished, but we need to beat OSU once in the next 3 years as well as Michigan and Oregon once over the next 4 years.

 

[GrimReaper]

Oh noes! We're a victim of circumstance in that respect, and not having that "one" season isn't a differentiating factor. If we had one more win in a near-playoff season, and made it ... and one more loss in another season, would that markedly change Franklin's performance? Obviously, no.

I'll take back-to-back 10-win "regular seasons" and a preseason outlook of about the same. You Verucas can cry about OSU, UM and the playoff.

Rationalize all you want. PSU didn't make the playoff. Good chance they will make it this year, but you won't have to worry about holding your breath until they exit.

 

[Grant Green]

This. People talk like a playoff berth means you have a top program and coach. MSU made the playoff and I wouldn't even consider them close to PSU's stature in coaching or program health.

It's not that making the playoffs mean you have a good program/coach. It's that having a good coach/program means you should be making a playoff here and there. Some of that can be chalked up to bad luck, but it's pretty fair to say that some of it is due to poor performance (coaching and/or playing). All of the teams in our sphere have been to the playoffs and two have won it all.

 

[Moogy]

Rationalize all you want. PSU didn't make the playoff. Good chance they will make it this year, but you won't have to worry about holding your breath until they exit.

You're the one doing the rationalizing ... you saw a clump of teams that have done well in recruiting and well on the field of play, and had to rationalize why PSU wasn't as good as them. "Well, uh, uh, uh ... PSU didn't make a playoff and the others did! Yeah, that's the ticket!" I simply explained why your rationalization wasn't meaningful.

 

[GrimReaper]

You're the one doing the rationalizing ... you saw a clump of teams that have done well in recruiting and well on the field of play, and had to rationalize why PSU wasn't as good as them. "Well, uh, uh, uh ... PSU didn't make a playoff and the others did! Yeah, that's the ticket!" I simply explained why your rationalization wasn't meaningful.

The objective is to win championships. Don't believe me? Ask Mr. Elite.

 

[Shadow99]

There are about 9 teams with significantly better average recruiting classes that PSU has outperformed...

The majority of recent PSU losses were against teams with higher rated recruiting classes...

 

[GrimReaper]

There are about 9 teams with significantly better average recruiting classes that PSU has outperformed...

The majority of recent PSU losses were against teams with higher rated recruiting classes...

And no hardware to show for it.

Maybe the solution is to get better recruits. Isn't that part of a coach's responsibility?

 

[NoSoup4U]

And no hardware to show for it.

Maybe the solution is to get better recruits. Isn't that part of a coach's responsibility?

or at least coach them up into being better than their "rating"

...also a coach's responsibility

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Penn State became the Seattle Mariners of college football under Franklin. They posted a good w/l record, but upon examination they rarely won a game that really mattered.

Now that the game is professional minor league football I don’t mind that level of mediocrity.

I realized the other day that for the first time since 1965 I could not name the starting team players. I don’t care enough to make the effort.
Apparently I am not alone.

I suggest that the University be careful about spending hundreds of millions on stadium improvements. Michigan and tOSU have established that PSU is a distant 3rd in the B1G. When USC and Oregon, perhaps UW, drops the team to 5th or 6th those crowds are going to shrink.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Vandy went to pot after JF left!

I don’t think Franklin is a bad coach. He is just not “elite”.

 

[BobPSU92]

EIGHT. MORE. YEARS.

 

[Moogy]

The objective is to win championships. Don't believe me? Ask Mr. Elite.

Great. Then Joe Paterno was a complete and utter failure for the overwhelming portion of his career. Almost every coach in the history of sports sucks every year. Tragic, really. The horra.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Great. Then Joe Paterno was a complete and utter failure for the overwhelming portion of his career. Almost every coach in the history of sports sucks every year. Tragic, really. The horra.

I don't see him saying that at all. I get it, you want to twist things to make your defense. Franklin just is not elite. That's not a bad thing. But don't drag Joe Paterno into this. He coached in four bowl games, and won two of them, that had national championship implications. He had four other teams with undefeated records that did not get voted in as national champions. Comparing Franklin to Paterno is not fair to either of them.

 

[Moogy]

I don't see him saying that at all. I get it, you want to twist things to make your defense. Franklin just is not elite. That's not a bad thing. But don't drag Joe Paterno into this. He coached in four bowl games, and won two of them, that had national championship implications. He had four other teams with undefeated records that did not get voted in as national champions. Comparing Franklin to Paterno is not fair to either of them.

It's always fun to read the words of a JoeBot.

I'm not comparing Franklin to Paterno ... that's you. I'm using the criteria stated by another party to compare every coach in the history of the game, including JoePa himself, based on said criteria.

Franklin isn't elite. Franklin is very, very good. And I'm extremely happy to have him here. The program is in great shape under his stewardship. Would I like even more winning? Sure.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

I'm not comparing Franklin to Paterno ... that's you.

No, you did exactly that. You wrote, "Then Joe Paterno was a complete and utter failure..." Good grief.

 

[Moogy]

No, you did exactly that. You wrote, "Then Joe Paterno was a complete and utter failure..." Good grief.

Good grief is right. Again, for those hard of learning - I didn't compare Franklin to Paterno ... I judged Paterno (and every other coach in the history of sport) against the criteria set forth by the other poster. There was no direct comparison of Franklin to Paterno. Got it now, or are you going to continue Joebotting? For purposes of judging Franklin, I don't give a flip if Paterno was the bestest, or the worstest, coach everest in da world.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Good grief is right. Again, for those hard of learning - I didn't compare Franklin to Paterno ... I judged Paterno (and every other coach in the history of sport) against the criteria set forth by the other poster. There was no direct comparison of Franklin to Paterno. Got it now, or are you going to continue Joebotting? For purposes of judging Franklin, I don't give a flip if Paterno was the bestest, or the worstest, coach everest in da world.

No, that is exactly what you did. Read the entire post, you wrote it. You did not "judge", cute try to duck. You COMPARED the two. Just own it.

 

[Midnighter]

Keep an eye on USC; Riley went heavy into SEC territory to recruit this cycle and got pledges from two 5* DT's - both of whom have since decommitted, along with three other 4*'s - all from either Georgia, Florida, or Alabama. Oh - and they're all defensive players save one ATH. Seems there has been some issues with their NIL efforts too. And talk about 'dominate the state' - USC has only one commitment from a California Top 10 player and just two of the Top 20 - all others are committed elsewhere. Oregon killing it in California and word is Phil Knight wants a National Championship.

Meanwhile, in Georgia....

Great Wall of Georgia gets bigger: Average size of UGA's incoming offensive linemen is 6-foot-7, 340 pounds

Georgia's focus on the offensive line of scrimmage has keyed its unparalleled recent success and the 2024 Class, which belatedly added a 6-foot-10 player Monday, is further proof

www.cbssports.com

 

[laKavosiey-st lion]

Keep an eye on USC; Riley went heavy into SEC territory to recruit this cycle and got pledges from two 5* DT's - both of whom have since decommitted, along with three other 4*'s - all from either Georgia, Florida, or Alabama. Oh - and they're all defensive players save one ATH. Seems there has been some issues with their NIL efforts too. And talk about 'dominate the state' - USC has only one commitment from a California Top 10 player and just two of the Top 20 - all others are committed elsewhere. Oregon killing it in California and word is Phil Knight wants a National Championship.

Meanwhile, in Georgia....

Great Wall of Georgia gets bigger: Average size of UGA's incoming offensive linemen is 6-foot-7, 340 pounds

Georgia's focus on the offensive line of scrimmage has keyed its unparalleled recent success and the 2024 Class, which belatedly added a 6-foot-10 player Monday, is further proof

www.cbssports.com

And he shall have one. I look forward to State at O. These west trips are gonna be so fun.

 

[Moogy]

No, that is exactly what you did. Read the entire post, you wrote it. You did not "judge", cute try to duck. You COMPARED the two. Just own it.

LOL. No wonder you have to get up before the butt-crack of dawn and pound copious amounts of caffeine in order to eke out a living. You're lying here. I will repeat, since I wrote the post and know what I meant, and since I'm literate and can read the post and know what it actually states ... I didn't compare Franklin to Paterno ... I judged Paterno (and every other coach in the history of sport) against the criteria set forth by the other poster. There was no direct comparison of Franklin to Paterno. Why the hell would I NOT own it if I did compare them? I'm not scared to compare them. It's not some taboo thing. You'd win absolutely nothing and I'd lose absolutely nothing if I DID compare them (it's not sacrilegious to me to do so). I just didn't compare them. Stop JoeBotting.

 

[PSUSignore]

It's not that making the playoffs mean you have a good program/coach. It's that having a good coach/program means you should be making a playoff here and there. Some of that can be chalked up to bad luck, but it's pretty fair to say that some of it is due to poor performance (coaching and/or playing). All of the teams in our sphere have been to the playoffs and two have won it all.

Who are the teams "in our sphere?" The teams making the playoff all the time are not, they are a level better than PSU.

 

[Grant Green]

Who are the teams "in our sphere?" The teams making the playoff all the time are not, they are a level better than PSU.

I was referring to the cluster of teams around us int he graphic - UM, OU, Oregon, ND, LSU.

 

[GrimReaper]

Great. Then Joe Paterno was a complete and utter failure for the overwhelming portion of his career. Almost every coach in the history of sports sucks every year. Tragic, really. The horra.

You're right, coaches fail because they don't win national championships every year. We'll lower the bar for Franklin and declare him a success (we know he will) when he wins one.

 

[Midnighter]

There are about 9 teams with significantly better average recruiting classes that PSU has outperformed...

The majority of recent PSU losses were against teams with higher rated recruiting classes...

And the majority of recent PSU wins against teams with lower rated recruiting classes.

 

[Moogy]

You're right, coaches fail because they don't win national championships every year. We'll lower the bar for Franklin and declare him a success (we know he will) when he wins one.

I just can't wait to see the rationalizations and goal-post movements from the never-Franklins if he does actually win one ... "well, ya see .. uh, yeah, that was great and all, but it was a total fluke. Somebody was hurt and this team was down and the sun was in their eyes and, well, it took him too long and cost too much and I knew he'd do it all along ... I was just being tough on him and ... hey, that's my mom calling me for dinner ... gotta go!"

 

[Moogy]

And the majority of recent PSU wins against teams with lower rated recruiting classes.

Yeah, that's why Georgia, Alabama and OSU suck ... the majority of their recent wins are against teams with lower rated recruiting classes. And they lose to teams with lower rated recruiting classes.

Good lord, you guys are in rare never-Franklin trolling form.