FC/OT: Relationship between recruiting and winning 2014 - 2023.
- Thread starter Midnighter
- Start date
"....if he does actually win one......" Your demonstration of confidence in Franklin's coaching ability is overwhelming.
Exactly...recruiting is rightly a significant part of a coach's responsibility, but yet it is certainly NOT completely within a coach's control. Unfortunately, Penn State does not "recruit itself" as much as some seem to think it does. For some reason people are so desperate to risk becoming Nebraska (a historic program that has become a non-factor) based on a hope of becoming Georgia without having anything close to Georgia-level buy-in.
That said, CJF does not coach in a vacuum. It is not a peripheral topic or a distraction, but rather is integral to the discussion to discuss potential replacements. Which replacement coach is going to bring in consistent Top 5 classes (improving on the average 15 ranking) within PSU's current structure to get into the "Elite with Elite Talent" category? There must be at least an example of one real person that fans have in mind to realistically replace CJF that is perceived to be able to recruit better with PSU's existing resources or to foster great expansion of such buy-in and resources.
Concerning resources, Franklin has greatly benefitted PSU football by fighting to catch up on many things that get readily dismissed as excuses (lacking NIL as compared to schools with much better recruiting results) or mocked as trivial (such as having single-occupancy dorms and beds large enough for large athletes, which has directly affected relatively recent recruiting). So how will the new ideal coach manage things which are beyond the coach's control? Will they advocate for continued improvement as consistently and fervently as CJF has? Would someone like Rhule really open up the floodgates of donations? Will a new coach somehow recruit better than CJF even if the uphill battle remains because factors such as NIL do not continue to improve?
So even despite the intense frustration of some perceived coaching-influenced losses, many of which would have been upsets of teams with higher levels of talent (or of teams with much greater depth, wearing PSU out even if the starting talent was comparable), the overall results match or exceed the theoretical talent level.
For additional context, Florida State, A&M, Tennessee, Miami, Texas, Florida, Auburn, and USC all have done worse than PSU with theoretically more talent. Of the teams with similar average wins who supposedly do "more with less talent", Washington, Okla. St., and Utah have benefitted from weaker conferences and Wisconsin and Iowa have been in the B1G western division, which NEVER won the conference title during that format.
Not sure why there is a false equivalency drawn between recognizing Franklin's SIGNIFICANT accomplishments with "Franklin can do no wrong" or "CJF never makes a mistake or bad decision".
Yes, there have been blunders, but imho there is no reason to think that PSU would be better off without Franklin's recruiting / coaching / NIL & facilities advocacy.Most on this board genuinely want improvement, despite which side of the CJF discussion they may fall. That said, considering the current inherent recruiting disadvantages, Franklin's demonstrated ability to recruit respectable classes despite such disadvantages, the tie between recruiting and results exhibited by the chart, and without having Georgia level support / involvement / buy-in / prioritization, it seems that scapegoating and removing CJF would be more likely to lead backwards toward Nebraska results than forward toward Georgia results.
No. You donāt speak in a language that no one understands and refer to yourself in third person. Youāre
Well put. Most want to see that next step but some can see where there is some deficiencies at PSU as to why they aren't beating more talented teams at a higher clip.....but nobody really does overall in the long run in that scenario. However pointing that out is taboo or "making excuses". So basically the line has now moved MNC or bust for the most part so while Joe was saying the expectations were too great, now we have a problem that the coaching is winning so often it's MNC or bust. LOL, some people cannot see those trees smack dab in the middle of that forest, but they make it make sense in their own head.Exactly...recruiting is rightly a significant part of a coach's responsibility, but yet it is certainly NOT completely within a coach's control. Unfortunately, Penn State does not "recruit itself" as much as some seem to think it does. For some reason people are so desperate to risk becoming Nebraska (a historic program that has become a non-factor) based on a hope of becoming Georgia without having anything close to Georgia-level buy-in.
That said, CJF does not coach in a vacuum. It is not a peripheral topic or a distraction, but rather is integral to the discussion to discuss potential replacements. Which replacement coach is going to bring in consistent Top 5 classes (improving on the average 15 ranking) within PSU's current structure to get into the "Elite with Elite Talent" category? There must be at least an example of one real person that fans have in mind to realistically replace CJF that is perceived to be able to recruit better with PSU's existing resources or to foster great expansion of such buy-in and resources.
Concerning resources, Franklin has greatly benefitted PSU football by fighting to catch up on many things that get readily dismissed as excuses (lacking NIL as compared to schools with much better recruiting results) or mocked as trivial (such as having single-occupancy dorms and beds large enough for large athletes, which has directly affected relatively recent recruiting). So how will the new ideal coach manage things which are beyond the coach's control? Will they advocate for continued improvement as consistently and fervently as CJF has? Would someone like Rhule really open up the floodgates of donations? Will a new coach somehow recruit better than CJF even if the uphill battle remains because factors such as NIL do not continue to improve?
So even despite the intense frustration of some perceived coaching-influenced losses, many of which would have been upsets of teams with higher levels of talent (or of teams with much greater depth, wearing PSU out even if the starting talent was comparable), the overall results match or exceed the theoretical talent level.
For additional context, Florida State, A&M, Tennessee, Miami, Texas, Florida, Auburn, and USC all have done worse than PSU with theoretically more talent. Of the teams with similar average wins who supposedly do "more with less talent", Washington, Okla. St., and Utah have benefitted from weaker conferences and Wisconsin and Iowa have been in the B1G western division, which NEVER won the conference title during that format.
Not sure why there is a false equivalency drawn between recognizing Franklin's SIGNIFICANT accomplishments with "Franklin can do no wrong" or "CJF never makes a mistake or bad decision".
Most on this board genuinely want improvement, despite which side of the CJF discussion they may fall. That said, considering the current inherent recruiting disadvantages, Franklin's demonstrated ability to recruit respectable classes despite such disadvantages, the tie between recruiting and results exhibited by the chart, and without having Georgia level support / involvement / buy-in / prioritization, it seems that scapegoating and removing CJF would be more likely to lead backwards toward Nebraska results than forward toward Georgia results.
I'm fully behind you on 'Franklin has to prove it', but Larry Coker, Ed Orgeron, Gene Chizik, Jimbo Fisher, and Les Miles, (maybe Dabo too) are proof that you don't need to be a mensa to win a natty. He does need more top recruits though, with an emphasis on an NFL caliber QB (i.e. Cam Newton, Joe Burrow, J Winston, not Trace McSorley).
Believe it was the late Bill Walsh who said something to the effect that "the intellectual in my profession is the guy with The National Geographic subscription." Helps to have a definition of the process to achieve goals instead of reading about what everyone else is doing and copying.
Agree on a shift in recruiting philosophy/results. I'd add OL and interior DL to that.
Hvac just went down, 15k to replace. Not even going with 20 seer only 16 cause that is 20k. Say what?? Nil support just took a hit. lol
Your response is obnoxious. No place for this discourse here. Iām serious. Tone it down.
seems that scapegoating and removing CJF would be more likely to lead backwards toward Nebraska results than forward toward Georgia results so Iām cool with 8-4
@Tgar started itNo. You donāt speak in a language that no one understands and refer to yourself in third person. Youāre
Let's not forget this was getting dropped until the season starts.
The negativity, and the attention from it, is addicting. They couldn't stop even if they wanted to.
The Amazon delivery driver gives your mom 8, and she swats away your 4.
Yay!!! Moogy learned a new word and now insists on inserting in all of his postsā¦.veruca (or verruca) simply represents plantar fungus.
Iām speculating that he didnāt follow proper locker room hygiene in his youth and is now experiencing symptoms.
Yay!!! Moogy learned a new word and now insists on inserting in all of his postsā¦.veruca (or verruca) simply represents plantar fungus.
Iām speculating that he didnāt follow proper locker room hygiene in his youth and is now experiencing symptoms.
He's been on perma-block for a long time for me, but if he's calling people 'Veruca' it's likely a reference to Veruca Salt:
Exactly...recruiting is rightly a significant part of a coach's responsibility, but yet it is certainly NOT completely within a coach's control. Unfortunately, Penn State does not "recruit itself" as much as some seem to think it does. For some reason people are so desperate to risk becoming Nebraska (a historic program that has become a non-factor) based on a hope of becoming Georgia without having anything close to Georgia-level buy-in.
That said, CJF does not coach in a vacuum. It is not a peripheral topic or a distraction, but rather is integral to the discussion to discuss potential replacements. Which replacement coach is going to bring in consistent Top 5 classes (improving on the average 15 ranking) within PSU's current structure to get into the "Elite with Elite Talent" category? There must be at least an example of one real person that fans have in mind to realistically replace CJF that is perceived to be able to recruit better with PSU's existing resources or to foster great expansion of such buy-in and resources.
Concerning resources, Franklin has greatly benefitted PSU football by fighting to catch up on many things that get readily dismissed as excuses (lacking NIL as compared to schools with much better recruiting results) or mocked as trivial (such as having single-occupancy dorms and beds large enough for large athletes, which has directly affected relatively recent recruiting). So how will the new ideal coach manage things which are beyond the coach's control? Will they advocate for continued improvement as consistently and fervently as CJF has? Would someone like Rhule really open up the floodgates of donations? Will a new coach somehow recruit better than CJF even if the uphill battle remains because factors such as NIL do not continue to improve?
So even despite the intense frustration of some perceived coaching-influenced losses, many of which would have been upsets of teams with higher levels of talent (or of teams with much greater depth, wearing PSU out even if the starting talent was comparable), the overall results match or exceed the theoretical talent level.
For additional context, Florida State, A&M, Tennessee, Miami, Texas, Florida, Auburn, and USC all have done worse than PSU with theoretically more talent. Of the teams with similar average wins who supposedly do "more with less talent", Washington, Okla. St., and Utah have benefitted from weaker conferences and Wisconsin and Iowa have been in the B1G western division, which NEVER won the conference title during that format.
Not sure why there is a false equivalency drawn between recognizing Franklin's SIGNIFICANT accomplishments with "Franklin can do no wrong" or "CJF never makes a mistake or bad decision".
Most on this board genuinely want improvement, despite which side of the CJF discussion they may fall. That said, considering the current inherent recruiting disadvantages, Franklin's demonstrated ability to recruit respectable classes despite such disadvantages, the tie between recruiting and results exhibited by the chart, and without having Georgia level support / involvement / buy-in / prioritization, it seems that scapegoating and removing CJF would be more likely to lead backwards toward Nebraska results than forward toward Georgia results.
Reality is the last time a coach won his first National Championship after being at one school for more than 10 years was....probably Tom Osborne in 1994. Since 2000 the longest it has taken anyone to win their first NC at one school is Dabo Swinney, Clemson (8) and Mack Brown, Texas (8). Most win one within four years.
I have already listed other coaches I would take a chance on. That is typically how you win a NC - get a buzzy hire who people are excited about. Franklin's 'buzz' was tampered a good bit because of the circumstances at Penn State and while he exceeded early expectations, he's settled into a predictable annual routine that few are excited for. After 2016, my favorite Franklin year was probably 2014 since we were underdogs and badly outmanned. Yeah, there were some crappy losses, but we lost to OSU in 2x OT by a TD and to Michigan by 6. The game in Ireland was awesome and so was the Pinstripe Bowl. Peaked in 2016 and have been coasting since (and our roster is much, much better).
Appreciate the thoughtful response, but we each have our own definition of 'signficant' and opinions on *what* the biggest issue with the program is. And that's fine. But I would really love for someone to explain to me how our NIL and program is light years behind everyone else when we have a top ten earning athletics program and, according to the website below, the highest paid Athletic Director in college sports. By a wide margin.
FBS Athletic Directorsā Contract Database
Check out Sportico's database of FBS athletic director contracts.
www.sportico.com
G'night!
You could win a Natty ... in being wrong, Veruca.Yay!!! Moogy learned a new word and now insists on inserting in all of his postsā¦.veruca (or verruca) simply represents plantar fungus.
Iām speculating that he didnāt follow proper locker room hygiene in his youth and is now experiencing symptoms.
Careful when reading numbers from a site like Sportico. They might have no clue as to what the $2.4mm and if they did, it should have been footnoted. An educated guess is that it represents the buyout of Kraft's contract with BC. Read that the amount was $1.9mm. While that doesn't effect Kraft's cash flow, it does become taxable income to him. So to dive deeper into the guessing abyss, that additional $500k is the tax gross-up.Reality is the last time a coach won his first National Championship after being at one school for more than 10 years was....probably Tom Osborne in 1994. Since 2000 the longest it has taken anyone to win their first NC at one school is Dabo Swinney, Clemson (8) and Mack Brown, Texas (8). Most win one within four years.
I have already listed other coaches I would take a chance on. That is typically how you win a NC - get a buzzy hire who people are excited about. Franklin's 'buzz' was tampered a good bit because of the circumstances at Penn State and while he exceeded early expectations, he's settled into a predictable annual routine that few are excited for. After 2016, my favorite Franklin year was probably 2014 since we were underdogs and badly outmanned. Yeah, there were some crappy losses, but we lost to OSU in 2x OT by a TD and to Michigan by 6. The game in Ireland was awesome and so was the Pinstripe Bowl. Peaked in 2016 and have been coasting since (and our roster is much, much better).
Appreciate the thoughtful response, but we each have our own definition of 'signficant' and opinions on *what* the biggest issue with the program is. And that's fine. But I would really love for someone to explain to me how our NIL and program is light years behind everyone else when we have a top ten earning athletics program and, according to the website below, the highest paid Athletic Director in college sports. By a wide margin.
FBS Athletic Directorsā Contract Database
Check out Sportico's database of FBS athletic director contracts.
G'night!
As to the rest of your last paragraph, Kraft is in over his head and no one at PSU is throwing him a life preserver.
Come on, Midnighter, Osborne most certainly did NOT "win" a NC in 1994! He was gifted one out of sympathy despite the presence of a better, also undefeated, team.Reality is the last time a coach won his first National Championship after being at one school for more than 10 years was....probably Tom Osborne in 1994. Since 2000 the longest it has taken anyone to win their first NC at one school is Dabo Swinney, Clemson (8) and Mack Brown, Texas (8). Most win one within four years.
I have already listed other coaches I would take a chance on. That is typically how you win a NC - get a buzzy hire who people are excited about. Franklin's 'buzz' was tampered a good bit because of the circumstances at Penn State and while he exceeded early expectations, he's settled into a predictable annual routine that few are excited for. After 2016, my favorite Franklin year was probably 2014 since we were underdogs and badly outmanned. Yeah, there were some crappy losses, but we lost to OSU in 2x OT by a TD and to Michigan by 6. The game in Ireland was awesome and so was the Pinstripe Bowl. Peaked in 2016 and have been coasting since (and our roster is much, much better).
Appreciate the thoughtful response, but we each have our own definition of 'signficant' and opinions on *what* the biggest issue with the program is. And that's fine. But I would really love for someone to explain to me how our NIL and program is light years behind everyone else when we have a top ten earning athletics program and, according to the website below, the highest paid Athletic Director in college sports. By a wide margin.
FBS Athletic Directorsā Contract Database
Check out Sportico's database of FBS athletic director contracts.
G'night!
For those that still enjoy following PSU football, the season isn't to far off. It must suck for those waking up everyday worrying about an AD or a HC that isn't going anywhere.
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