Here's a look at Real Life Scholarship/Grant Packages

[Maroon Eagle]

Ok, so I have a 15 and 12 year old. Both girls are homeschooled and I’m guessing when they take the ACT they will score between 25-34. Both are really smart, but my youngest one is a great test taker and is very studious. We live in North Mississippi. What advice would you give for kids these days? I have a microbiology degree and an MBA. I think college these days is a poor use of time and money unless you plan on being the medical field or something akin to that. What does the pack say?

Having any sort of college degree (associates or bachelors) practically guarantees higher income on average when compared to folks whose highest degree is a high school diploma.

I’d look into dual credit offerings for when they become juniors.

Itawamba is one place that’s open to homeschoolers:

https://www.iccms.edu/dualcredit

(Chose Itawamba simply because they’re the first CC in North Mississippi I saw in a Google search — if another CC is closer to you contact them)

 

[mstateglfr]

Ok, so I have a 15 and 12 year old. Both girls are homeschooled and I’m guessing when they take the ACT they will score between 25-34. Both are really smart, but my youngest one is a great test taker and is very studious. We live in North Mississippi. What advice would you give for kids these days? I have a microbiology degree and an MBA. I think college these days is a poor use of time and money unless you plan on being the medical field or something akin to that. What does the pack say?

I think you have between 3 and 6 years to work on removing your biases.
Besides medical field...
Teacher?- degree needed, as it should be.
Engineer of any type besides custodial?- degree and more needed, as it should be.
Architect?- degree needed, as it should be.
Lawyer?- multiple degrees needed, as it should be.
Accountant, financial analyst, etc?- degree needed or really really helpful.
Statistics, Data Scientists, Econ, MIS?- degree needed or really really helpful.


The idea that a college degree is a poor use of time and money is this absurd recent phenomenon that has taken hold in some fringe thought circles, and infected some people in adjacent groups. Its a mix of people who in hindsight paid too much for degrees that have low salaries, people who graduated just before/during the recession and were negatively impacted by the economic realities we allowed to happen, and people who have a social outrage nit to pick with 'liberal elites in education'. Those groups are span a wide range on the social and political spectrums, so the narrative that college is no longer worth the cost has a lot of visibility.
But just because emotional rants are loud doesnt mean they are founded in reality. Reality is that a college degree is still an incredible investment in general, and the more work that is put in on the front end to minimize risk, the better the investment looks.

An in-state kid that gets a 30 on their ACT and has a 3.6gpa will get $8,000 off tuition per year at MSU. They pay less than $2000 per year!
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.admissions.msstate.edu/sites/www.admissions.msstate.edu/files/inline-files/Scholarship%20Sheet%20Charts%20Freshman%20Mississippi%20Residents%2023-24_0.pdf
A 30 and a 3.5gpa is whats needed to pay only $2000 per year in tuition. Thats bonkers. How in the 17 can that be argued as a poor use of time and money?
Yeah there are living expenses like food and housing. And yeah, those exist regardless of if the kid is in college so only some of that can be honestly claimed as an expense beyond just normal living.
Who knows how the lack of GPA due to homeschooling impacts this example. I am sure there is some established workaround.

I work with 14-18 year olds on a daily basis in multiple situations and they vary from total dummies, to motivated but oblivious, to brilliant and aware. I would be hesitant to hire any of them at 18 for any sort of professional job- even an entry level assistant for general account management. And that doesnt even get into the reality that for any of the job markets I listed above, actual education is required and many also require specialization testing/certification.

There is a popular push to increase trades and a supporting claim is made that earnings can be seen immediately instead of spending money to go to college. I get it, trades are in demand and those jobs can pay a lot. How many 60 year old full time carpet layers do you see? How many 60 year old full time roofers do you see? Bricklayers? Heck, electrician is a skilled and less physically demanding trade and even then- what % of those guys are over 60?
Yeah, you can start out right away at 18 and earn money. And by 40 many hurt in all sorts of ways and have to figure out whats next. Very few can go into business and run companies for an extended time for multiple reasons- thats a whole other lie that is pushed.




In the end though, it shouldnt really matter what you think about college- it should be what your kids think. Problem is, parents heavily influence their kid's thinking when they offer up opinions as fact and reality or readily voice biases without bothering to discuss the counter view.
Give it a try though- have 5 conversations over a few months with your kids about what fields they enjoy and may want to work in, then together look up how to do that work without any college classes/degree.

 

[RocketDawg]

They were falling apart, and they needed to go to make way for the new dorms.

How do I know? Same reason I know about the Trash Pandas development.

But why were the newer ones - Hamlin and Suttle built in the 1960s - in such bad shape while the older ones were salvageable?

 

[RocketDawg]

They were falling apart, and they needed to go to make way for the new dorms.

How do I know? Same reason I know about the Trash Pandas development.

But why were the newer ones - Hamlin and Suttle built in the 1960s - in such bad shape while the older ones were salvageable?

What do you know about the Trash Pandas development? Do you mean the physical development or the procedure involved to move the team from Mobile? If physical, I live less than a half mile as the crow flies from the stadium and see it and and travel through the surrounding development daily. What do you know that's unique?

 

[mstateglfr]

And another question in my mind is, are ACT/SAT scores simply up across the board? Many many curriculums seem to train toward taking those tests. And people have said for years that we are lowering test scores. And before anyone gets pissed at me, I have no idea, I'm simply asking questions.

The class of 2023 had the worst ACT performance in more than three decades, according to newly released data from the nonprofit that administers the college admissions test.

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/act-test-scores-lowest-2023

I absolutely looked around and wondered if ACT scores had gone up since I took the test, or if the test had gotten easier/changed how it is scored. Apparently the ACT was 'recentered' in '89, but how it is scored is basically the same for over 30 years now.

 

[ronpolk]

Ok, so I have a 15 and 12 year old. Both girls are homeschooled and I’m guessing when they take the ACT they will score between 25-34. Both are really smart, but my youngest one is a great test taker and is very studious. We live in North Mississippi. What advice would you give for kids these days? I have a microbiology degree and an MBA. I think college these days is a poor use of time and money unless you plan on being the medical field or something akin to that. What does the pack say?

Nah, I think you’re way off on it being a waste of time. You need a degree to do practically anything. If your kid wants to do a trade have them learn that and practice that while also getting a bachelors degree. I’m 37 and have several friends who went to work in construction or offshore and they all made good money straight out of high school while I was making minimum wage and going into student loan debt. But now they look 10 years older than me and make significantly less than me now.

If you’re taking a 5 year view after college, maybe it is a waste of time. If you’re taking a 10, 20, 30 year view, hard to imagine it being a waste of time, if you get a useful degree. Now I do have one friend that parlayed his trade skill into a decent size business and he does very well for himself. That’s clearly not the norm.

 

[Luka Legend]

I know two twin sisters who never have been apart, but one went to Ole Miss and the other one to state. Two different majors. State offered more money for one sister based on her major than Ole Miss and Ole Miss offered the other sister more money than state for hers.

I told my two kids if they want me to pay, they are going to Community College for two years and save money on courses. I would also pay for the last two year if they did that. If they go to 4 years first, they are on their own.

When I left for college, my mom gave me a 20-dollar bill and waved goodbye. I paid for my own college.

How much did college cost back then?
Do you think it's feasible for an 18yo to pay their own way while working a likely minimum or close to it wage job?

 

[615dawg]

Yes, this thread has focused more on high achievers. But this is a huge issue with MSU's academic reputation. The average family is going to take $10k more at Ole Miss.

Lets look at a middle achiever.

A 23 ACT and a 3.0 GPA is going to get $1,500 a year at MSU. They are going to get $3,000 at Ole Miss.

A 20 ACT and a 3.0 GPA is going to get the same $1,500 a year at MSU. 23 is the minimum ACT that Ole Miss attaches a merit scholarship.

The Mississippi average ACT is 17.5 (scores are down). The median is 21. State is recruiting the bottom half of the state better than Ole Miss, but neglecting the top half. There are way more 22 and under than 27 and up in the state.

The strategy gets numbers, but there are a ton of below average students at MSU.

We have to match Ole Miss on scholarships.

 

[ronpolk]

Yes, this thread has focused more on high achievers. But this is a huge issue with MSU's academic reputation. The average family is going to take $10k more at Ole Miss.

Lets look at a middle achiever.

A 23 ACT and a 3.0 GPA is going to get $1,500 a year at MSU. They are going to get $3,000 at Ole Miss.

A 20 ACT and a 3.0 GPA is going to get the same $1,500 a year at MSU. 23 is the minimum ACT that Ole Miss attaches a merit scholarship.

The Mississippi average ACT is 17.5 (scores are down). The median is 21. State is recruiting the bottom half of the state better than Ole Miss, but neglecting the top half. There are way more 22 and under than 27 and up in the state.

The strategy gets numbers, but there are a ton of below average students at MSU.

We have to match Ole Miss on scholarships.

You answered my question from earlier in the thread. I agree with you. There is no reason why we shouldn’t essentially match OM.

 

[GloryDawg]

How much did college cost back then?
Do you think it's feasible for an 18yo to pay their own way while working a likely minimum or close to it wage job?

The value of the dollar was different back then. You could buy a brand-new car for 6000.00. That was a lot of money back then. That was probably about half the cost for one year tuition and room and board at Miss State. I did what I had to do. I ended up joining the Marine Corps. I could have gone the student loan route. Hell, anyone can get a student loan now days. Anyone can get a college degree if they want it. You can borrow enough for food and housing along with tuition. But that's why you go to Hinds or another CC first. If you leave, there then go to any university you will still have a BA or BS from a University even though you went the JUCO route for two years. I would be willing to bet that half of the BA holders in this state went the JUCO route first. Why pay twice as much for the same classes you have to take your first two years anyways no matter where you go. I don't want to hear some snowflake ******** about college. So many people have college degrees they are becoming not worth paying for. I saw where some businesses are getting rid of the college degree requirements. Here is a report for you. They are all over the internet. If you go to college, go for a specific occupation like accounting, Doctor or engineering. Now anything other then that you might as well get a HVAC license or go to lineman school at Holmes Community college. 7K is what that cost and you will come out making six figure your first year. That's smart money. Don't get married, live humble, invest your money and retire after 10 years.

Nearly Half of Companies Plan to Eliminate Bachelor's Degree Requirements in 2024 - Intelligent

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The value of the dollar was different back then. You could buy a brand-new car for 6000.00. That was a lot of money back then. That was probably about half the cost for one year tuition and room and board at Miss State. I did what I had to do. I ended up joining the Marine Corps. I could have gone the student loan route. Hell, anyone can get a student loan now days. Anyone can get a college degree if they want it. You can borrow enough for food and housing along with tuition. But that's why you go to Hinds or another CC first. If you leave, there then go to any university you will still have a BA or BS from a University even though you went the JUCO route for two years. I would be willing to bet that half of the BA holders in this state went the JUCO route first. Why pay twice as much for the same classes you have to take your first two years anyways no matter where you go. I don't want to hear some snowflake ******** about college. So many people have college degrees they are becoming not worth paying for. I saw where some businesses are getting rid of the college degree requirements. Here is a report for you. They are all over the internet. If you go to college, go for a specific occupation like accounting, Doctor or engineering. Now anything other then that you might as well get a HVAC license or go to lineman school at Holmes Community college. 7K is what that cost and you will come out making six figure your first year. That's smart money. Don't get married, live humble, invest your money and retire after 10 years.

Nearly Half of Companies Plan to Eliminate Bachelor's Degree Requirements in 2024 - Intelligent

I have heard about tech companies doing this sort of thing. Basically training their own employees.

I think the key is what you said. If you don’t want to mess with college, save your money and invest early while you can, and work as much as you can.

 

[mstateglfr]

Just because a job that used to require a college degree may now not require one doesn't mean a college degree has no value in that scenario.

To liken this to college, a lot of admissions are now 'test optional' where an act/act isn't required, but that doesn't mean there is no value in taking the test.

Having a deeper body of proof that you are educated/responsible/knowledgeable helps set you apart in a pool of candidates. Further, while the job in question may not require a college degree, jobs above the one that now no longer requires a degree often still require a degree.
A smartly chosen college and degree = more options. Simple as that.

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

I think you have between 3 and 6 years to work on removing your biases.
Besides medical field...
Teacher?- degree needed, as it should be.
Engineer of any type besides custodial?- degree and more needed, as it should be.
Architect?- degree needed, as it should be.
Lawyer?- multiple degrees needed, as it should be.
Accountant, financial analyst, etc?- degree needed or really really helpful.
Statistics, Data Scientists, Econ, MIS?- degree needed or really really helpful.


The idea that a college degree is a poor use of time and money is this absurd recent phenomenon that has taken hold in some fringe thought circles, and infected some people in adjacent groups. Its a mix of people who in hindsight paid too much for degrees that have low salaries, people who graduated just before/during the recession and were negatively impacted by the economic realities we allowed to happen, and people who have a social outrage nit to pick with 'liberal elites in education'. Those groups are span a wide range on the social and political spectrums, so the narrative that college is no longer worth the cost has a lot of visibility.
But just because emotional rants are loud doesnt mean they are founded in reality. Reality is that a college degree is still an incredible investment in general, and the more work that is put in on the front end to minimize risk, the better the investment looks.

An in-state kid that gets a 30 on their ACT and has a 3.6gpa will get $8,000 off tuition per year at MSU. They pay less than $2000 per year!
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.admissions.msstate.edu/sites/www.admissions.msstate.edu/files/inline-files/Scholarship%20Sheet%20Charts%20Freshman%20Mississippi%20Residents%2023-24_0.pdf
A 30 and a 3.5gpa is whats needed to pay only $2000 per year in tuition. Thats bonkers. How in the 17 can that be argued as a poor use of time and money?
Yeah there are living expenses like food and housing. And yeah, those exist regardless of if the kid is in college so only some of that can be honestly claimed as an expense beyond just normal living.
Who knows how the lack of GPA due to homeschooling impacts this example. I am sure there is some established workaround.

I work with 14-18 year olds on a daily basis in multiple situations and they vary from total dummies, to motivated but oblivious, to brilliant and aware. I would be hesitant to hire any of them at 18 for any sort of professional job- even an entry level assistant for general account management. And that doesnt even get into the reality that for any of the job markets I listed above, actual education is required and many also require specialization testing/certification.

There is a popular push to increase trades and a supporting claim is made that earnings can be seen immediately instead of spending money to go to college. I get it, trades are in demand and those jobs can pay a lot. How many 60 year old full time carpet layers do you see? How many 60 year old full time roofers do you see? Bricklayers? Heck, electrician is a skilled and less physically demanding trade and even then- what % of those guys are over 60?
Yeah, you can start out right away at 18 and earn money. And by 40 many hurt in all sorts of ways and have to figure out whats next. Very few can go into business and run companies for an extended time for multiple reasons- thats a whole other lie that is pushed.




In the end though, it shouldnt really matter what you think about college- it should be what your kids think. Problem is, parents heavily influence their kid's thinking when they offer up opinions as fact and reality or readily voice biases without bothering to discuss the counter view.
Give it a try though- have 5 conversations over a few months with your kids about what fields they enjoy and may want to work in, then together look up how to do that work without any college classes/degree.

Thanks for everyone’s input. I have always treated my kids like an adult because I have high expectations for them. Both have business plans that they have laid out. I’ve encouraged them to find what makes them happy and then figure how to make money doing it. They have surprised me how much they have planned out their future. One wants to be a business owner and the other in the medical field. I’ve encouraged each to be their own boss if possible.

 

[Podgy]

Having a college degree is better than not having one except for a few majors. Women in particular have fewer opportunities than men to enter or remain middle and upper-middle class without a college degree. Avoid the studies majors but even someone with a women's studies degree will out earn an HVAC tech (the wealthy and governments love non-profits) unless they're just emotionally unstable. Avoid crazy lefty profs and you'll be fine or record them and let the rest of the country know what nonsense they're spewing. They'll learn to stop. Don't go deeply into debt. Debt is the problem. And stop listening to those angry reactionaries, many of whom have college degrees and a good standard of living, who tell you that college is worthless. It isn't. There's a good social life, you're often around high achievers from stable families who influence you to sacrifice for a better future, while still having fun, and college grads stay married and have a host of beneficial life outcomes. Don't go deeply into debt. A little debt is fine. A college degree is a good investment. Work part time and take summers off to work if you have to.

 

[ronpolk]

The value of the dollar was different back then. You could buy a brand-new car for 6000.00. That was a lot of money back then. That was probably about half the cost for one year tuition and room and board at Miss State. I did what I had to do. I ended up joining the Marine Corps. I could have gone the student loan route. Hell, anyone can get a student loan now days. Anyone can get a college degree if they want it. You can borrow enough for food and housing along with tuition. But that's why you go to Hinds or another CC first. If you leave, there then go to any university you will still have a BA or BS from a University even though you went the JUCO route for two years. I would be willing to bet that half of the BA holders in this state went the JUCO route first. Why pay twice as much for the same classes you have to take your first two years anyways no matter where you go. I don't want to hear some snowflake ******** about college. So many people have college degrees they are becoming not worth paying for. I saw where some businesses are getting rid of the college degree requirements. Here is a report for you. They are all over the internet. If you go to college, go for a specific occupation like accounting, Doctor or engineering. Now anything other then that you might as well get a HVAC license or go to lineman school at Holmes Community college. 7K is what that cost and you will come out making six figure your first year. That's smart money. Don't get married, live humble, invest your money and retire after 10 years.

Nearly Half of Companies Plan to Eliminate Bachelor's Degree Requirements in 2024 - Intelligent

Retire after 10 years of making $100k? I find that hard to believe. Even if you save every penny and don’t spend anything, you got $1 million to last the rest of your life?

 

[mstateglfr]

Retire after 10 years of making $100k? I find that hard to believe. Even if you save every penny and don’t spend anything, you got $1 million to last the rest of your life?

He also said to not get married and live humbly.
So the idea is to spend your 20s, a time when many are immature and superficial, being disciplined by living humbly and not pursuing women(don't get married).

So you hit 30 and what- you have no spouse or kids(presumably), maybe have some matchbox starter house in a crap area, and you have maybe $900k in the bank if you invested an insane % of your pay.
That's gonna take care of all your needs for the next 50 years?

It's a goofy claim.

I am not a lineman and don't know linemen. I do gave Google though and $20-25 per hour was a range for starting work as an apprentice. $50-70 per hour was a range for experienced workers and OT exists on top of that.
^ these numbers create a very different 10 years of work compared to walking out of CC making 6 figures.
I don't know which is more accurate, but neither would last me 50 years...and I would be alone living in squalor to try and make it last.

Glory's post is a perfect example of someone wanting to believe the trend of crapping on a degree is rooted in good sound thinking.