House Bill 1020 creating new courts in Jackson CCID.......

[OG Goat Holder]

Has this sort of thing been done anywhere else in the country? Seems that would be an easy counter argument to all the Jackson area folks opposing it. I have to think it has, in this age of metro governments and what not.

Maybe not controlled by the state though, I suppose. Though I'm not sure how those things get started. I know Louisville, KY has a metro government, not sure if they did that locally or on the state level.

 

[mstateglfr]

Over accusations of racism, Mississippi House passes bill to create unelected court system

Over calls of racism and recollections of the state's dark past, the Mississippi House passed a bill to create an unelected court within Jackson.

www.clarionledger.com

worth reading.

Lamar amended the bill, cutting it from more than 1000 pages down to less than 40 in the process, to remove provisions that would have given the new court sole jurisdiction over lawsuits involving the state.

Blackmon, speaking against that amendment, said the new court would oversee both civil and criminal cases, and that should be a sign to observers that the true underlying issue is not about crime.

"This bill is about helping to fight crime?" Blackmon said. "What does civil litigation have to do with crime in the state of Mississippi?"

If the state was serious about fighting crime in Jackson, Blackmon said, it would increase funding for the state crime lab, which has been cited by law enforcement leaders as a key cause of backlogs.

"I notice that this bill does not address part of the problem, which is lack of funding at that crime lab. You're blaming Jackson because they can't process their cases fast enough because the crime lab is not operating at capacity because we won't give them the money," Blackmon said.

Lamar said there are already unelected judges serving over cases in Hinds County, but those judges are funded by expiring federal funds from the American Rescue Plan Act, and this is an attempt to more permanently address the problem.

"Why wouldn't you just provide more money to the existing court system to reduce the backlog?" Rep. Zakiya Summers, D-Jackson, asked Lamar.

"Lady, this is the bill that's before the body," Lamar responded.

Summers later pointed out that the current appointed judges are overseen by elected Hinds County judges, and not state officials. She said Lamar's bill would create a "separate but unequal court."

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I'm against this - and my office is in downtown. This protects (mostly) rich hipsters and politicians and the state pays for it. Also what kind of precedent does it set? What about high crime cities like Greenville, is the state going to pay for a special system for them? What about someone who lives or had a business a mile or two outside the boundary, they are going to clamor to be included which will cost the state more.

For those of you not from Jxn, the downtown "business" district has shrunk to a shell of what it was in the 90s. Many professional firms/business (that would normally occupy a capitol city's downtown) have moved to Highland Colony in Ridgeland and other adjoining areas.

Where I a voter in Senatobia, i wouldn't vote for Trey Lamar, this ain't none of his bid'niss and he's just showing he can willing be used as a pawn.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Over accusations of racism, Mississippi House passes bill to create unelected court system

Over calls of racism and recollections of the state's dark past, the Mississippi House passed a bill to create an unelected court within Jackson.

www.clarionledger.com

worth reading.

Read that this morning, it's what prompted the post.

We all know how people in and out of Jackson feel about it. I'm just curious if there's any precedent for this anywhere else.

I'm against this. This protects (mostly) rich hipsters and politicians and the state pays for it. Also what kind of precedent does it set? What about high crime cities like Greenville, is the state going to pay for a special system for them? What about someone who lives or had a business a mile or two outside the boundary, they are going to clamor to be included which will cost the state more.

Understand, but it's about the state capitol area. That's slightly different. The state does have direct interests there, and what Jackson is doing is not working. This isn't like the airport situation. This is more like the water situation.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Read that this morning, it's what prompted the post.

We all know how people in and out of Jackson feel about it. I'm just curious if there's any precedent for this anywhere else.


Understand, but it's about the state capitol area. That's slightly different. The state does have direct interests there, and what Jackson is doing is not working. This isn't like the airport situation. This is more like the water situation.

There was already a well manned/funded Capitol Police Force that protected the State Capitol and surrounding state interests. The vast majority of what this protects is residential.

 

[maroonmadman]

Prepare yourselves for a lengthy and acrimonious legal challange.

Mississippi Today's write up.
White reps vote to create white-appointed court for Blackest city in America - Mississippi Today

 

[OG Goat Holder]

There was already a well manned/funded Capitol Police Force that protected the State Capitol and surrounding state interests.

I know (duh). This bill creates a court system for that area. Go read the bill and/or the article.

I don't know if I'm against it or not. Again, just curious if any other city has something like this.

 

[mstateglfr]

Read that this morning, it's what prompted the post.

We all know how people in and out of Jackson feel about it. I'm just curious if there's any precedent for this anywhere else.

I linked that as a courtesy to others, so they could quickly get info on the issue.

As for precedent, I definitely am not aware of a city being forced to accept an unelected court system that oversees the a specific part of a city.
The article and quoted parts I highlight, really should be addressed and answered by those who support setting up a court.
- why not just utilize the infrastructure that already exists for a sub-court?
- respond to the law enforcement's claim that the underfunded lab is what is slowing progress?



The idea that judges must be elected is suspect. It is not ideal that a judge be at the mercy of how a group of voters thinks of their job since the judge is likely following law. At the same time, it is also not ideal that a judge be appointed since they will clearly have views which align with whichever party is making the appointment.

This whole thing looks like a crapshow(why cant we swear?!?)

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Imagine if the federal government decided to appoint an unelected court. Oh damn, wait...

 

[johnson86-1]

I linked that as a courtesy to others, so they could quickly get info on the issue.

As for precedent, I definitely am not aware of a city being forced to accept an unelected court system that oversees the a specific part of a city.
The article and quoted parts I highlight, really should be addressed and answered by those who support setting up a court.
- why not just utilize the infrastructure that already exists for a sub-court?
- respond to the law enforcement's claim that the underfunded lab is what is slowing progress?



The idea that judges must be elected is suspect. It is not ideal that a judge be at the mercy of how a group of voters thinks of their job since the judge is likely following law. At the same time, it is also not ideal that a judge be appointed since they will clearly have views which align with whichever party is making the appointment.

This whole thing looks like a crapshow(why cant we swear?!?)

Well, it's not really about a city being forced to accept it. It's individuals and businesses. But just a few thoughts on it:

- It's ridiculous to have our state tied to one of the most dysfunctional judicial districts. It's not fair for citizens in the state to get screwed by Hinds voters, but it's also probably a good idea irrespective of how dysfunctional Hinds is. If we're going to have elected judges, all voters of the state should have some input, even if indirect, into judges that rule on statewide issues.
- I think most people within the district will love having the district. I think if you have criminal defendants that actually live in the district, there's probably a good argument against pulling them out of the Hinds County judicial district, unless the district is divided by whatever legal process there is for that (I'm assuming constitutional amendment but don't know. If it's by statute and this is the right process, then they don't need to have concurrent jurisdiction. They just need to carve Hinds up into two judicial districts.).
- With respect to utilizing the infrastructure that already exists, that doesn't accomplish anything. There may be some benefit to moving dockets along, but the real problem is that a majority of voters in Hinds County don't want judges that are serious about crime. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to divide areas geographically into areas that are more or less serious about deterring crime. Madison county benefits immensely from having voters that want serious punishment for crime. I don't see anything wrong with having portions of Hinds county have the same benefits. The mechanism is funky, but the citiziens of the state need and deserve a functioning capital city. I don't have a major problem with voters within the capitol district having slightly different voting rights than the rest of the state (just like residents of DC on the federal level). They get a ton of benefits from money from the rest of the state going to the area. If taxpayers in the rest of the state get some influence on local issues, that seems reasonable and fair to me.

 

[thatsbaseball]

If Jackson could keep the criminals their elected judges continually release within Jackson's boundaries then I couldn't care less how much self inflicted damage they chose to bring on themselves. The problem is repeat offenders wandering into the communities around Jackson and committing crimes. The people in those communities don't deserve to suffer for Jackson's not being able to maintain law and order.

 

[johnson86-1]

Prepare yourselves for a lengthy and acrimonious legal challange.

Mississippi Today's write up.
White reps vote to create white-appointed court for Blackest city in America - Mississippi Today

Man, is there a class of people that is more consistently full of garbage human beings than journalists? This has nothing to do with white and black. If it were, you'd see it happening in the delta. It's just a state government trying to insulate the capitol and surrounding area from a dysfunctional electorate. What kind of piece of **** human do you have to be to see a municipality that can't even provide potable water and say, "yup, people don't give a **** about potable water; they really are just complaining because they're racist."

 

[goindhoo]

Lamar should remove the civil courts to make this a more legitimate safety/crime issue. Either way, it will probably get shot down in federal court.

 

[Faustdog]

Has this sort of thing been done anywhere else in the country? Seems that would be an easy counter argument to all the Jackson area folks opposing it. I have to think it has, in this age of metro governments and what not.

Maybe not controlled by the state though, I suppose. Though I'm not sure how those things get started. I know Louisville, KY has a metro government, not sure if they did that locally or on the state level.

Looks to me like they are trying innovative ways to save a city where the majority of residents don't want to be saved.

I say this as someone who chooses to work in Downtown Jackson and sends kids to a school in within the CCID. I very much enjoy Jackson, and there are some really good things happening even now.

We'll see if the senate passes it and what happens in the ensuing court case.

I'm just happy to see the legislature trying when for many years they purposefully neglected the City of Jackson because doing so was popular with their constituents.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Man, is there a class of people that is more consistently full of garbage human beings than journalists? This has nothing to do with white and black. If it were, you'd see it happening in the delta. It's just a state government trying to insulate the capitol and surrounding area from a dysfunctional electorate. What kind of piece of **** human do you have to be to see a municipality that can't even provide potable water and say, "yup, people don't give a **** about potable water; they really are just complaining because they're racist."

Yep, which is why I don't understand why they haven't found another example somewhere to counter the nonsense claims. They'll still make the claims, but at least they will have solid evidence against them.

 

[johnson86-1]

Looks to me like they are trying innovative ways to save a city where the majority of residents don't want to be saved.

I say this as someone who chooses to work in Downtown Jackson and sends kids to a school in within the CCID. I very much enjoy Jackson, and there are some really good things happening even now.

We'll see if the senate passes it and what happens in the ensuing court case.

I'm just happy to see the legislature trying when for many years they purposefully neglected the City of Jackson because doing so was popular with their constituents.

How did they neglect Jackson?
How were they involving themselves for other cities in a way that they didn't Jackson? Also, even if they did do things for other cities that they don't do for Jackson, Jackson gets tons of benefits from state government being there to begin with. If they had not been morons and collected water bills, they could have structured their rates to offset the only downside, which is a disproportionate number of properties exempt from property taxes.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

It seems the bill is trying to fix the backlogs, amirite? Then maybe Hinds Co should just put a few more judges on the bench and get the money situation resolved regarding the backlogs in the crime lab. Those opposed to this have a legit gripe IMO and I think the courts will call it unconstitutional and strike it down. Seems like their trying to change the rules on how judges are put in power.

 

[johnson86-1]

It seems the bill is trying to fix the backlogs, amirite? Then maybe Hinds Co should just put a few more judges on the bench and get the money situation resolved regarding the backlogs in the crime lab. Those opposed to this have a legit gripe IMO and I think the courts will call it unconstitutional and strike it down. Seems like their trying to change the rules on how judges are put in power.

No. The backlogs are a problem, but this is not to address the backlog. This is trying to take the areas of Jackson important to the rest of the state (the capitol area, downtown, UMMC, JSU, and some residential areas to try to keep Jackson viable and provide liveable areas for people working at the important institutions) and protect them from Hinds County voters in general.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I know (duh). This bill creates a court system for that area. Go read the bill and/or the article.

I don't know if I'm against it or not. Again, just curious if any other city has something like this.

I'm not just referring to this bill and increased funding, I'm also referring to the expansion a couple of years ago that greatly expanded the boundaries to cover Belhaven, Fondren and other areas. This should not be called Capitol Complex Improvement District, as its boundaries go far beyond the immediate Capitol Complex, it mostly covers residential areas.

The state should not be in the business of running cites, this just goes to prove that most politicians of all stripes are "big government."

 

[Cantdoitsal]

No. The backlogs are a problem, but this is not to address the backlog. This is trying to take the areas of Jackson important to the rest of the state (the capitol area, downtown, UMMC, JSU, and some residential areas to try to keep Jackson viable and provide liveable areas for people working at the important institutions) and protect them from Hinds County voters in general.

So are you saying the Judges / DA's are letting folks out in George Soros fashion? I can dig that if that is the case and would consider getting on board with this. I still think there's a constitutional issue with depriving Hinds County Voters even if they're stupid but that's one of the problems with democracy, stupid people get to vote. And BTW, sorry for the late night jab the other night; was uncalled for.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Looks to me like they are trying innovative ways to save a city where the majority of residents don't want to be saved.

I say this as someone who chooses to work in Downtown Jackson and sends kids to a school in within the CCID. I very much enjoy Jackson, and there are some really good things happening even now.

We'll see if the senate passes it and what happens in the ensuing court case.

I'm just happy to see the legislature trying when for many years they purposefully neglected the City of Jackson because doing so was popular with their constituents.

Please explain to me why my tax dollars are going to provide security to select neighborhoods in a particular city? No problem with protecting the Capitol Complex and adjoining state interests, and they were already doing that. Why should those in Belhaven and Fondren get state funded protection, while neighborhoods in Greenville and Meridian do not? Again no issue with funding the protection of the immediately ares of the Capitol Complex (which has been in place for some time).

 

[Faustdog]

How did they neglect Jackson?
How were they involving themselves for other cities in a way that they didn't Jackson? Also, even if they did do things for other cities that they don't do for Jackson, Jackson gets tons of benefits from state government being there to begin with. If they had not been morons and collected water bills, they could have structured their rates to offset the only downside, which is a disproportionate number of properties exempt from property taxes.

Man you seem mad.

The water is a Jackson issue. The people of Jackson should be thankful they are getting the funding and less concerned with who distributes the money given to them.

Jackson is unlike any other city in Mississippi. You can't treat Jackson like you treat Carthage, or Aberdeen, or even Meridian. It is not uncommon in other areas for large cities to get funding for improvement projects from the legislature. Jackson bills don't generally don't make it out of committee.

When something somehow slipped through the legislature last year for Lefleurs Bluff funding, the governor vetoed it. The governor of course trash talks Jackson because the yokels love it, while sending his kids to the same Jackson school within the CCID.

 

[Faustdog]

Please explain to me why my tax dollars are going to provide security to select neighborhoods in a particular city? No problem with protecting the Capitol Complex and adjoining state interests, and they were already doing that. Why should those in Belhaven and Fondren get state funded protection, while neighborhoods in Greenville and Meridian do not? Again no issue with funding the protection of the immediately ares of the Capitol Complex (which has been in place for some time).

The simple answer is because they need it more.

 

[Johnnie Come Lately]

I am sure Jackson would challenge this in Federal court, but what is they chance it would be blocked? I am pretty sure there several States where judges are chosen by methods other than a popular election. I am pretty sure the legislature selects judges in some places.

 

[Perd Hapley]

No. The backlogs are a problem, but this is not to address the backlog. This is trying to take the areas of Jackson important to the rest of the state (the capitol area, downtown, UMMC, JSU, and some residential areas to try to keep Jackson viable and provide liveable areas for people working at the important institutions) and protect them from Hinds County voters in general.

Why would any residential areas in Jackson be of even the slightest importance to the rest of the state?

 

[Boom Boom]

No. The backlogs are a problem, but this is not to address the backlog. This is trying to take the areas of Jackson important to the rest of the state (the capitol area, downtown, UMMC, JSU, and some residential areas to try to keep Jackson viable and provide liveable areas for people working at the important institutions) and protect them from Hinds County voters in general.

Doesn't this bill expand the CCID all the way to County Line Rd?

 

[Boom Boom]

So are you saying the Judges / DA's are letting folks out in George Soros fashion? I can dig that if that is the case and would consider getting on board with this. I still think there's a constitutional issue with depriving Hinds County Voters even if they're stupid but that's one of the problems with democracy, stupid people get to vote. And BTW, sorry for the late night jab the other night; was uncalled for.

That's the claim, but there's not any evidence for it. Pretty clear we have a widespread problem with police/DA incentives towards how they prosecute crime, and creating a special district isn't going to fix that.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

So are you saying the Judges / DA's are letting folks out in George Soros fashion? I can dig that if that is the case and would consider getting on board with this. I still think there's a constitutional issue with depriving Hinds County Voters even if they're stupid but that's one of the problems with democracy, stupid people get to vote. And BTW, sorry for the late night jab the other night; was uncalled for.

Hell yes. Repeat offenders all over.

@Boom Boom this is well documented.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Please explain to me why my tax dollars are going to provide security to select neighborhoods in a particular city? No problem with protecting the Capitol Complex and adjoining state interests, and they were already doing that. Why should those in Belhaven and Fondren get state funded protection, while neighborhoods in Greenville and Meridian do not? Again no issue with funding the protection of the immediately ares of the Capitol Complex (which has been in place for some time).

Because Jackson is more important to the state than Greenville and Meridian. Bottom line, real talk, etc. Or at least the core business areas are.

 

[ronpolk]

Man, is there a class of people that is more consistently full of garbage human beings than journalists? This has nothing to do with white and black. If it were, you'd see it happening in the delta. It's just a state government trying to insulate the capitol and surrounding area from a dysfunctional electorate. What kind of piece of **** human do you have to be to see a municipality that can't even provide potable water and say, "yup, people don't give a **** about potable water; they really are just complaining because they're racist."

The media truly talks out of both sides of their mouth regarding the state and Jackson. Every time jackson has a water problem, the city and media spin it as the state is racist and won’t help jackson. Well here is the state trying to help a problem jackson has and they still get called racist

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Because Jackson is more important to the state than Greenville and Meridian. Bottom line, real talk, etc. Or at least the core business areas are.

Just curious if you live in central MS or have frequent interactions in downtown Jxn? You'd be shocked how how little business is left. Drive down Highland Colony, there's were most of the downtown business moved to, many more firms there than downtown Jxn. Additionally the vast majority of the new CCID is residential.

 

[Boom Boom]

Hell yes. Repeat offenders all over.

@Boom Boom this is well documented.

Ok, show me. Show me how it's happening more in Jackson than everywhere else, because I see plenty of drug runners getting let loose over and over down here on the Coast, and other crimes not even being pursued.

 

[Boom Boom]

Hell yes. Repeat offenders all over.

@Boom Boom this is well documented.

Let's put it this way: are our jails/prisons not full? I'm under the impression that they are more than full. Am I wrong?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Just curious if you live in central MS or have frequent interactions in downtown Jxn? You'd be shocked how how little business is left. Drive down Highland Colony, there's were most of the downtown business moved to, many more firms there than downtown Jxn. Additionally the vast majority of the new CCID is residential.

That cannot be allowed to continue. It MUST be saved. I don't see how you don't understand this. The only reason any of us are living in our nice crime-free suburbs is because Jackson was here first.

Either that or move the capitol, which isn't happening so stop dreaming about it.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Ok, show me. Show me how it's happening more in Jackson than everywhere else, because I see plenty of drug runners getting let loose over and over down here on the Coast, and other crimes not even being pursued.

Mississippi Legislature seeks to alleviate the criminal justice system in Jackson

The Mississippi legislature is working with local leaders to reduce the crime rate in Jackson and alleviate a backlog of court cases.

www.mpbonline.org

CONSIDER THIS: Getting Repeat Offenders Off the Street

We're glad to see the city of Jackson taking a proactive approach to curb the violence in our community. Jackson Police Chief Lee Vance with U-S Attorney Greg Davis announced a plan to arrest repeat violent offenders on federal charges.

www.wlbt.com

Repeat Offenders

Willie Williams Junior has been charged with a violent crime before and he's not the only repeat offender in Jackson.

www.wapt.com

Third man sentenced in 2017 deadly traffic light shooting at Fortification and State Streets

A third person connected to the killing of 23-year-old Chelsie Kirschten, almost three years ago, finally has his day in court Monday and the mother of the victim gives an exclusive interview with 3 On Your Side sharing her thoughts on the outcome.

www.wlbt.com

Now, some of the problem will be resolved now that this lady has retired: https://www.wjtv.com/news/local-new...ires-after-breaking-barriers-in-hinds-county/

She was a known problem as far as releasing criminals early. And even she said they need more courts.

 

[johnson86-1]

Doesn't this bill expand the CCID all the way to County Line Rd?

I'm not clear on what it actually includes, but relying on reporting (which obviously that's not exactly reliable), it sounds like it's a corridor that runs southwest from JSU and goes northwest all the way to the east side of I-55 and eastover and picks up everything of significance in between (capitol, downtown, UMC, Fondren, Belhaven). Not sure if it goes past east over to pick up residential areas around JA and going all the way to County Line Road or not. Would make sense if it does.

 

[Boom Boom]

Mississippi Legislature seeks to alleviate the criminal justice system in Jackson

The Mississippi legislature is working with local leaders to reduce the crime rate in Jackson and alleviate a backlog of court cases.

www.mpbonline.org

CONSIDER THIS: Getting Repeat Offenders Off the Street

We're glad to see the city of Jackson taking a proactive approach to curb the violence in our community. Jackson Police Chief Lee Vance with U-S Attorney Greg Davis announced a plan to arrest repeat violent offenders on federal charges.

www.wlbt.com

Repeat Offenders

Willie Williams Junior has been charged with a violent crime before and he's not the only repeat offender in Jackson.

www.wapt.com

Third man sentenced in 2017 deadly traffic light shooting at Fortification and State Streets

A third person connected to the killing of 23-year-old Chelsie Kirschten, almost three years ago, finally has his day in court Monday and the mother of the victim gives an exclusive interview with 3 On Your Side sharing her thoughts on the outcome.

www.wlbt.com

Now, some of the problem will be resolved now that this lady has retired: https://www.wjtv.com/news/local-new...ires-after-breaking-barriers-in-hinds-county/

She was a known problem as far as releasing criminals early. And even she said they need more courts.

Do you seriously not realize that that stuff happens everywhere? Did you actually think those links proved anything?

 

[johnson86-1]

Why would any residential areas in Jackson be of even the slightest importance to the rest of the state?

1) It's going to be hard for Jackson to function without some tax base, and the State needs Jackson to somewhat function.
2) It makes it unnecessarily costly to operate state government if everybody that wants a safe place to live has to commute 30 to 45 minutes to get to downtown.
3) We need at least one city to attract new residents. Jackson is small, but if you could snap your fingers and make it safe, it would still be considered an option by a lot of young professionals that wouldn't consider the Memphis suburbs, Tupelo, Hattiesburg, and the Coast. All of those places have their merits, but we need population and would like to attract a lot of the people that want to live in a city.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Do you seriously not realize that that stuff happens everywhere? Did you actually think those links proved anything?

Oh, I already knew I shouldn't even engage you on your vague "show me" request. Because I'm not wasting my time researching crime statistics. However, we all know that the courts in Jackson and Hinds County have plagued the police and the public for years. And sure, it happens in other places. But we're talking about Jackson here. So, how about this. YOU prove to me that it happens at this level "everywhere". I'll be waiting.

That said, my easily and readily available links, from an incredibly easy google search that you could have done had you really wanted, really kinda did drive the point home. But we all knew you wouldn't acknowledge that. I mean it's a known problem, no sense arguing over it. Why do you think they are introducing this bill to begin with, because we have a good situation??? Oh, I know, they did it JUST to stick it to the people of Jackson. GTFO of here with that nonsensical garbage.

 

[johnson86-1]

Man you seem mad.

The water is a Jackson issue. The people of Jackson should be thankful they are getting the funding and less concerned with who distributes the money given to them.

Jackson is unlike any other city in Mississippi. You can't treat Jackson like you treat Carthage, or Aberdeen, or even Meridian. It is not uncommon in other areas for large cities to get funding for improvement projects from the legislature. Jackson bills don't generally don't make it out of committee.

When something somehow slipped through the legislature last year for Lefleurs Bluff funding, the governor vetoed it. The governor of course trash talks Jackson because the yokels love it, while sending his kids to the same Jackson school within the CCID.

Not mad at all. I am glad they are attempting to spend state money to try to make Jackson liveable. Just curious as to where this neglecting Jackson narrative has come from. Jackson hasn't wanted money, at least not if it doesn't involve sufficient opportunities for graft. Look how annoyed the mayor has been for there to be some accountability and third party control over free money for Jackson's water system. Look how much flak legislators are getting for stepping in after Jackson has demonstrably shown it cannot handle basic competencies of municipal government. How early should the state government started protecting Jackson from itself?