I can’t keep up, but….

Status
Not open for further replies.

ckDOG

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2007
8,234
2,566
113
You got the TDS bad.

If you voted for Biden bc you didn’t like trump or just didn’t vote for trump and helped get Biden in, you are to blame for what’s happening.

He doesn't like you. You were his mark. Get over him and find someone that can replace Biden.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,073
5,076
113
When executive order is nearly the only way to move the needle, we've kind of killed the function of the legislative branch. It was built to be a controlled (slow) process but it should actually move.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,073
5,076
113
Just not about attempting to overthrow elections as a method for staying in power. I like constitutional America, elections by the people and all that land of the free stuff. I know it's not the most contemporary line of thinking, but it's progressive enough for me.
 

ckDOG

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2007
8,234
2,566
113
Absolutely.

When executive order is nearly the only way to move the needle, we've kind of killed the function of the legislative branch. It was built to be a controlled (slow) process but it should actually move.

It's past time to move power away from the executive and force congress to be serious again. It's controlled by too many unserious people that are more or less actors and trolls. The only thing they really are effective at is directing money and traditional non-partisan formalities and playing on their base's fears.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,073
5,076
113
Wow. I was simply suggesting that the interpretation of Biden's words might not have been on point in this case because they were being interpreted through a uniquely American lense. When a president speaks about worldwide things, it is OK to use worldwide terms. If the people in the US who hear them choose to remain insular and ignorant of what those words mean is not a negative for him.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,073
5,076
113
Again, I was simply pointing out the post was not well informed wrt to the specific terms used, not asserting how terms got usurped by the American political process. You may be 100% correct. Quite honestly, I don't have the patience to go research how it became so, I just know that it it so.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,073
5,076
113
I love the idea of term limits. I do wonder what it would mean for MS, and similar states, if their elected officials couldn't use tenure to get the assignments that allow them to funnel money to MS rather than other states?
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,073
5,076
113
He may or may not have read it correctly off the paper, but as stated it wasn't too tragic.
 

57stratdawg

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2010
27,792
3,327
113
The filibuster is dead. You’re not winning a Dem primary for US senate talking about the need for 60 votes. Look at Fetterman’s quotes.
 

Slippery Pete

New member
Sep 10, 2009
101
0
0
There are many genders, men can get pregnant, my name is not Richard, it's Rachel, etc., etc... It's quite the parallel to Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2005
22,159
9,540
113
Term limits eliminates career politicians but then sets up the possibility of really ****** representation down the road. It’s a double edged sword in my opinion.
 

Smoked Toag

New member
Jul 15, 2021
3,262
1
0
I don’t care if he liked me or not.

He was 100 times better than what we got.
Trump was better than Biden, yes. But he needs to fade on into the sunset. He had his shot, he was close to getting it done, but it didn't work out. Kinda like Danny Merlinz at Florida.

He did more than anyone ever thought he could. But he's getting into Braveheart territory now, trying to invade England and stuff, and guess what? Reality usually isn't like the movies. It won't end well, his situation is simply too untenable.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,235
2,465
113
...someone out there 200 times better.

That's fine to imagine. As long as you're not the type of petulant child that would vote to make things worse just because there is some theoretical person not on the ballot that would be better.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,235
2,465
113
Have congress be on record as raising costs on the poor and middle class and then vote them out. The successful party will be rewarded when policy works and penalized when it doesn't. Tip the 50/50 party support we have now to the party that will on record push through policy that benefits the poor and middle class.

As of now, both parties talk a lot but ultimately get blocked by 40 senators leaving decision making to a battle between executive and judiciary (my common gripe among the past several admins is that the president simply does too much - but this is largely Congress' fault). That just allows congress rehash the same messages over and over while doing nothing but fundraise for re-election and play up the identity politics game that has us all at each other's throats. Nothing gets done except recycling the same ruling class and promises on either side. Honestly they probably like it bc Congress is more theater than policy making. Why work when you can grandstand, collect your check, and keep your job?

If my choice is delegate broad authority to agencies or force congress to work and paper up the agency specifics, I choose force congress to work. But work will only create results with a 51 threshold. It's too easy for an obstructionist coalition to form requiring only 40 votes as it stands today. If we combine removing broad authority from agencies and enable congress to continue to stall itself out with a dumb voting threshold, that just makes everything worse.

Most congressmen are on record. People just don't pay attention enough for it to matter. That's why it's a bad idea to let 50%+1 decide to do destructive things to the rest of the country.

And work creates results even with the 60 vote threshold. Deciding to not do anything is a perfectly legitimate policy choice (and considering how often the federal gov't 17s things up, should be preferred as the default option).
 

GloryDawg

Well-known member
Mar 3, 2005
14,498
5,345
113
When executive order is nearly the only way to move the needle, we've kind of killed the function of the legislative branch. It was built to be a controlled (slow) process but it should actually move.

When our government created the executive order there was no planes, trans or automobiles. Not telegraph and no communication other than by mail. It would take Congress weeks to get formed in DC. It was a way the President could deal with emergency and to insure the law of the land was being followed. He cannot change or create new law with it. Sometimes I get the sense it is being abused for that reason. Also the sitting President can end any executive order he wants. Even if it was issued by a former President. This using the courts to stop a president from ending a executive order is another abuse. Just my opinion.
 

paindonthurt

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2009
9,529
2,045
113
But we didn’t have that option in 2020 but you fools didn’t like orange man bad .
 

ckDOG

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2007
8,234
2,566
113
Trump lost bc he is a petulant child

That's fine to imagine. As long as you're not the type of petulant child that would vote to make things worse just because there is some theoretical person not on the ballot that would be better.

Not from petulance voting against him. Nobody voted for Joe Biden bc they wanted a lower stock market and high gas prices. That's asinine. They were tired of Trump's constant whining and deflection. He's the opposite of a leader. Takes credits when things are good. Blames others when things are bad. Cries or name calls when he's questioned. Some of you guys get a chub for that fake macho act, but most folks hate it. Bud Kilmer of politics basically. Had he showed even basic levels of act right he'd have won the popular vote by 10+ pts - even with the Covid circumstance.
 

Smoked Toag

New member
Jul 15, 2021
3,262
1
0
Not from petulance voting against him. Nobody voted for Joe Biden bc they wanted a lower stock market and high gas prices. That's asinine. They were tired of Trump's constant whining and deflection. He's the opposite of a leader. Takes credits when things are good. Blames others when things are bad. Cries or name calls when he's questioned. Some of you guys get a chub for that fake macho act, but most folks hate it. Bud Kilmer of politics basically. Had he showed even basic levels of act right he'd have won the popular vote by 10+ pts - even with the Covid circumstance.
Republicans should be happy that Trump took all the lumps for them, because he showed them exactly how to weather anything the Democrats throw at them (basically own it or ignore it, and get right back out there and keep campaigning) and keep the name-calling down.

Desantis should have the full playbook at his disposal now.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,073
5,076
113
I suppose the definition of "senior" would change, but still exist in context of the limit.
 

ckDOG

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2007
8,234
2,566
113
Time will tell

Republicans should be happy that Trump took all the lumps for them, because he showed them exactly how to weather anything the Democrats throw at them (basically own it or ignore it, and get right back out there and keep campaigning) and keep the name-calling down.

Desantis should have the full playbook at his disposal now.

There's no doubt that Desantis and others are trying to mirror the Trump playbook. I think it works well in certain house districts and some states, but it's a risky brand for a lot of state offices and certainly President. You have to be an excellent actor (or just truly wired that way) to pull it off.

I think what they may be underestimating is Trump's charisma. He's a once in a century personality. He has a cult like following amongst a certain group of people that formerly felt disenfranchised in the political process. Surely there's some carryover momentum once he's gone, but his successors are probably going to fail. There's only one Donald Trump. The man is so good at building his following that he is still fundraising off lies and not using the money for what he said he would. And the kicker is they don't care. It's an an amazing cult of personality to watch happen in real time. He was absolutely right about being able to shoot someone on 5th avenue.

Will they love Ron Desantis like they love Trump? Maybe, but I doubt it. Ron seems like he might get rattled and defensive in a high pressure situation. I doubt he deflects and pivots to offense near as well as Don could. If you try and fail while doing that, you just get labelled as a jackass.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,235
2,465
113
Not from petulance voting against him. Nobody voted for Joe Biden bc they wanted a lower stock market and high gas prices. That's asinine. They were tired of Trump's constant whining and deflection. He's the opposite of a leader. Takes credits when things are good. Blames others when things are bad. Cries or name calls when he's questioned. Some of you guys get a chub for that fake macho act, but most folks hate it. Bud Kilmer of politics basically. Had he showed even basic levels of act right he'd have won the popular vote by 10+ pts - even with the Covid circumstance.

If you voted for Biden because you were tired of Trump's personality, then yes, you are a petulant child and depending on what state you live in, helped impose some crushing burdens on some working class people. Congrats on that.

I would have been happy to have Trump policies without Trump, but that wasn't an option and unlike some people, I'm not a petulant child and am not going to vote for destructive policies just because I don't like the personality of the president.

Also, it's funny that anybody would vote for Biden because of Trump. Biden has basically all of Trump's flaws but he doesn't tweet. So it literally comes down to do I want a lying, morally impaired *** hole with bad policy and no tweets? Or do I want a lying, morally impaired *** hole with good policy and bad tweets? That shouldn't be a hard decision.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,235
2,465
113
A ****** person for 8 years is better than a ****** person for 30

A ****** person you can at least vote against is better than an unelected bureaucrat that's almost impossible to fire.

We already have bureaucrats essentially imposing their own policy by just stopping work and trying to run out the clock and hope a new president comes in. We don't need them even less of a check on their power.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,235
2,465
113
FWIW, this liberal thinks he's an authoritarian fascist.

Of course, because everything somebody doesn't like must be fascist.

But he's probably like most people and not really ideological, or maybe not ideological except for a key issue or two (such as free speech).

Very few people even think about ideology enough to develop a coherent, consistent ideology. And that's not a criticism; that's just a more typical/normal personality.
 

Drebin

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
16,839
13,785
113
FWIW, this liberal thinks he's an authoritarian fascist.

That particular F word gets thrown around a lot by people who don't know what it means.

Fascists are not free speech advocates. Fascist behavior on social media platforms is exactly what he's railing against right now.
 

ckDOG

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2007
8,234
2,566
113
Tell me more about Don's platform.

If you voted for Biden because you were tired of Trump's personality, then yes, you are a petulant child and depending on what state you live in, helped impose some crushing burdens on some working class people. Congrats on that.

I would have been happy to have Trump policies without Trump, but that wasn't an option and unlike some people, I'm not a petulant child and am not going to vote for destructive policies just because I don't like the personality of the president.

Also, it's funny that anybody would vote for Biden because of Trump. Biden has basically all of Trump's flaws but he doesn't tweet. So it literally comes down to do I want a lying, morally impaired *** hole with bad policy and no tweets? Or do I want a lying, morally impaired *** hole with good policy and bad tweets? That shouldn't be a hard decision.

Here's a hint. He didn't have one. Not a personal platform or a party platform. You can't predict anything he will do other than on bet on whatever decision will benefit him personally in the moment or provide him the biggest ego stroke from those immediately around him. He would flip to Democrat policies the moment he felt it benefited him more than republican. In fact, he's been one. He does not care about conservatism, conservative policies, or the people that embrace them. He craves power and service to himself only and is a walking conflict of interest as a president. If you are comfortable with that bc gas prices and stock market prices are to your liking in the moment, you are no more emotionally mature off than this petulant child.
 

Drebin

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
16,839
13,785
113
Seems like Congress is going to have to be far more specific and delegate less broad authorities to federal agencies (they aren't going away and still are necessary for both parties)...also known as doing their job. It's a big short term disruption, but hopefully for the better in the long run.

No matter which take you have on policy, seems to me that the 60 vote threshold is going to kneecap getting anything done to the detriment of all Americans. Take it back to 51, let a handful of of middle road politicians be squeaky wheels in policy development, and force compromise with the threat that legislation has an actual chance at passing with a true majority vote. Senate minority representation is still preserved with Wyoming having the same influence as NY or CA. Make Congress finally put up or shut up instead of hiding behind the unrealistic 60 vote threshold where policy is promised but never delivered.

You need the filibuster in the Senate. The house is partisan by design. The senate is supposed to be a check on that. You can't have the senate passing legislation on a 51 vote majority. If that's the case, you'll just see a cycle of new legislation intended to undo prior legislation. Requiring 60 votes requires bipartisanship, which is sorely needed in the senate. Liberals crying about nuking the filibuster are the same ones who used it hundreds of times under Trump.

Term limits, on the other hand, would be a nice thing to introduce.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Get unlimited access today.

Pick the right plan for you.

Already a member? Login