I like this offense better than Leach’s

MSUDC11-2.0

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The Leach offense was nice when it worked but ugly when it didn’t. I understand why he was successful with it for two decades, but it definitely had a clear ceiling.

Jury is still out on Barbay and will be for several more games, but I liked what we were doing conceptually in Game 1.
 

OG Goat Holder

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The Leach offense was nice when it worked but ugly when it didn’t. I understand why he was successful with it for two decades, but it definitely had a clear ceiling.

Jury is still out on Barbay and will be for several more games, but I liked what we were doing conceptually in Game 1.
Did it? You realize that what Johnny Football did was the Air Raid?

EVERY offense’s ceiling is dictated by talent.
 

IBleedMaroonDawg

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298 yds rushing - 7.6 yards per rush
227 yds passing - 7.8 yards per pass
23 - 1st downs
Zero turnovers
One penalty
Zero sacks

We did what we should have done in our first game with this bunch. I keep saying that not to excuse their performance. I'm hoping this is just an indication that we might develop something more substantial. Passing is awesome, but taking the ball and running it down their throats will break them.
 

Perd Hapley

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Did it? You realize that what Johnny Football did was the Air Raid?

EVERY offense’s ceiling is dictated by talent.

In 2012, Sumlin averaged 38 passes and 41 runs per game. Just because he used some of the Leach / Kingsbury route trees on passing plays does not mean he ran the Air Raid. Leach and Mumme were the only ones to truly run the real Air Raid.
 

She Mate Me

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298 yds rushing - 7.6 yards per rush
227 yds passing - 7.8 yards per pass
23 - 1st downs
Zero turnovers
One penalty
Zero sacks

We did what we should have done in our first game with this bunch. I keep saying that not to excuse their performance. I'm hoping this is just an indication that we might develop something more substantial. Passing is awesome, but taking the ball and running it down their throats will break them.

We were playing SELA. The numbers just don't mean much yet.
 

BA Dog

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I would like to have seen us run the air raid a few more years. I can’t help but wonder what it would have looked like with a guy like Parsons at quarter back. I liked us being a team that ran a different offense than everyone else. Unless we start recruiting with the top of the pack I don’t see us ever out Alabamaing Alabama or out LSUing LSU or any other top team consistently. I liked the idea of being different on offense wether that be with the air raid or even going to the triple option to try and level the playing field.
Every few years Leach and Paul Johnson had some really good teams running niche offenses. I hated seeing Georgia Tech on the schedule when we played them in the past when they ran the triple option. I don’t think anyone minds seeing them on their schedule now.
 

OG Goat Holder

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The offense A&M ran was not the same as what Leach ran. Nobody ran the 1998 Tim Couch style Air Raid anymore except for Leach.
It actually was. Every coach is different, but it was very close. Sumlin never ran his QB until Johnny came along because, SHAZAAM, he actually COULD run it, at an effective level, while also being an accurate passer.

It's not as easy as the morons say to just 'go get a running quarterback'. I've been telling ya'll this for years but it hasn't sunk in.
 
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She Mate Me

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I'm sorry I wasn't talking about the Numbers themselves being impressive, I was talking about the fact that they were equal and that we didn't make any mistakes. I'm sorry I won't use any numbers that don't go over 400 or 500 yards again.

Sorry, didn't intend that to be critical. I just think we're all so starved for football, we're attributing a lot to a game that tells us very little.

I was glad to see no turnovers and very disciplined play as far as penalties. Special teams was also an overall bright spot.

We looked well coached even if the execution needs to improve in many spots.
 

SouthFarmchicken

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It actually was. Every coach is different, but it was very close. Sumlin never ran his QB until Johnny came along because, SHAZAAM, he actually COULD run it, at an effective level, while also being an accurate passer.

It's not as easy as the morons say to just 'go get a running quarterback'. I've been telling ya'll this for years but it hasn't sunk in.
It’s not that difficult to find a dual threat QB. In this era, the majority of successful QBs in college are dual threat QBs. Hell, we have two on the roster that are not ready yet.

Certainly, we could’ve stolen someone like Jalon Daniels from Kansas if we got super aggressive.
 

OG Goat Holder

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It’s not that difficult to find a dual threat QB. In this era, the majority of successful QBs in college are dual threat QBs. Hell, we have two on the roster that are not ready yet.

Certainly, we could’ve stolen someone like Jalon Daniels from Kansas if we got super aggressive.
Wrong. It's not difficult to find a QB who runs well but is a less than good passer (Mike Wright, Nick Fitzgerald). But it is EXTREMELY difficult to find a guy who is great at both (Dak, Johnny, Cam).
 
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patdog

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Yeah.

A solid win over Arizona won't tell us much about how we compare to LSU and Bama, but it will say more than SELA.

A close win or loss will tell us things we don't want to know.
True. I think we already know how we compare to LSU and Bama though. I want to know how we compare to the rest of our SEC opponents though.
 

BELdog

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Mike Leach was good for MSU. His offense was not my favorite, but I don’t think we have nearly the same wide receiver talent without his tenure. Guys like Burnside and Harrell in this year’s class don’t commit to State historically, especially two of them in the same class. So, I think Leach’s offense helped us attract talent we might have otherwise missed out on, but I am glad to see us move to an offense that is a little more balanced.
 

SouthFarmchicken

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Wrong. It's not difficult to find a QB who runs well but is a less than good passer (Mike Wright, Nick Fitzgerald). But it is EXTREMELY difficult to find a guy who is great at both (Dak, Johnny, Cam).
I’m not arguing that. I’m saying duel threats are available. Spencer Sanders was available. He would be unreal
In this offense and he is a backup at Ole Miss.

In college, it’s better to have an average passer with legs than a good to great passer that is a statue.

We have a statue that can’t stretch the field with his arm. It’s a recipe for no points in SEC play.
 

L4Dawg

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I would like to have seen us run the air raid a few more years. I can’t help but wonder what it would have looked like with a guy like Parsons at quarter back. I liked us being a team that ran a different offense than everyone else. Unless we start recruiting with the top of the pack I don’t see us ever out Alabamaing Alabama or out LSUing LSU or any other top team consistently. I liked the idea of being different on offense wether that be with the air raid or even going to the triple option to try and level the playing field.
Every few years Leach and Paul Johnson had some really good teams running niche offenses. I hated seeing Georgia Tech on the schedule when we played them in the past when they ran the triple option. I don’t think anyone minds seeing them on their schedule now.
Different offenses that very few people run are that way for a reason. Even the ones (like the wishbone) that DID work for a lot of teams for a while.
 

OG Goat Holder

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I’m not arguing that. I’m saying duel threats are available. Spencer Sanders was available. He would be unreal
In this offense and he is a backup at Ole Miss.

In college, it’s better to have an average passer with legs than a good to great passer that is a statue.

We have a statue that can’t stretch the field with his arm. It’s a recipe for no points in SEC play.
For us, most years, you are correct. And if Arnett/Barbay are gung ho on not throwing it around the yard, that might be the case for this year too. But I don’t think that maximizes our potential THIS season.

I am hopeful last Saturday was a mix of us being vanilla and having some receivers banged up. Because we need Rogers to chunk the ball around.
 

OG Goat Holder

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I would like to have seen us run the air raid a few more years. I can’t help but wonder what it would have looked like with a guy like Parsons at quarter back. I liked us being a team that ran a different offense than everyone else. Unless we start recruiting with the top of the pack I don’t see us ever out Alabamaing Alabama or out LSUing LSU or any other top team consistently. I liked the idea of being different on offense wether that be with the air raid or even going to the triple option to try and level the playing field.
Every few years Leach and Paul Johnson had some really good teams running niche offenses. I hated seeing Georgia Tech on the schedule when we played them in the past when they ran the triple option. I don’t think anyone minds seeing them on their schedule now.
Agreed. We have built up to a peak year, and it’s frustrating to see Arnett want to get away from it so quickly with the personnel we have. I’m going to wait a little longer to fully judge though. I mean it seems so many of the ‘run the ball’ crowd don’t realize that running lanes appeared open last year BECAUSE of the Air Raid. If we stop spreading it out and chunking it around, those lanes close.
 

blitz2Win

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Agreed. We have built up to a peak year, and it’s frustrating to see Arnett want to get away from it so quickly with the personnel we have. I’m going to wait a little longer to fully judge though. I mean it seems so many of the ‘run the ball’ crowd don’t realize that running lanes appeared open last year BECAUSE of the Air Raid. If we stop spreading it out and chunking it around, those lanes close.
New scheme introduced during a peak year, if they struggle could be a lot like 2018. Probably should have introduced the new scheme next year when it’s a rebuild anyway.
 
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PooPopsBaldHead

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Agreed. We have built up to a peak year, and it’s frustrating to see Arnett want to get away from it so quickly with the personnel we have. I’m going to wait a little longer to fully judge though. I mean it seems so many of the ‘run the ball’ crowd don’t realize that running lanes appeared open last year BECAUSE of the Air Raid. If we stop spreading it out and chunking it around, those lanes close.

New scheme introduced during a peak year, if they struggle could be a lot like 2018. Probably should have introduced the new scheme next year when it’s a rebuild anyway.

I would argue that running the same offense with anyone other than Mike Leach calling the plays would have been a disaster. While the tree is big, everyone that sprouted from Leach's air raid and has found success, did it by adding wrinkles (mobile QBs in particular) to the mix.

I watched the goat of the air raid's play calling get shutdown many times last year for long periods of time before he figured it out. I can't imagine anyone else being able to do it close to the same level. We put up a whooping 13 points in the bowl game without Leach calling plays.

Now you want to talk about bringing in a strong armed or mobile QB or preferably both, then lots of people can call that air raid offense. But only Leach was capable of winning with someone with Will's qualities at QB in the air raid.
 

blitz2Win

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I would argue that running the same offense with anyone other than Mike Leach calling the plays would have been a disaster. While the tree is big, everyone that sprouted from Leach's air raid and has found success, did it by adding wrinkles (mobile QBs in particular) to the mix.

I watched the goat of the air raid's play calling get shutdown many times last year for long periods of time before he figured it out. I can't imagine anyone else being able to do it close to the same level. We put up a whooping 13 points in the bowl game without Leach calling plays.

Now you want to talk about bringing in a strong armed or mobile QB or preferably both, then lots of people can call that air raid offense. But only Leach was capable of winning with someone with Will's qualities at QB in the air raid.
I think the compromise was to keep the offense in place but add tight ends and a running game like Briles does. I think the staff we had here would have made continuity and ten wins a strong possibility. I’m watching Hollingshead up at WKU and he’s going to be a name to watch.

if you have all seniors who are very strong in this system, might not be the best time to tear it all apart, next year would be that time. JOMo 2018 keeps reminding me.
 

onewoof

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We went from 3 yards & a cloud of dust to 2 yards with no dust. We had a few breakout games but mostly it was little dumps in front of the linebackers. Over and over and over
 
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blitz2Win

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We went from 3 yards & a cloud of dust to 2 yards with no dust. We had a few breakout games but mostly it was little dumps in front of the linebackers. Over and over and over
The thing is we went 9-4, return alost the whole team and have an easier schedule. Will we win 9+ games this year ? If not why not ?
I think you could have kept things in place for 1 peak season, even altered them with tight ends, narrower splits, more of a running game. Time will tell.
you pretty much lose most of the team after this year, the drastic changes would have made more sense to implement next year.
 
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OG Goat Holder

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I think the compromise was to keep the offense in place but add tight ends and a running game like Briles does. I think the staff we had here would have made continuity and ten wins a strong possibility. I’m watching Hollingshead up at WKU and he’s going to be a name to watch.

if you have all seniors who are very strong in this system, might not be the best time to tear it all apart, next year would be that time. JOMo 2018 keeps reminding me.
To me it’s a matter of having a good TE, rather than just a TE.
 
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ChE1997

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I think the compromise was to keep the offense in place but add tight ends and a running game like Briles does. I think the staff we had here would have made continuity and ten wins a strong possibility. I’m watching Hollingshead up at WKU and he’s going to be a name to watch.

if you have all seniors who are very strong in this system, might not be the best time to tear it all apart, next year would be that time. JOMo 2018 keeps reminding me.
Running the air raid without leach would be dumb, and would be getting an interim OC with a one year deal which would be extra dumb.

We were best last year when we ran the ball 25+ times. We needed to switch to a more up to date air raid (see Riley at USC). We got a good young OC with free rein to run his system. It doesn't fit will perfectly, but Will is good enough to run it.

Ideally, we need a mobile QB that can make the throws, but doesn't everyone?

Also, from what i have seen and read about Barbay's system, it fits the talent in Mississippi. Leach needed QB's from out of state that ran his air raid in HS ( like most of texas HS's) with Leach, he could get them because the was a GOD in texas HS football.
 

ChE1997

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The thing is we went 9-4, return alost the whole team and have an easier schedule. Will we win 9+ games this year ? If not why not ?
I think you could have kept things in place for 1 peak season, even altered them with tight ends, narrower splits, more of a running game. Time will tell.
you pretty much lose most of the team after this year, the drastic changes would have made more sense to implement next year.
that's a different offense.

It also sounds a lot like what we have now....
 
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blitz2Win

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Running the air raid without leach would be dumb, and would be getting an interim OC with a one year deal which would be extra dumb.

We were best last year when we ran the ball 25+ times. We needed to switch to a more up to date air raid (see Riley at USC). We got a good young OC with free rein to run his system. It doesn't fit will perfectly, but Will is good enough to run it.

Ideally, we need a mobile QB that can make the throws, but doesn't everyone?

Also, from what i have seen and read about Barbay's system, it fits the talent in Mississippi. Leach needed QB's from out of state that ran his air raid in HS ( like most of texas HS's) with Leach, he could get them because the was a GOD in texas HS football.
Well every coach that was let go was long steeped in the air raid As was the entire team, especially the O line. Running more of a Briles version would have been an easier transition. Barbay has a pretty different system, a lot of the problem is the O line and I think Wright is going to wind up being the qb if we lose a couple in a row upcoming.

Hollingshead is doing a heck of a job running the air raid up at WKU. I think he could have stepped right in.
 

ChE1997

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Well every coach that was let go was long steeped in the air raid As was the entire team, especially the O line. Running more of a Briles version would have been an easier transition. Barbay doesn’t run anything close, a lot of the problem is the O line and I think Wright is going to wind up being the qb if we lose a couple in a row upcoming.
and the tradition continues of the backup being the best QB on campus...

Of those that left, which ones are OC's in the air raid?

And Briles great offense looked like **** vs the buffs.
 

patdog

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Last I checked, 2nd half stats count.
Yeah, but I’d be a lot more impressed with our offense if we’d put up more of those stats before their defense was gassed. Those 30 & 40 yard runs won’t be as easy to come by against the rest of our schedule.
 
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