Is Patrick Mahomes in the top 15 of NFL QBs all-time?

[saturdaysarebetter]

No, he didn’t.

He most certainly did. He never won a title at any level. Stats don't lie.

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR
'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR
'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR
'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR
'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR
1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!
1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR
1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

Two-interception Marino was a big game choking turnover machine!

Five times in his career Marino in Miami he had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino. They knew how to win Super Bowls. Marino choked in big games.

He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw. So it wasn't he had no defense, he had no running backs, he had no OL. He had it all at times and still choked.

https://floridastate.rivals.com/new...er-no-3-pitt-one-of-biggest-in-school-history

https://www.google.com/amp/s/observ...ebf3587e-0683-11eb-93c5-bfd5b6738e08.amp.html

Marino never won a title even in high school where quarterbacks dominate.

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

Check out this comparison of QBs and their play from the regular season to the post-season and notice the drop-off in play for Marino (choker). Notice the two QBs that improved the most from the regular season to the post-season where the spotlight is the brightest, the pressure the greatest: Bart Starr and Terry Bradshaw.

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

How do you sign Dan Marino in sign language?

 

[Ludd]

He most certainly did. He never won a title at any level. Stats don't lie.

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR
'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR
'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR
'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR
'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR
1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!
1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR
1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

Two-interception Marino was a big game choking turnover machine!

Five times in his career Marino in Miami he had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino. They knew how to win Super Bowls. Marino choked in big games.

He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw. So it wasn't he had no defense, he had no running backs, he had no OL. He had it all at times and still choked.

https://floridastate.rivals.com/new...er-no-3-pitt-one-of-biggest-in-school-history

https://www.google.com/amp/s/observ...ebf3587e-0683-11eb-93c5-bfd5b6738e08.amp.html

Marino never won a title even in high school where quarterbacks dominate.

As a life long Dolphins fan, I can promise you the Dolphins defense was never good outside of one year of Marino’s career and their run game was never good. Everything he did was done when every defense knew what was coming. You can call him a choker all you want, but he made the Dolphins a playoff caliber team when they weren’t and they especially weren’t a SB contending team. Without him they would have had three wins a year, tops. When a lesser team gets to the playoffs, their weaknesses get exposed more due to playing better teams. Throw all the stats out you want, but I watched those games and lived and died with those teams and Marino was not the reason they lost, he was the only reason they were there. Had Marino played on a better team with a running game, he would have won multiple SB’s.

 

[pamdlion]

He most certainly did. He never won a title at any level. Stats don't lie.

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR
'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR
'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR
'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR
'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR
1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!
1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR
1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

Two-interception Marino was a big game choking turnover machine!

Five times in his career Marino in Miami he had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino. They knew how to win Super Bowls. Marino choked in big games.

He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw. So it wasn't he had no defense, he had no running backs, he had no OL. He had it all at times and still choked.

https://floridastate.rivals.com/new...er-no-3-pitt-one-of-biggest-in-school-history

https://www.google.com/amp/s/observ...ebf3587e-0683-11eb-93c5-bfd5b6738e08.amp.html

Marino never won a title even in high school where quarterbacks dominate.

There was no state tournament when Marino was in high school.

 

[Ludd]

He most certainly did. He never won a title at any level. Stats don't lie.

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR
'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR
'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR
'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR
'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR
1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!
1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR
1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

Two-interception Marino was a big game choking turnover machine!

Five times in his career Marino in Miami he had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino. They knew how to win Super Bowls. Marino choked in big games.

He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw. So it wasn't he had no defense, he had no running backs, he had no OL. He had it all at times and still choked.

https://floridastate.rivals.com/new...er-no-3-pitt-one-of-biggest-in-school-history

https://www.google.com/amp/s/observ...ebf3587e-0683-11eb-93c5-bfd5b6738e08.amp.html

Marino never won a title even in high school where quarterbacks dominate.

And by the way, both Hall of Fame coaches admitted later on that they handled things with Marino incorrectly because neither established or maintained a running game because Marino made it too easy just to rely on his passing. And back then, you weren’t winning any playoff games without a running game.

 

[Ludd]

Brady
Montana
Elway
Unitas
Manning
Stabler

just off the top of my head

Stabler? Not even close according to anyone who knows football. Unitas? Well, Don Shula said Marino was the best QB he ever coached and guess who else he coached? Yeah, Johnny Unitas. Elway became “great” after he got a running game…something Marino never had.

 

[Nitt1300]

Stabler? Not even close according to anyone who knows football. Unitas? Well, Don Shula said Marino was the best QB he ever coached and guess who else he coached? Yeah, Johnny Unitas. Elway became “great” after he got a running game…something Marino never had.

it's clear that you don't know much

 

[AvgUser]

it's clear that you don't know much

Are you debating Stabler or Unitas? If Stabler, I think he was very goor, but not top 6. Maybe top 15

 

[Jason1743]

Mahommes is absolutely top 15. IMO he has a chance for top 5, but he needs more years. Too early for top 5, but very foreseeable.

 

[troutrus]

K.I.S.S. method as measured by the only statistic that matters when all is said and done.

Here’s the top 4:
Brady - 7
Montana - 4
Bradshaw - 4
Aikman - 3

9 qb’s tied for 5th with 2 wins.

 

[Jason1743]

K.I.S.S. method as measured by the only statistic that matters when all is said and done.

Here’s the top 4:
Brady - 7
Montana - 4
Bradshaw - 4
Aikman - 3

9 qb’s tied for 5th with 2 wins.

According to this criteria Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Mark Rypien and Jeff Hostetler are 4 of the top 24 QBs. The rest of the team does make a difference.

 

[Woodpecker]

the only statistic that matters when all is said and done

Wins? Wouldn't that be
Brady
Favre/Manning
Brees
Roethlisberger
Elway
Marino/Rogers
.
.
.

 

[Nitt1300]

Are you debating Stabler or Unitas? If Stabler, I think he was very goor, but not top 6. Maybe top 15

With under 2 minutes to win a game, I'm not sure I would pick anybody over the Snake.

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

There was no state tournament when Marino was in high school.

He didn't win the WPIAL at Central Catholic, let alone state.

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

And by the way, both Hall of Fame coaches admitted later on that they handled things with Marino incorrectly because neither established or maintained a running game because Marino made it too easy just to rely on his passing. And back then, you weren’t winning any playoff games without a running game.

So why didn't he win at Pitt?

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

As a life long Dolphins fan, I can promise you the Dolphins defense was never good outside of one year of Marino’s career and their run game was never good. Everything he did was done when every defense knew what was coming. You can call him a choker all you want, but he made the Dolphins a playoff caliber team when they weren’t and they especially weren’t a SB contending team. Without him they would have had three wins a year, tops. When a lesser team gets to the playoffs, their weaknesses get exposed more due to playing better teams. Throw all the stats out you want, but I watched those games and lived and died with those teams and Marino was not the reason they lost, he was the only reason they were there. Had Marino played on a better team with a running game, he would have won multiple SB’s.

Sorry this fact disputes that: Five times in his career Marino in Miami he had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed.

 

[troutrus]

Wins? Wouldn't that be
Brady
Favre/Manning
Brees
Roethlisberger
Elway
Marino/Rogers
.
.
.

Not just wins, Super Bowl wins.

 

[pamdlion]

He didn't win the WPIAL at Central Catholic, let alone state.

Believe they lost to a great Penn Hills team at some point with Tom Flynn, Bill Fralic, Dan Biondo, Bob Lawson and others. There was no state championship at that time.

 

[Woodpecker]

Not just wins, Super Bowl wins.

So then Doug Williams who was MVP of every Super Bowl he played in?

 

[Ludd]

Sorry this fact disputes that: Five times in his career Marino in Miami he had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed.

Points allowed is just one aspect of measuring a defense. Teams were able to control the ball and keep the offense off the field. Had you watched as many games as I did, you would understand it goes beyond the stats. Marino had so many fourth quarter come back wins because the defense gave up so many leads late in the game.

 

[Ludd]

Not just wins, Super Bowl wins.

So a QB can win a SB all by himself? I didn’t know that.

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

Points allowed is just one aspect of measuring a defense. Teams were able to control the ball and keep the offense off the field. Had you watched as many games as I did, you would understand it goes beyond the stats. Marino had so many fourth quarter come back wins because the defense gave up so many leads late in the game.

I would say points allowed is the defining way to measure a defense wouldn't you?

How many fourth quarter come back wins in the post-season? Perhaps all those 4th quarter come back wins were set up by Marino throwing two interceptions before then for the Dolphins to fall behind in the first place.

 

[Ludd]

I would say points allowed is the defining way to measure a defense wouldn't you?

How many fourth quarter come back wins in the post-season? Perhaps all those 4th quarter come back wins were set up by Marino throwing two interceptions before then for the Dolphins to fall behind in the first place.

Nope and nope.