Just lost the only CB in our class

Rupert Jenkins

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Wheat was juco, Charlton was portal, Matthew's was portal, Green was portal. This year Pittman was juco Lee was portal, Rogers, Jones, the safety from Bama was last year I think. Nicholson was juco last year. Roberson is playing some. Jrob was portal, Spivey, Goede. No DL tho this year. We missed the portal window after Leach passed but we didn't miss the spring portal. We may have missed on who we got tho. Hmm
 

The Cooterpoot

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Define “enough NIL money”, because I can absolutely assure you we don’t have it.

It’s hilarious that people think that this year’s class is the beginning of this because of the current staff / team. It’s the exact opposite….this year’s team is the way it is BECAUSE of us getting our tails handed to us in NIL for 3+ years now. We haven’t signed an elite MS kid since Moorhead inked Forbes in the 2020 class. We need at least a couple of guys at that level every damn year.
We aren't going to beat out Alabama and LSU for any recruit very often and it has nothing to do with NIL. Our NIL is better than our recruiting ranking right now which is dead *** last.
 
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DoomSlayer

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A lot of these problems started under Leach. For all the **** Mullen took over recruiting we would kill for the job he did right now. I’m really fearful at what we look like in 2 years.
 
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Johnnie Come Lately

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He did well at Ole Miss and he’s doing well at Jax State. We could do a lot worse.

I’ve been vocal about hiring Malzahn, but Rich Rod may be better for us.
Malzahn would be a good get for us. I am not certain that he would want to leave Central Florida, though. They are in a Power 5 conference. Texas and Oklahoma are about to be our problem and not theirs.

With that being said, I would like to see Mike Bianchi's take on his Golden Knights 0-3 (soon to be 0-4) start in their inaugural Big 12 season. Maybe he thinks they would fair better in the SEC....
 

Will Rogers.sixpack

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You are correct, but I can’t let you take credit for this 😂. I’ve been screaming this idea for years.
So have I. I wanted to hire Paul Johnson way back when. Now more than ever, with the way college football is now, and with who we are in that realm, something that extreme, with a great coach like a Paul Johnson or Mike Leach is eminent.
 

Will Rogers.sixpack

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seems to me your only meaningful losses to the portal have been rara and dillion johnson--both really good players. i don't know your roster that well, but i can't name a portal player of significance on either side of the ball for you guys. it seems strange to me that ya'll aren't attacking the portal in the same way OM has been doing.
Why does it seem strange? They’re spending more money attacking the portal. It’s almost that simple.
 

Will Rogers.sixpack

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Didn’t we just have a thread on this a few days ago and a poster showed every recruiting class going back many years and Leachs classes were right At the avg historical ranking ? I guess no talent goes 9-4 and returning most of that 9-4 team is why there were so many predictions for 10 wins this year. because there is no talent
Leach would still be calling and running his “system” offense, and Arnett would still be solely preparing for and calling our defense instead of now standing on the sideline arms folded and emotionless. We lost both our head coach and both our offensive and defensive coordinators. Both look completely different
 

Perd Hapley

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We aren't going to beat out Alabama and LSU for any recruit very often and it has nothing to do with NIL. Our NIL is better than our recruiting ranking right now which is dead *** last.
What does it have to do with, then?

And if we can’t beat them for recruits and its not due to NIL how come Ole Miss does it regularly, including this year for 3 different DL?

Believe it or not, Bama / LSU both wanted Fletcher Cox, Jeff Simmons, Chris Jones, Willie Gay, Leo Lewis, and others very very badly. They didn’t get them.
 

blitz2Win

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Leach would still be calling and running his “system” offense, and Arnett would still be solely preparing for and calling our defense instead of now standing on the sideline arms folded and emotionless. We lost both our head coach and both our offensive and defensive coordinators. Both look completely different
Yea I saw a good question asked somewhere, would being ranked behind Vandy in recruiting and being a 9 point dog to a 2-5 Arkansas team , only 6 games into the season be a record for tanking a program ?

I think it might be a record considering we are coming off a 9-4 season. that was quick.
 
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The Cooterpoot

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What does it have to do with, then?

And if we can’t beat them for recruits and its not due to NIL how come Ole Miss does it regularly, including this year for 3 different DL?

Believe it or not, Bama / LSU both wanted Fletcher Cox, Jeff Simmons, Chris Jones, Willie Gay, Leo Lewis, and others very very badly. They didn’t get them.
They're blue blood programs who routinely fill the NFL draft with players and they win titles. And OM doesn't regularly beat out those teams for players either- That's laughable. Everything isn't about NIL.
 

Rupert Jenkins

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There wasn't even NIL when any of those guys signed anyway. So that is irrelevant as far as why they came to State and not Bama. But we are never gonna recruit like LSU or Tam or Bama. Might compete with them if we won more. That always helps. Kids wanna be winners. A few 10 and 2 seasons would help. How the 17 do we get that tho ??
 

Perd Hapley

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They're blue blood programs who routinely fill the NFL draft with players and they win titles. And OM doesn't regularly beat out those teams for players either- That's laughable. Everything isn't about NIL.
Then explain why them and Florida have the Top 4 players in MS, and we have zero. Like it or not, they are paying up, because they can. Surely you don’t think they are all taking half of what they’d get at Bama or LSU to stay in state?
 

Perd Hapley

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There wasn't even NIL when any of those guys signed anyway. So that is irrelevant as far as why they came to State and not Bama. But we are never gonna recruit like LSU or Tam or Bama. Might compete with them if we won more. That always helps. Kids wanna be winners. A few 10 and 2 seasons would help. How the 17 do we get that tho ??
That’s the entire point. NIL turned a silent auction into an open bidding war. It drove the price through the roof by bringing in totally new money from folks who would have paid before if it was legal, and it completely removed the informal protections of out of state blue bloods from coming in and just taking over. They picked their spots here and there pre-NIL….but had to be careful how often they went to the well to stay out of NCAA trouble. That’s no longer the case.

Bama could have had Jones, Cox, etc if they made a point to get them….but each year they had probably 4-5 other guys in the class that were either equal or only a minor drop off. So no need to upset the apple cart. That concern no longer exists, and its no coincidence that we started striking out on all the high end talent once NIL became a thing.
 
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Eleven Bravo

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I completely get the Coach Leach praise over here...he won some games, was competitive in some losses, and beat OM in his final game. His life is an interesting tale. After a somewhat abysmal start at State he appeared to have the program headed in the right direction. BUT, one can't (or should'nt) fail to notice that Coach Leach is the person primarily responsible for the talent level of this year's team. The talent on the offensive line and overall on the defensive side is below the level State has enjoyed in its recent history and overall team speed seems to have dropped. State's team recruiting rankings for the last three years are similar to that at OM. However, State has not had great success in the the portal. Did your admin and Coach Leach fail to appreciate the significance of the portal in today's game? Or, is there some other cause for the talent deficit? Or, do you guys think the current issues are less about talent and more related
seems to me your only meaningful losses to the portal have been rara and dillion johnson--both really good players. i don't know your roster that well, but i can't name a portal player of significance on either side of the ball for you guys. it seems strange to me that ya'll aren't attacking the portal in the same way OM has been doing.
Well, I’m not sure that the powers-that-be at our school want to “attack” the portal the way om (and plenty of others) are “attacking the portal” at this point in time. The way om has picked up starter-quality players isn’t exactly how the portal was designed to be used. There are certain schools who will secretly initiate contact with a player who isn’t currently in the portal and work a deal with the player to come to their school. They negotiate and come up with the dollar figures and reach an agreement. The next step is the player enters the portal and announces his new destination a few days later. It’s all done under the cover of secrecy and it all looks legit after it’s all done. When you see a “star” player, or at least a guy who was a starter at his former school enter the portal and sign with his new team within a couple of days that seems like a dead giveaway that a deal was made before the player hit the portal. The only problem with it is that it is totally against the rules. Seems we lost a starter to the portal after last season and that player signed with another, more high profile school almost immediately. In our case it comes down to putting out that kind of money to get that type of player out of the portal. The portal is full of players (over 1000 of them at any given time) but most of those players are there because they aren’t very good or they have so many personal problems that no one wants to risk placing them in their locker rooms due to their attitudes. It’s all a money game now, and to get a really high quality player through the portal schools have to pony up some pretty big dollars on the front end. The portal seems to be a throwback to the days when people just handed over bags of cash to high school players prior to signing day. That’s just what I see happening with the portal-maybe I’m completely wrong, but I’m pretty confident that this is what’s happening now
 
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Maroon13

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A truth that doesn't help recruiting, is when they come on a visit and see a half empty stadium.

...and it isn't because "the team sucks". The AZ crowd was poor. The LSU crowd was pitiful before kickoff.

I'm sure when the kids are at school or out in their community.... they hear all this exaggeration gloom too.
 

The Cooterpoot

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Then explain why them and Florida have the Top 4 players in MS, and we have zero. Like it or not, they are paying up, because they can. Surely you don’t think they are all taking half of what they’d get at Bama or LSU to stay in state?
Because (a) rankings are for entertainment outside of the top recruits in the country (b) they don't all have offers from AL and LSU
OM does better in the portal than HS recruiting. That's NIL.
 

blitz2Win

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If you look around the country, many if not most teams added quality starters through the portal. Arizona added a ton, Iowa got a few, most of the sec schools did. we added zero starters in the portal. leach added Polk, Lasoya, Banks, Charlton,, Matthews, Green, JRob....just no excuse for the portal busts that were signed this year. This staff was entirely focused on a cluster ¥^_¥ offensive rebuild and ignored shoring up the defense.

you can’t tell me there wasn’t a DL we could have signed instead of Goede, Roberson and Spivey.
 

Ibdancin

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Drops us to last in the conference in the 247 rankings, and while there’s still a lot of time, the list of uncommitted options is dwindling.

This coaching staff is just not competing right now in any area
We have been reduced to raiding Ga Tech and La Tech commits. That's sad!
 

Ibdancin

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Right. So now the ultimate question is, what type of coach and what type of scheme or “system” do we need to commit to here to neutralize and combat the talent gap. Mike Leach was perfect for us especially as we entered this new era of NIL and TP of college football. Wether it be in the air or on the ground, we absolutely need to think logically and go with someone and something outside the box than can do it with lesser talent and money. We need to think extreme.
Bingo!

A modified AR system
 

BA Dog

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Nov 4, 2021
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So have I. I wanted to hire Paul Johnson way back when. Now more than ever, with the way college football is now, and with who we are in that realm, something that extreme, with a great coach like a Paul Johnson or Mike Leach is eminent.
Google says Paul Johnson is 66. If it weren’t for his age I would be all in.
 

Ibdancin

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I completely get the Coach Leach praise over here...he won some games, was competitive in some losses, and beat OM in his final game. His life is an interesting tale. After a somewhat abysmal start at State he appeared to have the program headed in the right direction. BUT, one can't (or should'nt) fail to notice that Coach Leach is the person primarily responsible for the talent level of this year's team. The talent on the offensive line and overall on the defensive side is below the level State has enjoyed in its recent history and overall team speed seems to have dropped. State's team recruiting rankings for the last three years are similar to that at OM. However, State has not had great success in the the portal. Did your admin and Coach Leach fail to appreciate the significance of the portal in today's game? Or, is there some other cause for the talent deficit? Or, do you guys think the current issues are less about talent and more related to coaching?
Yes. He is responsible for:
-6 x FOUR STAR WRS on this TEAM!
-2 x 4 Star RBS
-2 x 4 Star OLmen
- 2x 4 Star QBs, one that threw for 12K yards in HS. And another one that threw for 11.5K yards in 3 years!

The defense was our current coaches doing. He had control of that!


Our issue is coaching... not player. ZERO reason why we should not be in position to win 9 this year.
 
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Ibdancin

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Blind devotion to a school can backfire on a player. Look at Bo Nix. Harsin had him out there on the field unable to stand up straight at times, behind NO offensive line to speak of.
You see, that was coaching too. Look at what he is doing at Oregon. Look at the other Auburn QB Finley who is now a 70% passer.

We are poorly coached
 

OG Goat Holder

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A truth that doesn't help recruiting, is when they come on a visit and see a half empty stadium.

...and it isn't because "the team sucks". The AZ crowd was poor. The LSU crowd was pitiful before kickoff.

I'm sure when the kids are at school or out in their community.... they hear all this exaggeration gloom too.
Agreed. Our football culture sucks and has since the end of 2018. A lot of people to blame - Mullen for his focus on immediate recruiting which created a gap after 2018, Cohen for hiring Moorhead who wanted to switch offenses, and COVID. It all seemingly hit at once.

Then after all that, Leach dies once we start to semi-gain momentum. It’s like it could only happen to us.

I don’t think that NIL is as pronounced as @Perd Hapley says. But I’m not going to act like it doesn’t play a factor either. I’m not sure where to go with this program right now. I like the idea of a niche running offense, but I acknowledge that the game is called/officiated for the passing game too.

I really have no idea. Good luck Selman. I just hope this isn’t the beginning of another decade of futility like the late 1980s or 2000s. I don’t have that much left in me.
 

Ibdancin

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Agreed. Our football culture sucks and has since the end of 2018. A lot of people to blame - Mullen for his focus on immediate recruiting which created a gap after 2018, Cohen for hiring Moorhead who wanted to switch offenses, and COVID. It all seemingly hit at once.

Then after all that, Leach dies once we start to semi-gain momentum. It’s like it could only happen to us.

There is just no excuses for what ARNETT (nobody but his fault) did during the off season. That 100000000% put us in a bad position. His hire of Barbay is a joke! The guy is teaching a system he spent 1 year in. ONE year in at AP ST. Nope.. not the same as his previous stop.

To this day, nobody wants to even ASK Arnett or Barbay WHY IN THE HELL are we running more 12 personnel than 10. We can't get those type of questions because it exposes the insanity of it.
 

OG Goat Holder

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There is just no excuses for what ARNETT (nobody but his fault) did during the off season. That 100000000% put us in a bad position. His hire of Barbay is a joke! The guy is teaching a system he spent 1 year in. ONE year in at AP ST. Nope.. not the same as his previous stop.

To this day, nobody wants to even ASK Arnett or Barbay WHY IN THE HELL are we running more 12 personnel than 10. We can't get those type of questions because it exposes the insanity of it.
I agree with that. I’ve been very vocal about it on this board.
 

Rupert Jenkins

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At the very least we need an upgrade at DC. And cornerbacks coach. Mcbath or whoever is running that sh^tshow is terrible. They can not cover. Throw the freshmen out there and let them try. Literally could not get any worse. I mean I know some of you are gonna say there is no talent. Okay tell them to go get some but from the looks of it Bump is the only one that can recruit. If we can't do better than one DL croot we are up the creek
 

8dog

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There is just no excuses for what ARNETT (nobody but his fault) did during the off season. That 100000000% put us in a bad position. His hire of Barbay is a joke! The guy is teaching a system he spent 1 year in. ONE year in at AP ST. Nope.. not the same as his previous stop.

To this day, nobody wants to even ASK Arnett or Barbay WHY IN THE HELL are we running more 12 personnel than 10. We can't get those type of questions because it exposes the insanity of it.
Do we really run 12 much outside of short yardage? I think we are entirely 10 and 11. I watched the first half highlights of WMU and I think I saw 12 once in a short yardage situation
 

Ibdancin

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Do we really run 12 much outside of short yardage? I think we are entirely 10 and 11. I watched the first half highlights of WMU and I think I saw 12 once in a short yardage situation
We run it more than 10. Yes sir. We run way more 11. Around 75% of the time. That's with using a true freshman OT at TE. Makes sense right!

Now are we going with the OT converted to TE just for this year is one of the 11 best to be on the field? Goede? You mean he is better than having Whittemore on the field? Name the TE that should be playing over just that player?
 

8dog

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We run it more than 10. Yes sir. We run way more 11. Around 75% of the time. That's with using a true freshman OT at TE. Makes sense right!

Now are we going with the OT converted to TE just for this year is one of the 11 best to be on the field? Goede? You mean he is better than having Whittemore on the field? Name the TE that should be playing over just that player?
I’m just asking how much 12 we run. I don’t think it’s nearly that much. I just glanced at highlights and I never see it outside of short yardage. Again I haven’t combed all the film.
 

Rupert Jenkins

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We don't run the same formations we did the first couple games. They changed it for SC. More WR and more passing
 

Ibdancin

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I’m just asking how much 12 we run. I don’t think it’s nearly that much. I just glanced at highlights and I never see it outside of short yardage. Again I haven’t combed all the film.
In order:

1- 11 personnel... which has the same issue as 12. We do not have the personnel for it.
2- 12 personnel. around 15%
3- 10 Personnel with a WR room that has 6 four star guys. 1 that is tweeting as if he is ready to move on.
 

8dog

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In order:

1- 11 personnel... which has the same issue as 12. We do not have the personnel for it.
2- 12 personnel. around 15%
3- 10 Personnel with a WR room that has 6 four star guys. 1 that is tweeting as if he is ready to move
I think you are just pulling those number from thin air. Watch the most recent game and give me the breakdown
 

dogeater

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Though i have no particular knowledge about your program, as a casual observer and OM fan, I can tell you for most of the last few decades OM folks have respected the tenacity, skill and toughness with which state played defense....you guys have had some top level defenses with many 1st round draft picks and a reputation for not backing down from anyone. So it is a bit disappointing to see this current team flounder a bit, especially on that side of the ball.
Hope ya'll can get it back together. Yes it takes great coachng to sustain that culture you have enjoyed for so long and it takes players. IMHO you guys have got to work the hell out of the portal if your HS recruiting doesn't turn around. A few million $ in the portal can go a very long way--as I mentioned earlier you guys are in the SEC and that alone makes you an attractive destination. Good luck the rest of the year.
 
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