Keep hiring Coordinators....

[Bullldawg78]

Why do we keep hiring Coordinators as head coaches? We need people with head coaching experience manning the ship! Look at our track record for coordinators over the last 25 years versus head coaches! Like leach or not we were having success under him. Why can freaking Indiana figure out that the HEAD coach at James Madison knows how tobe a HEAD coach. Look at them this year. They didn't hire the special teams coach or wife receivers coach at JMU they hired a HEAD coach! Ok I'm done but this just really burns my a$$! And yes I know what Mullen did he is an outlier.

 

[Maroon13]

Supposedly Barry Odom really wanted the job.

I'd like to know how true this is. If he interviewed and if yes, why he wasn't selected.

 

[Thebulldogcountry1]

Being a State fan is feeling more and more like voluntarily paying taxes to another governement entitly. The rich seems to get to make the real decisions, and those in charge are either powerless or just incompetent. We are expected to pay for all of it without any explanation or accountability. We never get any real answers about anything.

I think, at a minimum, we deserve to know why a DC with no experience was paid a million dollars and given a multi-year contract.

 

[HumpDawgy]

Agree 100%. I don't want to see another first time head coach hired again. I would rather go into DII for a head coach to hire than hire another coordinator with no head coaching experience to learn on the job against the SEC. Dan Mullen was the only one I can remember being successful. Maybe you can throw in Tyler, but that was a different game then.

 

[MSUDOG24]

Supposedly Barry Odom really wanted the job.

I'd like to know how true this is. If he interviewed and if yes, why he wasn't selected.

And you know the melt downs would have been fun had we hired him.

 

[Xenomorph]

Supposedly Barry Odom really wanted the job.

I'd like to know how true this is. If he interviewed and if yes, why he wasn't selected.

Dude... I'll have you know Barry Odom has only coached at Missouri and UNLV. Nowhere on his resume is the University of Oklahoma.

**

 

[patdog]

Supposedly Barry Odom really wanted the job.

I'd like to know how true this is. If he interviewed and if yes, why he wasn't selected.

No one else was considered. And of course Barry Odom would have wanted the job. As well as a number of other experienced coaches at G5 or I-AA levels.

Agree 100%. I don't want to see another first time head coach hired again. I would rather go into DII for a head coach to hire than hire another coordinator with no head coaching experience to learn on the job against the SEC. Dan Mullen was the only one I can remember being successful. Maybe you can throw in Tyler, but that was a different game then.

im not against ever hiring a coordinator. Kirby Smart was a coordinator. Dan Mullen was a coordinator. But in the situation we were in, we needed an experienced head coach. Because there was, and still is, a very real risk of our football program becoming a train wreck we can’t recover from for close to a decade.

 

[22yardpunt]

Supposedly Barry Odom really wanted the job.

I'd like to know how true this is. If he interviewed and if yes, why he wasn't selected.

Because this crew hires “their boys.”

 

[The Peeper]

Supposedly Barry Odom really wanted the job.

I'd like to know how true this is. If he interviewed and if yes, why he wasn't selected.

I don't know if he was interested or interviewed but at the time he was 25-25 at Mizzou 13-19 in conference and 0-3 in bowls. But, considering it was at Mizzou maybe not too bad a record.

 

[GloryDawg]

I have a bad feeling that Selmon is only going to hire friends or OU connections.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

I'm not sure head coaching experience is required, but they do need to have experience that shows they are ready to lead an SEC program. Coaches like Mullen and Kirby Snart spent several years as coordinators under successful head coaches before making the move to SEC head coach.

Being an SEC HC is hard, and having HC experience on your resume still does not necessarily prepare you for success. Moorhead had HC experience. Mullen's HC experience did not prepare him for success at Florida.

Felker, Croom, and Arnett were just bad hires. It wasn't just the lack of HC experience; there was nothing on their resume to replace the lack of HC experience. They arguably deserved a shot at leading smaller programs, but nothing indicated they were ready to be SEC HC's.

Moorhead, OTOH, had a great resume. The only thing he lacked was extended D1 experience, which turned out to be important.

 

[Dawgbite]

Ok, I’ll play devils advocate. Sitting head coaches learned their craft in the old college football. That no longer exists. What we have now is uncharted territory. We need someone young, innovative, and adaptable and most head coaches are none of the above therefor We hire coordinators. It’s only a bad hire if it fails. I don’t know if I believe this anymore than some of the other BS posted on here. I just don’t know anymore!

 

[Dawgzilla2]

Imagine where our program would be today if the Giants had not saved us from Joe Judge.

We may have reached our current level of incompetence by 2022...only we might still have Cohen as our AD since hiring Judge might have kept Auburn from wanting him.

 

[johnson86-1]

Why do we keep hiring Coordinators as head coaches? We need people with head coaching experience manning the ship! Look at our track record for coordinators over the last 25 years versus head coaches! Like leach or not we were having success under him. Why can freaking Indiana figure out that the HEAD coach at James Madison knows how tobe a HEAD coach. Look at them this year. They didn't hire the special teams coach or wife receivers coach at JMU they hired a HEAD coach! Ok I'm done but this just really burns my a$$! And yes I know what Mullen did he is an outlier.

Because Joe Moorhead was good?

I'm with you that all else equal I would prefer a G5 head coach to a P4 coordinator. But G5 head coaches that show any amount of promise are snatched up faster than in the past and by better programs. Billy Napier leveraging being a less successful Hudspeth into the Florida job is just surreal and I don't think would have happened 20 years ago. Or if it happened, everybody would have thought the AD was crazy rather than just thinking the AD got worked in negotiation over salary and guarantee.

I think you're going to see more coaches get more time before getting fired (mainly because of wanting to save money for NIL) and you'll probably see some more retreads get better job offers when they were fired in less than 4 years (partly to save money and partly because it's going to take a second before there is a decent stable of coaches at G5 with long enough track records to justify big time jobs).

 

[Podgy]

Supposedly Barry Odom really wanted the job.

I'd like to know how true this is. If he interviewed and if yes, why he wasn't selected.

He's an HBO guy

 

[L4Dawg]

I'm not sure head coaching experience is required, but they do need to have experience that shows they are ready to lead an SEC program. Coaches like Mullen and Kirby Snart spent several years as coordinators under successful head coaches before making the move to SEC head coach.

Being an SEC HC is hard, and having HC experience on your resume still does not necessarily prepare you for success. Moorhead had HC experience. Mullen's HC experience did not prepare him for success at Florida.

Felker, Croom, and Arnett were just bad hires. It wasn't just the lack of HC experience; there was nothing on their resume to replace the lack of HC experience. They arguably deserved a shot at leading smaller programs, but nothing indicated they were ready to be SEC HC's.

Moorhead, OTOH, had a great resume. The only thing he lacked was extended D1 experience, which turned out to be important.

Moorhead had a fantastic resume. You just never know. It's not just about being a good coach. There is that unmeasurable intangible called FIT. Mullen just fit here. Moorhead did not. Mullen didn't fit at Florida.

 

[Maroon13]

he was 25-25 at Mizzou 13-19 in conference and 0-3 in bowls. But, considering it was at Mizzou maybe not too bad a record.

Yeah that was the argument last December. When he was awarded Mountain West coach of the year. Now he is 6-2 this year, total 15-7 at UNLV.

Also he is former DC. Which is what is needed at MSU. If you are a halfway decent coach, You can recruit athletes here and build a defense.

But I digress. We better hope Lebby works out. We can't fire another HC after 1-2 years. Nobody will touch this job if we do

 

[Seinfeld]

No one else was considered. And of course Barry Odom would have wanted the job. As well as a number of other experienced coaches at G5 or I-AA levels.

im not against ever hiring a coordinator. Kirby Smart was a coordinator. Dan Mullen was a coordinator. But in the situation we were in, we needed an experienced head coach. Because there was, and stop is, a very real risk of our football program becoming a train wreck we can’t recover from for close to a decade.

Especially when you consider that during the prior decade, we’d made the following HC hires:

1) Acting HC (Leach) - generally successful 3 year run
2) Coordinator hires (Moorhead & Arnett) - Utter disasters

So of course we decide to hire a coordinator. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Ok, I’ll play devils advocate. Sitting head coaches learned their craft in the old college football. That no longer exists. What we have now is uncharted territory. We need someone young, innovative, and adaptable and most head coaches are none of the above therefor We hire coordinators. It’s only a bad hire if it fails. I don’t know if I believe this anymore than some of the other BS posted on here. I just don’t know anymore!

Fundamental aspects of season preparation and gameday coaching still exists. We aren't getting any of that currently.

 

[patdog]

But I digress. We better hope Lebby works out. We can't fire another HC after 1-2 years. Nobody will touch this job if we do

So how many years of 2-10 does it take before our job becomes attractive to good candidates? We're not firing Lebby this year, and we shouldn't (barring an unthinkable loss to UMass). But next year, he has to show real improvement. There will always be decent candidates for a job in the SEC that pays what we can.

 

[Maroon13]

So how many years of 2-10 does it take before our job becomes attractive to good candidates? We're not firing Lebby this year, and we shouldn't (barring an unthinkable loss to UMass). But next year, he has to show real improvement. There will always be decent candidates for a job in the SEC that pays what we can.

Yeah I think if worst case scenario happens next year, 2-10 and recruiting not looking good, the AD works the back channels with agents to get some feedback on the interest in the job. You make the decision based on if any viable candidate is interested.

 

[aTotal360]

Jesus Christ...

We are hiring the people that tell us "yes". Yall act like we can pull whoever we want.

 

[StateCollege]

There is just no silver bullet. Look back at the 2018 HC hire cycle.

Hired with prior HC experience:

• Scott Frost to Nebraska - Looked like an absolute slam dunk and he failed miserably.
• Jimbo Fisher to TAMU - Was 83-23 at FSU with a national title
• Mullen to Florida - We all know the story here
• Chip Kelly to UCLA - Eventually turned them around in Year 4, but left for an OC job
• Willie Taggart to FSU - Had some decent success of turning WKU and USF around prior, but was a dumpster fire at FSU
• Chad Morris to Arky - Had turned SMU around, but a disaster in Fayetteville.
• Kevin Sumlin to Arizona - Was very average at TAMU, but awful at Arizona
• Herm Edwards to Arizona State - Yeesh
• Sonny Dykes to SMU - Did well at SMU
• Mario Cristobal to Oregon - Had been at FIU before with minimal success, but obviously has figured things out since

No prior HC experience:

• Moorhead - No explanation needed
• Matt Luke - Kind of a unique situation here with the Freeze stuff, but ultimately was meh and fired.
• Josh Heupel to UCF - Obviously worked out pretty well for him
• Jeremy Pruitt to UT - Another disaster
• Billy Napier to ULL - Solid at ULL, obviously not cut out for SEC
• Jonathan Smith to Oregon St - Did great things at OSU before bolting

ETA - Forgot about Moorhead's time at Fordham. So technically had been a HC, just not in major CFB.

 

[HomeBoyDawg]

Supposedly Barry Odom really wanted the job.

I'd like to know how true this is. If he interviewed and if yes, why he wasn't selected.

 

[The Peeper]

The only thing he lacked was extended D1 experience, which turned out to be important.

He lacked the ability to accept constructive criticism or the ability to admit when he was wrong too. He was going to do it his way regardless of what anyone elsethought i.e. hard headed

 

[The Peeper]

Yeah that was the argument last December. When he was awarded Mountain West coach of the year. Now he is 6-2 this year, total 15-7 at UNLV.

Also he is former DC. Which is what is needed at MSU. If you are a halfway decent coach, You can recruit athletes here and build a defense.

But I digress. We better hope Lebby works out. We can't fire another HC after 1-2 years. Nobody will touch this job if we do

If he had been hired here w/ just an overall .500 record and 13-19 in the SEC there would have been a mutiny among supporters. You can't consult the crystal ball to see what they do in the future, you can only go on what they've done in the past and to that point he hadn't gotten it done.

 

[Seinfeld]

But I digress. We better hope Lebby works out. We can't fire another HC after 1-2 years. Nobody will touch this job if we do

You will never convince me that there is a shortage of people willing to take a guaranteed $20M for a shot at coaching the SEC

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Why do we keep hiring Coordinators as head coaches? We need people with head coaching experience manning the ship! Look at our track record for coordinators over the last 25 years versus head coaches! Like leach or not we were having success under him. Why can freaking Indiana figure out that the HEAD coach at James Madison knows how tobe a HEAD coach. Look at them this year. They didn't hire the special teams coach or wife receivers coach at JMU they hired a HEAD coach! Ok I'm done but this just really burns my a$$! And yes I know what Mullen did he is an outlier.

Mullen was fine as a coordinator, Moorhead was trash with HC experience. Leach was a great HC at one time and left us no talent because he stopped recruiting. AU has hired a couple HCs the last couple times and they've struggled. Vandy hired an assistant and let him build the program.
FL is close to firing multiple proven HCs in a row. Imagine if Indiana played our schedule. It would be ugly.

 

[johnson86-1]

Especially when you consider that during the prior decade, we’d made the following HC hires:

1) Acting HC (Leach) - generally successful 3 year run
2) Coordinator hires (Moorhead & Arnett) - Utter disasters

So of course we decide to hire a coordinator. What could possibly go wrong?

It was at a lower level, but Moorhead was a head coach.

Now if it's true that the Furman basically offered athletic scholarships and the other schools in their conference did not, that head coaching experience shouldn't count for anything. If that's true, Moorhead had no business being offered. Failing at UConn and then being successful with at PSU with a generational talent at RB and a good NFL prospect at QB and WR doesn't tell you anything about how somebody can be a head coach at an SEC school period, much less a have-not school.

 

[HumpDawgy]

I want a guy who has been in charge of a successful football program at some point in their careers. I don't think that is asking for too much for an SEC head coaching job.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

There is just no silver bullet. Look back at the 2018 HC hire cycle.

Hired with prior HC experience:

• Scott Frost to Nebraska - Looked like an absolute slam dunk and he failed miserably.
• Jimbo Fisher to TAMU - Was 83-23 at FSU with a national title
• Mullen to Florida - We all know the story here
• Chip Kelly to UCLA - Eventually turned them around in Year 4, but left for an OC job
• Willie Taggart to FSU - Had some decent success of turning WKU and USF around prior, but was a dumpster fire at FSU
• Chad Morris to Arky - Had turned SMU around, but a disaster in Fayetteville.
• Kevin Sumlin to Arizona - Was very average at TAMU, but awful at Arizona
• Herm Edwards to Arizona State - Yeesh
• Sonny Dykes to SMU - Did well at SMU
• Mario Cristobal to Oregon - Had been at FIU before with minimal success, but obviously has figured things out since

No prior HC experience:

• Moorhead - No explanation needed
• Matt Luke - Kind of a unique situation here with the Freeze stuff, but ultimately was meh and fired.
• Josh Heupel to UCF - Obviously worked out pretty well for him
• Jeremy Pruitt to UT - Another disaster
• Billy Napier to ULL - Solid at ULL, obviously not cut out for SEC
• Jonathan Smith to Oregon St - Did great things at OSU before bolting

Thank you for this. I was going to do the same.

 

[mcdawg22]

Jesus Christ...

We are hiring the people that tell us "yes". Yall act like we can pull whoever we want.

 

[Maroon13]

If he had been hired here w/ just an overall .500 record and 13-19 in the SEC there would have been a mutiny among supporters. You can't consult the crystal ball to see what they do in the future, you can only go on what they've done in the past and to that point he hadn't gotten it done

He did not have one losing season at Missouri. Regardless, in 2023 he was 9-3 at UNLV and named Mountain West COY.......a few days after our search.

 

[mcdawg22]

Grading College Football's Head Coach Hires for 2018

College football’s 2017-18 coaching carousel featured 21 changes, including moves at big-time programs like Nebraska, Florida, Texas A&M, Oregon and Florida

athlonsports.com

I don’t think some of you realize what a crapshoot HC hires are. For those that don’t want to look there were 9 coaches on this list that were B or better and all were fired except for Chip Kelly who was probably going to be. Also of note were two c+ or worse Johnathan Smith and Josh Heupel.
If you look at the six most consistent teams in the last 10 years OSU, UGA, and Clemson hired ACs. Bama and Mich hired NFL HC. Oregon hired two HCs one of which failed. And two ACs, one of which has them #1 in the country and the other one failed.
If you want to say well they are blue bloods look at other schools that weren’t consistent. FSU, UF, USC, AU, Tenn, Texas, Oklahoma Miami all have hired HCs and ACs with wildly varying levels of success.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

You combine that with the fact that we are talking about MSU hiring a coordinator after it's already done, I feel like I should hear somebody holler, "Clean up on Aisle 17!"

 

[85Bears]

I want a guy who has been in charge of a successful football program at some point in their careers. I don't think that is asking for too much for an SEC head coaching job.

A guy with HC experience can oversee the entire program, has experience hiring coaches, has connections to bring in decent people, it’s a big advantage over a guy who has never done it. Some coordinators are not cut out to be head coaches even if they are good coordinators.

SEC just isn’t a good place to learn on the job when having to do a rebuild on a budget. You have too many variables there.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

There’s a little thing called fit. You want a coach who has done it at similar programs with similar circumstances. This isn’t hard.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

There’s a little thing called fit. You want a coach who has done it at similar programs with similar circumstances. This isn’t hard.

Even then it's not guaranteed. Truth be told the administrative skill set that it takes to be a head coach in the SEC is turning out to be too much for a lot of candidates who had success out of conference and WOULD have had success in the SEC 10-15 years ago. You have to be a CEO, an administrative head, have to understand social media and marketing, have to be good at evaluating talent, you have to know x's and o's, and at times you have to have enough knowledge of mental health issues to preempt friction inside the team. The requirements of the job have outgrown the ability of a majority of candidates to learn to adapt in that environment.

 

[Indndawg]

Fundamental aspects of season preparation and gameday coaching still exists. We aren't getting any of that currently.

Preach. Preach. Preach. I would not cry if Lenny found another job not associated w/MSU.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

He lacked the ability to accept constructive criticism or the ability to admit when he was wrong too. He was going to do it his way regardless of what anyone elsethought i.e. hard headed

LULZ! I didn't realize hard headedness was a category on coaching resumes.

ETA: I believe having faith in your system and ignoring criticism is a necessary aspect of being a successful head coach. You think Leach was open to constructive criticism? What about Mullen, who kept his country club employed and basically dared anyone to question him.