I simply said he was able to accumulate the most total points while scoring 10% fewer points per game. Never said he didn’t score the most points. You then wrote a book.
LeBron is now the NBA’s all-time leading scorer…
- Thread starter Lawdawg.sixpack
- Start date
Any tournament he played in had massive crowds (who happen to be 95% white) and had huge TV ratings. I mean I get it, there’s haters who were racist and that’s never going to change but there were plenty of people who didn’t care for him for different reasons. I never was a big Tiger fan mostly because he was the top dog and when you watched a tournament on tv it was constant coverage of him and no one else. That’s no fault of his but you begin to dislike someone when they’re rammed down your throat constantly.
I only pulled for him in the Ryder or Presidents Cups. I did the same for Lebron and Kobe in the Olympics.
I never said he shouldn't be. He is a great player for sure, but he hasn't been in the league long enough to be considered better than Russell. Yet, anyway.
The primary reason so many are replying to you about Tiger is because your first post was very much on brand for you. You said “… the hate for Tiger was real. It was strong and very real. Straight up racism fueled a lot of it, and his personality didn't help with the rest that disliked him.” Of course you listed race first and then his personality second somewhat as an after thought. Stir pot. Wait for people to reply. Then show your supposed broad level of understanding by listing all the ways Tiger could be hated and put race much further down your list. It’s so obvious you didn’t mean there weren’t other reasons and how could anyone construe it as you being focused on the boogeyman.**
I agree race played a factor but saying it fueled much of the hate is laughable. Now I expect you to reply with “I didn’t say ‘much of the hate’, I said a lot of the hate.” Then you’ll go on to split hairs with words we won’t read.
He also said I said I hated Lebron and I never did. I just said he wasn't in my Mt. Rushmore of Lakers.
You did not say you hate LeBron. What you did, was reply to a post of mine which was me discussing how I find a lot of the LeBron hate to be absurd and inconsistent.
You started that post with 'for me it isnt about his off the court stuff...' which I took to mean you did hate him, but not for the off the court stuff. I genuinely dont know why you started that post the way you did if you didnt intend to tie it to the comments I had made(which you quoted) about LeBron being hated.
I was joking about Horry and just being absurd with what I read was you tying titles to greatness.
You did simply say that. I simply took that to mean you were trying to discount the accomplishment. I then simply disagreed and simply wrote a book about that disagreement. If you werent trying to discount the accomplishment, my bad. I dont know why else you would have genuinely posted that comment, but my bad on the incorrect guess.
Very well said- "...you begin to dislike someone when they’re rammed down your throat constantly."
Yes I agree that was a big part of the overall hate.
Yeah I will agree with this. I shouldnt have said racism fueled a lot of it. It fueled more than a little, but sure I agree it wasnt a lot of it.
When I posted that I was thinking about the 90s mostly, when yeah its well damn documented that he was met with a ton of resistance because he didnt look like others. Begay at Stanford has talked about this at length even. After 99ish though, it was probably a healthy bit of what DCD mentioned- people largely hated him because they were sick of him being rammed down their throats thru media coverage.
As for me stirring the pot and waiting for people to reply, that was not my intent and really is never my intent. I was giving a high level recap of over 15 years of coverage of the guy and should have balanced my comments more accurately. My apologies.
You mentioned I put race much further down on a subsequent list. I assume you mean the post where I list reasons why I have read or heard people hate on Tiger. That was in no particular order and I posted the race comments where they are because I thought about them after mentioning his dad. Its not because I wanted to slyly devalue them, or whatever nefarious thing you think I am up to here.
Understood.
Some people think I hate on him because I don't list him as 1st or 2nd greatest player ever. That simply isn't true. I just think there are several players that were better. That doesn't equate to "hate" in my book.
To argue with Herrington, I think a point could be made that there were other players that were as great when Jordan played as those Lebron has faced, but Jordan just beat them every time, so they aren’t considered dominant. Had Lebron beaten curry in the finals every time, would Curry be considered dominant? Those Jazz and Knicks teams that Jordan beat were loaded with amazing players that could’ve been considered dominant if not for Jordan.
He’s in the top five greatest players ever. I can’t stand the guy at all but that’s where he is.
Yes I disagree with him on the same point you make. Those Jazz teams were unreal. For the most part he had a cakewalk in the East other than the Knicks and occasionally the Pacers. The rest of the east was garbage most years.
I don't know about cringe (I know the kids say it a lot these days so tbh not sure exactly what it means any more,) but I don't find him especially interesting.
Kinda makes you wonder if the KANG is a bit more, say…. SELFISH…. than the all-time greats?
If they still called "carrying" or "palming" the ball LJ's average ppg would be half of what it is now.
Everyone's avg would be impacted.
If teams rebounded 50+ years ago the way they do now, guys wouldnt have averaged 20+ rebounds a game back then.
Again, there are differences in how the game is played between eras.
Dont drag Lee Trevino. It was fuzzy zoeller that made those comments.
Some of this is really reaching. Hated for military obsession? I think the military training hurt his body and career but who can hate him for it. Narrative around upbrining? I guess this is more race hate because black/asian kids shouldnt be playing golf. Hated because of his dad? Most people dont even know anything about his dad who died almost 20 years ago.
For someone that is and was so hated, he sure does move the needle.
Yeah, he was heavily criticized in articles, by active military who viewed his getting to join in on training as an insult. Thats him being hated.
His upbringing, the way he was pushed and also his celebrity as a teen, has been heavily criticized thru the years. Thats him being hated for those things.
Earl was a lightning rod for controversy and parental criticism. Tiger was criticized for the perception that he was favored over siblings. Tiger has been tied to comments that Earl made, which were criticized. Tiger was expected to justify things Earl said and Tiger defended him, to the point of also being criticized. That is him being hated. As for his dad dying a long time ago...I am clearly referring to before he died. Tiger has been a pro for over a quarter century and was a household name in golf for a handful of years before that. Earl was around for Tiger's first decade as a pro and it was a dominant decade- one that had Tiger on magazine covers all the time, winning constantly, and a focus for fans both on and off the course. Just because Earl has been dead for 16 years doesnt change what happened in the decade prior.
You are referencing things that very few people are even aware of regarding Tiger. Most golf fans probably dont even know. I doubt there are many people that hate him for any of these things.
That’s honest to God the first time I’ve ever heard that and I follow golf.