Make of it what you will... Bama can't cheat anymore

onewoof

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Mar 4, 2008
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  • Michigan caught cheating, coach leaves
  • Bama coach leaves
  • Bama coach is a Belichick protege, who was caught filming practices, etc
  • Bama clearly unaware of Vandy play calls, where Bama just always seems to mysteriously know what plays are called in most games they play

Just seems like it's within the realm of possibility that a coach may have stepped down involuntarily. Or... that team isn't doing "whatever it takes" to win now. Or seeing things go down at Michigan, they aren't willing to take the risk anymore, a risk that would severely damage the bama brand for the last 17 years
 

BoDawg.sixpack

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Feb 5, 2010
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When 18-22 year olds receive monopoly money, the coaching profession takes on a new twist because now there's a new distraction for the players. You have to make them understand they're being paid to win not just paid to play. That's one area where Bama's staff is failing.
 

uptowndawg

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2010
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When 18-22 year olds receive monopoly money, the coaching profession takes on a new twist because now there's a new distraction for the players. You have to make them understand they're being paid to win not just paid to play. That's one area where Bama's staff is failing.
Seeing how hard of a nose dive NIL took into pay for play territory (pay for showing up) I wouldn’t mind if the pendulum swung the other way into more of a pay per win model.
 

hdogg

Active member
Nov 21, 2014
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My conspiracy theory is this :
Texas is paying refs enough (and more) to offset what bama has been paying them for years. As soon as uTex lost their #1 rank, they made sure bama didn't get any breaks. Come at me bro!
 

olblue

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Mar 11, 2018
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You are reading way too much in what happened in Nashville today. If you think Alabama is all of the sudden going to be void of good players, you‘re being naive.
 

Dawgzilla2

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Oct 9, 2022
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My theory is some of you are addicted to conspiracy theories.

With the exception of the first half against UGA, Bama has not looked that great this year. Moving them to #1 was an over reaction.

I hate to beat the TOP drum for the second week in a row - it really is an over rated stat - but Vanderbilt held the ball for over 42 minutes. They ran 75 plays vs. Bama's 46. Those last couple of possessions, it showed.
 
Oct 7, 2022
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My theory is some of you are addicted to conspiracy theories.

With the exception of the first half against UGA, Bama has not looked that great this year. Moving them to #1 was an over reaction.

I hate to beat the TOP drum for the second week in a row - it really is an over rated stat - but Vanderbilt held the ball for over 42 minutes. They ran 75 plays vs. Bama's 46. Those last couple of possessions, it showed.
Deboer is learning why you never want to be the guy to follow “the guy”. My heart bleeds peanut butter for him and his millions.
 

Ranchdawg

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Dec 13, 2012
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Couldn't happen to a better fan base. Satan left because he didn't want to go out losing a few games each season. It would be great if they lose 4 or 5 games this season.
 
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mcdawg22

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Sep 18, 2004
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  • Michigan caught cheating, coach leaves
  • Bama coach leaves
  • Bama coach is a Belichick protege, who was caught filming practices, etc
  • Bama clearly unaware of Vandy play calls, where Bama just always seems to mysteriously know what plays are called in most games they play

Just seems like it's within the realm of possibility that a coach may have stepped down involuntarily. Or... that team isn't doing "whatever it takes" to win now. Or seeing things go down at Michigan, they aren't willing to take the risk anymore, a risk that would severely damage the bama brand for the last 17 years
What drugs are you on and can I have some?
Always Sunny Reaction GIF
 
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OG Goat Holder

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Deboer is learning why you never want to be the guy to follow “the guy”. My heart bleeds peanut butter for him and his millions.
As far as the pride in winning and losing, I agree, that’s always been the play. But those “millions” change the equation. With the buyouts now, the embarrassment of losing is worth the risk.
 

Dawgzilla2

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Oct 9, 2022
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Think about statistics and probability. You cannot win that many games playing fair. Especially when others are cheating too

Similar to the advantages Bryant had as well, ask your Dad about that
You need to learn about statistics and probability before citing them as "evidence".
 
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onewoof

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Mar 4, 2008
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You need to learn about statistics and probability before citing them as "evidence".
Let's just agree that the Patriots and the Tide had runs at similar times doing similar things well. Looks like that chapter has closed. For now.
 

mcdawg22

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Sep 18, 2004
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Think about statistics and probability. You cannot win that many games playing fair. Especially when others are cheating too

Similar to the advantages Bryant had as well, ask your Dad about that
Was John Wooden cheating? Red Auerbach? Joe McCarthy?
 

Pilgrimdawg

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Aug 30, 2018
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Don’t forget that roughly half of the SEC refs are from the State of Alabama. Many of them have Alabama ties and have shown repeatedly over the years that they will protect the tide no matter what. That’s been going on since at least back to 1960 and I don’t think anything has changed. The only way that ever gets fixed is to move the headquarters out of Birmingham and clean house on the referees, which don’t do a good job even when they are not busy protecting Alabama. We all have seen it many times. I myself have seen enough SEC ref screw jobs to write a book going back to the worst case of all in 1961.
 

onewoof

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Mar 4, 2008
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Was John Wooden cheating? Red Auerbach? Joe McCarthy?
Wooden might be the single biggest benefactor of cheating ever. Really got into mentoring and lecturing and believing that he was making them great lol. Like the recent bama coach.

Basically, you have to get elite players to play to their ability. Then take all the credit and the 8 figure paycheck.
 
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Dawgzilla2

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Let's just agree that the Patriots and the Tide had runs at similar times doing similar things well. Looks like that chapter has closed. For now.
Why would I agree to something that is unsubstantiated speculation?

It was well known that Saban had 1 analyst assigned to scout every opponent on the roster. That sucks for the competition, but it wasn't cheating. A coach studying up on 1 team will learn a lot about their tendencies, and maybe even pick up on some of their signals.

DeBoer inherited the same resources, but I'm not sure he has as many analysts on staff. And since he hasn't shown the ability to rehab wayward coaches into productive members of society, he probably doesn't have the same quality of analysts.

Still, this is just 1 game and cannot possibly be viewed as a trend, or a sign that things have materially changed for Bama.

I think they still make the playoffs.
 

Dawgzilla2

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Don’t forget that roughly half of the SEC refs are from the State of Alabama. Many of them have Alabama ties and have shown repeatedly over the years that they will protect the tide no matter what. That’s been going on since at least back to 1960 and I don’t think anything has changed. The only way that ever gets fixed is to move the headquarters out of Birmingham and clean house on the referees, which don’t do a good job even when they are not busy protecting Alabama. We all have seen it many times. I myself have seen enough SEC ref screw jobs to write a book going back to the worst case of all in 1961.
Do you have a cite for your claim that half the Refs are from Alabama. That seems unlikely. And wouldn't moving the SEC office just create a new bias?

The SEC does not allow refs to call games involving a school they attended, a school their spouse or children attended, a school that employs a relative, a school where they have a business relationship, or - if the ref is a former player - a team that employs a refs former coach or teammate (during the Croom era there were a couple of former Bama players who could not officiate MSU games).

Hometown and home state are only considerations for the SEC Championship game.

Refs make bad calls, and it is only human nature to assume there is bias. I believe Hanlon's razor applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

What is a more attractive television product: A league where upsets are always possible, or a league where just 1 or 3 teams win all the time? SEC football is an extremely valuable television commodity, and only a fool would risk losing that money - along with likely jail time - by manipulating the outcomes of games.
 

The Cooterpoot

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Sep 29, 2022
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Deboer ain't Saban and we all knew that when he was hired. Nobody will ever be Saban.
 

OG Goat Holder

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Deboer ain't Saban and we all knew that when he was hired. Nobody will ever be Saban.
This is correct. I know everyone thinks he retired because of the state of the game, and that’s part of it, but the guy is still old. He would have found a way to adapt just like any other time, if he was say, 51 rather than 72 or whatever he is.
 
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Bobby Ricigliano

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Jul 27, 2011
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Don’t forget that roughly half of the SEC refs are from the State of Alabama. Many of them have Alabama ties and have shown repeatedly over the years that they will protect the tide no matter what. That’s been going on since at least back to 1960 and I don’t think anything has changed. The only way that ever gets fixed is to move the headquarters out of Birmingham and clean house on the referees, which don’t do a good job even when they are not busy protecting Alabama. We all have seen it many times. I myself have seen enough SEC ref screw jobs to write a book going back to the worst case of all in 1961.
Tell us more about the 1961 incident.
 
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Pilgrimdawg

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Do you have a cite for your claim that half the Refs are from Alabama. That seems unlikely. And wouldn't moving the SEC office just create a new bias?

The SEC does not allow refs to call games involving a school they attended, a school their spouse or children attended, a school that employs a relative, a school where they have a business relationship, or - if the ref is a former player - a team that employs a refs former coach or teammate (during the Croom era there were a couple of former Bama players who could not officiate MSU games).

Hometown and home state are only considerations for the SEC Championship game.

Refs make bad calls, and it is only human nature to assume there is bias. I believe Hanlon's razor applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

What is a more attractive television product: A league where upsets are always possible, or a league where just 1 or 3 teams win all the time? SEC football is an extremely valuable television commodity, and only a fool would risk losing that money - along with likely jail time - by manipulating the outcomes of games.
I don’t have their birth certificates but I have read from multiple sources over the years that there are approximately 50 total SEC referees and 25 of them are from the State of Alabama. I used to know the names of some of the worst offenders but the older I get the more I can’t remember. One of them was to ref involved in the Calvin Ridley call at Scott Field a few years ago.
 

Baddog11

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Aug 28, 2013
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The ncaa and the sec are probably not even looking into Alabama cheatery BUT

after the Alabama baseball coach was caught calling insider information to proxies inside the casino, I can almost certainly guarantee you that the sports books are watching them very closely.
 
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Baddog11

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They will look into it and any of those moneyline bets on Vandy will be fully investigated for any links to the bama program
 

Pilgrimdawg

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Aug 30, 2018
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Tell us more about the 1961 incident.
If you look it up the score board said that we lost in Tuscaloosa that day 20-19, but that’s not the whole story. The lines on the field were chalk in those day. White lines except for the goal line, which was a bright yellow. I was a kid and our section was right on the goal line and we were sitting really low, probably on about row 5. Anyway with Bama leading 20-19, and less than 2 minutes left in the game we were down on the goal line after a long drive. Our running back went off left tackle right in front of us and clearly plunged into the end zone. After he got up you could clearly see the yellow chalk on his uniform in the area right above his knees. The referees huddled up, had a long discussion, and finally the the head referee picked the ball, put it on the 2 and signaled first down Alabama. It was not 4th down. Our fans, coaches, and players had a fit but they didn’t care. My parents were friends with a family that lived next door to Bear Bryant and we went back to their house after the game. They were good people and apologized profusely to us for what had happened. I was a kid but old enough to know exactly what happened and proceeded to go over to the Bryant’s house and knock on the front door. Mrs. Bryant answered the door and standing there in my Bulldog shirt I asked to speak with her Husband. She said that he was not back home yet but I could come back later and talk to him. Eventually my parents figured out what I was doing, put me in the car kicking and screaming, and we headed for home. A few years later we were in a tight game in Tuscaloosa again and Alabama went for it on 4th down. They didn’t make it but no problem, they gave them a 5th down and they made it. Most games were not on tv in those days and they could get away with almost anything, and they did. There are many, many stories and non of them went in our favor.
 

Baddog11

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Aug 28, 2013
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If you look it up the score board said that we lost in Tuscaloosa that day 20-19, but that’s not the whole story. The lines on the field were chalk in those day. White lines except for the goal line, which was a bright yellow. I was a kid and our section was right on the goal line and we were sitting really low, probably on about row 5. Anyway with Bama leading 20-19, and less than 2 minutes left in the game we were down on the goal line after a long drive. Our running back went off left tackle right in front of us and clearly plunged into the end zone. After he got up you could clearly see the yellow chalk on his uniform in the area right above his knees. The referees huddled up, had a long discussion, and finally the the head referee picked the ball, put it on the 2 and signaled first down Alabama. It was not 4th down. Our fans, coaches, and players had a fit but they didn’t care. My parents were friends with a family that lived next door to Bear Bryant and we went back to their house after the game. They were good people and apologized profusely to us for what had happened. I was a kid but old enough to know exactly what happened and proceeded to go over to the Bryant’s house and knock on the front door. Mrs. Bryant answered the door and standing there in my shirt I asked to speak with her Husband. She said that he was not back home yet but I could come back later and talk to him. Eventually my parents figured out what I was doing, put me in the car kicking and screaming, and we headed for home. A few years later we were in a tight game in Tuscaloosa again and Alabama went for it on 4th down. They didn’t make it but no problem, they gave them a 5th down and they made it. Most games were not on tv in those days and they could get away with almost anything, and they did. There are many, many stories and non of them went in our favor.
These types of old stories don’t just come from Miss State fans either.
 

Maroon Eagle

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Wooden might be the single biggest benefactor of cheating ever. Really got into mentoring and lecturing and believing that he was making them great lol. Like the recent bama coach.

Basically, you have to get elite players to play to their ability. Then take all the credit and the 8 figure paycheck.
Good ol’ Papa Sam Gilbert

 
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Dawgzilla2

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I don’t have their birth certificates but I have read from multiple sources over the years that there are approximately 50 total SEC referees and 25 of them are from the State of Alabama. I used to know the names of some of the worst offenders but the older I get the more I can’t remember. One of them was to ref involved in the Calvin Ridley call at Scott Field a few years ago.
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

The SEC employs way more than 50 football referees. Last year they had 9 full crews of 8 officials, plus alternates. They likely added another full 8 man crew with expansion, but I don't know that for sure. The officials have to work their way up, with most of them having experience at lower divisions and other conferences before coming to the SEC.

They get graded every week, and if they get too many bad marks they will lose their job and have to go back to lower divisions.

And the 20-19 game against Alabama was in 1963.
 

Pilgrimdawg

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Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

The SEC employs way more than 50 football referees. Last year they had 9 full crews of 8 officials, plus alternates. They likely added another full 8 man crew with expansion, but I don't know that for sure. The officials have to work their way up, with most of them having experience at lower divisions and other conferences before coming to the SEC.

They get graded every week, and if they get too many bad marks they will lose their job and have to go back to lower divisions.

And the 20-19 game against Alabama was in 1963.
If it was in 63 then I stand corrected. I thought it was in 61. Not going to go look it up. Regardless, the situation was the same. The year doesn’t really matter since it was over 60 years ago either way. Since you obviously know more about SEC refs than I do, I would like to know if anything happened to some of those guys that manipulated the outcome of certain games. I’m guessing nothing. I thought about the referee that picked up his hat on the Calvin Ridley no call, and I think his name was Skelton. We had a lot of issues with that whole crew and that guy in particular. Also, I don’t remember for sure, but I am thinking he is the one whose Grandfather played quarterback for Bama under Bear Bryant. I did personally see the refs get out of the van at one of our home games a few years ago and not only were two of them wearing Alabama jackets, everyone of them was carrying an Alabama duffle bag. I believe we were playing Kentucky that day, not that it matters. That would seem to be totally inappropriate if you ask me and sends a message that apparently Birmingham doesn’t have a problem with it. We had an SEC ref that lived here ( he couldn’t call State games ) and I used to talk to him when we were picking up kids at school. He was always careful in how he answered officiating questions but I picked up enough from him to know that some of the officials were shall we say Bama enthusiast.
 
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